Sub/Amp Install
 

Anyone do a sub/amp install? Any tips? This Burmester sound system has to be the worse sounding system ever! Bass is non-existent. Not everyone wants to hear classical music Mercedes.

I agree. What is the point of having a bad ass coupe if you cannot listen to Zeppelin and Queen the way it is meant to be heard! Maybe they could put in the stereo from the Pacer in Wayne’s World. :)

Let us know if you figure this out.

Not much to figure out, my friend installs my sub and amp in just about every Benz, Porsche, Jag I've ever owned. Just didn't know if anyone had any tips. Thanks!

Well the only suggestion I have is to turn up the base (which i did the day i bought it). But I agree re installing the sub woofer and amp. I just dont know if this car is a keeper worth that investment.

I remember way back when I had an 01 E55 (god I loved that car—it was so raw), I had Clarion “Pimp My Ride” and they put a sub woofer, amp and even a purple light bar in the trunk. Replaced all the speakers in the car. Incredible sound. I could go to a stop light in LA and out boom box the lowriders!

Ron, you're showing your age when you say things like "out boom box". Ha ha!

Older than dirt. Also could have mentioned 8 tracks if I thought about it. It was really nice, the pause in the middle of the song to change tracks. Gave you a chance to go out and get a beer! :)

Would love to throw a amp and sub in mine all my cars have them. Just scared of anyone taking anything apart in this car cause its so computerized. I have to find someone in the chiagoland that has done it in the Mercedes.

I have the optional HiEnd sound and its pretty good. Bass amp and 10" in the trunk, and 8-10" in the floor firewall.

I heard Doc Brown is really good at electronics. You might want to give him a call. :)

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6c0c8c08a.jpeg

Jekyl:

It's nothing to be afraid of. I had a 2011 Jaguar XJL also loaded up with electronics. It's pretty straight forward, you tap into the existing sub, run power, ground, and you need a line inverter and you're good to go. It's much easier when the battery is in the trunk, otherwise you have to run power from the front battery to the rear of the car which is just a pain in the ass (removing floor trim, etc).

OKB:

Wow is that what comes with the high-end Burmester? That sounds like the right mix of speakers/sub. I wouldn't have paid extra for the upgrade considering the cost, but if you got it, rock it! The non-high end unit is garbage in my opinion.

Good point Lexnoir, the battery is in the trunk which makes things a lot easier. So you did not tap into the stereo system at all? You just ran off the sub line in the back.

Does anybody know of a good trusted shop in the Chicagoland area? The guy I have used for my other cars works our of his home. I am not sure though if i can trust him with this car.

Correct. it's strictly battery and tapping other sub. Having my buddy do it this weekend.

I'll be watching this thread, too. The installer I've used for my previous designs is a bit too "unstructured" to be allowed into the electronics and/or fiber optics of the MB.
Even the H-K in the W212 leaves SO much to be desired. My old 2001 Lexus LS blew the E-Class sound away.

I still remember when I bought my first MB, in 1988. I asked if there was an upgrade to the wimpy little Becker stereo it came with. The sales consultant told me, "Sir - customers do not purchase these automobiles to listen to the radio."

the $6500 hi end option has many more speakers, ( I think 20 or more total) and (I think1200-1300) watts. Theres a utube video where a shop retrofits one in a s sedan and shows all the new parts.
It really have a strong bass and I blew the trunk woofer. Im pretty impressed with it over all and its better than having to put a new system in. That was one of my hold outs finding the car.

Lexnoir update us with some pics of your setup when you get it done. okbarnett isn't the Burmeister the high stereo system? That is what is I have. It definitely is clear sounding but to me is missing a little more punch in the bass (subwoofer) dept.

6500 hi end option is an option
if you have the big grills on the doors and woofer in the trunk

Update
 

Guys sorry for the delay here's where we are...

AMP and sub are installed but... tapping the speaker wires in the back is causing the sub to not pump. It's moving but nowhere near the level it should be.

