S560: to upgrade or not to upgrade?
12-09-2018, 11:33 PM
#26
Senior Member
I have been quite outspoken on the W221 vs the W222, but that was back in 2015. I had a 2013 S550 that I absolutely adored, except for the fact that it was black and that a “glass half empty” guy like me can’t deal with a black car, so after a brief stint in a 2014 ML350BT, I ordered a 2015 S550. I had that car 3 years and now have a 2018 S560 that I also ordered. Here are my thoughts, all stated as my opinion:
1. The W221 is way better looking. It has a unique, commanding presence. It is much more stately than the W222. The fact that the W222 has cookie-cutter looks ala the C & E Class cars really hurts the current S. To me, the S Class is the top of the heap and should have a unique look.
2. My current MBC equipped 2018 rides way better than the 2013 or 2015 and with the “Curve” function, it is truly phenomenal.
3. To me, “THE” worst thing about the W222 is the lack of a spare wheel/tire AND the lack of a place to put one, should an owner wish to provide their own.
4. I much preferred the interior color choices in the W221. What I would give to be able to have a full Savannah Beige interior in my S560. With the current interiors, half of the interior is black, no matter what interior color you choose. I believe that this is a cost cutting measure by MB, it cheapens the look of the interiors and I really don’t like it. So, I order a full black interior.
5. On the W221, you could order the Panorama Roof if you wanted it. In the W222, MB shoves the ugly glass roof down your throat, as it is now standard equipment. Real luxury is the ability to have something the way YOU want it, not the way some bean counter in Germany wants it.
6. All that said, warts and all, my 2018 S560 is the best car I have ever owned and at last count, I’ve had almost 65 brand new ones over my many years. If you can afford a new one, get it. I highly recommend ordering it with 18” wheels, swapping out the run flat tires and carrying a TireFit Kit for emergencies.
Good luck!
1. The W221 is way better looking. It has a unique, commanding presence. It is much more stately than the W222. The fact that the W222 has cookie-cutter looks ala the C & E Class cars really hurts the current S. To me, the S Class is the top of the heap and should have a unique look.
2. My current MBC equipped 2018 rides way better than the 2013 or 2015 and with the “Curve” function, it is truly phenomenal.
3. To me, “THE” worst thing about the W222 is the lack of a spare wheel/tire AND the lack of a place to put one, should an owner wish to provide their own.
4. I much preferred the interior color choices in the W221. What I would give to be able to have a full Savannah Beige interior in my S560. With the current interiors, half of the interior is black, no matter what interior color you choose. I believe that this is a cost cutting measure by MB, it cheapens the look of the interiors and I really don’t like it. So, I order a full black interior.
5. On the W221, you could order the Panorama Roof if you wanted it. In the W222, MB shoves the ugly glass roof down your throat, as it is now standard equipment. Real luxury is the ability to have something the way YOU want it, not the way some bean counter in Germany wants it.
6. All that said, warts and all, my 2018 S560 is the best car I have ever owned and at last count, I’ve had almost 65 brand new ones over my many years. If you can afford a new one, get it. I highly recommend ordering it with 18” wheels, swapping out the run flat tires and carrying a TireFit Kit for emergencies.
Good luck!
12-09-2018, 11:54 PM
#27
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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
I know you've mentioned the mandatory panoramic roof before and I highly agree with you living in Arizona. I just happened to be on the German MB site, and the panoramic roof in NOT standard and is an option in Germany. I know the packages and other options are grouped differently and things that are standard on US spec cars (garage door opener as an example) are not standard in other countries. But if they build the damn things in Germany without the pano roof, why can't we get one here like that? I feel your pain.
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ChuckinTucson (12-11-2018)
12-10-2018, 10:40 AM
#29
Go to dealer only auctions and pay cash for a W222. Got mine for 41k (stolen salvage admittedly) and can write it off as a bonus. I missed the depreciation train which is what I wanted. Beautiful car btw
Last edited by brodaiga; 12-10-2018 at 10:43 AM.
