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Crowdfunding the "People's Wall"

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Crowdfunding the "People's Wall"

Old 12-26-2018, 11:36 AM
  #101  
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Why the wall must be stopped;

Political forces on both sides are working to stop that wall.
The Dems are trying to prevent any funding, and the political Republicans are willing to settle for a compromise that delays the decision and most likely will prevent it from ever being funded fully.

The reason has nothing to do with "that Wall".

It is about preventing Trump from fulfilling a campaign promise.
Should the wall be built and the campaign promise fulfilled, it will forever change politics by setting a new level of expectation, that politicians from both sides know they can not meet.,
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Old 12-26-2018, 05:42 PM
  #102  
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Rep. Jackson-Lee is actually sponsoring a bill making ANY border illegal to construct.

H.R.7332 - Protect American Taxpayers and Secure Border Act
(a) In general.—No taxpayer funds may be obligated or expended to build a wall or barrier intended to impede travel between Mexico and the United States.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:12 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Rep. Jackson-Lee is actually sponsoring a bill making ANY border illegal to construct.

H.R.7332 - Protect American Taxpayers and Secure Border Act
Welcome to clown-world, friends. Enjoy your stay.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:12 PM
  #104  
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We should just open the border up at California and put a wall around that state. Continue to give the same amount of state funding + inflation and see how they do. I'd donate to the gofundme wall if that was the plan without a doubt haha
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:30 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Value returned to us. (I'll stick to the purely financial, as we can all argue the issues of security)
1) Purchase of US manufactured goods and services.
2) Loans/loan guarantees to US based companies operating in Israel.
3) Return on loans made to Israel and Israeli companies.
4) Technological advances provided to the US (and the world)
1) the US has a trade deficit with Israel of about $6-$10 billion yearly. And we pay them money for this
2) Like which ones?
3) you know as well as I do those loans will never be repaid to us.
4) What technological advances have the Israelis provided us? That's pretty much a 1 way street, and I'll tell you traffic isn't flowing in our direction

It is far more than "friendship".
You're right, I'd call it "parasitic".

Well to start with the vast majority comes right back to the US in IDF military spending on US produced goods and services.
Like what? Most of what the IDF uses is made indigenously.

As I already said, you assertion of "Zero Return" is factually inaccurate (not even considering security issues)
Not sure what aspect of our security Israel is helping us with. Like wiretapping us and selling the tech we give them to our enemies? That really doesn't seem like it helps America to me.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
1) the US has a trade deficit with Israel of about $6-$10 billion yearly. And we pay them money for this Billions of dollars in Jet aircraft alone
2) Like which ones? Google the list
3) you know as well as I do those loans will never be repaid to us. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...tees-to-israel
4) What technological advances have the Israelis provided us? That's pretty much a 1 way street, and I'll tell you traffic isn't flowing in our direction Again, just Google

Like what? Most of what the IDF uses is made indigenously. Absolutely not true.
You do seem to stick with eth same arguments those who dislike Israel spout!
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:04 PM
  #107  
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No, once you factor in the trade deficit, plus the military aid GIVEN to them, they aren't spending billions in our economy. And nice article about extending the loan terms, lmao. Why should we do that? Why should we be essentially co-signing loans with Israel, that's silly.

And yeah, from the Tavor rifle to the Merkava tank, most of their gear is made in Israel, actually.
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:39 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
No, once you factor in the trade deficit, plus the military aid GIVEN to them, they aren't spending billions in our economy. And nice article about extending the loan terms, lmao. Why should we do that? Why should we be essentially co-signing loans with Israel, that's silly.

And yeah, from the Tavor rifle to the Merkava tank, most of their gear is made in Israel, actually.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...ore-f-35-jets/
Israel receives over $3 billion a year from the US in military aid, and early this year the two countries agreed on a new aid package that will see Israel receive $3.8 billion annually through 2028, the vast majority of which must be used on purchases from American defense companies.
You just don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:21 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...ore-f-35-jets/


You just don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
The F35, a model program from the very begin lmao... So we are giving them money, to spend with us... So, we are still giving then things for zero return...
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:34 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
The F35, a model program from the very begin lmao... So we are giving them money, to spend with us... So, we are still giving then things for zero return...
The F35 is the current program, but not the first.

Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
The F35, a model program from the very begin lmao... So we are giving them money, to spend with us... So, we are still giving then things for zero return...
That would be true IF there is no value to US employment, US exports, Cost efficiencies due to higher production numbers for each model plane, additional spending on spares parts and support services.
However; each of these has a value to us, and there are others not addressed. (Such as design feedback from actual combat use)

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Old 12-27-2018, 02:27 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
The F35 is the current program, but not the first.


That would be true IF there is no value to US employment, US exports, Cost efficiencies due to higher production numbers for each model plane, additional spending on spares parts and support services.
However; each of these has a value to us, and there are others not addressed. (Such as design feedback from actual combat use)
You are talking about people that used our money to build their border wall, and turn around and have their people in the US block us from doing the same. Just keep that in mind.

With allies like that, who needs enemies!
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:53 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
You are talking about people that used our money to build their border wall, and turn around and have their people in the US block us from doing the same.
Oh yes, let me check my secret "JEW NEWS" to see what I should support this month!

Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
With allies like that, who needs enemies!
Originally Posted by G_Money
I'm not anti-Israel or anything like that,
Sure . . . . We have heard it all before!

Originally Posted by G_Money
They've also sold missile tech we gave them to China (MIM-104 Patriot comes to mind), and have even attacked us in attempt to draw us in to wars before (USS Liberty)...
Ahhh! Two old favorites from every good Anti-Semitic web site!
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:33 PM
  #113  
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Am I wrong? Did these things not happen?

And honestly I'm not anti Israel. They can do whatever they want in their own country.

My problem comes from us bankrolling it and letting them take advantage.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:35 AM
  #114  
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1. We helped create the modern nation of Israel.
2. It is our closest ally in the Middle East, and one of our closest in the world. You can probably find their track record of voting with the U.S. on the UN website, or Google.
3. We have vested interest in the defense of Israel. We both benefit, because they actually use the tech daily that we have helped create and we can verify/improve results. There is a ton of mutual cooperation that exists between us.
4. Here is the actual bill. There is a lot more to it than you might think....

https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek...10/S2497-1.pdf

Last edited by MarcusDubya77; 12-28-2018 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:00 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Am I wrong? Did these things not happen?
Both of your "Way too breathlessly reported" and repeated events have been well disputed.
Much like Global Warming, you can find lots of "sources": to support your beliefs.

Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
And honestly I'm not anti Israel.
Yes, I know. You don't hate Jews, just Zionists! (Been down this road far too many times)

Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
My problem comes from us bankrolling it and letting them take advantage.
I would hazard a guess that we get more back on our Israeli investment than many US government programs.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:21 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post


I would hazard a guess that we get more back on our Israeli investment than many US government programs.
Like an 18 year war in Iraq?
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Like an 18 year war in Iraq?
Oh, yes, we are only there to defend Israel! LOL!
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:25 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Oh, yes, we are only there to defend Israel! LOL!
I know, it's pretty messed up. Just like Syria. Strong Shiite-run Arab nations? Not around my Israel!
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:37 AM
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What??? Sorry, but that is just totally wrong...
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
What??? Sorry, but that is just totally wrong...
It is always there. Just under the surface.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
It is always there. Just under the surface.
??? We are not in Iraq to protect Israel...
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
??? We are not in Iraq to protect Israel...
Yes, I know. I mean the latent anti-Semitism is always just under the surface.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Yes, I know. I mean the latent anti-Semitism is always just under the surface.
Ahhhh....Sorry...
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:40 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
??? We are not in Iraq to protect Israel...
So who's interests are we advancing there, then? Almost 20 years later? I mean, even if the mission was regime change, Saddam has been gone a long time.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
So who's interests are we advancing there, then? Almost 20 years later? I mean, even if the mission was regime change, Saddam has been gone a long time.
The problem is sometime after WW2 we lost the will to "nation build"

None of our "wars" would have lasted as long or ended as badly if we just went in and said;
"It seems you don't know how to play nice with the world.
Now that you screwed up big enough for us to show up, we will get you all set up with a functional democracy, some suitable infrastructure and then let you run the place.
You screw up again, and we will be back and run you as a territory!
Any questions?"
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