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VIN#JA396661 Car has about 6K miles. Engine check light on. Engine vibrating. More than 45 days in service department (4th try to fix).
They have switched Coils fm 1 to 3, 2 to 4, etc.. Then have replace all Coils. Last time in shop replaced all the Injectors.
Dealer sales guys tell me that 2018 S63 has engine problems. They had 2 plus my car in service as of today.
MBUSA service at 800 367-6372. Is incredibly bad. They will not correspond by emails. Constant phone tag. Designated agent never picks up so I leave a vmessage, then I miss their call back (sometime 2 days).
I continue sending email to keep history of what was said.
And pls be aware they record phone calls. Understand that these people on the phones are not authorized to make any decisions but am surprised at lack of follow up (Slow return calls - like days).
Bottom line. I have requested Buy Back. Am in Illinois and my lawyer advises car is now considered a lemon.
So I expect they will buy it back but a very bad experience so far.
Great ride when engine is running correctly.
All that said above. Am going to get a 2019 S63.
Compared to Porsche Panamera Turbo, BMW 7, Audi A8 (Fm Youtube as none in Chicago yet) this is the best ride for me.
This is the first year of the 4.0tt engine that replaces the 5.5tt M157 engine. If you look at the W213 AMG E63s forum, there are allot of lemon or buyback.
It is limited, but it stopped me from getting the W213 E63s ED1. I’m sure they will have fixed all of the major issues when MY19 comes out.
Aside from buyback, you might be able to get a decent discount on the 2019. Sorry your going through this, because other than that, it’s an awesome luxury sports sedan.
VIN#JA396661 Car has about 6K miles. Engine check light on. Engine vibrating. More than 45 days in service department (4th try to fix).
They have switched Coils fm 1 to 3, 2 to 4, etc.. Then have replace all Coils. Last time in shop replaced all the Injectors.
Dealer sales guys tell me that 2018 S63 has engine problems. They had 2 plus my car in service as of today.
MBUSA service at 800 367-6372. Is incredibly bad. They will not correspond by emails. Constant phone tag. Designated agent never picks up so I leave a vmessage, then I miss their call back (sometime 2 days).
I continue sending email to keep history of what was said.
And pls be aware they record phone calls. Understand that these people on the phones are not authorized to make any decisions but am surprised at lack of follow up (Slow return calls - like days).
Bottom line. I have requested Buy Back. Am in Illinois and my lawyer advises car is now considered a lemon.
So I expect they will buy it back but a very bad experience so far.
Great ride when engine is running correctly.
All that said above. Am going to get a 2019 S63.
Compared to Porsche Panamera Turbo, BMW 7, Audi A8 (Fm Youtube as none in Chicago yet) this is the best ride for me.
There are a couple with issues like this, and every one I've had that I escalated to engineering, they don't really know what to tell us. I believe it's a software issue, I had one very similar, couldn't get any actual issue found, swapped coils, replaced injectors, etc. Still felt a very slight misfire at times on up to 4 cylinders. As of now, the engineering dept wants to collect as much info as possible, but doesn't really have a way to help us it seems. I believe it's a software issue.
I'd have to disagree. I've had 4 cars with the M157. All were flawless, sounded great, and took a beating. This 4.0L is a pile of crap. Also, why Mercedes isn't using this engine in race. The hot-V setup isn't working, BMW has had their share of problems as well. I think they've got it right in the new M5 with heat management etc.
I'd have to disagree. I've had 4 cars with the M157. All were flawless, sounded great, and took a beating. This 4.0L is a pile of crap. Also, why Mercedes isn't using this engine in race. The hot-V setup isn't working, BMW has had their share of problems as well. I think they've got it right in the new M5 with heat management etc.
Any ideas why the hot-V setup isn't working? My understanding is that the twin turbo engine in the M256 as an example is relatively flawless (Traditional setup) of course. Just looking to learn more here.
This is the first year of the 4.0tt engine that replaces the 5.5tt M157 engine. If you look at the W213 AMG E63s forum, there are allot of lemon or buyback.
It is limited, but it stopped me from getting the W213 E63s ED1. I’m sure they will have fixed all of the major issues when MY19 comes out.
