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Why this life-long pragmatist likes Trump

 
Old 08-05-2018, 11:35 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Das Geld 2 View Post
break down the facts
obama didn’t create manufacturing jobs. He created trash part time service jobs, maids, casino waiters. those weren’t jobs just a facade.
2nd those jobs were all for like 55+..haha and weren’t filled and 2 part time jobs counted as one full time, all shady math. I wonder if this admin still uses that math. The quality of the jobs are higher
trump took a bull market and turbocharged it.
Obama’s market was going to rebound regardless.
big difference
The brattt lawyer simply wasn’t smart enough to negotiate and leverage, trump is on a whole another level.
no need to be negative and discredit or throw a comparison though..

tds?
Fun read, got facts to back up this ^^ twaddle?

tds (Truth Denying Sucker)? No, that’s you.



Last edited by AMGfaninVA; 08-05-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:50 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Das Geld 2 View Post


break down the facts

obama didn’t create manufacturing jobs. He created trash part time service jobs, maids, casino waiters. those weren’t jobs just a facade.
2nd those jobs were all for like 55+..haha and weren’t filled and 2 part time jobs counted as one full time, all shady math. I wonder if this admin still uses that math. The quality of the jobs are higher

trump took a bull market and turbocharged it.

Obama’s market was going to rebound regardless.

big difference

The brattt lawyer simply wasn’t smart enough to negotiate and leverage, trump is on a whole another level.

no need to be negative and discredit or throw a comparison though..

tds?
Obama's job increases came at a reduction in labor participation.
Home ownership was slipping. Now heading the right way.
I'm reality, our economy runs mostly on expectations and confidence. Here is where the strides are being made.
​​​​​​
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:14 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Obama's job increases came at a reduction in labor participation.
Home ownership was slipping. Now heading the right way.
I'm reality, our economy runs mostly on expectations and confidence. Here is where the strides are being made.
​​​​​​
^^ All true. Obama deserves credit for pulling us out of a terrible recession and Trump deserves credit for moving us even further in the right direction, economically.

Also true, any president only has a limited influence on the economy.

Some recent findings and historical perspective; https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bro...ic-growth/amp/

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Old 08-05-2018, 07:02 PM
  #29  
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Anyone can step in and increase corporate profits by removing regulation (I forgot, and tax breaks). Some of this money will trickle down to the average person. Giving someone "credit" for destruction is silly but then it is silly season.

What you need to ask yourself is why do we have regulation? If you believe we need to agree to rules by which we live then the obvious problem becomes how do we elect good public servants to build consensus so that the rules we live by are fair and mindful of the near and far term consequences in addition to paying attention to unintended consequences.

We do not have-
good public servants
who build consensus
thus rules are not fair
and there is no attention paid to unintended consequences

We voters are responsible for the management we hire. We are accelerating in the wrong direction. These Ds and Rs you bark at are only our reflection in the mirror.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:55 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by AMGfaninVA View Post

Fun read, got facts to back up this ^^ twaddle?

tds (Truth Denying Sucker)? No, that’s you.


yea open any of the job reports and look at them 2014-2016
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:52 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Das Geld 2 View Post
yea open any of the job reports and look at them 2014-2016

Couldnt find any evidence supporting the underlined assertions. Would you please provide evidence of your assertion? Thanks.
Originally Posted by Das Geld 2 View Post
He created trash part time service jobs, maids, casino waiters, those weren’t jobs just a facade.
2nd those jobs were all for like 55. haha and weren’t filled and 2 part time jobs counted as one full time, all shady math. I wonder if this admin still uses that math. The quality of the jobs are highe
Well worth considering when discussing our economy under Obama is the fact that he took office during the worst recession in our country’s history. He had to work first to stabilize our economy before any recovery could begin. Could he have done more? Probably, but comparing Obama’s economic record to Trump’s without factoring in the real mess Obama started with is apples vs oranges.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:21 AM
  #32  
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As I posted in another thread, ANYONE can boost the economy by removing regulations (and giving corporate tax cuts). The problem is that most all of us understand and want rules of engagement (aka regulations) so that we do not live in the world of the Lord of the Flies. The key is sensible regulation and prosperity and that takes talent. The focus should be on hiring talented administrators. To do that, you have to remove the issue that keeps decent people from entering public service. Until the money goes, all we will attract is unethical and even criminal money grubbing dirtbags (notice the statement was gender neutral).
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:44 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
As I posted in another thread, ANYONE can boost the economy by removing regulations (and giving corporate tax cuts). .
Anyone can boost he economy during a recovery, which naturally occurs after a recession.
Seeing employment recovery at sum-normal recovery rates while labor participation drops is not a good sign.

Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
The problem is that most all of us understand and want rules of engagement (aka regulations) so that we do not live in the world of the Lord of the Flies. The key is sensible regulation .
The key is sensible regulation and there is no indication that the continuing growth in regulations that ACCELLERATED under Obamas was sensible or reasonable.

Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
. . . The focus should be on hiring talented administrators. To do that, you have to remove the issue that keeps decent people from entering public service. Until the money goes, all we will attract is unethical and even criminal money grubbing dirtbags (notice the statement was gender neutral).
I have no idea what you are trying to say?
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:58 PM
  #34  
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"I have no idea what you are trying to say?"

Yes, I know. This is the problem.

It's ok to work with Russian spies to get dirt on your opponent.
Money in politics is fine.
...... It is mind numbing to me but there you have it........
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:16 PM
  #35  
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It is easy to connect the dots when you add a few of your own.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:20 PM
  #36  
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Come on N_J, now I know you are having me on.
You got your guy. Let's just hang out here a while and see how things turn out. Neither of us is likely to be 100% correct but one of us is going to be close.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:00 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Come on N_J, now I know you are having me on.
You got your guy. Let's just hang out here a while and see how things turn out. Neither of us is likely to be 100% correct but one of us is going to be close.
Go back and read the opening post. I am already darn near spot on.

If you care to argue, please do so with clarity.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:26 AM
  #38  
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I've come to the conclusion that you are smart enough to see what is in front of you but are taking the position on trump that you are for reasons other than rule of law, right/wrong or moral correctness. You can rely on needing beyond a reasonable doubt levels of proof to avoid acknowledging what is going on if that is what it takes. I'm just not following you down that rat hole. I draw conclusions from what I see knowing all sources are biased. My point has been that the level of intensity with this problem likely means it will come to a head within the life/scope/time frame of this thread (say, over the next 6-12 months) so we will all have a lot more in the way of answers. We will see.

On a related note to things that are broken because we have lost our way and are making bad decisions-
Kavanaugh says he was not involved in any of the Bush White House toruture conversations during a Senate confirmation hearing on his appointment to a Federal Judgeship.
Kavanaugh's appointment is confirmed.
Reports come out around a year later that Kavanaugh may actually have been involved in those discussions.
At least one Senator follows up with Kavanaugh and Kavanaugh has not responded (and he has had 11 years to do so).
Senators ask for supporting (Bush White House) documents on the subject before meeting with Kavanaugh. The trump White House refuses.

Why we should care-
The Constitution provides for checks to power. The Senate confirms Judicial nominations. If a corrupt White House can get an appointee that has committed perjury in a previous confirmation hearing appointed to the Supreme Court by working with a corrupt Senate then the whole system we have agreed to live by is broken. I do not care if you are white/black/pink/purple Red/Blue, you should care about this. If you do not, then you do not care about the system that you inherited and that has afforded you the success you have achieved.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:27 PM
  #39  
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One of the big problems with these forum discussions is that unless issues are kept somewhat narrow, the thread devolves into a series of misunderstandings.You seem to be a champion of that.
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
I've come to the conclusion that you are smart enough to see what is in front of you but are taking the position on trump that you are for reasons other than rule of law, right/wrong or moral correctness.
No. You usually misinterpret my post and refuse to narrow any discussion to the point you are forced to understand my position.
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
You can rely on needing beyond a reasonable doubt levels of proof to avoid acknowledging what is going on if that is what it takes.
Nope! You seem to confuse being specific on an issue with the level of doubt. Reasonable people cannot even determine the “doubt” of a position until it is defined well enough. You don’t seem so encumbered
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
I'm just not following you down that rat hole.
It is only a rat hole if your position falls apart when examined. Maybe that is why you refuse?
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
I draw conclusions from what I see knowing all sources are biased.
You draw biased conclusions based on your preconceived position, and then-back fill your head to protect yourself from being wrong.
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
My point has been that the level of intensity with this problem (What SPECIFIC problem) likely means it will come to a head within the life/scope/time frame of this thread (say, over the next 6-12 months) (soft time line) so we will all have a lot more in the way of answers. We will see.
Whatever. All you actually said was; “SOMETHING is going to happen SOMETIMES and when it does I can claim I was right!” Goes to your general wishy-washy thought process.



Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
On a related note
I don’t car to discuss “related notes” with you until you can discuss the current ‘note’ with clarity. As an example:
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
On a related note to things that are broken because we have lost our way and are making bad decisions-
Kavanaugh says he was not involved in any of the Bush White House toruture conversations during a Senate confirmation hearing on his appointment to a Federal Judgeship.
Kavanaugh's appointment is confirmed.
Reports come out around a year later that Kavanaugh may actually have been involved in those discussions.
At least one Senator follows up with Kavanaugh and Kavanaugh has not responded (and he has had 11 years to do so).
Senators ask for supporting (Bush White House) documents on the subject before meeting with Kavanaugh. The trump White House refuses.
This paragraph moves a supposition to an assumption of fact without providing ANY proof. It is bad logic.


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Old 08-10-2018, 12:34 PM
  #40  
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Reposting because you OBVIOUSLY confused a request for clarity for a desire to read yet another one of your meandering diatribes.
Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Come on N_J, now I know you are having me on.
You got your guy. Let's just hang out here a while and see how things turn out. Neither of us is likely to be 100% correct but one of us is going to be close.
Go back and read the opening post. I am already darn near spot on.

If you care to argue, please do so with clarity.
SO, my opening post has 4 specific issues.
I am not asking you to oppose all 4, only one. (To your favor and for clarity)
and I am limiting myself to discussing ONLY the one you pick. (Again, to your favor and for clarity)
If you are unable to show where even a single point of mine is incorrect, how the heck can you go on about your assertions being more likely correct than mine?
SO, how is this "going down a rabbit hole"? (which seems to be YOUR style of shifting topics)
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:50 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
1) Was better than all the alternatives
2) He remains better than the alternatives.
3) The positive results of his actions far outweigh the negative.
4) Most of the negatives presented are about words, not actions
5) I don't need to "love" a politician to grasp #1, #2, #2, and #4 above.
6) It is fun watching people who hate Trump try to build logical excuses for why and repeatedly fail. (Ok, this is not pragmatic, but is extremely entertaining)

Fair enough-
Both candidates were morally corrupt.
Hillary supported Bill by attacking women attempting to bring Bill's behavior out in the light. Had it not been for a blue dress, she would likely have prevailed. Hillary also purposefully subverted her obligations to preserve all official communication by having a her email go to a server under her control. Without regard for the criminality of those (or other actions/issues/failures), her actions should have resulted in being run out of politics.
Trump, well, if you do not get it by now there is no explaining it to you. Raw ******* a **** star and presidential material do not belong in the same sentence.

Both candidates were financially corrupt.
The Clintons have produced nothing yet they went from in debt with Bill's legal bills to being worth in the hundred million dollar plus range. It would appear as though there was influence peddling with the fall off in foundation revenue following the election loss backing that up.
Trump went from a bankruptcy king to having disposable income in a down economy. Reputable first world banks will have nothing to do with him yet the single largest Russian money laundering bank is his largest lender. and on and on

Both candidates lie as easily as they breath, one is concerned about getting caught at it a bit more than the other.

One candidate would almost assuredly resulted in more of the same in Washington with stability and a known trajectory.

The other candidate was a loose cannon that cared more about himself then anything else including the country where he lives.

One candidate sees himself as a Russian oligarch and likely desires the ability to banish, vanquish or even kill those that disagree with him.

One candidate gives you time to fix what is broken with the system. The other will do permanent damage to the presidency and our country. For a thinking person with clear vision, Trump is a mistake you do not make.

Item 2
Nope, Trump has proven that he is as incompetent and corrupt as he presents.
- Pulling out of the climate agreement and denying the threat of global warming. Its like saying smoking does not endanger your health. The science is clear. In addition, no rational person would take the risk for short term gain.
- N. Korea He got played. He put KJU on the national stage while unilaterally terminating military exercises designed to contain NK's conventional forces all in exchange for some remains and a promise to "de-nuclearize". I put it in quotes because the term likely means one thing to the NKs and a different thing to the US.
- Iran Trump pulled out without any plan to deal with the underlying problem. All we did was pull out of an agreement without cause and without the support of our partners in that agreement. Trump did, however, stick a finger in Obama's eye which was likely the idea all along.
- Syria Turn it over to the Russians. I'm not for nation building but Trump never had a secret plan to defeat ISIS.... Actually, he did. Change the subject and the news coverage will move on. Viola, no more ISIS.
There are more examples but, if you want to debate the reality of each of the above presenting them will do no good.

Item 3
Nope. and this is where time is on my side.
Any schmuck can stimulate the economy by removing regulation. I've addressed this in earlier posts. It starts off good but ends badly. We have regulation because we choose to live by the rule of law and not like some third world banana republic or, worse, Russians. The bill will come due for all of this crap just like the bill came due in Venezuela. Enjoy the trump bump while you can.