I need access to one of the speakers to eliminate the factory amp. But damn it if these speakers aren't hard to reach. The rear deck isn't accessible through the trunk. We think we need to take the rear seats out first but we wanted someone to chime in with experience (a MB mechanic etc.) preferably with directions or a blow out of removing a speaker that would get us access to tap the speaker thus bypassing the factory amp/system.

The good news:

Battery is in trunk (good for powering aftermarket amp) and obviously plenty of ground sources.

Factory amp is also in the trunk.

Bad news:

The factory system is turning down or doing something to my sub so that it doesn't do much pumping. Pretty much worthless.


Next steps:
We tested the sub and amp bypassing the system and it pumps!! So now we need access to a speaker. The easiest one to reach. I'm thinking rear deck.

Since I didn't do the work I failed to take pics (I know, I'm worthless).

But I can tell you to pull out all the rear trunk padding (everything in black). Left side is the factory amp behind the rear seats (now exposed) is the battery. Right side is fuse box for tapping to ensure the amp cuts on and/or off when the car is in/off.

What we got after we were done:

Powered amp, sub working albeit extremely low. It's like the car is saying no... not so much bass. So the sub is moving but very quietly. It also didn't seem to hit or be in sync with the actual bass drops with the music. It was bassing but off beat if that makes sense. Almost like it was bassing based on a sound that wasn't the bass drop.

Again I'm no audio expert so my terms are my terms and not necessarily the views of my backyard mechanic.

He stated however this is a cake job. The challenge is the need to tap an actual speaker which Mercedes did a great job of hiding behind all types of ****.

My ask:

Do we have an MB mechanic or someone that has
-Replaced a speaker in this car (doubt it)
- If so tell me how to access a speaker
-Has any idea what we are doing wrong that's causing the car to turn down the sub

In the words of my friend "can't you just buy a Nissan or something like everyone else".

By the way I trust him. I've done complicated cars before (other Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar). Like an oil change **** is pretty standard albeit with some nuances. You never need to tap into any other electronics which made me more comfortable.

Help! I'm bass starved.

Hi!

Just don't go overboard with power and size. A diecent power combined with a quality components will give you a much nicer and balanced sound compared to one you will get if going for extremes.

Mario:

Definitely not looking to rattle the neighborhood. What I'm saying is, the sub isn't outputting much if anything. In other words it's as if the sub doesn't exist. Clearly something is wrong. If I can get to a speaker to tap then we'll be in business. But I don't want to rip up the car "trying" to get access to the speaker. I'd like instructions.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e9b52b8260.jpg

That sucks Lexnoir, I bet it is an easy fix just have to get to someone who has worked on these cars. Maybe try to talk to one of the mechanics at your local dealerships. This is what I mean with these cars being complicated to mod anything on. everything is wired in to work in harmony. One little disturbance can cause a domino effect of problems.Good luck with figuring it out. Keep us updated. Okbarnett do the speakers in the door look like this? this is what I have in the doors.

I found a shop that can handle it. They do high-end cars. They'll charge me $60 to get to the speaker. The hard work is already done. I noticed you posted a pic of the door speaker. Clearly you haven't seen the inside of that door!! I had read on another forum that you'd have to remove the door panel, window motor, and apparently it's a pain in the ass. The rear deck is what I need access to since it's closest to the trunk. We're almost positive the rear seat has to come out. That's usually a pretty easy thing to do. You absolutely can NOT access the speakers from the trunk. There's a **** ton of electronics, battery etc directly behind the seats when accessing from the trunk. Speakers are no where to be found. So they'd have to get the speakers from the rear seat and without taking the seats out I'm not seeing an easy way to do it.

I've chickened out, I'm waiting to get more comfortable (used to my new toy) before I have anyone fiddle with it anymore. But the lack of bass is killing me. To the point where I'm wondering if something is wrong. Is there a factory sub in these cars? Or is it just a bunch of speakers?

I've upgraded the audio system in most of the cars I've owned. My last Mercedes was CLK55 cabriolet and stereo upgrade results were awesome. After that I had a Jaguar F-Type S V8 and upgraded that system awesomely as well. I recently sold it and got a 2017 S550 Cabriolet. This is my next audio upgrade project car. It has the standard Burmeister audio system and lacks bass I want. I am not going to change anything related to head unit as it is totally integrated but I plan to obtain clean low-level full-range signal to add after market amps with my own sub. I may also change speakers but will decide after I hear the Burmeister stock speakers powered by my Alpine amp. The stock speakers may be good enough once I set new crossover points.

