What did you do your R Class today?
We have a thread like this in a SL R129 forum I visit. It's a good thread with members posting what they have had done or did to their car. Great for ideas and some DIY stuff. Maybe it will get some steam here. I'll start.
Had the transmission fluid and filter changed out and drained and put fresh fluid in both diffs since there was no record of this ever having being done in the service records provided with the car. My trans guy said the fluid looked very good and free of any metal shavings and same goes for the diff. I wasn't having any issues just preventive maintenance. Total cost out the door $340. |
Took it to my INDY and found the turbo shaft broke! WTF! (2011 R350 bluetec)
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Broken turbo shaft? Talk about a bad day! Mines been at the dealer all week getting rid of the check engine light...... Then it goes back for the trans later this month.... Ugh... I just want to drive it again..
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CheChe is that still under warranty or an extended warranty?
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My Indy is trying to see if it is covered. I do not have an extended warranty. From what I can tell, the turbo is not covered under the Emissions Control System 80,000/8yr warranty. I can't even figure out how this would happen.
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Went to the MB dealer, dropped off a dozen donuts and picked up the parking brake release cable and while browsing decided to buy some valve stems caps too. It's nice to buy parts at wholesale prices so the dozen donuts should keep the guys at the parts counter happy which makes my wallet a little happier. The discount on the two parts alone covered the donuts and then some. :D
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6652400)
Went to the MB dealer, dropped off a dozen donuts and picked up the parking brake release cable and while browsing decided to buy some valve stems caps too.
Man I miss that car.... LOL... |
3 Attachment(s)
Today I swapped out all the interior lights, license plate and side view mirror puddle lights with LED bulbs. Had done this on my R129 SL and am as happy with the results on the W251 R as I was last time. All this for under $17.
Update: Thought I had all the bulbs fitted and found it odd I still had 2 bulbs of the round style left over. Had forgotten the Vanity mirrors and glove box, but these are festoon style bulbs so the seller is off on quantity/style. Have contacted seller to see if he will resolve this issue as I am short 3 festoon bulbs and have 2 extra of the blade/push in style bulbs. For the R class you need 11 festoons and 8 blade/push-in bulbs. Festoons: 4 Doors, 2 Footwells, 2 Vanity Mirror, 1 Glove Box and 2 for license plate. Blade/Push in: 2 Front Dome, 2 Mirror Puddle lights, 2 Rear Door near grab handles, 1 Rear Dome light, 1 Cargo area. Will update once I hear back from seller. |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6656263)
Today I swapped out all the interior lights, license plate and side view mirror puddle lights with LED bulbs. Had done this on my R129 SL and am as happy with the results on the W251 R as I was last time. All this for under $17.
Update: Thought I had all the bulbs fitted and found it odd I still had 2 bulbs of the round style left over. Had forgotten the Vanity mirrors and glove box, but these are festoon style bulbs so the seller is off on quantity/style. Have contacted seller to see if he will resolve this issue as I am short 3 festoon bulbs and have 2 extra of the blade/push in style bulbs. For the R class you need 11 festoons and 8 blade/push-in bulbs. Festoons: 4 Doors, 2 Footwells, 2 Vanity Mirror, 1 Glove Box and 2 for license plate. Blade/Push in: 2 Front Dome, 2 Mirror Puddle lights, 2 Rear Door near grab handles, 1 Rear Dome light, 1 Cargo area. Will update once I hear back from seller. Pete, Any cluster warning on the license plate bulbs? I did my front parking lights (194 or W5W bulbs) and load resistors were needed. |
Asian R350, no errors or warning lights whatsoever. I will post the link to where I purchased from but as I mentioned seller has the incorrect amount of each bulb in the listing. I have contacted him/her and explained how many of each is needed for the W251 R-Class and am awaiting a response. In the meantime here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-x-Error-F...BWMyuK&vxp=mtr
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6656492)
Asian R350, no errors or warning lights whatsoever. I will post the link to where I purchased from but as I mentioned seller has the incorrect amount of each bulb in the listing. I have contacted him/her and explained how many of each is needed for the W251 R-Class and am awaiting a response. In the meantime here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-x-Error-F...BWMyuK&vxp=mtr
Cool, thanks. I have most interior light bulbs replaced. I had replaced license plate bullbs and they had warning on my cluster and did not want to install the load resistors because I have to remove the hatch cover. Just placed an order from that seller $16.02. |
Seller has been in contact and sending out remaining bulbs. I did notice the license plate was a bit tight so I told him that the 36mm festoons may be a better fit than the 39mm he sent so he is also sending those out as a courtesy.
Asian350 I mentioned that a forum member had also placed an order and that he should try to send the correct style and quantity. He said your order had already shipped out but that he would also be sending you a second package with the remaining bulbs. :y |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6657623)
Seller has been in contact and sending out remaining bulbs. I did notice the license plate was a bit tight so I told him that the 36mm festoons may be a better fit than the 39mm he sent so he is also sending those out as a courtesy.
Asian350 I mentioned that a forum member had also placed an order and that he should try to send the correct style and quantity. He said your order had already shipped out but that he would also be sending you a second package with the remaining bulbs. :y Pete, you are the man, so glad that you are on this quiet R forum. |
AsianR350 I would wait and see if in fact he sends the secondary package since as I mentioned the 36mm festoons will fit better in the holders for the license plate. I don't know how many bulbs you already converted to LED but the good thing about these is no resistors are needed you just pop them in and you are good to go.
Would like to add these also but I don't like the chrome on the mirror housing lip. If it didn't have that chrome lip I would have already ordered a set. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171062104493?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6657674)
AsianR350 I would wait and see if in fact he sends the secondary package since as I mentioned the 36mm festoons will fit better in the holders for the license plate. I don't know how many bulbs you already converted to LED but the good thing about these is no resistors are needed you just pop them in and you are good to go.
