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I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that don't mean a lot to me. Audi is now my brand of quality. After driving a Genesis G90 for almost a year, I realize that true evaluations of service, quality, refinement, after -the-sale attention, and material craftsmanship mean more than brand royalty. It is hard to face this reality, but Audi is the king of quality in the German world. Genesis is the king of price/quality. The Audi A8 is a better car than the current S class. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! . Genesis G90 (which I own now) even trumps that!!! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
I was walking the Mercedes lot the other day, and all the brands look the same, they have just enough changes to make you think they are advanced and it became boring to shop. I remember when all you had was about 3 models. A big S class, a 240D, or an impossible to own Pullman. I wish Mercedes had stayed exclusive like Rolls Royce is today and that if you had a Mercedes , you were something special. Now , it's no different than owning a Toyota.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
Originally Posted by MBS63AMG
I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that mean a lot to me. Audi is now my brand of quality. After driving a Genesis G90 for almost a year, I realize that true evaluations of service, quality, refinement, after -the-sale attention, and material craftsmanship mean more than brand royalty. It is hard to face this reality, but Audi is the king of quality in the German world. Genesis is the king of price/quality. The Audi A8 is a better car than the current S class. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! . Genesis G90 (which I own now) even trumps that!!! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
Well, you won’t get any argument about the G90 from me, as I feel it is a truly magnificent car, especially if you consider price—but even if you don’t! There are several things about the G90 that I like better than in my new S560. If Genesis gets a more sophisticated suspension, massage seats and does some impressive crash tests, that could be my next car. I test drove an A8 before I got my 2015 S550 and it just didn’t seem as refined as the MB. However, I am all about ride and comfort, while, with an S63, you must be more about performance. Anyway, I look forward to test driving the new A8 when it comes out, as I am always looking for something better. Please don’t forget about us—come back and tell us about your new ride. Best of luck to you!
Well, you won’t get any argument about the G90 from me, as I feel it is a truly magnificent car, especially if you consider price—but even if you don’t! There are several things about the G90 that I like better than in my new S560. If Genesis gets a more sophisticated suspension, massage seats and does some impressive crash tests, that could be my next car. I test drove an A8 before I got my 2015 S550 and it just didn’t seem as refined as the MB. However, I am all about ride and comfort, while, with an S63, you must be more about performance. Anyway, I look forward to test driving the new A8 when it comes out, as I am always looking for something better. Please don’t forget about us—come back and tell us about your new ride. Best of luck to you!
I'm not leaving the forum. Maybe I will come back to Mercedes, but they seem to be lacking in structural and finish refinements . The W221 was fantastic!!!!! I owned a 2007 S600 and I will never forget it. Best car ever!! It was awesome. No squeaks, no interior rattles or clacking sounds, but my 2017 is unbelievable in interior racket and noise. I've had to identify and remove numerous noises in my W222 in my own way. I also need a brake job ($4000) after only 36,000 miles!!!!! I looked at the rotors and they look great, but the stealership wants $4500 for rotors and pads. This is ludicrous. My previous Audi and BMW went 80,000 miles without any major work! Basically only wiper blades and oil changes.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by MBS63AMG
I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that don't mean a lot to me. Audi is now my brand of quality. After driving a Genesis G90 for almost a year, I realize that true evaluations of service, quality, refinement, after -the-sale attention, and material craftsmanship mean more than brand royalty. It is hard to face this reality, but Audi is the king of quality in the German world. Genesis is the king of price/quality. The Audi A8 is a better car than the current S class. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! . Genesis G90 (which I own now) even trumps that!!! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
I was walking the Mercedes lot the other day, and all the brands look the same, they have just enough changes to make you think they are advanced and it became boring to shop. I remember when all you had was about 3 models. A big S class, a 240D, or an impossible to own Pullman. I wish Mercedes had stayed exclusive like Rolls Royce is today and that if you had a Mercedes , you were something special. Now , it's no different than owning a Toyota.
