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Trump's support is from the less educated people in this country

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Trump's support is from the less educated people in this country

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Old 06-13-2018, 06:21 AM
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Trump's strongest support is from the less educated people in this country

A less polite way to put it is: Stupid people tend to support Trump!

all races:

source

whites:


source

States with the most-educated populations support Trump the least:


source

Last edited by syswei; 06-14-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:25 AM
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There is a big difference between stupidity and lack of education. Many examples on this forum.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
There is a big difference between stupidity and lack of education.
Understood. It is true that lack of education does not in itself mean stupid.

But, stupid people do tend to be less educated. And, the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; the average non-college grad is going to be stupider than the average college grad; and, the average non-postgrad degree recipient is going to be stupider than the average postgrad degree recipient.

So, there is going to be some correlation between stupidity and supporting Trump.

Last edited by syswei; 06-13-2018 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:18 AM
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#smh here... validity of polls and polling aside (#askhillary) - attempting to assuage one's political bitterness from a poll of 1,466 respondents is beyond the pale, but par for the course in these times. #smh ...but feel free to keep trying to affirm your bias (read prejudice) though - if it makes you feel better.
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
But, stupid people do tend to be less educated.
...confusing intelligence with education is the epitome of stupidity...
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
And, the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; the average non-college grad is going to be stupider than the average college grad; and, the average non-postgrad degree recipient is going to be stupider than the average postgrad degree recipient.So, there is going to be some correlation between stupidity and supporting Trump.
...wow #smh... overly-broad and baseless generalizations about people and their intelligence based only on their education levels are... well... stupid - not to mention prejudiced.

...these presumptive assertions coming from one who has posted their disapproval of trump - while if trump made these assumptive and overly-broad generalizations about people and their intelligence based only on their education level he'd be impaled by this same person... #epitomeofhypocrisy #smh
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrixUSA View Post
overly-broad and baseless generalizations about people and their intelligence based only on their education levels are... well... stupid - not to mention prejudiced.
Some data that back me up:

White Americans with no degree: Average IQ 87

White Americans with high school diploma/GED: Average IQ 99

White Americans with an Associate degree: Average IQ 104

White Americans with a Bachelor’s degree: Average IQ 113

White Americans with a Master’s degree: Average IQ 117

White Americans with PhD, LLD, MD, DDS: Average IQ 124

source


Where did I say "only" anyway?

You're welcome to try to find something proving there is no relationship between degree of educational attainment and intelligence.

Ironic that your idol Donald Trump once said "I went to an Ivy League college...I did very well. I'm a very intelligent person."

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Old 06-13-2018, 10:51 AM
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^ ^ ...data from a blog validates your overly-broad and baseless generalizations about people and their intelligence based only on their education level? #smh - more like you found a blog site that affirms your bias and prejudice...

Like i posted, feel free to keep trying to affirm your bias if it makes you feel better - no thanks for me.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrixUSA View Post
^ ^ ...data from a blog validates your overly-broad and baseless generalizations about people and their intelligence based only on their education level? #smh - more like you found a blog site that affirms your bias and prejudice...

Like i posted, feel free to keep trying to affirm your bias if it makes you feel better - no thanks for me.
You appear to take the first thought that comes into your head that might support your own bias, and run with that. If you had actually taken a moment to read the very FIRST sentence in the "source" link in my post, you would have seen that the underlying data came from "page 63 of Charles Murray’s book Coming Apart". According to Amazon's listing for that book btw "CHARLES MURRAY is the W. H. Brady Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He first came to national attention in 1984 with Losing Ground. His subsequent books include In Pursuit, The Bell Curve (with Richard J. Herrnstein), What It Means to Be a Libertarian, Human Accomplishment, In Our Hands, and Real Education. He received a bachelor’s degree in history from Harvard and a Ph.D. in political science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."

Still waiting for you to post some data showing that there is no relationship between educational attainment and intelligence. Absent that, I think you should retract your statement that my claim is a "overly-broad and baseless generalizations". What YOU are saying is baseless; I've shown some data, and you have not.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:13 AM
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Yeah right

as a highly educated MD who voted for Trump I’m indebted to all the “stupid” people who voted for him. There is much difference between education and common sense.

