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Thinking of putting on bumper sticker

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Old 10-18-2017, 05:57 PM
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Thinking of putting on bumper sticker


I like this one
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:28 PM
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I am sure you will get some honks and we know you can certainly honk back.
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:32 PM
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This is un-American

Originally Posted by dbldpr View Post

I like this one
This is un-American and not what I went to war twice for. This is still a country where the First Amendment protects the right to free speech.
You might feel more at home in Russia, China or North Korea.

Besides which bumper stickers on a Mercedes-Benz would be trashy.
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:34 PM
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Wait, aren't bumper stickers protected under the 1st amendment too? Or is that legally considered the car talking and they'd don't have any rights?
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
Wait, aren't bumper stickers protected under the 1st amendment too? Or is that legally considered the car talking and they'd don't have any rights?
I have another one that says Stand for the Flag and one other that says I stand for the flag and Kneel for the cross. I have no Idea what El Cid has said since he is on my ignore list. What ever he says it is not worth it. some people just look for an argument and twist what is said to further there argument. I now have 2 people on my ignore list. It is a shame you cannot stop them from posting on a thread. I am sure that someone could argue that the car has some legal right. I am just glad that the football Quarterback that started everything cannot get hired. He made his bed now he needs to sleep in it. What did he expect?
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:04 PM
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Actually forget the legal issue over whether or not the car has rights, the 1st amendment doesn't apply here since the NFL is not a form of government. There are plenty of stories of folks who are no longer employed because of their speech, whether you agree with what they said or not.
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:08 PM
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Not sure that goes with a foreign car. How about the Chevy?
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
Actually forget the legal issue over whether or not the car has rights, the 1st amendment doesn't apply here since the NFL is not a form of government. There are plenty of stories of folks who are no longer employed because of their speech, whether you agree with what they said or not.
I agree
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KEY08 View Post
Not sure that goes with a foreign car. How about the Chevy?
Think of the foreign car as a legal alien. Of an immigrant worker. They all have more rights that a natural born citizen. You put it on the chevy (Natural born) and you would be arrested.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:30 PM
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Even if cars are assembled in USA, they are often made with foreign parts. http://time.com/4677817/american-car...manufacturing/
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dbldpr View Post

I like this one
Same person who took this pic?

Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
This is un-American and not what I went to war twice for. This is still a country where the First Amendment protects the right to free speech.
You might feel more at home in Russia, China or North Korea.


Originally Posted by dbldpr View Post
...... It is a shame you cannot stop them from posting on a thread.
Another 1st Amendment supporter ....... as long it doesn’t offend him.


Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
the 1st amendment doesn't apply here since the NFL is not a form of government.
Huh?

Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
Even if cars are assembled in USA, they are always made with foreign parts. http://time.com/4677817/american-car...manufacturing/
FIFY
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AMGfaninVA View Post
Same person who took this pic?





Another 1st Amendment supporter ....... as long it doesn’t offend him.



Huh?


FIFY
Really?
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dbldpr View Post
Really?
Yup
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AMGfaninVA View Post
Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
A the 1st amendment doesn't apply here since the NFL is not a form of government.
Huh?
It's a protection against the government (or its agencies), not private parties. There are a bunch of sources out there - here are some samples:
https://lifehacker.com/5953755/what-...o-the-internet
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politi...rnd/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...-judgment.html
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
It's a protection against the government (or its agencies), not private parties. There are a bunch of sources out there - here are some samples:
https://lifehacker.com/5953755/what-...o-the-internet
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politi...rnd/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...-judgment.html
not worth trying to explain to AMGfaninVA he quotes only part of what is said and not the whole text to try and benefit his or her argument. You just need to ignore it Some people you cannot do anything about because they get there kicks arguing and making negative comments just to argue. Every forum has this type of person. I call them gremlins and they are not worth the time of day
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
This is un-American and not what I went to war twice for. This is still a country where the First Amendment protects the right to free speech.
You might feel more at home in Russia, China or North Korea.
What's wrong with his right to free speech with the bumper sticker?
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
It's a protection against the government (or its agencies), not private parties. There are a bunch of sources out there - here are some samples:
https://lifehacker.com/5953755/what-...o-the-internet
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/27/politi...rnd/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...-judgment.html
Taken from your CNN reference;