12-10-2018, 01:55 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
useless?? Knowing exactly where you door is going to stop and no having it bang back on your knee, or forward on another car is useless?!? Lol
tell it to bentley and rolls royce!! Clearly they aren’t too worried about being on an incline or whatever lame reasoning people give.
12-10-2018, 02:01 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Which does not work on my W221. After further research and with konigstigers help, I found out there was a recall for this, as many owners had complaint that their doors will not stop and move/close. It is a little plastic piece which provides friction for the door rod and it fails.
Per service bulletin provided by konigstiger, it looks like a major pain in the a$$ to replace this plastic retainer (@ $7.00 item), by having to remove the interior door liner and other components to get to it.
At this point, I am not up for doing all this.
Per service bulletin provided by konigstiger, it looks like a major pain in the a$$ to replace this plastic retainer (@ $7.00 item), by having to remove the interior door liner and other components to get to it.
At this point, I am not up for doing all this.
12-10-2018, 02:04 PM
#32
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I have a 2013 S550 I bought back in 2014. It's got like 84k miles now and I'm thinking about upgrading. I never cared too much for the new body types (which is why I bought a 2013 in 2014 when my E350 lease was up), but now I am kind of beginning to appreciate it for what it is. I just don't think it's as commanding a presence as the W221 in its day.
Anyway, if I'm going to upgrade I want to lease (not buy this time) again, and I want it to be an S560. Problem is, I went to the dealership to take a look today and I noticed some things that have changed... and REALLY shouldn't have been changed.
First of all, when I flung open the doors as a test, they didn't stop where they landed. This, to me, is absolutely unacceptable in a $121,000 car. The gliding, soft doors was one of my favorite features of the W221. I examined 4 different S560s and they all did the same thing. It's like my new GLE 350's door; a little smoother than your average car, but is still a slave to like three or four hard positions. On the W221, any of the four doors will glide as smooth as can be, and wherever it stops, it stops! It doesn't snap back and hit your knees or scuff your shoes or cause general discomfort. How has this been allowed to happen to the S-class?
Next issue: The back seat. Where did all the space go? I used to sit in the back of my S550 when no one was even in it -- in my damn driveway by myself! -- just because I felt like royalty when I did it. I still do it once in a while. People remark all the time on how spacious and comfortable the back seat is. In the S560 my knees were practically touching the drivers seat (which was not that far back, and I'm not super tall -- 5'10"). In the W221 I feel like there's an ocean of space before me when I sit back there... but in the new ones I feel like I'm in the back of the damn GLE!! Well, not exactly, but there's nowhere near as much legroom (Btw-- I love my GLE, I am not trying to disparage it in any way.. but we're talking about an S-class here)
So where did all the back seat go? Is the trunk larger? According to the specs the W221 and W222 are the same size, right? Well, I don't see it. The W221 looks way longer from the outside, and it *is* way longer on the inside.
I was looking forward to my nearly $1500/mo S550 finance payments concluding soon, so I could maintain my beloved car forever... but stuff starts to break, and it all becomes a hassle. If I'm going to move into a different car and renew (and probably increase) the monthly outlay, I need to know why Mercedes made such weird choices with the two things I mentioned. It seems like nobody online anywhere wants to discuss it... and Mercedes sure as hell doesn't want to own up to it.
Anyone ever wonder the same things? And what would you do if you were me: accept the flaws and lease the new car -- or -- go into "restoration mode" with my W221? Meaning, bring it to Mercedes proper (not my mechanic) and pay for it to be overhauled and restored to the point that it could be resold. Is that even worth it? I know the engine will last forever, but if I can't count on my own car -- an S550 no less -- then what the hell is the point? I could at least get maybe $20k for it right now. Ugh, I'm so torn. Please weigh in. Thank you... and it's good to be a part of this community.
Anyway, if I'm going to upgrade I want to lease (not buy this time) again, and I want it to be an S560. Problem is, I went to the dealership to take a look today and I noticed some things that have changed... and REALLY shouldn't have been changed.