The Burmeister standard audio system processes audio and provided limited frequency ranges to each speaker channel. It seems you tapped into audio signal for a speaker with low frequencies reduced by Bermeister's crossover. I know you have been looking to tap into signal from a rear speaker but I'm pretty sure the lowest frequencies are sent to speakers in front, not in the rear. The Bermeister system focuses its soundstage in the front and they put their deepest bass up front, specifically to subwoofer under the dash in the fire wall.

It sounds like we have the same setup and are on the same page with needing more bass. Please post any info you can on your install.

The Buemeister system i solar and hits a beautiful range of highs and lows but the Bass is minimal. Im sure you guys know about the boost option that you can turn on when using your bluetooth setting media on the stereo. you hit options, then volume then boost on. Its a little better but still could use more bass.

I appreciate that and I did manage to stumble on it... but I drove a Chrysler 300 that had more thump then the S with the bass boost option on.

It seems to be tuned for classical music more than anything with a little thump.

OTO: If it helps I created another thread about accessing the rear deck. Someone was kind enough to post that information. See thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-c...ml#post7738700

I'm going to ask him if he has instructions for accessing the front speakers since you seem to think the front speakers have the bass. Are you thinking door? Or on the dash. The thought of touching that dash for me is probably out of the question.

Lowest bass frequencies are routed to a stock subwoofer mounted under the dash in the fire wall.

Years ago when I did an audio upgrade to a CLK55 convertible I found space under the passenger footwell. Under the carpet is a false floor made of plastic. When I removed it there was just a small computer with a ton of space around it. I moved the computer up under the dash behind glove compartment and had a fiberglass enclosure built to perfectly fit into the space. It maximized on airspace with a 10" flat Kenwood carbon sub. I never considered Kenwood for a sub before but JL Audio's flat woofer wasn't released yet so I tried it. It sounded awesome. Can take up to 1000 watts. I have a JL Audio 500 watt mono amp powering it. Deep full bass in convertible in front soundstage.

I'm going to explore the space in my 2017 S550 cabriolet because I need more bass!

Just so we're clear. You're saying in the S550 coupe the factory sub is under the dash? I wonder if that's only on the cabriolet though. Do you have any idea how hard it is to access?

Mine is convertible but I assume it’s same on the coupe if you have standard Burmeister. If you have the hi-end Burmeister it might also be there but they also have one in truck floor too.

Got it thank you. It's super frustrating because I have the amp hooked up and ready to go. The problem is the Brumeister won't let my sub thump. My installer says if we tap a speaker we're golden. But of course accessing a speaker on this car is not an easy task and I'm not trying to have anyone ripping my **** up unless they know exactly what they're doing.

Another solution is locate the Burmeister amp where all the speaker outputs are located and tap into the correct one there.

That's what we did and also had the line out converter. The problem is, the sub will play but it's as if the Burmeister is doing something to restrict the output to the sub. It's really odd and we both agree we've never seen this before. We tested the sub and it THUMPS!! So it's not the sub or my after market amp. It's something the car is doing. After messing with the factory amp for hours testing each wire. He said if we can get to a speaker we're done. But you can't get to the speakers from the trunk. There are so many electronics and no way to access the speaker as it's on the inside of the rear and not exposed in the trunk.

It looks like we have to take the seats out, motorized sunshade in the rear, rear deck, and lord knows what else just to get to a goddamn speaker!! Someone in another thread sent me instructions for the rear deck access, shade, etc. I'm just hoping someone has an easier solution.

This may be an”Audio 101” suggestion for your installer but is it possible he tapped into both left and right to provide as source for your amp? If so the Burmeister’s DSP might send out of phase signals in lower frequencies depending where stock speakers are installed. For example, often dash speakers (such as center speaker) are usually out of phase because sound reflects off windshield to your ear. The Burmeister audio designers might want that out of phase depending on reflection and timing to listeners’ ears.

