Mercedes S-Class vs Audi A8 vs BMW 7 Series review - which is the best? | carwow
10-24-2018, 04:43 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
Great, laugh away, but no need to belittle what matters to me and as I have said more times than I can remember here in this very thread, I am stating my opinions, and not here to tell others to like or, to live with it. Stop attacking me. Who cares? I do.
That said, if it is due to safety and legal requirements, perhaps enlighten stupid ol' me why BMW/Audi/Lexus do not do this?
If it doesn't matter to you, great, but the fact that most of you learned something that you did not exist on your car, means, job done?
I've often enjoyed my time in the many years on MBWorld, because unlike other forums, we're not douches towards each other.
That said, if it is due to safety and legal requirements, perhaps enlighten stupid ol' me why BMW/Audi/Lexus do not do this?
If it doesn't matter to you, great, but the fact that most of you learned something that you did not exist on your car, means, job done?
I've often enjoyed my time in the many years on MBWorld, because unlike other forums, we're not douches towards each other.
You should not take offense. No belittling here! You really need to take a step back dude! By the way, it does matter to me since I have back issue not tied to the car but I just came off of 6 weeks of physical therapy for my back issue. You said you have your opinion and I guess I have my opinion of "who cares?". But you need to not be so angry Super Angry Penguin. Have some fun and lighten up my friend.
10-24-2018, 04:53 PM
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
SuperAngryPenguin,
Here is what I know or found:
Here is what I know or found:
Why do many cars have the steering wheel off center compared to the driver's seat, and tilted away slightly on the door side?
Paul McNamara, MSc in Automotive Engineering Design
Answered Jan 27 2017 · Author has 519 answers and 219k answer views
Neither Jonathan or Douglas are correct, it is not shoddy engineering nor is it to intentionally angle the driver. In design terms, the BEST position is having it aligned with the centre of the seat (and hence the driver) and straight down the length of the car.
However, there are currently certain legal requirements for steering wheels which means there has to be a mechanical link between it and the front wheels so there is steering column and steering rack mounted to the front of the car. Combine this with the need to make the car crash in a controlled manner (within limits) to protect the occupants and that necessitates a certain amount of structure to either side of the engine running from the front bumper and into the passenger cabin firewall and under the floor; add in the amount of space needed to enable the front wheels to turn to steer the vehicle and this pushes the structure even further inboard. Getting the intermediate shaft around the structure then often necessitates angling the steering column inboard to join up to the steering rack as the line between the steering wheel and the steering rack should be as straight as possible to reduce the amount of backlash in the knuckles in the column so that it is not felt by the driver.
However, there are currently certain legal requirements for steering wheels which means there has to be a mechanical link between it and the front wheels so there is steering column and steering rack mounted to the front of the car. Combine this with the need to make the car crash in a controlled manner (within limits) to protect the occupants and that necessitates a certain amount of structure to either side of the engine running from the front bumper and into the passenger cabin firewall and under the floor; add in the amount of space needed to enable the front wheels to turn to steer the vehicle and this pushes the structure even further inboard. Getting the intermediate shaft around the structure then often necessitates angling the steering column inboard to join up to the steering rack as the line between the steering wheel and the steering rack should be as straight as possible to reduce the amount of backlash in the knuckles in the column so that it is not felt by the driver.
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superangrypenguin (10-24-2018)
10-24-2018, 05:09 PM
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thanks. Just copying the link here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-ca...-the-door-side
So according to Paul then, the best position is when it's not offset then? I guess that is what he is saying when he says "having it aligned with the centre of the seat"? It still strikes me as odd that MB does it this way, and none of the other German 3 do. Oh well.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-ca...-the-door-side
So according to Paul then, the best position is when it's not offset then? I guess that is what he is saying when he says "having it aligned with the centre of the seat"? It still strikes me as odd that MB does it this way, and none of the other German 3 do. Oh well.
10-24-2018, 05:29 PM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks. Just copying the link here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-ca...-the-door-side
So according to Paul then, the best position is when it's not offset then? I guess that is what he is saying when he says "having it aligned with the centre of the seat"? It still strikes me as odd that MB does it this way, and none of the other German 3 do. Oh well.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-ca...-the-door-side
So according to Paul then, the best position is when it's not offset then? I guess that is what he is saying when he says "having it aligned with the centre of the seat"? It still strikes me as odd that MB does it this way, and none of the other German 3 do. Oh well.