Would like to add these also but I don't like the chrome on the mirror housing lip. If it didn't have that chrome lip I would have already ordered a set. Mercedes W251 05 08 R Class Silver Arrow Type LED Side Mirror Cover R300 350 500 | eBay |
Even over the chrome? Its probably just a fake chrome plastic trim so you are probably right but just another added expense.
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Picked up my R, and have to take it back..... They messed with something and now my speedo is reading in km/h, not mph.... Another reason for me to hate dealerships....
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Replaced low beam halogens (pain in the ass job), and found the insulation on the wiring to the lamps cracked and disintegrating, literally leaving bare wires. Slopped Liquid 'Lectric Tape (tm) on them and some plastic electrical tape and shoved the **** back into the housing (tested before closing the 'porthole', of course).
So, is it just the headlight housing, or is it ALL the wiring? 2007 R320 w/ 100k miles. It's been a real lemon car in the 5 years we've owned it. But when it's running, we love it... there's nothing like it. So, that's what I did to my R today. |
Jerryswfl did you replace the bulbs with some different type or standard bulbs? Hopefully the wiring being the way it is is only confined to inside the headlight area. The other MB I own had issues in the 93-95 MY that the engine and TB harness simply disintegrate after a few years. Some type of bio-degradable insulation that starts breaking down way too early.
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Hey Pete, I installed Sylvania Xtravision several (3+-?) years ago, and was satisfied with the brighter output than the yellow oem. Recently I thought they seemed dimmer, as bulbs do (or is it my old age? I'm getting dimmer, for sure), so this time I went with the Sylvania Silverstar Ultra. Still 55 watt H7, so there shouldn't be a heat issue.
During internet searching yesterday I saw some mentions of a Hella headlamp fixture wiring issue, so I hope that's all it is. Plenty of tales of older (90s) MB wire/insulation issues online. As I said, I coated and wrapped the wires (as much as is possible in the 'mouse-hole access), then separated them after I got the *#$! bulb into the socket, so there "shouldn't" be any shorting. :nix: I had an 87 Volvo for 24 years that had the exact same wire insulation issue, just thought the issue had been solved among auto mfgrs. Guess not. Didn't think to take pics...I was too p/o'd. And I didn't check any other wiring...too scared! |
Whenever one of the bulbs decide to go out I probably will be purchasing the PIAA Xtreme White Plus or their Night Techs. PIAA is a brand I trust, a bit pricey but very good quality.
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Finally installed my donor calipers/rotors
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...7ffc580b1e.jpg this weekend, (good news story). The standard brakes are just too small. My '08 R320 CDI has been in Germany for 2.5 years, it's a different driving experience here. I'm trying to LED convert my interior this weekend. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c8b7e153e3.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5e098aa673.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...2563a38811.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a4cdf03ef8.jpg |
I like the look but are they Brabus brakes or AMG brakes since they are stamped AMG?
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6657623)
Seller has been in contact and sending out remaining bulbs. I did notice the license plate was a bit tight so I told him that the 36mm festoons may be a better fit than the 39mm he sent so he is also sending those out as a courtesy.
Asian350 I mentioned that a forum member had also placed an order and that he should try to send the correct style and quantity. He said your order had already shipped out but that he would also be sending you a second package with the remaining bulbs. :y I'm interested in getting these LED bulbs. Apart from the look, I thought it should take much less battery power. Mine is getting weak, so any extended use without the engine on is a risk for the car not to start. Does it really consume less electricity? |
Originally Posted by Prerna
(Post 6686840)
I'm interested in getting these LED bulbs. Apart from the look, I thought it should take much less battery power. Mine is getting weak, so any extended use without the engine on is a risk for the car not to start. Does it really consume less electricity?
Unlike old cars.. a weak battery in a highly computerized car can and will wreak havoc on the electronics causing all kinds of faults to appear. Case in point.... I suspected my wife's R had a dying battery. I drove it to and from work for two days with leaving it on our charger.... On one trip home it started missing real bad and throwing a bunch of codes.... Replaced the battery the next day and everything was fine. If ignored a random or persistent miss fire can cause serious damage.. that is just one example. |
I agree the bulbs may pull less current but I doubt it will extend the life of the battery. Get a new battery before you run into issues.
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Will do...
I've read conflicting statement about changing the battery. Some say it can be done easily, while others mention that it is necessary to go to a MB dealer in order to reset the errors that will appear in the board after replacing the battery. Have you guys had any experience changing it by yourself? Doing it by MB here in Switzerland is going to cost a lot (min. 500 I'd say) |
I doubt you will have an issues. I've changed batteries in all of my Benz's. No issues yet. Shop around for a battery with a good warranty - they can crap out unexpectedly. There seems to have been a rash of defective batteries out there that were manufactured in the last couple years. I seem of have gotten one of them - brand new battery for my E-class lasted less than a year - wouldn't hold a charge over night. Replaced for free at Canadian Tire.
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For quite a few years now I have decided to simply go to the dealer to get a battery. Are they more expensive? Yes, but it just seems everything works a little better for me. I like marc hanna seemed to get batteries that didn't even come close to their warranty figures so decided to go to dealer for batteries. This goes for all my cars not just the Benz, Ford, Toyota, Infiniti and Mazda all got the same treatments.
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Yes you can change it yourself if you work on your own cars... but it is a PIA. Despite the instructions in the manual, you will need to unbolt the seat. There are threads here on doing it. No need to reset anything... I did mine in the parking lot of Autozone on the way to work. All settings and memory was retained.
Most important, since it is in a compartment in the passenger compartment it needs to be an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery. Standard wet batteries can burst and get acid in the compartment. Not good for the electronics and worse if it goes beyond that if you get my drift.... |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6687301)
For quite a few years now I have decided to simply go to the dealer to get a battery. Are they more expensive? Yes, but it just seems everything works a little better for me. I like marc hanna seemed to get batteries that didn't even come close to their warranty figures so decided to go to dealer for batteries. This goes for all my cars not just the Benz, Ford, Toyota, Infiniti and Mazda all got the same treatments.