This thread smells of intellectual elitism , one of the factors which propelled common men to vote for Trump.

Yes at at times he’s a narcissistic buffoon. So what ? He is what the country needs and he is keeping his promises. He speaks frankly without regard to his critics. I find this refreshing.

Go Trump :-)
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by J**2 View Post
This thread smells of intellectual elitism...
...agreed, but more like institutional elitism imo, as in educational institutions... as according to op's "data" posted in a blog - someone with a phd is proffering the intellectual superiority of those with phds... if that seems a little elitist, presumptuous and self-serving... it is.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei View Post
You appear to take the first thought that comes into your head that might support your own bias, and run with that. If you had actually taken a moment to read the very FIRST sentence in the "source" link in my post, you would have seen that the underlying data came from "page 63 of Charles Murray’s book Coming Apart". According to Amazon's listing for that book btw "CHARLES MURRAY is the W. H. Brady Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He first came to national attention in 1984 with Losing Ground. His subsequent books include In Pursuit, The Bell Curve (with Richard J. Herrnstein), What It Means to Be a Libertarian, Human Accomplishment, In Our Hands, and Real Education. He received a bachelor’s degree in history from Harvard and a Ph.D. in political science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."
...so a blog site touting someone with a phd espousing the intellectual superiority of those with phds... surely no bias there...
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
Still waiting for you to post some data showing that there is no relationship between educational attainment and intelligence. Absent that, I think you should retract your statement that my claim is a "overly-broad and baseless generalizations". What YOU are saying is baseless; I've shown some data, and you have not.
...no data to my knowledge will change bias or prejudice, experience, personal interaction and observation are your best bet.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by J**2 View Post
as a highly educated MD who voted for Trump I’m indebted to all the “stupid” people who voted for him. There is much difference between education and common sense.
This thread smells of intellectual elitism , one of the factors which propelled common men to vote for Trump.
Yes at at times he’s a narcissistic buffoon. So what ? He is what the country needs and he is keeping his promises. He speaks frankly without regard to his critics. I find this refreshing.
Go Trump :-)
You should contact a psychiatrist buddy and arrange a barter for services, your grip on reality is slipping. Trump is consistently a narcissistic buffoon and he speaks whatever idiotic idea comes into his head without consideration of the possible effect. That doesn’t make him more “genuine”, it is more proof of his stupidity. There is nothing refreshing about an addled septuagenarian man-boy.



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Old 06-13-2018, 02:10 PM
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PatrixUSA,

Your arguments are frankly pathetic.

I present something and you accuse me of being biased, as if making that accusation will make you seem unbiased; but anyone with half a brain can see that you are as biased as anyone here.

You call my posts "unsubstantiated" but when I substantiate them with data, you say "experience, personal interaction and observation are your best bet". So, you ask for substantiation, but that substantiation should be ignored if it doesn't agree with your biases. Just put on those rose-colored glasses, PatrixUSA.

Certainly we can "observe" that there are some smart people that didn't go to college, or who dropped out (like Bill Gates); that anecdotal observation does not prove that there is no correlation between level of educational attainment and intelligence. Unless and until you can "substantiate" that there is no correlation, the data I posted speak for themselves.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:34 PM
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by syswei View Post
PatrixUSA,

Your arguments are frankly pathetic.

I present something and you accuse me of being biased, as if making that accusation will make you seem unbiased; but anyone with half a brain can see that you are as biased as anyone here.

You call my posts "unsubstantiated" but when I substantiate them with data, you say "experience, personal interaction and observation are your best bet". So, you ask for substantiation, but that substantiation should be ignored if it doesn't agree with your biases. Just put on those rose-colored glasses, PatrixUSA.