In summary, if L+R is connected, eliminate one temporarily to see if it helps. If so, wire one out of phase and you should have the missing thump. If this solves it you still have to listen closely to determine which L or R should be permanently wired out of phase to properly blend with the sound from the stock speakers.

You're speaking Mandarin to me right now. Ha. I will ask him I'm sure that would make sense to him. I hope that's all! Keep you posted. Thanks.

I broke down and took it to a shop and I trust. We had the sub hooked up correctly, but the line out converter I purchased (the same one I purchased for my million other cars) the PAC wasn't correct. The shop sold me a $150 line out converter. They didn't tune the sub however so I'll be taking the trunk apart again. During this time I will take photos and give you the model number on the correct line out converter.

I now have some thump in my trunk! So in the end connecting an aftermarket sub and amp to this car is no different than any other vehicle. The difference is which line out converter you use.

Finally Started Stereo Install
 

After a few months with S550 cabriolet and Burmeister stereo, I finally planned out my install. Here’s what I’m doing and started the project earlier this week.

I’m keeping all the stock speakers in place without modification but will be adding two 10” Kenwood Exelon KFC-XW1000F subwoofers. They will be installed in a custom fabricated fiberglass enclosure under the trunk floor. This requires removal of a foam place holder for car jack. Just enough airspace needed for 1.2 cubic feet needed for these woofers as a pair.

Also under trunk floor will be two Alpine amplifiers and an Audio Control sound processor. One Alpine PDX-F6 will provide 150-watts into each of the front four speaker sets. One set is the left mid and tweeter in door. This is powered as one channel as it was from the Burmeister amp and is crossed over as mids/highs. Same for the right mid and tweeter. Another channel powers the existing 9” stock woofer installed in the front firewall and crossed over as lows. The last channel powers the center speaker.

A second Alpine amp PDX-V9 provides 4x100 + 1x500. Each of the 100-watt channels will power the two back deck speakers and the two side speakers. The 500-watt mono channel will power the two 10” subwoofers wired as 2-ohm.

Audio Control DM-810 sound processor handles all the crossover points, time alignment, and equalization for sound quality flat response.

The unique component needed to obtain clean full range signal from the Mercedes Burmeister system is called Zen for Most (Zen-M) by Nav-TV in Boca Raton, FL. This part eliminates the factory Burmeister amp which complicates the system with preset, non-modifiable sound settings. Instead a fiber optic cable is removed from that amp and connected to the Zen which provides full range fully digital low-level audio signal. The Zen has low level outputs for each original speaker channel (front left, front right, front center, sub, middle left, middle right, back left, back right) so balance and fade controls operate as usual from the car’s display screen. Those audio signals are fed into the DM-810 for sound processing before feeding audio to the amplifiers.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4292b80a9.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c98f51a40.jpeg
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Here are photos of the installation of audio wiring in the truck and starting building the subwoofer enclosure. The battery is hidden under a metal enclosure behind back seat. The stock Burmeister amplifier is in the trunk on the left side hidden behind pumps for the convertible top.

Let me know if people here want me to post photos as I build out the install.

Just ask'n....But why would you do out of phase and the resulting lack of imaging and signal cancelling when you can adjust environmental, i.e. windshield and other placement parameters, reflections and timing in the DSP digital realm?? Most processors are digitally tuned during the design phase of the system for correct installation to optimize speaker placement.

I wouldn’t do out of phase. After reading another person’s issue with lacking bass thump I suggested he verify that his installer should not sum stock channels as sometimes stock stereo systems are tuned with center speakers purposely wired out of phase due to reflection off the windshield Also with convertibles that actively change equalization settings may also change phase for top up and top down due to different reflections.

In summary, I don’t recommend wiring any standard stereo system out of phase

Update: I finished this audio project many months ago and it sounded awesome. The only problem is the stock tweeters have a problem around 12000 Hz. Unfortunately someone ran a red light into me and my 2017 S550 Cabriolet was totaled. I replaced it with a 2018 S560 Cabriolet and plan to install all the same components in it next week. Only change I will make is I plan to also change the door speakers mid and tweeters. All the rear speakers will remain stock for surround sound fill and the center speaker handles power from Alpine amplifier just fine. The trick to the install is a piece called Zen-M from a company called Nav-TV. It gets installed to the digital fiberoptic wire to bypass the factory amp. It provides RCA outputs for every channel and optical audio out to connect all the aftermarket amps and processors without any modification to the integrated head unit.