Item 4
Nope
He's been around long enough to actually have tried to be president which means we have some actions from which to asses his capabilities. He has divided people for his own gain. He surrounds himself with liers, crooks and thieves. He is incompetent and attracts incompetent people. He plays on the most base of people's instincts and nature all for his own gain. And, words matter. He damages our relationships around the world with those words.

Item 5
A rational person would see that they are being played by a con man. Life has gotten too easy. We can actually make a mistake like Trump and may even get away with it for a while. The long term damage will have a toll all the time he is telling his idiot followers that he is making America great again. Actually, I think he has said it is now great again now that he is running things. People that are buying this crap have no appreciation for the hard work from both liberal and conservatives to create the world they live in. It's like they are dip stick trust fund babies; easy come, easy go. Most things in life worth having require hard work.

Item 6
I could care less about the 35% on either side that follow their dear leader and take joy about the other side's hair being on fire. People watch WWE, the Apprentice and the like for entertainment. I see your comment as nothing different. Its mind candy for the ignorant.

I can not believe I wasted that much time addressing your initial post. I never bothered to read it as I knew what it said simply by your other posts. The trick for trumpsters (and clintonites) is to steer the conversation towards a defensive rationalization of the irrational. Well, I did it but there is a cost.

You must be completely brain dead not to see what is right in front of you or you choose not to see if for reasons of your own. Just like I did not need to read your initial post to understand what you wrote and were trying to do, I do not need to see a heal to toe beyond a reasonable doubt unassailable factual proof that trump is what he is to know what he is. I've been around long enough and paid enough attention to know what dog crap is, identify it before I get to it and then not step into when I get there.

So, continue on with your support for whatever reasons you are doing so. Time is on my side in that this will all come out in the wash. As stated earlier, I just hope I can catch enough of what will happen before it happens to protect mine as the US plays this idiotic game with its inheritance and its future.

Thank Gawd for edit because I simply can not type (or spell).

Last edited by lolachampcar; 08-10-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:30 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Fair enough-
Both candidates were morally corrupt.
Hillary supported Bill by attacking women attempting to bring Bill's behavior out in the light. Had it not been for a blue dress, she would likely have prevailed. Hillary also purposefully subverted her obligations to preserve all official communication by having a her email go to a server under her control. Without regard for the criminality of those (or other actions/issues/failures), her actions should have resulted in being run out of politics.
Trump, well, if you do not get it by now there is no explaining it to you. Raw ******* a **** star and presidential material do not belong in the same sentence.

Both candidates were financially corrupt.
The Clintons have produced nothing yet they went from in debt with Bill's legal bills to being worth in the hundred million dollar plus range. It would appear as though there was influence peddling with the fall off in foundation revenue following the election loss backing that up.
Trump went from a bankruptcy king to having disposable income in a down economy. Reputable first world banks will have nothing to do with him yet the single largest Russian money laundering bank is his largest lender. and on and on

Both candidates lie as easily as they breath, one is concerned about getting caught at it a bit more than the other.

One candidate would almost assuredly resulted in more of the same in Washington with stability and a known trajectory.

The other candidate was a loose cannon that cared more about himself then anything else including the country where he lives.

One candidate sees himself as a Russian oligarch and likely desires the ability to banish, vanquish or even kill those that disagree with him.

One candidate gives you time to fix what is broken with the system. The other will do permanent damage to the presidency and our country. For a thinking person with clear vision, Trump is a mistake you do not make.

Item 2
Nope, Trump has proven that he is as incompetent and corrupt as he presents.
- Pulling out of the climate agreement and denying the threat of global warming. Its like saying smoking does not endanger your health. The science is clear. In addition, no rational person would take the risk for short term gain.
- N. Korea He got played. He put KJU on the national stage while unilaterally terminating military exercises designed to contain NK's conventional forces all in exchange for some remains and a promise to "de-nuclearize". I put it in quotes because the term likely means one thing to the NKs and a different thing to the US.
- Iran Trump pulled out without any plan to deal with the underlying problem. All we did was pull out of an agreement without cause and without the support of our partners in that agreement. Trump did, however, stick a finger in Obama's eye which was likely the idea all along.
- Syria Turn it over to the Russians. I'm not for nation building but Trump never had a secret plan to defeat ISIS.... Actually, he did. Change the subject and the news coverage will move on. Viola, no more ISIS.
There are more examples but, if you want to debate the reality of each of the above presenting them will do no good.

Item 3
Nope. and this is where time is on my side.
Any schmuck can stimulate the economy by removing regulation. I've addressed this in earlier posts. It starts off good but ends badly. We have regulation because we choose to live by the rule of law and not like some third world banana republic or, worse, Russians. The bill will come due for all of this crap just like the bill came due in Venezuela. Enjoy the trump bump while you can.