I always change the batteries by myself for any cars that have owned except this Mercedes. My wife 's 2015 CLA 250 has the battery in the engine bay which should be easy to replace like any car. |
Last time I had a battery replaced at the dealer was about 10 years ago. They charged me $500 in total! About a month earlier I had my indie replace the battery in my other Benz, he charged me $150 total. Exact same battery in both vehicles. Both MB branded batteries.
In reference to the incident in my previous post: I boosted the car; then drove it to Canadian tire where I bought it; removed the battery in the parking lot (less than 5min); walked in with the old and out with the new; reinstalled and I was on my way. It would have taken longer to drive to the dealer and back. I admit, it would likely take longer to replace the battery in the R-class, but it can't be that much worse. |
Just to be clear, I go to the dealer to buy the battery not have it installed also. It'a usually very simple undoing 3-4 bolts at the most. The R poses a more difficult install but when the time comes I will give it a go on my own.
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6685725)
I like the look but are they Brabus brakes or AMG brakes since they are stamped AMG?
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Installed a new glow plug controller yesterday. There's a couple of plastic hose clamps on the bracket that were so brittle they just crumbled. I would recommend purchasing these in advance if you're going to swap out your controller.
I got the Dorman controller. It doesn't look as solid as the original, but it is more compact and I haven't heard anything bad about them. The originals should be treated like a consumable item: the elements inside are too fragile to last long-term |
Fixed navigation. Tried buying 2 different DVDs thinking that was the problem but it was the actual DVD drive that was bad. I know it's not the greatest navigation and anything on my iPhone is better but I just like to have everything functional.
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6695800)
Fixed navigation. Tried buying 2 different DVDs thinking that was the problem but it was the actual DVD drive that was bad. I know it's not the greatest navigation and anything on my iPhone is better but I just like to have everything functional.
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Yep. I had purchased two different 2014 map discs. Neither worked in my drive. I was able to snag a drive on eBay with a 2005 map for $160. Installed today and placed the 2005 map disc that came with it and quickly had navigation up and running. Went inside and grabbed one of the 2014 map discs and popped it in. After a short software update it also was working, grabbed the other 2014 disc and that worked also. So now I am keeping one of the 2014 maps I purchased and will try to sell the other 2014 disc as well as the 2005 that came with the working DVD drive.
I didn't want to put them up for sale before because I wasn't sure they even worked but now that I have tested and confirmed they work I feel comfortable selling them onto someone else. |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6695843)
Yep. I had purchased two different 2014 map discs. Neither worked in my drive. I was able to snag a drive on eBay with a 2005 map for $160. Installed today and placed the 2005 map disc that came with it and quickly had navigation up and running. Went inside and grabbed one of the 2014 map discs and popped it in. After a short software update it also was working, grabbed the other 2014 disc and that worked also. So now I am keeping one of the 2014 maps I purchased and will try to sell the other 2014 disc as well as the 2005 that came with the working DVD drive.
I didn't want to put them up for sale before because I wasn't sure they even worked but now that I have tested and confirmed they work I feel comfortable selling them onto someone else. |
I am trying to get $130 shipped. Have it in the for sale forum. Trying to recoup some of the money I spent so far.
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Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6695916)
I am trying to get $130 shipped. Have it in the for sale forum. Trying to recoup some of the money I spent so far.
Pete S. It was nice to meet you tonight. The 2014 DVD Navigation disc works perfect in my 08 R350. |
Where can I get the 2014 nav update for my 09?
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There is a 2015 update also, which you can get from the dealer.
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6703308)
There is a 2015 update also, which you can get from the dealer.
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Originally Posted by benzR350NYC
(Post 6703394)
Stealership no beuno
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If you buy it from a Canadian dealership it converts to only $158USD :)
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Over two years owning done:
1.Replace leakig seals for oil heatexchanger(long term owners up to at list 2009-2010 know this problem)( Job very big so done by indy shop) 2. Limp mode fixed ( one of possible problem) Replace DPF Pressure sensor (many thanks limp mode post) 3.Replace sagging rear air springs to Arknott ones. 4.Change fog H7 bulbs to high output LEDs.Very tricky job due MB adapter 5.Replace HID D2S bulbs (very disappointed with design of headlights,very difficult to replace |
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6657623)
Seller has been in contact and sending out remaining bulbs. I did notice the license plate was a bit tight so I told him that the 36mm festoons may be a better fit than the 39mm he sent so he is also sending those out as a courtesy.
Asian350 I mentioned that a forum member had also placed an order and that he should try to send the correct style and quantity. He said your order had already shipped out but that he would also be sending you a second package with the remaining bulbs. :y
About my battery, I still didn't change it as it's working well so far. But I ordered a tool to measure the voltage from the cigarette lighter plug. If I see the voltage is too low then I'll change it without hesitation. |
Hmm.... what did I do to my R class?????
Traded it in on a new Nissan Altima... convinced my wife she doesn't need a bus... I do all the household errands in my big ol Honda... Why have something so big that we really only use once or twice a year... With her only driving maybe 10,000 miles a year... I won't have to worry about any repairs and her payment is $75 a month cheaper.... Woo Hoo... |
I did an oil change on Saturday. Next weekend, injector seal and new serpentine belt.
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where to start with this car it's rolling with 136000 kms...09 R320
last weekend :eek: -oil cooler seals(terrible job did it on my ML last year and the ML was way easier it's soo tight behind that turbo on the R!) -installed adblue bypass (after spending big $$ on pump not too long ago I decided that the heater was just not worth it..ps works great 15 minute job) -changed battery under seat -changed swirl motor while oil cooler job was being done (it was severly coated in oil as well) Only problem left on the car is the random "key does not belong to vehicle" and momentary no starts that the car has been coming up with....Looks like a trip to the dealer for a new EIS sounds like another fun bill! at this point I actually still slightly "like" the car... |
Yesterday- found a power steering fluid leak. Big mess! Wasnt the tank o-ring or the pump shaft seal. The casing is leaking. Cleaned it , made a 90 mi drive and bottom of the pump had drips and oiled up the A/C comp again.
