Mercedes is just not what it used to be
06-07-2018, 01:53 PM
#51
Super Member
That's because of what MB markets itself and charges for these cars. I have MUCH different expectations from a $15k than I do a $150k car.
06-07-2018, 03:46 PM
#52
Senior Member
I will agree that Mercedes quality definitely isn't what it used to be. My first car was a very well-used 240D. Great car, even with the further abuse I dished out at it. I had several Mercedes after that including a 420SEL and 190E-2.3 16v. I then drove Infiniti for 20 years. The Infinitis weren't Mercedes. They were merely "good enough". Carpeting only went as high as your eye could see, systems were flat-out archaic. BUT great value for money and generally reliable. Lots of teething pains (initial quality problems) but the squawk list got smaller and smaller with each visit. My M45 was a better car at 100,000 miles than new. The dealerships were consistently good, if not absolutely amazing. When my Q45's week old battery exploded, they sent out a loaner car and their driver waited for the tow truck. 3 days later my car was delivered to me at my office, completely cleaned up as if nothing had happened.
Contrast this to MB where the dealership experience varies widely, mostly on the lower-end. The first dealership that touched my '15 E350 managed to break an air vent and corrupt the firmware on the car.. along with new scratches every time I took it in. I started using a different dealer and they were good initially, BUT management changed and they went straight down the toilet. They managed to break the defrost vents, damaged 2 steering wheels, damaged the rear window, and got nasty about it when I called them on it. The current dealership I'm working with (3rd one now!) has been good so far.
My '15 E350 was by all means, a lemon. I was told Mercedes was good at after-purchase support. This was not the case. Yes, MB even sent out a Factory Tech who worked on the car for 3 days and replaced just about every control module in the car... EXCEPT the ones I specifically asked him to. BUT this same tech didn't know why certain error messages would be displayed in yellow at times and white in others. His ultimate conclusion to why the car would crank but not start -- I wasn't pressing the brake pedal hard enough. Seriously? Even with my foot to the floor I'd get the same behavior. "Working as designed" is all MBUSA would say. The dealership which sold me the car was of NO help at in regards to getting the car bought back.
My current '18 E300 has already been in the shop 5x since February and currently in discussions with MBUSA to buy it back before I resort to lemon law'ing it at the end of this month. Forms/letters/documentation's already filled out and sitting in the envelopes. Essential parts of the car weren't even installed at the factory.
Even the head mechanic at the local MB dealership has said, "they don't make them like they used to" and went into detail about his frustration with many of the changes, including his frustrations with MBUSA. Some of it is for weight savings to comply with gov't regs...others are pure & simple cost-cutting. One of the other issues is that MBUSA subcontracts out much of the work these days. People from different companies and groups building parts independent of each other. In the old days, MB did most of this in-house.
As far as the G90... it's a great value for money, but there was a ton of cost-cutting. Anything which looks metallic in the cabin is plastic. The manual warns that operating more than 1 power seat at a time may damage the electrical system, etc. I commend them on being able to build such a good car at such a price. Even with the cost-cutting, it's still a good car.
I, like others, wish MB would clean up their act. They have the design & feature set mostly right. Quality is majorly lacking.
In my experience with my 15 E350 -- "The Best or Nothing", I got Nothing. And MB has lost ~10 car sales due to it. I referred multiple people to other makes until MB shows me they can build a car which actually works, with ALL the parts installed.
Contrast this to MB where the dealership experience varies widely, mostly on the lower-end. The first dealership that touched my '15 E350 managed to break an air vent and corrupt the firmware on the car.. along with new scratches every time I took it in. I started using a different dealer and they were good initially, BUT management changed and they went straight down the toilet. They managed to break the defrost vents, damaged 2 steering wheels, damaged the rear window, and got nasty about it when I called them on it. The current dealership I'm working with (3rd one now!) has been good so far.