Item 4
Nope
He's been around long enough to actually have tried to be president which means we have some actions from which to asses his capabilities. He has divided people for his own gain. He surrounds himself with liers, crooks and thieves. He is incompetent and attracts incompetent people. He plays on the most base of people's instincts and nature all for his own gain. And, words matter. He damages our relationships around the world with those words.

Item 5
A rational person would see that they are being played by a con man. Life has gotten too easy. We can actually make a mistake like Trump and may even get away with it for a while. The long term damage will have a toll all the time he is telling his idiot followers that he is making America great again. Actually, I think he has said it is now great again now that he is running things. People that are buying this crap have no appreciation for the hard work from both liberal and conservatives to create the world they live in. It's like they are dip stick trust fund babies; easy come, easy go. Most things in life worth having require hard work.

Item 6
I could care less about the 35% on either side that follow their dear leader and take joy about the other side's hair being on fire. People watch WWE, the Apprentice and the like for entertainment. I see your comment as nothing different. Its mind candy for the ignorant.

I can not believe I wasted that much time addressing your initial post. I never bothered to read it as I knew what it said simply by your other posts. The trick for trumpsters (and clintonites) is to steer the conversation towards a defensive rationalization of the irrational. Well, I did it but there is a cost.

You must be completely brain dead not to see what is right in front of you or you choose not to see if for reasons of your own. Just like I did not need to read your initial post to understand what you wrote and were trying to do, I do not need to see a heal to toe beyond a reasonable doubt unassailable factual proof that trump is what he is to know what he is. I've been around long enough and paid enough attention to know what dog crap is, identify it before I get to it and then not step into when I get there.

So, continue on with your support for whatever reasons you are doing so. Time is on my side in that this will all come out in the wash. As stated earlier, I just hope I can catch enough of what will happen before it happens to protect mine as the US plays this idiotic game with its inheritance and its future.

Thank Gawd for edit because I simply can not type (or spell).
I think you need to understand what being pragmatic means.
I stand by my assertion that I am correct in my assessment.
Remember when it comes to being clear and precise, usually less is more. Give it a try.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:38 AM
  #43  
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Bait
Say something
Respond to me
Why are you not taking my post seriously
You are not a good person because you are not paying attention to me

Ok. fair enough. I owe you that.

Hah, got you. You took a bunch of time to respond to me. I wasted your time

Yea, you got me. You are soooooo good.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:09 AM
  #44  
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A lot of fallacies in peoples thinking. Again, not a fluke he’s in office. I love all these people who think they are superior or smarter than trump.
youre not and never will be.

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Old 08-13-2018, 09:55 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Bait
Say something
Respond to me
Why are you not taking my post seriously
You are not a good person because you are not paying attention to me

Ok. fair enough. I owe you that.

Hah, got you. You took a bunch of time to respond to me. I wasted your time

Yea, you got me. You are soooooo good.

Can someone translate this for me?

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Old 09-12-2018, 08:14 AM
  #46  
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I'm going to take the liberty of rounding a 32% increase in the national debt up to a 1/3 rd increase. And the hits just keep coming.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:29 AM
  #47  
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:26 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
I'm going to take the liberty of rounding a 32% increase in the national debt up to a 1/3 rd increase. And the hits just keep coming.
...not really on topic with thread title... or is that why you like trump...? or just posting in opposition?

...tbd if predictions about how much the trump admin will add comes close to how much the obama admin (and others) actually added... so far your rounded up 33% for trump comes no where near obama's fifth largest 74%...
Barack Obama: Under President Obama, the national debt grew the most dollar-wise. He added $8.588 trillion. This 74 percent increase was the fifth-largest. Obama's budgets included the economic stimulus package. It added $787 billion by cutting taxes, extending unemployment benefits, and funding public works projects.- the balance, sept 8, 2018
...but simple percentages are deceiving here as the overall debt was much lower in admins past... as reagan's percentage increase was 186% - and he only added 1.86 trillion over eight years... compared to obama's 74% increase while adding almost five times MORE (8.588 trillion) than reagan... - source

...besides, takes money to address the many failing and floundering matters the country faces...

Last edited by PatrixUSA; 09-12-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:04 PM
  #49  
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18 to 21 isnt 33%
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:15 PM
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Good math DG but 32% can be rounded up to a 1/3rd.

Each successive administration is heaping ever more on the national debt with either spending increases, tax cuts or both. Voters are the problem, not the politicians that are accurately reflecting who we are.
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