11-05-2018, 07:52 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
In case anyone cares to read my review of the D5 A8 vs the W222 S class.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
11-05-2018, 08:07 PM
#57
In case anyone cares to read my review of the D5 A8 vs the W222 S class.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
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superangrypenguin (11-05-2018)
11-05-2018, 08:10 PM
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
I read it, I liked it. I usually head to Audizine.com instead, but that is more of a sport oriented site. I know it's my opinion, but I'd be choosing between the S class and 7 series, where here in the US the 7 series is seeing nice discounts. I'd still go with a nice S450 SWB in the end.
In case anyone cares to read my review of the D5 A8 vs the W222 S class.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...d5-a8-2961881/
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superangrypenguin (11-05-2018)
11-05-2018, 08:30 PM
#59
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Thread Starter
I finally looked at the Audi A8 last week, but Its appearance did not excite me. While appearance is subjective, I do find the S Class to be much more luxurious feeling and inviting. I am sure the D5 drives great, however the car I looked at did not have a seat extender for the thighs so I declined a test drive. Do you know if a power seat extender is an option on this car? Mercedes and BMW have power seat options that will extend the seat for long legged individuals like myself.
I will take a re-look once I go back to the dealership for a second drive. I'll add it to my list.
Can't have it all, unfortunately.
11-05-2018, 08:37 PM
#60
My test vehicle was fully specced from a seat perspective. I must admit that I also noticed that that was missing, although I did not actually go and look for that option so I cannot definitely say. The one thing I really like about MB is the seat control location. Audi places it at the bottom of the seat on the side, like in my cars. It's asinine to me. That said, so is a crooked steering wheel (offset) like on the MB
I will take a re-look once I go back to the dealership for a second drive. I'll add it to my list.
Can't have it all, unfortunately.
I will take a re-look once I go back to the dealership for a second drive. I'll add it to my list.
Can't have it all, unfortunately.
11-05-2018, 08:41 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
That said I will say that I much prefer the seat comfort and plushness of the A8 vs the S class. I'm very picky and the S class's seat isn't as comfortable from my mid back to my shoulders vs the A8. Everyone's body is different, and I just want to remind folks that I am not the typical age, nor am I the typical size/weight of the flagship vehicle buyer.So please take this with a massive grain of salt. Case in point I prefer the E class's multi contour seat to the S classes.
11-05-2018, 08:59 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
One last point, and since it's not 100% relevant I'll be brief, The D3 facelift is my favorite A/S8, IT had road presence. D4 and now even more D5, not so much. Both D5 and W222 have really large grilles. Of the two W222, IMHO, exudes more road presence.
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superangrypenguin (11-05-2018)
11-05-2018, 09:54 PM
#63
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Thread Starter
Best case scenario for the S450 specced out to the way I want, and the Audi A8L to the way I want to, excluding ELW for both vehicles, the A8 will be $2000 more than the S class (an inconsequential number that I don't care about). This is inclusive of the massive interest rate differences between the two. (1.9% for the S class with the loyalty discount and 4.9% for the A8).
So it boils down to this.
S class - I don't love it as much, but it will have a better warranty and will be more reliable, and it's slightly cheaper.
That or take a gamble and buy an A8.
Life's funny sometimes.
Excuse me while I have a drink and sign off out of frustration because I hate this conundrum.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; 11-05-2018 at 09:57 PM.
11-05-2018, 10:01 PM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I read it, I liked it. I usually head to Audizine.com instead, but that is more of a sport oriented site. I know it's my opinion, but I'd be choosing between the S class and 7 series, where here in the US the 7 series is seeing nice discounts. I'd still go with a nice S450 SWB in the end.
May I politely ask why you'd still choose the S450?
11-05-2018, 10:33 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sure thing. Being it is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I feel the S class looks a bit better on the exterior. I also feel that when you spend this kind of money, it should "feel special." The D5 is nice, but, for me, it does not have the cache or the look becoming of its cost. The A4 and C class are much closer than the D5 to W222. In the end a lease on either will let you try before you buy. That option excluded, the 222 offers the most bang for the buck when all options are averaged.