My '15 E350 was by all means, a lemon. I was told Mercedes was good at after-purchase support. This was not the case. Yes, MB even sent out a Factory Tech who worked on the car for 3 days and replaced just about every control module in the car... EXCEPT the ones I specifically asked him to. BUT this same tech didn't know why certain error messages would be displayed in yellow at times and white in others. His ultimate conclusion to why the car would crank but not start -- I wasn't pressing the brake pedal hard enough. Seriously? Even with my foot to the floor I'd get the same behavior. "Working as designed" is all MBUSA would say. The dealership which sold me the car was of NO help at in regards to getting the car bought back.
My current '18 E300 has already been in the shop 5x since February and currently in discussions with MBUSA to buy it back before I resort to lemon law'ing it at the end of this month. Forms/letters/documentation's already filled out and sitting in the envelopes. Essential parts of the car weren't even installed at the factory.
Even the head mechanic at the local MB dealership has said, "they don't make them like they used to" and went into detail about his frustration with many of the changes, including his frustrations with MBUSA. Some of it is for weight savings to comply with gov't regs...others are pure & simple cost-cutting. One of the other issues is that MBUSA subcontracts out much of the work these days. People from different companies and groups building parts independent of each other. In the old days, MB did most of this in-house.
As far as the G90... it's a great value for money, but there was a ton of cost-cutting. Anything which looks metallic in the cabin is plastic. The manual warns that operating more than 1 power seat at a time may damage the electrical system, etc. I commend them on being able to build such a good car at such a price. Even with the cost-cutting, it's still a good car.
I, like others, wish MB would clean up their act. They have the design & feature set mostly right. Quality is majorly lacking.
In my experience with my 15 E350 -- "The Best or Nothing", I got Nothing. And MB has lost ~10 car sales due to it. I referred multiple people to other makes until MB shows me they can build a car which actually works, with ALL the parts installed.
06-07-2018, 06:12 PM
#53
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300199092.html
How can they retain so many customers if they aren't satisfied? Doesn't make sense.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 06-07-2018 at 06:15 PM.
06-07-2018, 07:08 PM
#54
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2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
CR is full of caca. The last time I checked Mercedes' brand loyalty and customer retention was higher than most of those on the list.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300199092.html
How can they retain so many customers if they aren't satisfied? Doesn't make sense.
M
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300199092.html
How can they retain so many customers if they aren't satisfied? Doesn't make sense.
M
06-08-2018, 06:32 PM
#55
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
M
06-08-2018, 08:24 PM
#56
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2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
And Streamliner claims his 560 is the quietest car he has ever owned ( I do believe he has owned - test driven many ). As for Nav and media interface, my 2015 does a great job on both fronts. Would I like CarPlay, probably. Would I use it often, probably not. What I have is beyond sufficient and does a great job. If you want a German car that appears to have really cool electronics, check out the latest generation Panamera. If not, go Japanese.
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06-09-2018, 11:42 AM
#57
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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I think that what most W222 owners would like, is if certain things about the car were just a bit better or more custom. My list, in order of importance, would be as follows:
1. A larger trunk, with a full size, matching, alloy spare housed under the trunk floor, with a jack & tool kit. At least having it as an option.
2. The ability to special order a car, based on the way the cars are available in Germany, without being bound to the option packages and “standard” equipment that MBUSA saddles us with. For example, being able to order the car without the Panorama Roof or with any of the wheels M.B. offers in Germany.
3. Many more interior and exterior color options, along with the ability to special order “to sample” colors as Porsche offers.
I would not expect any of this to come cheap, but it should all be readily available to order and not be some mystery that the customer must search out, or something that would cause more than an additional 8 to 10 week delay in delivery time. I would certainly accept having to put down a non-refundable deposit, etc.
1. A larger trunk, with a full size, matching, alloy spare housed under the trunk floor, with a jack & tool kit. At least having it as an option.
2. The ability to special order a car, based on the way the cars are available in Germany, without being bound to the option packages and “standard” equipment that MBUSA saddles us with. For example, being able to order the car without the Panorama Roof or with any of the wheels M.B. offers in Germany.