First of all, when I flung open the doors as a test, they didn't stop where they landed. This, to me, is absolutely unacceptable in a $121,000 car. The gliding, soft doors was one of my favorite features of the W221. I examined 4 different S560s and they all did the same thing. It's like my new GLE 350's door; a little smoother than your average car, but is still a slave to like three or four hard positions. On the W221, any of the four doors will glide as smooth as can be, and wherever it stops, it stops! It doesn't snap back and hit your knees or scuff your shoes or cause general discomfort. How has this been allowed to happen to the S-class?
Next issue: The back seat. Where did all the space go? I used to sit in the back of my S550 when no one was even in it -- in my damn driveway by myself! -- just because I felt like royalty when I did it. I still do it once in a while. People remark all the time on how spacious and comfortable the back seat is. In the S560 my knees were practically touching the drivers seat (which was not that far back, and I'm not super tall -- 5'10"). In the W221 I feel like there's an ocean of space before me when I sit back there... but in the new ones I feel like I'm in the back of the damn GLE!! Well, not exactly, but there's nowhere near as much legroom (Btw-- I love my GLE, I am not trying to disparage it in any way.. but we're talking about an S-class here)
So where did all the back seat go? Is the trunk larger? According to the specs the W221 and W222 are the same size, right? Well, I don't see it. The W221 looks way longer from the outside, and it *is* way longer on the inside.
I was looking forward to my nearly $1500/mo S550 finance payments concluding soon, so I could maintain my beloved car forever... but stuff starts to break, and it all becomes a hassle. If I'm going to move into a different car and renew (and probably increase) the monthly outlay, I need to know why Mercedes made such weird choices with the two things I mentioned. It seems like nobody online anywhere wants to discuss it... and Mercedes sure as hell doesn't want to own up to it.
Anyone ever wonder the same things? And what would you do if you were me: accept the flaws and lease the new car -- or -- go into "restoration mode" with my W221? Meaning, bring it to Mercedes proper (not my mechanic) and pay for it to be overhauled and restored to the point that it could be resold. Is that even worth it? I know the engine will last forever, but if I can't count on my own car -- an S550 no less -- then what the hell is the point? I could at least get maybe $20k for it right now. Ugh, I'm so torn. Please weigh in. Thank you... and it's good to be a part of this community.
i appreciate the perspective. Doesn’t anybody ever acknowledge the reduced size back seat and cheap door glide ? It seems like a glaring thing to me, but there’s almost no mention of it online.
After the w222 test yesterday I thought maybe this is partially in my head... so I sat in my own w221 back seat. It was like night and day. Not in my head at all. Back of my car is like a damn limousine. I was also on drivers side where I keep the front seat pretty far back! It looked like an extra 8 inches. If the back seat on w221 is so much smaller and people say the trunk is also smaller... where the hell is the space hiding?? Certainly not the hood
If the back back seat is so small
12-10-2018, 03:03 PM
#33
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useless?? Knowing exactly where you door is going to stop and no having it bang back on your knee, or forward on another car is useless?!? Lol
tell it to bentley and rolls royce!! Clearly they aren’t too worried about being on an incline or whatever lame reasoning people give.
One can argue over the design. Some like the old one, some like the new one.
But especially the S560 is technically on a different level in every aspect. Not small stuff like a door hinge but all major features like active/passive safety systems, the engine and transmission, suspension, etc.
There are few products that will satisfy 100% in every aspect. If the features are there that are important to you, go ahead and get the car. If the door hinges and perceived rear seat/trunk space are more important to you, don't.
12-10-2018, 03:21 PM
#34
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I agree with you you 100%. While the dimensions may show the same, it's just how it feels in the back seat. It just feels more cramped with less space. I don't know how to explain it, but to just agree and repeat what you said in the above posts. And the door glide (still looking for the official name of this feature) is great and has saved me many times. I tried looking up introduction features of the 2007 S class, when it came out, and can't find out that they call this? I even tried going through the owners manual, which you think somewhere would talk about this feature?!?!