Aside from buyback, you might be able to get a decent discount on the 2019. Sorry your going through this, because other than that, it’s an awesome luxury sports sedan.
Wouldn't call 2-3 cars a lot of cars but that issue seems to be an annoying one. The lack of answers is the biggest issue.
I'd have to disagree. I've had 4 cars with the M157. All were flawless, sounded great, and took a beating. This 4.0L is a pile of crap. Also, why Mercedes isn't using this engine in race. The hot-V setup isn't working, BMW has had their share of problems as well. I think they've got it right in the new M5 with heat management etc.
Too much conjecture IMO. The 4.0L engines are extremely solid. After all, every 560 model has essentially the same engine as all M176/177/178 are AMG developed engines. Non AMG engines just happen to be build my MB instead of AMG but with plenty of AMG parts.
AMG couldn't solve MCT, despite 10yrs of trying, all while increasing tq vs a clrly fragile, inept box
Sounds like AMG can't figure out this crap new motor; doubt it's just software issues; if it were s/w, nrly all cars would be affected
65 motor (in its slightly iterated versions over past 10+yrs) has been periodically lemony for repeat buyers; and AMG has never been able to smoothen out its 5yo 7-sp autobox or sharpen its throttle response to rival latest 991TTS PDK/throttle response in urban driving use
Truth is, DAI knows the warranty claims cost data; they've had models over the yrs (esp early '00s) that were essentially losses vs warranty/lemon costs
Suspect we've returned to that era
DAI/AMG needs to fire the clown at top and hire competent drivetrain engineers
24mo lease on a new, loaded 991TTS is ~35% cheaper than vs new, loaded 65
And remember that lemon laws provide a refund on cost of car but never repay opportunity cost of one's lost time solving a lemon or sub-lemon, problematic car
Efficiency of Net is that smart consumers can figure this stuff out for free from quick scan and place own bets w/advantage of others' dubious choices&outcomes vs well-known issues/risks
There are allot more than 2-3 cars with these kind of issues on the w213 and W222 AMG forum my friend.
I don’t think so. You were referring to buybacks/lemons and I think there were 2 or 3.
The issue is that dealers hold on to these cars for weeks while doing some random component swaps that fix nothing and are waiting for MB to provide some conclusive info.
Not good for customers and MB needs to be smarter of how to handle this. It may appear that this is software related.
AMG couldn't solve MCT, despite 10yrs of trying, all while increasing tq vs a clrly fragile, inept box
Sounds like AMG can't figure out this crap new motor; doubt it's just software issues; if it were s/w, nrly all cars would be affected
65 motor (in its slightly iterated versions over past 10+yrs) has been periodically lemony for repeat buyers; and AMG has never been able to smoothen out its 5yo 7-sp autobox or sharpen its throttle response to rival latest 991TTS PDK/throttle response in urban driving use
Truth is, DAI knows the warranty claims cost data; they've had models over the yrs (esp early '00s) that were essentially losses vs warranty/lemon costs
Suspect we've returned to that era
DAI/AMG needs to fire the clown at top and hire competent drivetrain engineers
24mo lease on a new, loaded 991TTS is ~35% cheaper than vs new, loaded 65
And remember that lemon laws provide a refund on cost of car but never repay opportunity cost of one's lost time solving a lemon or sub-lemon, problematic car
Efficiency of Net is that smart consumers can figure this stuff out for free from quick scan and place own bets w/advantage of others' dubious choices&outcomes vs well-known issues/risks
I am frankly puzzled by your usual comments.
The 65 uses a solid but ancient engine, coupled to an equally ancient slush box. MB has been putting zero resources into this dead-ended engine for the last 5 or so years and killed the project to make it AWD. Since V12's are considered dinosaurs, no mainstream, non-exotic manufacturer is ever going to look at them again.
The V12's also had to use a slush box due to its high torque, why compare it to a PDK? PDK couldn't handle the MB engine if its life depended on it...
That said, I agree on the MCT but the latest 9 speed version is the best one of them.
I don’t think so. You were referring to buybacks/lemons and I think there were 2 or 3.