3. Many more interior and exterior color options, along with the ability to special order “to sample” colors as Porsche offers.
I would not expect any of this to come cheap, but it should all be readily available to order and not be some mystery that the customer must search out, or something that would cause more than an additional 8 to 10 week delay in delivery time. I would certainly accept having to put down a non-refundable deposit, etc.
06-09-2018, 12:21 PM
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
For everyone that wants to pick the stitch colors in the seats there are 10 people that could care less about custom ordering a car. I happen to be one of those people, I like the packages as they typically contain most of what I want. I do agree on the spare though, that is a stupid move to not have one. I am also the guy that buys mine 2-3 years old for half the price so I may be biased the other way. I suspect that the vast majority of these cars are leased new, so the beancounters have to think about residual value and a pink S560 with blue trim and no sunroof will have very low value once the original renter is done with the car as an example.
06-09-2018, 12:24 PM
#59
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Though I love my 2017 SL450 I have been sitting on cash for two years to add a S Class Sedan to my garage but am completely put off by the fact that across the line the exteriors of all Mercedes look so similiar, the exterior paint colors are so boring, and the same old interior color choices put me to sleep. I guess I will wait for the 2020 to see if anything changes. The German attitude that “you will like what we offer because we know best” just does not loosen up my wallet! 
06-09-2018, 01:39 PM
#60
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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
For everyone that wants to pick the stitch colors in the seats there are 10 people that could care less about custom ordering a car. I happen to be one of those people, I like the packages as they typically contain most of what I want. I do agree on the spare though, that is a stupid move to not have one. I am also the guy that buys mine 2-3 years old for half the price so I may be biased the other way. I suspect that the vast majority of these cars are leased new, so the beancounters have to think about residual value and a pink S560 with blue trim and no sunroof will have very low value once the original renter is done with the car as an example.
06-09-2018, 10:29 PM
#61
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Different folks have different wants, needs, desires and priorities. I love brand new cars. I know it costs me way more to have my car the first three years of its life than the following years, but I don’t care, it’s what I like and it gives me pleasure. I’m not suggesting that the current way MBUSA markets the cars be scrapped, I am merely suggesting that for the folks willing to pay the price and wait for their car to be built, the options should exist. Somewhere between an S560 and a Rolls-Royce Ghost, there should be something available from MB that gives the more particular of MB customers a way for us to give the company more of our money, without switching brands. An S560 built the way I want it, for maybe $180K would be of great interest to me and would be nice for MB’s bottom line as well. As far as crazy colors go, they could designate all “color to sample” cars for outright sale only.
After pointing out to detail guys all the buggers smeared under the seats, used tampons stuck to the carpet and bouquet of smells of countless farts and cigarettes or joints smoked in,
I swore to myself then, to never buy a used car again if I ever got in a position of being able to.
06-10-2018, 05:09 PM
#62
Senior Member
I used to be in MB sales between 1983-1989, obviously dealt with countless MB trade ins in various shapes and forms.
After pointing out to detail guys all the buggers smeared under the seats, used tampons stuck to the carpet and bouquet of smells of countless farts and cigarettes or joints smoked in,
I swore to myself then, to never buy a used car again if I ever got in a position of being able to.
After pointing out to detail guys all the buggers smeared under the seats, used tampons stuck to the carpet and bouquet of smells of countless farts and cigarettes or joints smoked in,
I swore to myself then, to never buy a used car again if I ever got in a position of being able to.
06-11-2018, 10:14 AM
#64
Senior Member
Or a testament to the previous owners who had respect for their vehicles and the dealerships responsibility to bring the vehicle to CPO specs. Most of my CPO vehicles came with new tires and brakes and a fresh servicing.
06-11-2018, 11:18 AM
#65
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
My point was you saw the final result, unless you have seen the car when it arrived to dealer, you have no idea how clean or not it was.
In used car sales, detailing is the most important department, I did that for a living and I'm only sharing my 6 year experience in this business.
06-11-2018, 01:15 PM
#66
Senior Member
Could be.