Certainly we can "observe" that there are some smart people that didn't go to college, or who dropped out (like Bill Gates); that anecdotal observation does not prove that there is no correlation between level of educational attainment and intelligence. Unless and until you can "substantiate" that there is no correlation, the data I posted speak for themselves.
Thx for your somewhat reasonable response (minus the "half a brain" part ;-), but don't take as a personal attack, not meant to be personal.

my assertion is based on what you've posted... if you think...
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
...the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; the average non-college grad is going to be stupider than the average college grad; and, the average non-postgrad degree recipient is going to be stupider than the average postgrad degree recipient.
and
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
...there is going to be some correlation between stupidity and supporting Trump.
...as that's what you've posted, then that's what you think, fair enough, i'm just not willing or going to make those generalizations about people - so i posted my disagreement with those generalizations.

we can certainly agree to disagree... there's no need to take that disagreement and make it personal like some on here do. i do my best to reciprocate treatment, if you take accountability for what you post and are reasonable and respectful, i will reciprocate.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:20 PM
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PatrixUSA,

Thank you for keeping this cordial! By the standards of OT, you are exceptionally gracious.

Originally Posted by syswei View Post
the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; the average non-college grad is going to be stupider than the average college grad; and, the average non-postgrad degree recipient is going to be stupider than the average postgrad degree recipient.

So, there is going to be some correlation between stupidity and supporting Trump.
Originally Posted by PatrixUSA View Post
i'm just not willing or going to make those generalizations about people - so i posted my disagreement with those generalizations.
The data back up my generalization that the degree of educational attainment is correlated with intelligence. Please note the bold I added to "average" in the quote above. I wouldn't dream of claiming that all high school dropouts are stupider than all college grads, for instance. I am talking about averages, and the data posted talks about averages. There will be some super-smart people who are less-educated, but the average less-educated person is going to be less intelligent than the average well-educated person.

Poll data show that support for Trump is negatively correlated with degree of educational attainment. Not just the polls in the OP, but I believe ANY poll that asks about both approval/disapproval of Trump and degree of educational attainment is going to show the same thing, to some degree, even Rasmussen.

When A is correlated to B and B is correlated to C, A will be correlated to C. e.g., it is implicit from the available evidence that stupidity is correlated with support for Trump. So the data back me up, and you have no data to back up your rejection of my generalizations.


​​​​​​​
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:52 PM
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no stress, disagreement should not = discourteous imo
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
The data back up my generalization that the degree of educational attainment is correlated with intelligence. Please note the bold I added to "average" in the quote above. I wouldn't dream of claiming that all high school dropouts are stupider than all college grads, for instance. I am talking about averages, and the data posted talks about averages. There will be some super-smart people who are less-educated, but the average less-educated person is going to be less intelligent than the average well-educated person.
-bold for emphasis mine- ...to your point about "data", i think "The data back up my generalization..." says it all - and encapsulates my point somewhat... v v
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
So the data back me up, and you have no data to back up your rejection of my generalizations.​​​​​​​
i "reject" your generalization bc it is just that - an overly-broad generalization bc it erroneously equates an entire "average" population based on a single data point or basis: less school = "stupider"

..."data" is a tricky thing when it comes to people - bc there's much more to it than the simplified less school = "stupider" generalization you made / are making... "average" or no - that one data point does not an "average" person or an "average" population make.

does the data indicate that blacks commit more murder than any other race? well, yes it does (source)

does that mean by using your data logic, it would be okay to generalize that the "average" black person is going to be more-murderous than the "average" (insert other race here) person? - is that overly-broad, simplified and baseless "average" generalization okay bc of that one data point?

you can most likely tell based on my descriptions that i don't think it is, i will not (at least i try not to) judge a book solely by it's cover - lots of pages (data points) to read under the cover...
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrixUSA View Post
does the data indicate that blacks commit more murder than any other race? well, yes it does (source)
What that data would imply is that if you pick at random 1M black people and 1M non-black people, the former group will have more convicted murderers in it than the latter group.

What the education and intelligence and Trump polling data imply is that if you pick 1M Trump supporters and 1M Trump non-supporters at random, the former group would have more dumb people (however defined, perhaps an IQ below 80 or 90 or some other level) than the latter group.

If you can't accept these notions then there may be no basis for further discussion.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei View Post
What that data would imply is that if you pick at random 1M black people and 1M non-black people, the former group will have more convicted murderers in it than the latter group.
...you posted that "the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; etc..." based on your data point (education level)... so why wouldn't the same be true that "the average black person is going to be more-murderous than the average non-black person" based on the data point (murder statistic)? - bc it's an overly-broad generalization as stated since it makes broad assumptions from only a single data point... same for your "stupider" assertion.