Just FYI, last year, when I expressed on this thread some interest in the next A8, a fellow that owned a 2017 Q7 was pretty cautionary about Audi:
"We also have a new loaded 2017 Q7 in the household (waited a year for this thing)...we unfortunately have found Audi does not stand behind their products like MB does, this may be due to the emissions scandal costing billions, but the consumer should not be made to suffer because of it. This may be our first and last Audi." -RJC in this post
I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that don't mean a lot to me. Audi is now my brand of quality. After driving a Genesis G90 for almost a year, I realize that true evaluations of service, quality, refinement, after -the-sale attention, and material craftsmanship mean more than brand royalty. It is hard to face this reality, but Audi is the king of quality in the German world. Genesis is the king of price/quality. The Audi A8 is a better car than the current S class. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! . Genesis G90 (which I own now) even trumps that!!! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
I was walking the Mercedes lot the other day, and all the brands look the same, they have just enough changes to make you think they are advanced and it became boring to shop. I remember when all you had was about 3 models. A big S class, a 240D, or an impossible to own Pullman. I wish Mercedes had stayed exclusive like Rolls Royce is today and that if you had a Mercedes , you were something special. Now , it's no different than owning a Toyota.
Ever since I climbed into my father's year old Mercedes 180 in 1961 Mercedes represented the definition of quality. What you say above holds true in spades for the current A4 vs C Class. The new A4 is a vastly superior car to drive. My current and last E class while nice car's don't begin to provide the same sense of a integrity as my 1989 190E 2.6 5 spd. When I owned my last E Class it occurred to me that when you bought a Mercedes previously you were paying for something that was built to last but now it seems like the primary objective is to provide Mercedes with post sale ongoing cash flow. I had a 1998 A4 that I got rid of last year which didn't have a spec of rust on it. The S class's produced 2 years later had rusting doors in 5 years time.
I guess I’ll be the voice of dessent. I have read your posts over time and the S63 seemed to have been a poor choice for you. It really seems that another S600 or a Maybach would have been a better choice.
Litterally half the people I know personally regret getting the S63 because it really isn’t a smooth silent and fast sedan they thought they would get. Instead it was a harsher suspension with more noise and a less than ideal, harsh shifting transmission.
As to the brand, it isn’t going down or building less quality. There are different criteria in play these days and few people would be willing to pay for a Mercedes of old.
We had a 1994 w140 S500. That car was about a $100k then. I believe very few would be willing to pay $170k for a standard S-class which would be the rough equivalent adjusted for inflation.
MB is required to build cheaper with more options and much better fuel efficiency.
Personally I have no nostalgia and find the W222 the best S-class build to date.
In regards to Audi, they are very well build cars and on par with MB quality but not better in any way. The current/old A8 to me is boredom on wheels and some features are annoying but very safe and very competent. The new A8 will fit the same profile. Some features are better,some are worst. But reliability will be tested given all the new tech in the car.
The upcoming Audi A8 has a full touchscreen system which is garnering a lot of negative feedback in reviews I've seen. I used to like touchscreens in the early 2000's, but I think their time has come and mostly gone. It's just too much hassle and located too low in the dash for safety and convenience. Fingerprints and dirt are a constant issue and they don't always react as you expect. So far, I'm enjoying the new S560 system while I get used to it and while the Audi may look nifty, I think it's problematic. As far as ride and reliability, I can 't comment as I've never owned one.
While I have not sat in an A8 recently, I recall when I looked at the brand last, it was chock full of plastic and just looked cheap and gimmicky. I will probably look at all brands on my next car but for the next 3 years or so I will continue to enjoy my W222.
2016 E63 AMG-S, 2007 FERRARI 430, 2001 JEEP WRANGLER 60TH ANNI. EDITION SOLD 2011 E550 4matic
Originally Posted by MBS63AMG
I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that don't mean a lot to me. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
I was walking the Mercedes lot the other day, and all the brands look the same, they have just enough changes to make you think they are advanced and it became boring to shop. I remember when all you had was about 3 models. I wish Mercedes had stayed exclusive like Rolls Royce is today and that if you had a Mercedes , you were something special. Now , it's no different than owning a Toyota.
Agree that's why I chose to order my w212 MY2016 E63S before the new one with nerd herd gadgets and a pussified look came out the w213 doesdoesn't sound like the w212, not as aggressive looking very soft look and it's a c63 until you get close to it, pathetic. The w212 will be my last MB. They have watered down the brand.
W223 S580, Range Rover Supercharged LWB, Audi A8L, BMW 750i, Porsche 911 Carrera S (997)
I have both D4 Audi A8L 3.0 and a new 18 S560. There is no true comparison. The S-class drives, feels and performs truly like a luxury sedan. However, with that said, I find myself driving the Audi more often throughout the week because sometimes I fee like the Merc is too much car and wouldn't want to beat it up daily driving (if that makes any sense). The Audi has a nice sports feels too it with the turbo kick and fantastic steering, but it's more akin to what a BMW used to be known for (sport>luxury sedan). Our other car, a new BMW 750i is great off the line but thats pretty much it. Drives like a Town Car (which is ok, in some respects)- electric steering feel is terrible, suspension is much too soft even in sport mode, and the material quality + fit/finish is not up to par for the price.