My point was you saw the final result, unless you have seen the car when it arrived to dealer, you have no idea how clean or not it was.
In used car sales, detailing is the most important department, I did that for a living and I'm only sharing my 6 year experience in this business.
My point was you saw the final result, unless you have seen the car when it arrived to dealer, you have no idea how clean or not it was.
In used car sales, detailing is the most important department, I did that for a living and I'm only sharing my 6 year experience in this business.
06-11-2018, 02:49 PM
#67
My year old BMW 750 was stolen Saturday night. Test drove the 560 today. Very quiet and smooth, but probably will get the 750 again
Last edited by Rockland; 06-12-2018 at 08:01 AM.
06-12-2018, 10:58 AM
#68
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MB’s
I used to be in MB sales between 1983-1989, obviously dealt with countless MB trade ins in various shapes and forms.
After pointing out to detail guys all the buggers smeared under the seats, used tampons stuck to the carpet and bouquet of smells of countless farts and cigarettes or joints smoked in,
I swore to myself then, to never buy a used car again if I ever got in a position of being able to.
After pointing out to detail guys all the buggers smeared under the seats, used tampons stuck to the carpet and bouquet of smells of countless farts and cigarettes or joints smoked in,
I swore to myself then, to never buy a used car again if I ever got in a position of being able to.
06-12-2018, 10:59 AM
#69
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Could be.
My point was you saw the final result, unless you have seen the car when it arrived to dealer, you have no idea how clean or not it was.
In used car sales, detailing is the most important department, I did that for a living and I'm only sharing my 6 year experience in this business.
My point was you saw the final result, unless you have seen the car when it arrived to dealer, you have no idea how clean or not it was.
In used car sales, detailing is the most important department, I did that for a living and I'm only sharing my 6 year experience in this business.
06-13-2018, 09:27 PM
#70
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
What in the hell used cars were you buying? and from what buy here pay here lot? lol. Every MB I ever bought was CPO. 2 Porsches CPO. 1 Ferrari. Dozens Dodge vans for my business, Infiniti Q45 tons of GM cars a viper rt/10. I honestly can say I have never had these issues lol.
Yes, there is a tremendous difference in condition of cars traded in when they come in vs what they are when we put them in used car showroom ready to sell
.
06-16-2018, 02:43 AM
#71
Junior Member
I think that what most W222 owners would like, is if certain things about the car were just a bit better or more custom. My list, in order of importance, would be as follows:
1. A larger trunk, with a full size, matching, alloy spare housed under the trunk floor, with a jack & tool kit. At least having it as an option.
2. The ability to special order a car, based on the way the cars are available in Germany, without being bound to the option packages and “standard” equipment that MBUSA saddles us with. For example, being able to order the car without the Panorama Roof or with any of the wheels M.B. offers in Germany.
3. Many more interior and exterior color options, along with the ability to special order “to sample” colors as Porsche offers.
I would not expect any of this to come cheap, but it should all be readily available to order and not be some mystery that the customer must search out, or something that would cause more than an additional 8 to 10 week delay in delivery time. I would certainly accept having to put down a non-refundable deposit, etc.
1. A larger trunk, with a full size, matching, alloy spare housed under the trunk floor, with a jack & tool kit. At least having it as an option.
2. The ability to special order a car, based on the way the cars are available in Germany, without being bound to the option packages and “standard” equipment that MBUSA saddles us with. For example, being able to order the car without the Panorama Roof or with any of the wheels M.B. offers in Germany.
3. Many more interior and exterior color options, along with the ability to special order “to sample” colors as Porsche offers.
I would not expect any of this to come cheap, but it should all be readily available to order and not be some mystery that the customer must search out, or something that would cause more than an additional 8 to 10 week delay in delivery time. I would certainly accept having to put down a non-refundable deposit, etc.