Anyway, I don't mean to offend but I don't remember the W221 rear seats to be anything but bare bone benches; just a step above the Tesla stiff rear bench. Less contoured, simple center armrest, crappy headrests and "plasticy" backside of front seats. Unless Designo, S600/65 at least...
I looked at some old pics of our W222 and it seemed to be such a nicer place to be. And those headrest pillows
12-10-2018, 04:35 PM
#35
Quite frankly I can't follow your reasoning here.
One can argue over the design. Some like the old one, some like the new one.
But especially the S560 is technically on a different level in every aspect. Not small stuff like a door hinge but all major features like active/passive safety systems, the engine and transmission, suspension, etc.
There are few products that will satisfy 100% in every aspect. If the features are there that are important to you, go ahead and get the car. If the door hinges and perceived rear seat/trunk space are more important to you, don't.
One can argue over the design. Some like the old one, some like the new one.
But especially the S560 is technically on a different level in every aspect. Not small stuff like a door hinge but all major features like active/passive safety systems, the engine and transmission, suspension, etc.
There are few products that will satisfy 100% in every aspect. If the features are there that are important to you, go ahead and get the car. If the door hinges and perceived rear seat/trunk space are more important to you, don't.
12-10-2018, 04:53 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
If you are worried about your w221 and the miles, maybe look for one with low miles and ride out the w221 wave.... Also, you know there are new options to change the command out and get your w221 to work with car play, play videos stream, do whatever and update the command for about $500. IF that concerns you. For the first time ever, if you have an older car, the infotainment doesn't have to look older. This functions as a touch screen and well and working from the factory knob.
12-10-2018, 05:30 PM
#37
If you are worried about your w221 and the miles, maybe look for one with low miles and ride out the w221 wave.... Also, you know there are new options to change the command out and get your w221 to work with car play, play videos stream, do whatever and update the command for about $500. IF that concerns you. For the first time ever, if you have an older car, the infotainment doesn't have to look older. This functions as a touch screen and well and working from the factory knob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGEeM-vu5qA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGEeM-vu5qA
12-10-2018, 08:17 PM
#38
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oh I don’t doubt that. The s560 seems far superior mechanically, technologically and more. I would never dispute that. I guess I’m just frustrated that they had to lose things in order to gain others — even if they seem irrelevant to you. The gentleman above shared pics of his beautiful 2018 S-class, explaining how the interior lighting was incredibly important to him. That sort of thing doesn’t matter at all to me, because I don’t ever want my cat cabin to look like a club or whatever — but I would never disparage his tastes. That matters to him, like the extra legroom and soft doors matter to me. We all have vain cosmetic preferences! But I don’t think any of us disputes the excellence of an S class Mercedes.
Our BMW 7 series used to have the same door hinge feature and I believe they still do. Maybe a worth to test drive the 7 Series. They also added they option back in to get a spare (killing most of the trunk space, but still)..
Either way, I wish the best of luck in your decision
12-17-2018, 11:50 AM
#39
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I’ve mentioned this here before, but since the current Maybach is nothing more than a stretched S560, why not make the Maybach line a more luxurious and prestigious line of several top line M.B. vehicles? It could include the current long wheelbase S560, the extra long wheelbase as the current Maybach is, the GLS and maybe the new SL. If the S Class Coupe & Cabriolet we’re sticking around, they would be included as well. As Maybach badged cars, they could offer them with many more exclusive finishes, interior options, wheel choices, etc.? WHY NOT offer a $150K to maybe $200K S560, but call it a Maybach and let the customer have it THEIR way? It would be WAY better than coughing up for a Bentley, at least in my opinion. And don’t give me the old argument that MB tried this with the Maybach 57 & 62 models. Those cars were just way too expensive, way too ugly and lacked the requisite cachet to compete with Rolls-Royce. Oh well, I can dream, can’t I?
