Bye-Bye V12
10-10-2018, 10:25 PM
#26
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
This is all about nothing. Loved our V12TT but the engine was a dinosaur a long time ago and the writing was on the wall for many years. When MB axed the 4matic for the W222 facelift it was time stamped.
MB invested in a few engine updates 5-7 years ago but that was to deal with some mandatory fixes. There isn't enough usage to justify making a modern V12 and jump emission hurdles for MB.
BMW's V12 only exist because of Rolls Royce and there wouldn't have been a G12 760 otherwise...
MB invested in a few engine updates 5-7 years ago but that was to deal with some mandatory fixes. There isn't enough usage to justify making a modern V12 and jump emission hurdles for MB.
BMW's V12 only exist because of Rolls Royce and there wouldn't have been a G12 760 otherwise...
10-10-2018, 11:45 PM
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2007 S 600 / '06 911 Porsche C4S cab
After seven years including extended warranty, the thought of repairs was scary so I sold my 07. S600.
Price dropped to 20% of its original price with only 60,000 miles.
I doubt that these will be a collectors item of increasing value ...
Price dropped to 20% of its original price with only 60,000 miles.
I doubt that these will be a collectors item of increasing value ...
10-11-2018, 12:17 AM
#29
10-11-2018, 05:29 AM
#30
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2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
for daily driving I don’t mind a hybrid or EV. For a weekend toy no thanks. Honestly even the quickest EV’s I have driven are overall boring and the 0-60 novilty wore off very fast. Unless someone gave me a Rimac or NIo that would be the only way to get me to have a EV as a toy. Other then that I need some sight and sound. You would not watch a action packed film on mute would you?
...I believe that with the Jag,the driver can set volume only, but MB if it wanted could offer a menu of selectable choices, or different "soundtracks" for how the EV sounds...normal/pretty silent, various V8s, various V12s, etc. With the optional 3D sound system (e.g., a subwoofer), it might even sound pretty good. Knowing MB, they might even charge you for each "soundtrack".
Last edited by syswei; 10-11-2018 at 05:41 AM.
10-11-2018, 07:43 AM
#31
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MB could offer an engine sound option on EVs if it wanted. The new Jaguar EV for example uses the audio system to make the car sound like a cross between a real car and a something out of science fiction:
https://soundcloud.com/timstevens/ja...-dynamic-audio
...I believe that with the Jag,the driver can set volume only, but MB if it wanted could offer a menu of selectable choices, or different "soundtracks" for how the EV sounds...normal/pretty silent, various V8s, various V12s, etc. With the optional 3D sound system (e.g., a subwoofer), it might even sound pretty good. Knowing MB, they might even charge you for each "soundtrack".
https://soundcloud.com/timstevens/ja...-dynamic-audio
...I believe that with the Jag,the driver can set volume only, but MB if it wanted could offer a menu of selectable choices, or different "soundtracks" for how the EV sounds...normal/pretty silent, various V8s, various V12s, etc. With the optional 3D sound system (e.g., a subwoofer), it might even sound pretty good. Knowing MB, they might even charge you for each "soundtrack".
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Germancar1 (10-11-2018)
10-11-2018, 12:47 PM
#34
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The SL450 already has a sound generator in the trunk floor that plays an exhaust tone on startup to make it sound more like a v8. Strictly for outside effect, not though the audio system, it's a separate speaker in a housing that exits under the rear of the car. Sadly this is enough for 99% of the people who buy these cars.
10-11-2018, 01:05 PM
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The SL450 already has a sound generator in the trunk floor that plays an exhaust tone on startup to make it sound more like a v8. Strictly for outside effect, not though the audio system, it's a separate speaker in a housing that exits under the rear of the car. Sadly this is enough for 99% of the people who buy these cars.
10-11-2018, 05:09 PM
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Ya I was aware of that. It is beyond silly to me. Why trade the real for the fake? And the fake exhaust tips drive me mad! Not a big deal for my wifes ML350. But a 100k SL? or AMG! What next? I guess I should trade in my used older Rolex for a new fake style one too while we are at it.
Particularly sports, performance and hyper cars. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren; not one has actual exhaust tips either. So if a $3M car can have it, a lowly $100k SL should be OK as well
10-11-2018, 09:13 PM
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I understand and agree with your dislike of the sound generator but your argument for the exhaust tips makes little sense. Exhaust tips have become part of the exterior design aspect of a car and these days have little to do with the actual exhaust itself. Sign of the times; not a question of brand, the type or value of the car. People are bored with typical exhaust designs I assume as virtually every manufacturer does it.
Particularly sports, performance and hyper cars. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren; not one has actual exhaust tips either. So if a $3M car can have it, a lowly $100k SL should be OK as well
Particularly sports, performance and hyper cars. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren; not one has actual exhaust tips either. So if a $3M car can have it, a lowly $100k SL should be OK as well
10-12-2018, 02:13 AM
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wolfman with all due respect I think you are missing my point when I mention the exhaust tips. I was not just talking about MB but manufacturers in general like you said including the high end exotics. I was basically saying how I liked when the cars of old shown the exhaust. Example look at the old W211 E55 AMG. Then look at the new E AMG’s. All I was saying is that I wish they still had the aggressive look of the real exhaust as where today you have the pipe hidden away and fake tip encorporated into body/bumper.