Hey bud, thanks for keeping this thread updated. I'm hoping you could provide some clarity:

How does the Zen-M unit differentiate in its intended purpose when compared with JL Audio Fix-86?

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-9B6Qsd...io-FiX-86.html

From my understanding, the Fix-86 equalizes all outputs so that they're flat, before you send the low level audio signals to a DSP.

I'm working on figuring out what to do for my S65, so trying to understand the different integrations methods and how far I want to go with this. So far I have a JL Audio 13TW5v2-2 sub and a JL Audio VX1000/5i amp which has built-in DSP that connects via Bluetooth to your laptop or phone for tuning many frequencies.

I'm deciding if I'm going to just get the subwoofer connected and call it a day, or add Focal speakers to the front doors. I'm sure they'll sound fantastic, but not sure they're worth tons of work just to install them. I imagine installing the front door speakers 3-ways was a job and a half?

Any advice you could provide, I would appreciate!

That JL Audio piece is not the best product for our cars. It uses speaker level inputs from after the car’s factory amp which has distortion and post processing that needs to be flatten out. In contrast the Zen-M is specific for Mercedes vehicles with fiber optic audio. It gets its input directly from the digital fiber optic signal BEFORE the factory amp. This signal is pure with no preset processing, exactly what you want from the source head unit. The Zen has high voltage low-level outputs which you’ll connect to your JL DSP amp where you can tweak the sound to your preference using eq and time alignment.

Regarding your speaker question - In my previous 2017 S550 I kept stock speakers and only added 2 10” subs. But I was alway unhappy with the lack of crispness of the highs from the stock tweeters. In my most recent car 2018 S560 I installed all the same components plus now replaced front door speakers with Morel Elate mids and tweeters. This made a tremendous difference in sound quality. There is so much more detail and I couldn’t be happier. If you’re in the South Florida area you’re welcome to come give it a listen. In summary, I highly recommend you install your Focals for the front soundstage.

Many thanks for that reply! Looks like the Fix-86 is going back and I'll go with the Zen. I suspected that it would nullify the need for the Fix-86 as it's a straight Fiber connection.

Granted I haven't received my car yet, but I suspect that I won't be impressed with the sound system's clarity as I had the same thoughts when I had a 2012 C63 Black Series. Added a sub to that car via line driver.

If you're impressed with the Morel components then I should be quite pleased with the Focal as they're both high end brands.

Would you happen to recall the sizes of components? I've been trying to find information about speaker sizes to start looking into getting a 3-way components set from Focal for the doors.

How many speakers do you have running now and are they 2/3 ways? Any stock speakers left for 'fill'?

I have Morel Elate 903 which is a 3-way set and fairly large crossover. I have this set from a previous car. In this case I’m only using the mid, tweeter, and crossover all installed in the door. I did not use the 9” included woofer because the car has two stock 10” woofers in the firewall under the dash which handle the Alpine amp power and sound great. This is in addition to the two 10” woofers I added in the trunk enclosure. The tweeter is 1 1/8” and mid is 3 1/2”.

You don’t need to run speaker wires everywhere. You tap into all the speakers at the factory amp area. Only one speaker wire runs into each door so the crossover was installed inside the door which worked out well.

I didn’t change any other speaker because they are all rear fill and all handle the power. Same with the center - it handles the power and is also integrated with the mBrace system directly.

Ok the tweeter and mid of those sizes just drop-in without any fitment issues? I wonder if the other speakers in the doors are 6.5" round standard size.

So installation for an installer should be as simple as removing doors, dropping-in the components, and going to the factory amp which identifies which wires go to which speakers? I can't imagine installation should take too long in that case.

I'll be using that Zen, so I'll end up bypassing or replacing that factory amp.