More so, your conclusion involves the intangible nature of intelligence (education level = intelligence), and while true, the conclusion i offered involves a single, factual, indisputable crime statistic (race = no. of murders), both statements as stated are still overly-broad generalizations imo.
Originally Posted by syswei View Post
What the education and intelligence and Trump polling data imply is that if you pick 1M Trump supporters and 1M Trump non-supporters at random, the former group would have more dumb people (however defined, perhaps an IQ below 80 or 90 or some other level) than the latter group. If you can't accept these notions then there may be no basis for further discussion.
wow... yeah, notions (syn: belief, opinion) re education = intelligence and trump generalization not accepted / agreed to... (see above) - fair enough.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrixUSA View Post
...you posted that "the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; etc..." based on your data point (education level)... so why wouldn't the same be true that "the average black person is going to be more-murderous than the average non-black person" based on the data point (murder statistic)?
Because being a convicted murderer is an either/or thing. Either you are or you aren't a convicted murderer; there is no in-between. So the appropriate conclusion from the data you posted is NOT that ""the average black person is going to be more-murderous" (if you mean that the average black person has more murderous intent that the average non-black). The appropriate conclusion is that in a randomly selected black person is more likely to be an actual convicted murderer than a randomly selected non-black.

The data show the average HS dropout has a lower IQ than the average HS grad, so indeed "the average HS dropout is going to be stupider than the average HS grad; etc...". I think that is pretty obvious, and if you don’t agree, you are in denial, wearing rose-colored glasses, and no amount of discussion here is going to change your mind. Trump's online store still sells those Made in China rose-colored glasses?

It is pretty clear to me that you haven't taken a statistics course (of have forgotten it), so when I use words like average and correlated, you have an idea of what I mean but don't quite get the statistical meaning or implications. I have limited patience and sorry am not willing to take the time to fully educate you.

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Old 06-14-2018, 06:56 AM
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei View Post
... I have limited patience and sorry am not willing to take the time to fully educate you.
no stress... i think you've provided all the information you can as to how (and in other threads provided some insight as to why) you've arrived at your overly-broad and generalized presumptions about people - and i've done the same as to why i took issue with those presumptions. #overandout
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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To repeat:

White Americans with no degree: Average IQ 87

White Americans with high school diploma/GED: Average IQ 99

White Americans with a Bachelor’s degree: Average IQ 113

source


Quiz for the day: Can any conclusion be reasonably be drawn as to which group is smarter or dumber?
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei View Post
A less polite way to put it is: Stupid people tend to support Trump!

all races:

source

whites:

I love statistics.

Can someone find the base-line where we verify if higher educated people simply have a lower approval rating for the actions politicians in general, or Presidents specifically?
Without that reference teh above data is meaningless. (except to statistically ignorant people)
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
I love statistics.

Can someone find the base-line where we verify if higher educated people simply have a lower approval rating for the actions politicians in general, or Presidents specifically?
Without that reference teh above data is meaningless. (except to statistically ignorant people)
OK so you are hypothesizing that possibly, more-educated people have a systematic disposition (as compared to their lesser-educated brethren) toward disapproving of Presidents. An interesting proposition, but from the checking I have done, that hypothesis isn't supported by the data:



source

The above source was more discussing a gender gap, but for our purposes, no matter how you slice the data, any of the past 3 Presidents (or the average of them) contrasts very sharply with Trump as far as an "education gap" in support:


...Trump appears to be the first President in at least 25 years whose support from college-educated whites is markedly lower than support from non-college whites; so there is no suggestion at least in these data that more-educated people systematically disapprove of their Presidents. Trump is exceptional, and not in a good way, imo.

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Old 06-15-2018, 05:22 PM
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the relationship between education level (mind you, not intelligence) and political affiliation is no surprise to me - as our educational institution is largely liberal, not really surprising in a system that is largely state-funded and state-run and advocates for a bigger government.
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