I've had my 2018 S 560 for 11 days now, and have to say it is the quietest and most comfortable car I have ever driven -- it's even more tranquil inside than my dearly departed 2015 S 550 Coupe. Vastly superior to any Audi or Lexus I have driven. I thought I was settling for my second choice leather choice -- the Nut Brown/Black Exclusive Nappa -- to go with the Lunar Blue exterior, but it turns out I absolutely love that color. Goes surprisingly well with the dark blue exterior. Really has to be seen to be appreciated.
06-17-2018, 12:38 AM
#72
Fully agree. Some of the option packages are just absurd. To get the Exclusive Nappa Leather on my 2018 S 560, I had to get either power outboard rear seats or the warmth & comfort package (I live in the desert, so I certainly didn't need the latter!). That's just plain gouging. I was interested in the new Deep Sea Blue interior option -- until I learned that I had to get $10,000 of options I did not want or need on top of the $6,500 cost of that interior. That's ridiculous. Wheel options are pathetic.
I've had my 2018 S 560 for 11 days now, and have to say it is the quietest and most comfortable car I have ever driven -- it's even more tranquil inside than my dearly departed 2015 S 550 Coupe. Vastly superior to any Audi or Lexus I have driven. I thought I was settling for my second choice leather choice -- the Nut Brown/Black Exclusive Nappa -- to go with the Lunar Blue exterior, but it turns out I absolutely love that color. Goes surprisingly well with the dark blue exterior. Really has to be seen to be appreciated.
I've had my 2018 S 560 for 11 days now, and have to say it is the quietest and most comfortable car I have ever driven -- it's even more tranquil inside than my dearly departed 2015 S 550 Coupe. Vastly superior to any Audi or Lexus I have driven. I thought I was settling for my second choice leather choice -- the Nut Brown/Black Exclusive Nappa -- to go with the Lunar Blue exterior, but it turns out I absolutely love that color. Goes surprisingly well with the dark blue exterior. Really has to be seen to be appreciated.
06-17-2018, 11:05 AM
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have the Anthracite Grey/Blue and it is probably one of my favorite colors on this car. Looks black at night, Dark Grey on a cloudy day and a really trick blue in the sunshine. Very cool color. I did have Lunar Blue Metallic on my last S and it was also very nice. Get lots of complements on both of them.
06-17-2018, 11:19 AM
#74
Member
While having my S63 serviced yesterday, they wanted me to test drive a 2018 S560. I was very impressed. It was as quiet as a church mouse. I didn't hear any outside noise of any kind and the car had zero rattles and creeky sounds like my car has. Then, after I cranked it up and started out on the highway, .......LOL. Just kidding! It was as I said, VERY QUIET AND COMFORTABLE.
06-17-2018, 11:25 AM
#75
Member
Fully agree. Some of the option packages are just absurd. To get the Exclusive Nappa Leather on my 2018 S 560, I had to get either power outboard rear seats or the warmth & comfort package (I live in the desert, so I certainly didn't need the latter!). That's just plain gouging. I was interested in the new Deep Sea Blue interior option -- until I learned that I had to get $10,000 of options I did not want or need on top of the $6,500 cost of that interior. That's ridiculous. Wheel options are pathetic.
I've had my 2018 S 560 for 11 days now, and have to say it is the quietest and most comfortable car I have ever driven -- it's even more tranquil inside than my dearly departed 2015 S 550 Coupe. Vastly superior to any Audi or Lexus I have driven. I thought I was settling for my second choice leather choice -- the Nut Brown/Black Exclusive Nappa -- to go with the Lunar Blue exterior, but it turns out I absolutely love that color. Goes surprisingly well with the dark blue exterior. Really has to be seen to be appreciated.
I've had my 2018 S 560 for 11 days now, and have to say it is the quietest and most comfortable car I have ever driven -- it's even more tranquil inside than my dearly departed 2015 S 550 Coupe. Vastly superior to any Audi or Lexus I have driven. I thought I was settling for my second choice leather choice -- the Nut Brown/Black Exclusive Nappa -- to go with the Lunar Blue exterior, but it turns out I absolutely love that color. Goes surprisingly well with the dark blue exterior. Really has to be seen to be appreciated.