Today- ordered parts- pump, tank, c-clip(spare), o-ring, high pressure seals for the banjo fitting. I still like my R----147000 mi and this is really the first equipment failure besides the rear air bags. |
Originally Posted by ghenry
(Post 6717153)
Yesterday- found a power steering fluid leak. Big mess! Wasnt the tank o-ring or the pump shaft seal. The casing is leaking. Cleaned it , made a 90 mi drive and bottom of the pump had drips and oiled up the A/C comp again.
Today- ordered parts- pump, tank, c-clip(spare), o-ring, high pressure seals for the banjo fitting. I still like my R----147000 mi and this is really the first equipment failure besides the rear air bags. Did this on our R so let me know if you run into any questions. |
Nothing big here, just washed it, finally... Been gone for the better part of the month, and was very glad to get that black paint shiny again!
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Has anyone who did the led swap get a license plate bulb error msg. Im having trouble with these 2 bulbs
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You need to add a resistor.
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Intro my new family hauler
Needed a family hauler (4 kids) that the wife could drive, that wasn't a big SUV (previous was a Suburban she couldn't drive) or a minivan (in Aus we've had 2 Sedonas and an Odyssey) and that she'd like.
When you've got that type of criteria... there ain't much left that has 6-7 seats and it was up between the XC90 and R Class... (and the X5 with 7 seats but scratched that idea once i saw the size of the third row!) and the first time she saw the R Class (at a dealer), she didn't like it's look very much :( ... But when i saw this particular R500 (after seeing a few R350's that didn't quite pan out), i just picked it up before her 'seal of approval' Lets just say, after being introduced, and the first drive, she loves it (thank god). 2006 R500 with 112k miles... with a full set of paperwork all the way back to window sticker and MB loan papers :eek:, inc front airmatic replacements 20k ago and compressor done at 10k ago... immaculately clean (cargo curtain brand still, everything still there like trunk curtain, emergency medical etc), stock and drives great. Options on her are awesome (keyless, folding mirrors, memory drivers, heated front and back seats, wood steering, pano roof, parktronic, contour seats, etc) but at times perplexing (first R class of the half dozen i saw that DOESN"T have powered trunk??) Ordered some wet weather mats for the third row, to complete the existing OEM rubber set that it came with...(and all sitting on the OEM carpet mats still!) replaced the original dealers plate frames ... couple of other minor cosmetics and nothing left to do which saddens me a little. (i like working on cars) Trying to work out how best to add a reverse camera and keep it as oem as possible ... headunit is an NTG2 with Nav (if someone could confirm for me that'd be awesome, i'm a bit confused by all the variations ...) and apparently no video-in. Replacing the headunit is painful because of the HK system (from what i've read...). So still hunting around for a solution. BT would be nice, but not necessary and i've checked, no 'prewire' hold in the centre console etc. Oh and planning to add DRL's ... (but again, nothing loud and abrasive, and as oem as i can be with it) Had intended to avoid the airmatic as per general consensus but my first question to the previous owner was if it HAD been replaced and when and what milage. All of which substantiated by the MB dealership paperwork, and at the asking price, was already cushioned against my budget enough for me to factor in it's next set! Looking forward to spending time and meeting you guys in the W251 forums now as well as my normal W203 :) :zoom: |
06 R500 with 120K
What I've done since purchased just over a month ago. Starting with most recent fix:
Radiator and Fan assembly replacement (bcx fan blade exploded) Replaced Driver door control module - broken buttons Replaced Valve cover gasket and PCV breather tubes Replaced Spark plugs Transmission fluid and filter changed. Oil changed I've took pics of the work I did if anybody is interested. |
I'm interested in seeing the pics & write up for the door control module fix.
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Driver control module removal
Originally Posted by jokerbuoy7011
(Post 6732909)
I'm interested in seeing the pics & write up for the door control module fix.
see post #61 |
try again
7 Attachment(s)
Maybe this will work.
pic001 - remove tweeter cover and insulation behind the cover pic002 - push the 2 'lock' 'unlock' buttons and use a needle nose pliers and gently pull the exposed center tab, at the same time release the 2 buttons. pic003 - behind the buttons is a torx bolt. I think it's T45. only bolt holding the panel, the rest of the fasteners are plastic. I used a putty knife around the edge of the panel to pop out the plastic fasteners. pic004 - use the interior handle and pull up and out, because in the center of the panel is a plastic retainer that sits on a metal handle. pic004 - when the panel pops out do not let go of the panel or pull it to far away from the door. You'll see 2 ribbon cable with blue and green ends. disconnect the two. pic005 - disconnect the wire cable pic006 - is a view of the inside of the panel. pic007 - peel back the felt where the module is located and remove 2 screws (red lines) and ribbon cable (yellow line). I did not use the 2 screws on the new module because it's a tight fit. And the next time I replace the module it would much easier. So far it's been working great. |
Put my summer rims back on today. Used my new 20V Dewalt High torque impact wrench and my new impact socket set.
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6736383)
Put my summer rims back on today. Used my new 20V Dewalt High torque impact wrench and my new impact socket set.
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Yup, that's the one. Sure makes taking your wheels off easy.
Gave her a wash and wax too: https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...bf90f98258.jpg |
Wooden steering
Wrong post, didn't find how to delete it. Please ignore.
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https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...fe309d3e9b.jpg
Picked her up yesterday at the dealership. 2013 R350 4Matic. Loaded with airmatic. |
Changed my power steering pump and reservoir. All parts were OEM MB ( my parts lady is the BEST!). Changed out antifreeze/ coolant also. Tomorrow is rear diff fluid drain/ fill (non 4matic).