Yes it’s as simple as that. But our cars are not Honda’s so expect installer to take more time being careful not to scratch anything and everything is put together solid which times to remove and put back. Mine is convertible so extra work involved to get to factory amp working with rear boot for top, etc. Also my doors only have tweeter and mid speakers, no 6.5” woofer. Mine has two 10” under dash in firewall for front low frequencies.

Here’s two pics of the new speakers installed in the doors and the large crossover.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c69604176.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d7f15fe12.jpeg

Do you have pics of where you put the subs... thanks in advance.

Poor sound quality in Burmester
 

Hello: I cannot agree more that the sound quality is miserable in ( at least the cabriolet ) I have the high end burmester and have taken it as far as I can Sounds so processed and muddy with lack of clarity. I have spoken to the dealer , I have spoken to MBUSA and I have spoken to the field MBUSA person. MBUSA has washed their hands of it and said ' you may not like it , but that's the way it is. They claim " no one has complained about poor sound quality in the cab or coupe. If find it hard to believe but perhaps most people listen to talk radio. I have reached out to Burmester in Berlin , communicated with the head engineer , reached out to ASK , the manufacturer of the audio equipment. I paid to ship a new amplifier from Berlin and substitute the unit with updated firmware , brought the car to a local auto sound company , had an engineer take real time analysis measurement of predetermined sound frequencies , spoken to the owner of Nav TV , Moni and had him check the audio quality hands on. It comes down to a few items. !st , MBUSA doesn't think there is a problem 2nd , its really a firmware issue and it could most likely be corrected if not for the arrogance of MBUSA and whoever is involved. No one likes to feel they have been ripped off , I believe I have been ripped off. I paid to get the high end audio system. I received something that is actually sub par.sound. The " high end " system sounds significantly worse than the base audio i have in my 2014 GL. I suggest you dont waste any more of your time , I wasted so much time and costs. All you will get back is " audio quality is subjective " and ' it is what it is' were not doing anything. Some people dont care about audio quality and I am not audio aficionado but poor is poor. There are other issues however paying extra to get something worse does not bode well.

I can tell you MBUSA lied to you just as they lied to me. I complained a multitude of times about the audio in my S550 Cabriolet. That car was recently in an accident and I replaced with S560 Cabriolet. In both models the audio was unacceptable to my ears. The NAV-TV product is the best way to fix it. It eliminates factory amp where specialized processing occurs. With the NAV-TV piece I have a clean, flat signal from head unit which feeds aftermarket equipment.

Other problems with stock audio system is the speakers. The door mid-woofers rattle internally at certain frequencies between 160Hz to 800Hz. Also tweeter drops off high frequencies around 12000hz as volume is increased. Solution was replace door speakers.

The front firewall subs are excellent and do not need to be changed. But additional bass is required. I added a sub in the truck floor with very little negative affect on truck space.

Remaining speakers have same tweeter frequency drop and mid-woofer rattles. But these weren’t important enough for me to replace since all are used for filler audio. The main audio is in the doors, subs, and center. The stock center channel is good enough to keep in place as well.

Well, I read thru (skimmed) this thread and I'm impressed with the work you guys did! My MY17 C217 has the High-End, and yeah, it's decent, but even with the 2 x 8" FrontBass woofers and trunk floor sub, it lacked bass "feel".
SO... Rather than take up trunk or interior space, spending $$$ on so much custom fab, here's what I did:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...806a903ff3.png
4 Dayton "Pucks" under each front seat and added 2 in the lumbar region of the seat backs.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1f8bdccfef.png
Boss Audio 400 Watt amp drives all 12 pucks.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3a5b95c090.png
Remote volume knob attenuates the trunk-mounted amp.

The result is quite astounding!! You'd swear there were (2) 12" subs in floor of the car somewhere. Those little "pucks" kick ass! Literally!!

I know this is an old thread and sorry to bring it back but I’m trying to install an amp and sub in my cabriolet as well. I can’t seem to get to the factory amp in the trunk. I’m stuck trying to remove the black felt side panel. I know it’s a long shot but are you able to message me or maybe even text me at (669) 261-1789 and help? Thank you very much.