The issue is that dealers hold on to these cars for weeks while doing some random component swaps that fix nothing and are waiting for MB to provide some conclusive info.
Not good for customers and MB needs to be smarter of how to handle this. It may appear that this is software related.
Yes, I was actually referring to the overall 4.0tt engine having issues that MB didn’t have a fix for. Not necessary talking about buyback/lemon, but I understand this is a new engine/transmission for the new AMG model year of the S63 and E63s.
The early GTS in which this engine was launched had many similar issues. Also, how are the 4.0L AMG and regular engines different? Other than turbos, no one can answer this. The main issue I see with the hot-V is going to be heat and how it affects the engine long term. My guess are the problems on the AMG stem from running higher boost, software, and fuel quality. 91 vs. 93 octane in other states.
The early GTS in which this engine was launched had many similar issues. Also, how are the 4.0L AMG and regular engines different? Other than turbos, no one can answer this. The main issue I see with the hot-V is going to be heat and how it affects the engine long term. My guess are the problems on the AMG stem from running higher boost, software, and fuel quality. 91 vs. 93 octane in other states.
The engine was used the first time in the GTS. Less powerful, with a dry sump and coupled with a dual clutch tranny the early models were primarily having issues with the new car itself (driveshaft, suspension, other early model issues). I do believe there were some software issues.
Unlike the BMW, the engine has no heat-soak whatsoever and has proven itself in many race conditions. More so than the prior V8 ever has. We have the non AMG version of that in our SL and love it.
FYI.
Have accepted the offer from Stericycle (3rd party company that handles recalls and buybacks) as follows.
Dealer buddy says it is the best offer they will do.
Have not talked to lawyer.
After much consideration (Panerama, Bentley, Jag, BMW) have ordered another S63.
Was a great chance to drive another car (Had lemon since April) but believe S63 is best choice for a old guy that still like performance.
__________________________________
Good Morning,
Please see the adjusted calculation below and advise if you would like me to request your funds. Our next funding request will be tomorrow morning.
Per MBUSA, “I believe they were going to reimburse but it never happened and then customer wished to move forward with repurchase. Please do not deduct, thank you.” Stericycle has been authorized by Mercedes-Benz USA ("MBUSA") to present their offer of settlement with respect to the repurchase of your vehicle. Please review MBUSA's offer and let us know if you have any questions. If you do not have any questions and will be accepting MBUSA's offer, please confirm your acceptance and we will advise MBUSA of your acceptance and request funding through MBUSA. Total Received at Lease Signing (Including First Lease Payment of $3,533) $3,533.00 7 Additional Payments of $3,533 $24,731.00 *Less Mileage Deduction -$11,893.78 **Less IL Sales Tax -$10,092.24
Total Amount to be Paid to Customer by MBUSA
$6,277.98 Total Amount to be Paid to Lessor by MBUSA $166,826.57 Total Amount of Repurchase $173,105.55 *KY mileage deduction based on 7,174 current miles less 13 miles at delivery X agreed upon value $166,091.02 / 100,000 miles = $11,893.78. **IL sales tax must be refunded by the state. You will be provided with documents to submit.
Maybe related to vibration issues from previous TT setups.
If you look at earlier threads, there is a likelihood Mercedes has inherent issues with the TT setup when ONE turbo (or its waste gate) does not match the other's performance. The setup is not sequential boost and twin turbo cannot be synchronized, but one could match their performance by managing the waste gates differently to allow such system to operate smoothly. The stronger turbo has to be limited to track the weaker turbo, if not, due to boost difference this creates a resonance that gets exacerbated by long intake plumbing.
It is my view that Mercedes relies on matching turbos in manufacturing and calibrating the waste gates, but in my humble opinion this is not enough to ensure proper operation over the lifetime of the vehicle. BMW had issues but to my understanding they used a single turbo (hot or reverse setup in the middle of the V) and they should not suffer the same consequence if their intake and exhaust plumbing are matched length.
Another thing is that in race applications the turbos are placed further away from the head, which allows for less unbalanced pulsing.
Single turbo can exhibit issues but not like the TT non-sequential...
08-30-2018, 06:34 PM