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I didn't know you could even buy a non-4matic in North America
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6742831)
I didn't know you could even buy a non-4matic in North America
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6742831)
I didn't know you could even buy a non-4matic in North America
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This is an odd duck:
Gear shift knob broke this past Wednesday. I was at the carwash waiting my turn, got the signal and pressed the lever to 'D' and crack, the shift lever was hanging down in a vertical position--a clear snap off of the brass looking piece in the steering column. Here's some pix. I have the car an Indy repair shop waiting for the new part to come and be installed. Anyone ever hear of this happening? |
2007 R350 4matic w/pix of broken shift lever
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DRL's and lug covers
5 Attachment(s)
Put on DRL's on my R500... spent $20 and though not as bright as i would like, they're working well :)
the auto drl on/off was 7.99 (voltage based ... auto on when car starts, goes off about 10 secs after engine off) and the lights were 11.58 both from Amazon... switched out my city lights with LED T10's (canbus no error from AznOptics) ... put some chrome covers on the wheel nuts... added some nice tire valve caps ... added pics in case anyone was interested |
added Kensun 5k HID into the low beams ... transfered the H7 Diamond Visions into the high beams...
have to wait till dark and make sure aim is good... but ran into a weird situation where the passenger side city light flickers then switches off and i get the dash warning that my front right parking light is out... BUT this only happens when the engine is running. All lights working fine when engine is off... ANyone got any ideas on what i can try? Thanks! ps. ballast and warning cancel and everything fits into the housing so i didn't have to drill a hole into cap or mount anything outside. checked heat after a while, no hotter than the lights themselves... edit - added photos for the before (right lens way high but i didn't have the hex to adjust it at the time) ... and after.... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...37966ff960.jpg Diamond Vision H7 Halogen https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...24c92cb213.jpg Kensun 55W 5k HID |
Grill LED Star
5 Attachment(s)
I couldn't resist... wife was like 'argh more car stuff?'
And I'm like... 'it's fun...' and I don't question her collection of shoes or handbags so thats that :rolf: Seen a couple of these around, one on a GLK and another on a GLA(?) and liked how they looked ... found this set on Amazon and with limited reviews and a bit of faith (not really, amazon lets you return anything...) I went ahead. Arrived yesterday and was fairly surprised by the quality... Came complete with a fuse tap, the wire gauge was about 4 times the usual 'DRL' thickness, plug and lead to power, some zip ties (PIC1). Usual ABS plastic with a chromed star that is slightly bigger actually than the stock grill star. The LED's look to be well insulated (time will tell) and i tested it in a dark room with a 9V battery (PIC2). Took off my grill (thanks to AsianR350 on his guide for this part...) and compared the OEM to this and they were same size, but the holder clips on this LED were totally useless. Nevertheless it slotted in perfectly, but on the side walls, it's star holder clips would run hard against the OEM dimples so i had to dremel them down (PIC3). This let the new star slide all the way in and sits flush at the front no problems. Used the provided zip ties to hold star in place, without too much pressure or overtightening (PIC4). Ran the power line from my DRL switch box near battery lugs in engine bay, up along side, under headlights, down to the top of the lower bumper and tied it off there so it won't go anywhere and plugged it in as I went to attach grill back onto car. Grill looks OEM perfect still, cannot really tell the lights during the day. (PIC5 - car is off, no lights) Will take photo when it gets dark... hope it looks ok ! lol :zoom: |
LED Star results
here's the pics of the installed LED Star from the previous post...
Matches the City LED's perfect... but those DRL's ... seriously thinking of switching over to something more white and less blue... thoughts anyone? :) Thanks https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6a5852f689.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c33085ff5a.jpg |
Looking good.
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Does it come with the DRL module to connect to the battery?
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No, I joined it to the same controlling the DRLs... it's one of these...
Eforcar 1pcs Car LED Controller Daytime Running Light Lamp DRL Auto On/Off Switch Controller 12V for Auto Car Accessories https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0151HWQ94..._f5O-wbSGFS3QC Very cheap, works great :) |
SWEET!
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6752616)
here's the pics of the installed LED Star from the previous post...
Matches the City LED's perfect... but those DRL's ... seriously thinking of switching over to something more white and less blue... thoughts anyone? :) Thanks https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6a5852f689.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c33085ff5a.jpg $550 OEM MB Illuminated star emblem badge on my wife's car versus $75 Chinese made. Not bad for Chinese made . |
I know... as much fun as I have 'updating' the R, I can't justify 10 times the amount what I paid ... ($50 for those)
I doubt that MB will even have a OEM star to fit the R class? I'll be keeping an eye on it and seeing how long they last but compared to some of the other 'DRL' products out there, these looked much better made than most. I've decided to replace those fog DRL's I have there... going to try and find something that more matches the 2010's or find some 2006-07 fogs (and replace the fogs with round DRL's) ... i missed some today... rang a yard parting out a R500 with fogs and they were sold already :( $45 each which is cheaper than the plain grill ! btw, i love the grill pattern on her Merc.. GLA ? Just realised that if there were OEM foglights for the 2006/07 R's, then there should be an OEM bezel and i found the part and it looks like each side is $26... time to give MB a call in the morning :) |
Duplicate
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Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6756414)
I know... as much fun as I have 'updating' the R, I can't justify 10 times the amount what I paid ... ($50 for those)
I doubt that MB will even have a OEM star to fit the R class? I'll be keeping an eye on it and seeing how long they last but compared to some of the other 'DRL' products out there, these looked much better made than most. I've decided to replace those fog DRL's I have there... going to try and find something that more matches the 2010's or find some 2006-07 fogs (and replace the fogs with round DRL's) ... i missed some today... rang a yard parting out a R500 with fogs and they were sold already :( $45 each which is cheaper than the plain grill ! btw, i love the grill pattern on her Merc.. GLA ? Just realised that if there were OEM foglights for the 2006/07 R's, then there should be an OEM bezel and i found the part and it looks like each side is $26... time to give MB a call in the morning :) |
Different DRL's
3 Attachment(s)
So I ended up replacing those DRL's with a straight line DRL...