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superangrypenguin (11-06-2018)
11-06-2018, 12:45 AM
#66
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Totally agree. I just ran all my numbers too.
Best case scenario for the S450 specced out to the way I want, and the Audi A8L to the way I want to, excluding ELW for both vehicles, the A8 will be $2000 more than the S class (an inconsequential number that I don't care about). This is inclusive of the massive interest rate differences between the two. (1.9% for the S class with the loyalty discount and 4.9% for the A8).
So it boils down to this.
S class - I don't love it as much, but it will have a better warranty and will be more reliable, and it's slightly cheaper.
That or take a gamble and buy an A8.
Life's funny sometimes.
Excuse me while I have a drink and sign off out of frustration because I hate this conundrum.
Best case scenario for the S450 specced out to the way I want, and the Audi A8L to the way I want to, excluding ELW for both vehicles, the A8 will be $2000 more than the S class (an inconsequential number that I don't care about). This is inclusive of the massive interest rate differences between the two. (1.9% for the S class with the loyalty discount and 4.9% for the A8).
So it boils down to this.
S class - I don't love it as much, but it will have a better warranty and will be more reliable, and it's slightly cheaper.
That or take a gamble and buy an A8.
Life's funny sometimes.
Excuse me while I have a drink and sign off out of frustration because I hate this conundrum.
Do not buy either car. Lease one for a 2 year period.
It’s not a significant cost and it mitigates the risk of a less reliable A8 which by the time your are ready for a purchase would have matured the tech and early issues. Or get the Merc until the Audi is ready for prime time.
Given your very specific requirements on the interior over the exterior, the Audi also appears likely to the better choice for you.
Good luck!
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superangrypenguin (11-06-2018)
11-06-2018, 10:47 AM
#67
Member
I actually own all three as part of my nyc limo fleet- 2018 S560, 2017 BMW 750xi (G12), and a 2013 Audi A8L 3.0 (D4).
My observations:
- Mercedes has much better seats, comfort, and overall interior material and finishes. Steering feel is good. Suspension is great but a little too lofty at times (feels like driving a Rolls Royce Ghost, which is good, I guess?). Power is great too. The infotainment lag speed can be very annoying, especially for a car at this price point. Also, as mentioned in other threads, there is more road noise intruding in the cabin in the facelift model.
- BMW has the best transmission out of all three, not jerky at low speeds (unlike the s-class with the 9 speed), and is extremely quick. However, the suspension is much too soft even in sport and it feels like driving an old Town Car. Steering is generally numb and body roll is excessive. I think BMW is trying too hard to mimic the S-class and have lost it's sporty touch on this model. Interior finish is ok and seat comfort is so-so. Technology is lacking especially considering this is the latest model. ACC is terrible as is lane assist when compared to the S-class, it needs constant correction and you cannot let go of the steering wheel for more than a second before the prompt pops up.
- The Audi I have is the older model (D4) and is the only V6 sedan I have in my fleet. The power is fantastic (for a 3.0 v6) and the suspension is incredible. The car always feels planted and there is minimal body roll with a good blend of comfort. I wouldn't say its more comfortable than the Mercedes, but it is still very nice to drive. The interior finish is OK but I do not have any upgraded leather on this car like I do in the BMW and Mercedes. I do not like the styling whatsoever of the new D5. I think it is very bland and generic. The led rear bar light is not attractive either. Interior looks very fussy with all those screens and would be a nightmare for fingerprint OCD drivers. Style wise the interior just looks like an evolution of the outgoing D4 model. Furthermore, the gimmicky vents look silly in my opinion.
.....The Mercedes is the best by far out of the three...out of most cars really.
My observations:
- Mercedes has much better seats, comfort, and overall interior material and finishes. Steering feel is good. Suspension is great but a little too lofty at times (feels like driving a Rolls Royce Ghost, which is good, I guess?). Power is great too. The infotainment lag speed can be very annoying, especially for a car at this price point. Also, as mentioned in other threads, there is more road noise intruding in the cabin in the facelift model.