WHAT SPEECH ISN'T COVERED UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT?
  • Obscenity (the definition relies on context, but regular old **** is not considered obscene)
  • Fighting words
  • Defamation
  • Child pornography
  • Perjury
  • Blackmail
  • Incitement to imminent lawless action
  • True threats
  • Solicitations to commit crimes
  • Plagiarism of copyrighted material




Source: The Newseum Institute




This is a First Amendment issue, at the very least in spirit.
"Symbolic speech is protected by the constitution," Nott says. "In essence, you have the right to not speak. You have the right to silence."
In theory, a private employer could require you to stand for the anthem or say the Pledge of Allegiance, but such a requirement may run afoul of the Civil Rights Act. Even in schools, where there have been some cases of students being singled out for sitting or kneeling for the anthem, it would be hard to provide justification for punishment.
"This is an act of political speech, the most protected type of speech," Nott says. "It's completely not disruptive because it's silent." Plus, it is buttressed by court cases that have decided there is no requirement to salute the flag.

Additionally, the players are part of a union. If the league/team owners wanted to implement a prohibition of free speech (in any or all forms) it may be a contractual issue.

Bottom line, even though Goodell is against any silent protests during the national anthem, if the NFL enacted a “no kneeling” requirement there would likely be numerous lawsuits launched (ACLU for example), bringing even more negative attention to the league. Regardless of what side the league comes down on it's going to be viewed as wrong by many. Goodell is simply choosing what he see’s as the least damaging route by not prohibiting the silent protests, but publicly speaking out against it.

FWIW, I don’t like the kneeling either, but I respect their (I believe) right to do so. There are far, far more important issues to be concerned about.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dbldpr View Post
not worth trying to explain to AMGfaninVA he quotes only part of what is said and not the whole text to try and benefit his or her argument. You just need to ignore it Some people you cannot do anything about because they get there kicks arguing and making negative comments just to argue. Every forum has this type of person. I call them gremlins and they are not worth the time of day
So easy to try to brush off a challenge to your opinion rather than respond with an informed counter argument. Did I take anything you said out of context or misquote you?
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Old 10-19-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AMGfaninVA View Post
Taken from your CNN reference;


WHAT SPEECH ISN'T COVERED UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT?
  • Obscenity (the definition relies on context, but regular old **** is not considered obscene)
  • Fighting words
  • Defamation
  • Child pornography
  • Perjury
  • Blackmail
  • Incitement to imminent lawless action
  • True threats
  • Solicitations to commit crimes
  • Plagiarism of copyrighted material




Source: The Newseum Institute




This is a First Amendment issue, at the very least in spirit.
"Symbolic speech is protected by the constitution," Nott says. "In essence, you have the right to not speak. You have the right to silence."
In theory, a private employer could require you to stand for the anthem or say the Pledge of Allegiance, but such a requirement may run afoul of the Civil Rights Act. Even in schools, where there have been some cases of students being singled out for sitting or kneeling for the anthem, it would be hard to provide justification for punishment.
"This is an act of political speech, the most protected type of speech," Nott says. "It's completely not disruptive because it's silent." Plus, it is buttressed by court cases that have decided there is no requirement to salute the flag.

Additionally, the players are part of a union. If the league/team owners wanted to implement a prohibition of free speech (in any or all forms) it may be a contractual issue.

Bottom line, even though Goodell is against any silent protests during the national anthem, if the NFL enacted a “no kneeling” requirement there would likely be numerous lawsuits launched (ACLU for example), bringing even more negative attention to the league. Regardless of what side the league comes down on it's going to be viewed as wrong by many. Goodell is simply choosing what he see’s as the least damaging route by not prohibiting the silent protests, but publicly speaking out against it.