I'm leaving the MB fold as Audi quality has stolen my heart. What for over 50 years has meant to me as high quality , Mercedes has dropped the ball on providing quality build for extended features that don't mean a lot to me. Audi is now my brand of quality. After driving a Genesis G90 for almost a year, I realize that true evaluations of service, quality, refinement, after -the-sale attention, and material craftsmanship mean more than brand royalty. It is hard to face this reality, but Audi is the king of quality in the German world. Genesis is the king of price/quality. The Audi A8 is a better car than the current S class. Quieter interior and adequate infotainment systems while still providing the bank-vault tightness of the Mercedes of the 90's ! . Genesis G90 (which I own now) even trumps that!!! Mercedes has cheapend themselves and I can no longer chase their products and prices. Be real with yourself.
I was walking the Mercedes lot the other day, and all the brands look the same, they have just enough changes to make you think they are advanced and it became boring to shop. I remember when all you had was about 3 models. A big S class, a 240D, or an impossible to own Pullman. I wish Mercedes had stayed exclusive like Rolls Royce is today and that if you had a Mercedes , you were something special. Now , it's no different than owning a Toyota.
You're saying a G90 is a better car than the S-Class and the A8? A S-Class is no different from owning a Toyota? Are we supposed to take this seriously?
The brand was diminished with the introduction of the CLA.
Yes, the new A-8 will be a nice car and will should be the gold standard of luxury saloons.
You mean in your perception, because in the real way you measure such things it hasn't. When the day comes when they can't sell higher end cars or sell them in better numbers than the competition, then you can actually say the brand has been tarnished. I think the current MRA platform cars, all FWD, are crap. Thing is though they aren't related to the real Mercedes models like the true AMGs and the S, GLS, AMG GT, Maybachs etc. That is why the brand hasn't suffered commercially from having those cheap POS FWD cars as starters. You have to remember that Mercedes builds some of everything. A Mercedes itself hasn't been exclusive since the 1998 ML (another POS) debuted, but certain models are and that is how they survived such misteps.
The A8 is nice for sure and being new it will lead the tech race for a while (2020 new S arrives), and it's is nice car if you can stand all touch screens and the FWD Buick looks and character of driving it.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 05-24-2018 at 06:39 PM.
My current daily is a 2016 S8 Plus, put over 30k mile on it in last 2 years which is a new record for me as I have never before owned a car for more then a year or 20k miles.
My last S63 was special order 2011, loaded to the hilt and even though it was a handful in Winter, it was supremely comfortable performer.
The Audi cost $155k and I paid full price, since it was again an early order and my car was one of the first in Chicago, no discounts were available then.
It's a fabulous daily driver, handles better and fits me better then 2017 S63 I usually drive in LA (long weekend every month) and I feel will be hard to replace with something I would equally like.
Having said that, S Class is without any doubt on a higher level of luxury altogether, feels more substantial, solid and is definitely more comfortable then any A8 of the current generation.
I bought it (and will be raped brutally come the trade in time) because it just felt right, with handling and performance unbeatable by anything at that time (I was lucky to get a weekend test drive of a new S8 Plus in Poland, long before they arrived to US).
In my opinion however, SClass is still the King of luxury sedans (discounting the Rolls and Bentleys because of their relatively small volume and different price level).
Everyone has an opinion.
To each his own.
I looked VERY CAREFULLY and obsessively for many months before choosing my 2018 S63 over the Audi A8, the BMW M760i, the BMW B7, etc.
They are ALL nice cars, and beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Just because someone prefers the A8 over the S63 or the M760i over this or that... who cares?
Each one of us can be happy and happier with any of these cars. It doesn't make one inherently better than the other. Just because one of us has had SO MANY issues with quality control with this car or that car, so what? Any car can have rattles, expensive rotor/brake repair issues, over another one here.
You can substitute the name of the brand and say this model sucked or that model sucked or this model was the most comfortable by far or that model was. It's totally subjective.