- BMW has the best transmission out of all three, not jerky at low speeds (unlike the s-class with the 9 speed), and is extremely quick. However, the suspension is much too soft even in sport and it feels like driving an old Town Car. Steering is generally numb and body roll is excessive. I think BMW is trying too hard to mimic the S-class and have lost it's sporty touch on this model. Interior finish is ok and seat comfort is so-so. Technology is lacking especially considering this is the latest model. ACC is terrible as is lane assist when compared to the S-class, it needs constant correction and you cannot let go of the steering wheel for more than a second before the prompt pops up.
- The Audi I have is the older model (D4) and is the only V6 sedan I have in my fleet. The power is fantastic (for a 3.0 v6) and the suspension is incredible. The car always feels planted and there is minimal body roll with a good blend of comfort. I wouldn't say its more comfortable than the Mercedes, but it is still very nice to drive. The interior finish is OK but I do not have any upgraded leather on this car like I do in the BMW and Mercedes. I do not like the styling whatsoever of the new D5. I think it is very bland and generic. The led rear bar light is not attractive either. Interior looks very fussy with all those screens and would be a nightmare for fingerprint OCD drivers. Style wise the interior just looks like an evolution of the outgoing D4 model. Furthermore, the gimmicky vents look silly in my opinion.
.....The Mercedes is the best by far out of the three...out of most cars really.
Last edited by SB_NYC; 11-06-2018 at 10:50 AM.
11-06-2018, 12:57 PM
#68
11-09-2018, 12:51 PM
#69
I test drove the A8L on Tuesday. While I loved the ride and handling, the upgraded B & O stereo was very good as well.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
11-09-2018, 12:58 PM
#70
MBWorld Fanatic!
I test drove the A8L on Tuesday. While I loved the ride and handling, the upgraded B & O stereo was very good as well.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
Honestly, while I'm not a huge fan of the exterior of the w222, still, if my car blew up tomorrow, there is no better car to get than a w222 for a luxo sedan under $150k, Period.
11-09-2018, 03:17 PM
#72
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I test drove the A8L on Tuesday. While I loved the ride and handling, the upgraded B & O stereo was very good as well.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
The motor was a disappointment. I am used to S550 motor so the A8L for a flagship car is way underpowered IMHO. I also do not like the fact the most controls are on 2 touch screens. Simpler the better for me.
Picked up S560 last night. Very happy.
The V8 equivalent is out in 2019.
11-09-2018, 03:23 PM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
That said I don't buy flagships for pure speed, and I am not in the market for a V8 S class. That said I feel that comparing a V8 S class to a V6 A8 since that's all that is in the market right now is unfair.
11-09-2018, 04:13 PM
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have not read anything about the Costs or dealership experiences in your choice for new car?
I do not need answers but I am guessing when comparing you take into account:
Prices?
Insurance Cost?
buy or lease terms equal?
Service Dept charges similar for what is required per Owners manual?
Resale Value the same say after 4-5 years? In case you have to unload cause she is lemon.
Plenty of dealerships around should you need them where you travel?
Dealership service personnel are nice as is waiting room?
Do they provide loaner cars without making it a hassle?
I know above is boring but means something to me when I choose a car.
One reason I avoided Audi as only one dealership with 200 miles search of my house.
I looked @ audi the Local dealership issue was more then enough for me to say no even if I liked it.
For me now with MB I have choice of 3 dealerships all within 60 miles of my house (one East, West and South)
North one is about 2.5 hour drive away.
Also when I travel away from home they have plenty of dealerships to find and service car.
Something about a great dealership & dealership network makes ownership that much nicer...
Good luck with what ever you choose.
I do not need answers but I am guessing when comparing you take into account:
Prices?
Insurance Cost?
buy or lease terms equal?
Service Dept charges similar for what is required per Owners manual?
Resale Value the same say after 4-5 years? In case you have to unload cause she is lemon.
Plenty of dealerships around should you need them where you travel?
Dealership service personnel are nice as is waiting room?
Do they provide loaner cars without making it a hassle?
I know above is boring but means something to me when I choose a car.
One reason I avoided Audi as only one dealership with 200 miles search of my house.
I looked @ audi the Local dealership issue was more then enough for me to say no even if I liked it.
For me now with MB I have choice of 3 dealerships all within 60 miles of my house (one East, West and South)
North one is about 2.5 hour drive away.
Also when I travel away from home they have plenty of dealerships to find and service car.
Something about a great dealership & dealership network makes ownership that much nicer...
Good luck with what ever you choose.