Remembering our old SL55, the tips were just decorative end pieces as they are today (oval chrome tips welded or screwed onto ugly metal pipes). Wether it’s attached or an inch away it’s the same to me.
At least the new ones stay a bit cleaner
That said, I am not a huge fan of the single black trapezoid exhaust bricks on our E63s. Quad tips look better...
Last edited by Wolfman; 10-12-2018 at 03:06 PM.
10-12-2018, 11:37 AM
#39
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The SL450 already has a sound generator in the trunk floor that plays an exhaust tone on startup to make it sound more like a v8. Strictly for outside effect, not though the audio system, it's a separate speaker in a housing that exits under the rear of the car. Sadly this is enough for 99% of the people who buy these cars.
If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll try to get more info. Some of you may hate that idea, but I've heard multiple cars with these, and it sounds really really good, classy and sexy. Just something I thought I'd mention that many don't know about that exists.
10-12-2018, 05:18 PM
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2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
Ya I was aware of that. It is beyond silly to me. Why trade the real for the fake? And the fake exhaust tips drive me mad! Not a big deal for my wifes ML350. But a 100k SL? or AMG! What next? I guess I should trade in my used older Rolex for a new fake style one too while we are at it.
10-12-2018, 09:07 PM
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
MB could offer an engine sound option on EVs if it wanted. The new Jaguar EV for example uses the audio system to make the car sound like a cross between a real car and a something out of science fiction:
https://soundcloud.com/timstevens/ja...-dynamic-audio
...I believe that with the Jag,the driver can set volume only, but MB if it wanted could offer a menu of selectable choices, or different "soundtracks" for how the EV sounds...normal/pretty silent, various V8s, various V12s, etc. With the optional 3D sound system (e.g., a subwoofer), it might even sound pretty good. Knowing MB, they might even charge you for each "soundtrack".
https://soundcloud.com/timstevens/ja...-dynamic-audio
...I believe that with the Jag,the driver can set volume only, but MB if it wanted could offer a menu of selectable choices, or different "soundtracks" for how the EV sounds...normal/pretty silent, various V8s, various V12s, etc. With the optional 3D sound system (e.g., a subwoofer), it might even sound pretty good. Knowing MB, they might even charge you for each "soundtrack".
This is the direction we are going in, fake sound, fake cars (electric appliances), fake news, etc.
What is next?
Virtual sex?
Come to think of it, it's already here.....
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C280 Sport (10-15-2018)
10-15-2018, 09:29 PM
#43
It is a lot less expensive than using balanced motors or otherwise preventing the sound from being created in the first place.
Automobiles are experimenting with mufflers using the same principle.
Whereas I love the sound of a well balanced and tuned engine, my wife things automotive sounds would be below 50dBA.
10-16-2018, 12:23 AM
#44
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For at least the last 10 years, appliance manufactures have been putting speakers down where the motor bits go. These speakers emit the opposite sound to the motor and cancel out its noise.
It is a lot less expensive than using balanced motors or otherwise preventing the sound from being created in the first place.
Automobiles are experimenting with mufflers using the same principle.
Whereas I love the sound of a well balanced and tuned engine, my wife things automotive sounds would be below 50dBA.
It is a lot less expensive than using balanced motors or otherwise preventing the sound from being created in the first place.
Automobiles are experimenting with mufflers using the same principle.
Whereas I love the sound of a well balanced and tuned engine, my wife things automotive sounds would be below 50dBA.
10-16-2018, 02:27 PM
#45
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For at least the last 10 years, appliance manufactures have been putting speakers down where the motor bits go. These speakers emit the opposite sound to the motor and cancel out its noise.
It is a lot less expensive than using balanced motors or otherwise preventing the sound from being created in the first place.
Automobiles are experimenting with mufflers using the same principle.
Whereas I love the sound of a well balanced and tuned engine, my wife things automotive sounds would be below 50dBA.
It is a lot less expensive than using balanced motors or otherwise preventing the sound from being created in the first place.
Automobiles are experimenting with mufflers using the same principle.
Whereas I love the sound of a well balanced and tuned engine, my wife things automotive sounds would be below 50dBA.
Until we all have to drive EV's, creating the right sound on ICE engines is an art form. Just like a movie, the soundtrack is essential to the experience and emissions/fuel consumption requirements create new needs to tune the sound output. It's not that automotive engineers want to create these engines. The requirements push for small displacement, high output engines, so the are all boosted. If a speaker can assist to make something appear bigger/better, not great but not terrible either...
10-16-2018, 11:39 PM
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15 s550, 85 iroc z28, 87 Buick Grand National
10-17-2018, 01:16 AM
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Doesnt matter what car or engine it is. No power adder on a v8 will ever ride or produce power as smooth and as quick as a v12. Amg v8 biturbos dont touch base 600 model v12s imo
10-17-2018, 01:45 AM
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10-17-2018, 01:53 AM
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I am not a huge fan of the BMW 7 series but the 760 is likely a better car than the S600 or the S65 in terms of engine/transmission/drivetrain. Newer engine (developed for Rolls Royce), better transmission and AWD. It depends of what people's priorities are...
10-17-2018, 09:04 AM
#50