Dremel'd the fog bezel (and my backup plan in case this botched or looked bad, was to buy OEM bezels with the fog light holes and use that with round DRL's!) to slot the base of this DRL. I think it actually sits / looks better than the previous and it's light is no where as blue so I'm happier :D And the previous DRL's? I installed them onto my daughters 'Toyota' ... :zoom: |
Well im newbie i got a resonator delete yesterday and there was no real change in sound that's sucks the muffler shop said something about it being a california car the cats will restrict most of the noise if you dont change mufflers ..... so i told him that he should have told me that before he started to cut so I only paid $40 so its the 1st lesson learned. I love my r500 you will see more of me i got a couple of projects in the works.
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Woo-hoo welcome to the small but awesome R club ;)
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Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6761743)
Woo-hoo welcome to the small but awesome R club ;)
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Got some accessory from benz. Installed the roof rack last night.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b40f3e9ae8.jpg Will get the fud flap install tonight. |
3 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by dinfung
(Post 6761941)
Got some accessory from benz. Installed the roof rack last night.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b40f3e9ae8.jpg Will get the fud flap install tonight. Here is mine. |
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Replaced an injector, injector seal, and return fuel lines.
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Took her to the dealer transmission valve body
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Originally Posted by Urnzonebait
(Post 6774180)
Took her to the dealer transmission valve body
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6774794)
Was it a full replacement? Or did they just fix the conductor plate, solenoids, or springs?
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Wow, I'm so glad as I eventually replaced both the batteries successfully! Wasn't that easy, although I wouldn't call it complicated. The white battery error' sign disappeared.
What I wonder is why the red battery' sign never appeared, although the main battery was really old and dying. I think it was the age of the car (8+ years), and would sometimes fail if I'd use the radio without driving it for instance, or in case of very cold weather. Feels so good to be well powered again :) Next mission: fix the no-longer-working keyless-go, although I'm giving up trying by myself as I couldn't find concrete information online. Gonna bring it to the MB stealership in nearby Germany soon (much cheaper than here in Switzerland). |
Hi Prerna, is the keyless go no longer working with starting the car or openin/locking the car or both?
Best of luck :) |
Just installed this today. Is the kit from eBay. The parking brake didn't fit thou.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...aa8dde0a0c.jpg |
Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6782287)
Hi Prerna, is the keyless go no longer working with starting the car or openin/locking the car or both?
Best of luck :) |
Originally Posted by dinfung
(Post 6782849)
Just installed this today. Is the kit from eBay. The parking brake didn't fit thou.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...aa8dde0a0c.jpg |
That's a good advice, thank you.
Originally Posted by Prerna
(Post 6782866)
I also got the same kit. As for the break pad, I cut the plastic and glued the pad directly to the pedal.
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I'm obviously a DRL junkie.. this is the fourth set I've tried out (trying to get the cleanest look) but these have been there for about 2 weeks and running good.
They're really thin so sit very flush in, and the shape works with the bezel imho... https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1d4ad486bc.jpg |
i like this 4th set, is suit the shape of the grill perfect.
Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6796703)
I'm obviously a DRL junkie.. this is the fourth set I've tried out (trying to get the cleanest look) but these have been there for about 2 weeks and running good.
They're really thin so sit very flush in, and the shape works with the bezel imho... https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1d4ad486bc.jpg |
interior swap
Took her to the junk yard to look at a black Interior. I need to switch asap!!!
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Whole interior? Dash, door panels, seats etc?? Would love to know what type of price they're asking and your efforts if you go ahead :) keep us updated!
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Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 6807476)
Whole interior? Dash, door panels, seats etc?? Would love to know what type of price they're asking and your efforts if you go ahead :) keep us updated!
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I drove from Los Angeles to Oakland to the OKC vs. GS game and back i love my R the smoothest ride I've driven across country many times. Awesome right just filled up once to get there and once to get back down 5 hour drive body feels great!!!
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Replaced engine and transmission mounts over the weekend. What a PITA! But results are very good.
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Sanded the horizontal slats on the R grille with 150, 220 and then some 320. Had plenty of knicks etc. Purchased some matte black vinyl wrap from a tint shop and wrapped them. Came out very well. Hope it holds up to road debris etc.
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Oil change this morning: Amsoil European Formula 5W40
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I'm picking mine up from the shop, not repaired. Indy suspects the coolant leak is from the oil cooler, though I am suspicious. They suggest taking it to a dealer to see if I can get it fixed under warranty, which I am also suspicious of as it is a 2009 with 112,000 miles on it.
So tonight I am going to crawl under it myself and then this weekend decide whether fixing it is worth it or not. UGH |
What did I do to my R? Had it towed home because of complete engine failure. Took off intake manifold and found broken flaps, tonnes of oil, pieces of piston ring springs etc from middle passenger cylinder. Engine is toast. Will have to dig in further but in the middle of a bathroom reno so it'll have to wait. Mercedes - the best or nothing... currently I have the nothing... FML
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Originally Posted by darkflash
(Post 6849354)
What did I do to my R? Had it towed home because of complete engine failure. Took off intake manifold and found broken flaps, tonnes of oil, pieces of piston ring springs etc from middle passenger cylinder. Engine is toast. Will have to dig in further but in the middle of a bathroom reno so it'll have to wait. Mercedes - the best or nothing... currently I have the nothing... FML
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Um, changed every 8k kms which is just under 5k miles. I only owned the vehicle for 2 years so 5 years obviously isn't possible. Blame me if you want, but I didn't build this piece of crap. Maybe you work for Mercedes?
Yeah, maybe the airbags leaking was the oil changes too right? My 20 year old rotary turbo is more reliable. My 98 Audi A4 was more reliable. My 05 BMW X5 was more reliable. Tell me more about how it's my fault Mercedes made the damn balance shaft sprocket out of play-doh. So it's my fault that they put ****ty plastic in a magnesium intake Manifold? I sure as **** never dreamed of "engineering" a sealed for life transmission without a damn dipstick. I drove my 2.8l V6 Audi A4 to 200k! That had an aluminum dual stage intake manifold and it never failed! It only had to be cleaned once! |
Originally Posted by darkflash
(Post 6849475)
Um, changed every 8k kms which is just under 5k miles. I only owned the vehicle for 2 years so 5 years obviously isn't possible. Blame me if you want, but I didn't build this piece of crap. Maybe you work for Mercedes?