FWIW, I don’t like the kneeling either, but I respect their (I believe) right to do so. There are far, far more important issues to be concerned about.
I read that same stuff. Sure losing employment or other consequences as a result of your speech could be a civil rights or contract issue depending on the circumstances, but then it's not a 1st amendment issue. I'm not a law scholar or anything close. Just find this stuff interesting. And it seems the 1st amendment gets over applied.

This anthem/NFL stuff is a lose/lose. Feels like everything nowadays is an excuse for political parties to exploit for purpose of dividing us. Used to be that standing for the anthem was one thing that we used to do together. Guess they've ruined that too. I don't blame Kaep. I blame the politicians and media for making a circus of it.
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Old 10-19-2017, 12:27 AM
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We don't need laws requiring patriotism. That way people have the freedom to show us how stupid they are.

As soon as they start talking about the "Freedom of Speech" at work, and/or when representing a team/company/employer/city/etc. they have shown you that the failed civics!

https://www.hrexaminer.com/is-there-...peech-at-work/
No Constitutional Free Speech At Work

Employees don’t have a Constitutional right to free speech or freedom of expression at work. The Constitution’s right to free speech only applies when the government is trying to restrict it. Even then, it’s not absolute. There is no free speech in your house; ask your mom. And there is no legal right to free speech or expression at work. (If you work for the government, there is a special set of rules that apply.)

So employers are generally free to restrict employee speech, at least while they are at work.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thefisch View Post
This anthem/NFL stuff is a lose/lose. Feels like everything nowadays is an excuse for political parties to exploit for purpose of dividing us. Used to be that standing for the anthem was one thing that we used to do together. Guess they've ruined that too. I don't blame Kaep. I blame the politicians and media for making a circus of it.
I agree that the country is becoming more divided. The kneeling issue had already been widely reported and many unhappy fans were already voicing their displeasure however, Trump has fanned the flames division greatly by inserting himself into the debate, asserting that mandatory displays of patriotism be required.

Whether or not there is a 1st Amendment attachment to the silent protests is for legal experts to debate, but what message does it present to Americans (and other countries watching) when fellow Americans are forced/coerced into insincere acts of patriotism?
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:18 AM
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It could be coincidence, and he could be contributing, Well not really "contributing", more likely making an off topic or irrelevant comment.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:33 AM
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Can't go wrong with an American flag bumper sticker. That said, the best bumper stickers I've seen: 1) "If you can read this, I lost my boat."2) "If you think my car's dirty, you should see my wife."
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by OneAdam12 View Post
Can't go wrong with an American flag bumper sticker. That said, the best bumper stickers I've seen: 1) "If you can read this, I lost my boat."2) "If you think my car's dirty, you should see my wife."
I like thanks
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Old 10-19-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AMGfaninVA View Post
I agree that the country is becoming more divided. The kneeling issue had already been widely reported and many unhappy fans were already voicing their displeasure however, Trump has fanned the flames division greatly by inserting himself into the debate, asserting that mandatory displays of patriotism be required.

Whether or not there is a 1st Amendment attachment to the silent protests is for legal experts to debate, but what message does it present to Americans (and other countries watching) when fellow Americans are forced/coerced into insincere acts of patriotism?
I need to clarify what I meant when I said 'exploit for the purpose of dividing us'. I actually don't think we are more divided than we have been before. They just want us to feel that way so we become beholden to them to protect what they tell us should be important to us. I think we have more in common than they want us to think. Politicians and media want to label everything so we feel like we have to choose which side we are on. If you go back to last fall, Kaep was sitting on the bench during the anthem a few times before anyone made a big deal about it. Then the media was all over him and they wanted to know which candidate he was supporting.

I am not saying we all get along and agree on everything. I just think emphasizing differences makes us weaker rather than stronger. We have to work together to get things done.
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