Let's just love all these cars for what they are and respect the fact that we can all choose different cars and each one can seem better than the other to us. They're not, it's just us. I am not a fan at all of Audi interiors, I don't even like the rings log of theirs, so I'd never buy one. Others LOVE this look...
So... in the end, they are all amazing vehicles in a way.
I love all cars pretty much. Even the 79 Toyota Tercel, the Toyota Yaris, the Chiron, the 2008 Acura RL, the Chrysler 300 I rented once for a week out west and it performed flawlessly, the Kia Soul I rented once and found it to be so much fun, etc.
Everyone has an opinion.
To each his own.
I looked VERY CAREFULLY and obsessively for many months before choosing my 2018 S63 over the Audi A8, the BMW M760i, the BMW B7, etc.
They are ALL nice cars, and beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Just because someone prefers the A8 over the S63 or the M760i over this or that... who cares?
Each one of us can be happy and happier with any of these cars. It doesn't make one inherently better than the other. Just because one of us has had SO MANY issues with quality control with this car or that car, so what? Any car can have rattles, expensive rotor/brake repair issues, over another one here.
You can substitute the name of the brand and say this model sucked or that model sucked or this model was the most comfortable by far or that model was. It's totally subjective.
Let's just love all these cars for what they are and respect the fact that we can all choose different cars and each one can seem better than the other to us. They're not, it's just us. I am not a fan at all of Audi interiors, I don't even like the rings log of theirs, so I'd never buy one. Others LOVE this look...
So... in the end, they are all amazing vehicles in a way.
I love all cars pretty much. Even the 79 Toyota Tercel, the Toyota Yaris, the Chiron, the 2008 Acura RL, the Chrysler 300 I rented once for a week out west and it performed flawlessly, the Kia Soul I rented once and found it to be so much fun, etc.
Cheers,
Steve
PS - I'm currently partial to this baby below
I have put about 10k miles on various S63s I rented in the last 3 years (current model), there is a very significant difference between 2018 and 2017 model, IMO.
Current 2018 S63 is a superior car by a large margin to anything else in that category (M760, B7 or S8).
I plan to replace my S8 Plus with either S63 or most likely GT63S.
2018 C63s Estate, 2017 gla 45 [Sold] 2017 smart 44 brabus sport [for the Mrs]
I think it is all too easy to generalise and this is not criticism directed towards the OP but i'm just throwing an alternative view out there.
For the purpose of being a limosine, the s class probably still just about clinging to the benchmark status over the A8 or 7 series. I cant speak for how merc performs from the driver's perspective, but from a passenger's perspective, it is hard for me to see the A8 doing a better job than the aging S class. From a driver's perspective it looks like audi might be more fulfilling now. Audi with this gen of vehicle is probably going to do very well, though may not manage to outsell the current gen S class, but it may outsell the 7 series. A proper facelift of the s class will come out in a couple of years and if i were an analyst, i would expect the s class to continue to lose market share over the next 2 years at the expense of vehicles such as the A8 , oddly in this category - the porsche panamera, and in the US the Cadi CT6 and the Genesis G90 but I fully expect the S class to retain its title as the best limousine in 2020 once the next gen is released. It hasnt lost its crown currently either wiht the minor facelift.
In any case, the new A class is so far ahead of the A3 in terms of tech that i could make the exact same argument about audi being behind the times vs merc just like the OP mentions with the Limo segment. In summary it just depends on when a model of vehicle is refreshed/facelifted, I cant see how audi is any better than merc or vice versa. The GLC and Q5 are completely on par with eachother. Nothing audi does in that segment sets it apart. The GLC is better to drive, the Q is more comfortable. I would argue that in this instance it may be suitable to let the best indicator is to let the people vote with their wallets and they just about voted in Merc's favour, with BMW in second place and audi in third.
In terms of vehicles i'm interested in, i cant see the RS6 being better than an E63. I cant really see the RS4 being better than a C63. The RS3 will struggle to be better than the new gen A45 given how far ahead the new A class is compared to the Audi A3. So it seems like both manufacturers are doing really well but merc is doing better in terms of global sales.
I think it is all too easy to generalise and this is not criticism directed towards the OP but i'm just throwing an alternative view out there.