Yeah, maybe the airbags leaking was the oil changes too right? My 20 year old rotary turbo is more reliable. My 98 Audi A4 was more reliable. My 05 BMW X5 was more reliable. Tell me more about how it's my fault Mercedes made the damn balance shaft sprocket out of play-doh. So it's my fault that they put ****ty plastic in a magnesium intake Manifold? I sure as **** never dreamed of "engineering" a sealed for life transmission without a damn dipstick. I drove my 2.8l V6 Audi A4 to 200k! That had an aluminum dual stage intake manifold and it never failed! It only had to be cleaned once! I have my 08 R350 oil changed yearly in the last 8 years at my local MB dealer and it still run like new as the day I got it. Actually it runs better and smoother as I just had transmission fluid changed this year. |
New rear pads and rotors, plus a right side rear calliper.
I've got new pads and rotors for the front also. So, maybe that will be this weekend's project. |
ATL rotors and pads:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...fd52363ea2.jpg $336USD for pads and rotors (all vented) for four wheels. Note: these do not include new springs or wear sensors. |
2007 MB R320 CDI - looking for some help.
Hi Guys,
I just bought a new (old 2007) MB R320 CDI and I'm looking for some help. I got the CARFAX Vehicle History Report but I don't know what options it has. Can I find it by my VIN number? It's 2007 MB R320 CDI Sport Utility 3.0L V6 FI All Wheel Drive and the VIN number is: 4JGCB22E17A049882 Can I make the COMAND software update for this vehicle model and 2007 year? Thank you. :zoom: |
Originally Posted by David Gherman
(Post 6855588)
Hi Guys,
I just bought a new (old 2007) MB R320 CDI and I'm looking for some help. I got the CARFAX Vehicle History Report but I don't know what options it has. Can I find it by my VIN number? It's 2007 MB R320 CDI Sport Utility 3.0L V6 FI All Wheel Drive and the VIN number is: 4JGCB22E17A049882 Can I make the COMAND software update for this vehicle model and 2007 year? Thank you. :zoom: Cant help you on the Command Update but you can look up your VIN Here http://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/mercedes/vin_check |
been awhile mainly because the R500 is being solid, but added chrome edging to the front and rear lights, changed my rear passenger airbag suspension (after finding out that no, my warranty doesn't cover it, MB quoted $1600+tax, bought arnott lifetime and did it myself for $200), and just added some power steering fluid to bring it back in line (cold start funky noise when turning, now gone).
still a great drive, did a drive down to San Diego from LA (before the new airbag) and averaged about 70mph and round trip of just under 20mpg which I was happy with :) |
What I maintained today
Dealer replaced original brake rotors and 2nd set of pads at 165,000 kms. Also new under-seat battery, new MB windshield replacing original, new engine idler pulleys, new wiper blades. I changed the oil (Mobil 1 0-40 european formula) myself. One week prior I put on new 18 inch Conti-contact 4x4s . I guess this means I'm keeping the car for awhile - or offering to sell it fresh from dealer service! Dealer forgot to re-set service D (due in 2 days) so I will do that. This only leaves the grinding gear on the Pano Roof I no longer open (I'm fine with it staying closed) and a Rear Airmatic that doesn't like to take too much weight (on second set of rear shocks already). Since 2008 I've waxed the thing probably 60 times so it looks new to this day. Random thoughts of new engine (6.3?!) to prolong life? Always worried about that front gear on the balance? shaft wearing out for an early 2006. Probably not worth the cost. Next will be a strut in the front probably too - that's about it. Car is ready for winter and shares carting duties with my '95 S class that needs a new front timing cover seal but otherwise runs great at 70,000 kms.
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A couple days late but I ordered a new driver side passenger door sill, a front middle louvered AC vent and a new cover to replace the torn driver seat bottom.
FWIW I found out there are only 2 left in existence:eek: |
Replaced the pressure differential sensor.
Symptoms: CEL Codes: 2078-008, P1405 Limited acceleration Repair: Part # 0061539528 $80CAD at the dealer 1/2 hour to replace located behind the transfer case above the drive shaft - will need to remove the small cross brace for access. |
Repaired my turbo actuator this morning.
DIY: Repair time: 2 hours Cost: $0 Dealer cost: $2,600 |
How many miles you getting out of your Sailuns Marc?
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So far I've got about 30,000kms (18,600miles) on them. They still look as good as new.
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What are your thoughts on them?
I put them on mine because I was paying a lot for tires and only getting around 25,000 out of them and thought what's the point. My tire guy recommended I try the Sailun. I have been able to get almost 40,000 out of them so far. I will replace them with the same soon, I just wish they were a little quieter. |
I find them a little shaky at highway speed, but they may just need to be rebalanced. I'm assuming you're speaking in miles? How much tread do you have left?
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Yes, miles. They are down to the wear bars. Mine were shaky at first and I had to go back and have them balanced again.
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I would have expected them to last longer than that. You must be a crazy driver :)
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I thought that was a lot? I've never heard of anyone getting more than 30,000 out of tires on a R.
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I got 120,000kms on a set of BFG's on my old ML320. I always expect 80-100,000kms on a set of good SUV tires.
Those BFG's still had a lot of tread, they were just out of round. |
Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6924015)
Repaired my turbo actuator this morning.
DIY: Repair time: 2 hours Cost: $0 Dealer cost: $2,600 What symptoms were you experiencing? How'd you fix it? Thanks in advance |
Poor acceleration and little power at highway speed. No CEL, but when scanning with the iCarSoft it showed a 2510-001 code. It felt like the turbo wasn't kicking in.
I checked the turbo to see if it was spinning freely - no noise and good movement. Then checked the actuator arm to see if it was sticking at all - no problem there. Then I took off the turbo actuator and opened it up, it looked good inside, but after testing resistance on the terminals and soldered connections, I found one connection was broken. I re-soldered it and put it all back together, and all was good again. Here's the culprit: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6a2c905535.jpg |
Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6924284)
Poor acceleration and little power at highway speed. No CEL, but when scanning with the iCarSoft it showed a 2510-001 code. It felt like the turbo wasn't kicking in.
I checked the turbo to see if it was spinning freely - no noise and good movement. Then checked the actuator arm to see if it was sticking at all - no problem there. Then I took off the turbo actuator and opened it up, it looked good inside, but after testing resistance on the terminals and soldered connections, I found one connection was broken. I re-soldered it and put it all back together, and all was good again. Here's the culprit: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6a2c905535.jpg Cheers |
It sounds like a big deal, but it's not really. Experience and internet searches can solve 99% of problems.
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Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6924217)
I got 120,000kms on a set of BFG's on my old ML320. I always expect 80-100,000kms on a set of good SUV tires.
Those BFG's still had a lot of tread, they were just out of round. |
Originally Posted by marc hanna
(Post 6924217)
I got 120,000kms on a set of BFG's on my old ML320. I always expect 80-100,000kms on a set of good SUV tires.
Those BFG's still had a lot of tread, they were just out of round. |
Originally Posted by taranch
(Post 6924319)
They don't make BFGs like that anymore.
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Had the timing chain, pulse wheels, chain tensioner and plugs replaced at the dealer 2 weeks ago. I bought my 08 R350 with the check engine light on and 1200 & 1208 codes. I replaced the cam magnets and scoped the balance shaft gear and it looked ok, car ran great and no check engine light for a while then it would intermittenly go on/off. I figured it was a stretched chain but had no desire to do it myself, they verified that it was and repalced it. Car runs great and no check engine light. I bought the R cheap enough that having the dealer do the work still has me in the black on cost of ownership. My wife and I both love the hell out of the R. Now to replace front shocks and right muffler. Car has 119k on it now.
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New Iridium plugs in the R today.
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Got the stock wheel painted black and installed 255/50/20 Bridgestone Blizzard. Have the suspension set to normal height. Ready for the winter.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9c2293566a.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...de18171e1a.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...bc07acef7c.jpg |
Looks nice!
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Those black wheels look great. I really want to do this.
A BMW hit me in the Lowes Parking lot a couple weeks ago. Not significant damage, but scratched up the wheels real bad. I'm hoping her insurance just gives me a check and I can have a friend strip the wheels and powder coat them flat black.. |
Yes, do it, black wheels look great.
Originally Posted by thetonka
(Post 6960138)
Those black wheels look great. I really want to do this.
A BMW hit me in the Lowes Parking lot a couple weeks ago. Not significant damage, but scratched up the wheels real bad. I'm hoping her insurance just gives me a check and I can have a friend strip the wheels and powder coat them flat black.. |
81k
New to me R350, OD for service B by 3k
Had my indy do all but O&F and Nokian WRG3s serpentine belt tensioner rollers plugs air and cabin filters fixed transmission cooler hose leaks full transmission fluid flush and filter differentials and transfer case fluids front pads and rotors flushed brakes and power steering lubed pano roof and all hinges Hopefully Im good for awhile Including tires, parts, and labor cost was about 1900 Sourced parts from rock auto, amazon, and ECS Car is a joy to drive
Originally Posted by Pete S
(Post 6651135)
We have a thread like this in a SL R129 forum I visit. It's a good thread with members posting what they have had done or did to their car. Great for ideas and some DIY stuff. Maybe it will get some steam here. I'll start.
Had the transmission fluid and filter changed out and drained and put fresh fluid in both diffs since there was no record of this ever having being done in the service records provided with the car. My trans guy said the fluid looked very good and free of any metal shavings and same goes for the diff. I wasn't having any issues just preventive maintenance. Total cost out the door $340. |
"What did you do with your R-Class today?"
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Welcome to the R-World, send us some picture of your ride.
Originally Posted by Yoni94
(Post 7046342)
"What did you do with your R-Class today?"
I bought one. I bought a 2011 R350 BlueTEC. |
With almost 70K miles on it runs so good that I haven't spent a penny on it, other than what you would need on any car but it still runs great and goes strong actually. I was a bit hesitant getting an R class at first reading some of the reviews, but I am glad i did because it has been one of the most reliable cars I have ever driven and the drive is so smooth and fun despite the size of the car. The only thing is the low MPG which could have be a non issue had I bought a diesel one but oh well, I am happy with this car.
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Been very quiet from me... just hit my 1st anniversary with the car and it's only clocked 6500 miles (give or take)...
I did just do it's Service D (found a new merc indy who's great) and he found a slight noise (not noticeable from cabin , only if you're standing outside right at the engine bay listening) that turns out to be the idler pulley which my warranty covered so thats all good. And installed chrome step plate for the rear bumper over the weekend. Found it on ebay and i always liked the look but note for anyone, the standard bumper would require 'modifications' to fit them. I dremeled the step plate instead to fit (and broke off all the attachment tabs) and removed a bit off the inner edge but it looks good ... i'll get a couple of photos up ... fixed with 3M double sided. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...637f89f66c.jpg |
New AMG Pedals On my R350
Here my new Pedals, emergency brake one does not fit, so you need to cut and paste over original pad or iron. Just use fast glue.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ba878f24d3.jpg |
lol you must have bought the same set as me (couple of weeks ago) ... same problem with the park brake piece so i just left it off :)
Lookin good :) |
This was the last thing i added to my R500... wasn't today though, more like about a month ago now... fits perfect and looks great imho.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5016d79684.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ab59e8598f.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3da463cc96.png https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ef8ed0ebfd.png |
Just Cut it to flat and paste it with any quick glue.
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Originally Posted by JonMac
(Post 7180331)
This was the last thing i added to my R500... wasn't today though, more like about a month ago now... fits perfect and looks great imho.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5016d79684.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ab59e8598f.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3da463cc96.png https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ef8ed0ebfd.png |
PM'd you szulkan...
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I wouldn't mind a set like that also.
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