For the purpose of being a limosine, the s class probably still just about clinging to the benchmark status over the A8 or 7 series. I cant speak for how merc performs from the driver's perspective, but from a passenger's perspective, it is hard for me to see the A8 doing a better job than the aging S class. From a driver's perspective it looks like audi might be more fulfilling now. Audi with this gen of vehicle is probably going to do very well, though may not manage to outsell the current gen S class, but it may outsell the 7 series. A proper facelift of the s class will come out in a couple of years and if i were an analyst, i would expect the s class to continue to lose market share over the next 2 years at the expense of vehicles such as the A8 , oddly in this category - the porsche panamera, and in the US the Cadi CT6 and the Genesis G90 but I fully expect the S class to retain its title as the best limousine in 2020 once the next gen is released. It hasnt lost its crown currently either wiht the minor facelift.
In any case, the new A class is so far ahead of the A3 in terms of tech that i could make the exact same argument about audi being behind the times vs merc just like the OP mentions with the Limo segment. In summary it just depends on when a model of vehicle is refreshed/facelifted, I cant see how audi is any better than merc or vice versa. The GLC and Q5 are completely on par with eachother. Nothing audi does in that segment sets it apart. The GLC is better to drive, the Q is more comfortable. I would argue that in this instance it may be suitable to let the best indicator is to let the people vote with their wallets and they just about voted in Merc's favour, with BMW in second place and audi in third.
In terms of vehicles i'm interested in, i cant see the RS6 being better than an E63. I cant really see the RS4 being better than a C63. The RS3 will struggle to be better than the new gen A45 given how far ahead the new A class is compared to the Audi A3. So it seems like both manufacturers are doing really well but merc is doing better in terms of global sales.
Good analysis. In the end, isn't this all personal preference? Seriously, how can it not be? They're all great cars and different tastes, different people pic the different cars and we all think our car is nicer than the other brand. No one car/brand is inherently that much or that little better or worse than another. They're all a lot better than the cars I drove growing up where the brakes didn't really stop the cars that well and there was no ABS or AWD (on sedans and sports cars) or any of the other goodies we have today. We're living in a great time ... for cars in general.
If we all went to the same restaurant we would probably all have different impressions. We are all different. What one considers good the other may not agree, regardless of what it is. Cars are no different.
For me, my '15 S550V4 checks most of the boxes I need in a luxury sedan and I am very happy with it. Is there a better one out there? probably, but sometimes the enemy of good is better
I'm not leaving the forum. Maybe I will come back to Mercedes, but they seem to be lacking in structural and finish refinements . The W221 was fantastic!!!!! I owned a 2007 S600 and I will never forget it. Best car ever!! It was awesome. No squeaks, no interior rattles or clacking sounds, but my 2017 is unbelievable in interior racket and noise. I've had to identify and remove numerous noises in my W222 in my own way. I also need a brake job ($4000) after only 36,000 miles!!!!! I looked at the rotors and they look great, but the stealership wants $4500 for rotors and pads. This is ludicrous. My previous Audi and BMW went 80,000 miles without any major work! Basically only wiper blades and oil changes.
I love the w221. Love the bulky look and the the more square profile like RR, a tank.
Corvette C8 997S, Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Reserve BMW 750 S560 Coupe
I do agree we all have different needs and expectations for our cars. After 466 (467 will arrive in the next few months) I have pretty much had everything, S class's 7 series, Audi's, Panamera, and my idea of a luxury car does not have a 600hp. My S class is in storage now (along with the other winter cars), and it is sports car time, and when I do have a need to have the S Class come out I get to truly enjoy why I own one. It is not fast, or loud, nor does it draw any attention. It is quiet rides (my car does not have run flats) great and I just feel relaxed driving it. That is what luxury car is to me, and the S Class is perfect for that purpose. Sorry Audi lovers I have tried to like those cars (had a few0, but I never thought that they were really at that good, totally numb steering, and the interiors that everyone brags about do not seem that good to me.
Well, I have a $136k S560 that I hate driving, after owning more than a dozen great enjoyable MB cars over the years. MB truly does not care that I’m miserable with this noisy 560. “Can not verify customer complaint”. They think I have nothing better to do than complain about this car? Really? After 30 years of no complaints?
Their solution? Diamond Tier status gets you a $10k discount on your next new MB purchase. (Sorry about the issues you think you have with your current car).
News alert: there won’t be a next new MB purchase from this former customer.
I’m hoping the next Audi S8 Plus will close the gap with the what was once special about about the S Class experience.
OK, maybe I have a lemon. But worse, much worse is the awful way MB has dealt with the first real problem I’ve had in 30 years of brand loyalty.
05-23-2018, 09:18 PM
