braverichard

Very true. Looks like MBUSA is confused and doesn't know exactly what they sell and what they don't sell LOL. So maybe the S350 doesn't exist!!

Incendiary

You sure? I seem to recall seeing some CLK430's...

GDawgC220

The w208 CLK's had the 4.3L V8...the w209's have the 5.0 V8.

vraa

I like picking on you

It's a smart short term business movie, but like the article in MotorTrend (Losing Luster or something like that) (was it motor trend?), the value of the tri-star has been depreciating quicker then a Civic falling off a cliff. These cheaper 'what should be flagship' sedans aren't helping any either. Mercedes needs to cut back on what models they are offering and work on their logistics and sales network. It's not that we need more <50k$ one time buyers, but multiple >50K$ buyers. That's something I think they can accomplish, but this isn't in the right direction.

Incendiary

Oh whoops, W209 is current CLK?

Messerchmidt

they should send the S400CDI here, and keep the junk S350 in Europe

braverichard

I kind of agree with you there. However, I believe that if quality is restored no one will care that there are 3 million different Mercedes models that one copy of each are sold per year. These cars aren't costing anything extra to build due to flexible assembly plants that can assemble 20 different models on the same line. Chassis component sharing also makes it much easier for Mercedes-Benz to have so many different models. Sure, it seems quite a lot and the numbers keep increasing daily. Even AMG is going crazy, both the S55 and S65 are being sold simultaneously, so the S65 isn't a "newer version" of the S55, it is a different AMG S-Class. But if quality is restored, people won't really complain and the value of the three pointed star will remain high. Right now the value is still high no matter what the media says. Mercedes owners pay an average of $6,000 more than BMW owners. The problem is that Mercedes has very high operating costs (the engineers get paid way too much) and R&D expenses, all that cuts into profits. Since quality is being worked on, I believe the company will be in top shape again soon.

TiMerc

Sorry, I'm lazy. Did you ever get the S320 in the states before the S350?

I think the S320/S350 make perfect sense, at least here in Aust.

S350 SWB: $A177,900 $US133,425
S430 SWB: $A207,900 $US155,925
S430 LWB: $A226,900 $US170,175

However, even in the USA, i think its still great market segmentation, esp since as pointed out above its a simple engineering exercise.

DISCLAIMER: My parents have an S320 - and as is probably typical of S320 owners, they could not give a sh*t about cars at all. It is just a car to them. They will probably drive it for 20 years or something unless some salesman manages to track down my father independent of my mother...

braverichard

There was a W140 S320 for the US market. No W220 S320. This W220 S350 will only last for a year any way.

FThornton666

saw an S350 at keyes, its so much smaller, i think its a joke. Id rather have a fully loaded E500 than a S350. Only think you get better are the S-Class seats imo. The Wheels are a joke too, the C-Class has better looking wheels than that.

TiMerc

Fully loaded E500 for the price of an S350! HA! If only.

If I were to be buying now I'd probably go for the E500, as you say. But the W220 came out before the W211 so I think my folks made the right decision at the time.

braverichard

Unfortunately it depends on what you're looking for. The E-Class is very small for me and if I were in the market for a brand new luxury sedan I'd definitely get the S350 since it is the cheapest means of getting a brand new full size Benz. However, I still think that price is pure robbery.

Xeon

when you look at it....the S350 made the CLS 500 look relatively cheap..

a new model..a more powerful engine..a reasonable rear space..for $2k more? thats a pretty easy choice right?

akbro93704

The E-class has equal rear legroom and more front leg and headroom than the S350

braverichard

But not as much head, shoulder, and elbow room and overall it feels more claustrophobic.

amb9800

Lol! Today I was looking through the mail and I found this little card from our local dealer (Rallye) about their amazing "exclusive deal" on the "ultimate luxury automobile," with a photo of an S600, with large text underneath saying "Drive a new 2006 S-Class for only $799 a month."

Then I turned the card and read "S350" and then below it, "3.7L 18-valve V6" and was like wtf did they do -- how the heck could they mess up an advertising campaign for an S430 that much? - wrong name, wrong engine...:p

So I decided to pay a visit to the W220 forum, and sure enough, here's this thread .

While I think the 350 might rake in a couple more sales for MB among the less-informed and less-performance-caring buyers in the luxury sedan market (a.k.a. mostly old people), it won't have any impact whatsoever on the rest of the market. Lexus' LS430 is still cheaper, and given a choice between an SWB S350 and an LS430, I'd much rather take the latter...

braverichard

Two things: indeed, the LS430 gets you so much bang per buck and that's why its sales have been increasing year after year. But to say the S350 will rake in sales among the less-informed is wrong. There are many people that would do anything to gain admission to the three pointed star owners club. If I were in the market for a full size car and wanted only a Mercedes-Benz, this S350 would make it even cheaper and easier for me to get one.

amb9800

That pretty much falls into either of the two categories I mentioned.
Most people looking to do that or to "do anything to gain admission to the three pointed star owners club" would tend to buy a used W220 S430 or 500, rather than a new 350, which is smaller and would cost quite a bit more than a recent 220...

braverichard

You're wrong once again. Anyone who knows anything about these W220 should also be aware of the fact that owning one outside the factory warranty is a big risk. But what if you get a used S430 that still has a warranty you may ask? Well, that would be just as effective, except some people really value being the first owners of their cars. To those people, the S350 would have been perfect. Also, some people, like my aunt, find the long wheelbase W220 to be too long and would rather have a short wheelbase one. To those people, the S350, with its lower fuel consumption and lower maintenance costs (a six cylinder engine will always be cheaper to own than an eight cylinder engine) would seem like a good choice.

superflysocal

the question for me is will the s350 go for 10k below sticker near the end of the year to make room for the new models like the s430 and s500 did last year?


then things will definitely get interesting.

braverichard

Maybe yes, maybe no. I read from somewhere online that they aren't planning to sell many anyway. The purpose of that model was to reduce the amount of sales that will be lost as potential S-Class customers just wait for the release of the newly redesigned model. You know, the usual model change over loss.

amb9800

Obviously -- that's the case with any MB nowadays.

Lol - not many people on a strict budget line would value being the first owner so much as to pay tens of thousands of dollars more for that privelege. Cars like these tend to lose a lot of value the moment you drive out of the stealership, and that's why getting one with only a couple thousand miles on it (and in perfect condition of course) is often a much better solution money-wise for these models. You're not the one who's absorbing the first-mile depreciation.

This is a bit different for extremely new MB models (e.g. only the W164 ML and maybe the CLS at this point) or for relatively new cars from other companies (e.g. even Toyota), which seem to be able to hold their own in terms of initial value a lot better. When we were looking at getting our Sienna, for example, the similarly-equipped used '04 cars with 0-10k miles were actually the same price or more expensive than the price you could work out (if you negotiate well) on a new '05. On our ML back in '02, though, we bought it with 2k miles - for about $10k less than what it would cost out the door of the stealership.

In most cases like this, people would likely take something like an E-Class, or now if they're more inclined to, a CLS, for less or the same money, respectively. The 220 is an old car, and even with the old 3.7L V6, it's not at all the epitome of fuel efficiency lol. A mid or upper-range E-Class is a much better choice in this range if you are buying an MB sedan.

braverichard

That's true about many people, but when I'm ready for my S-Class, I wouldn't mind paying $20,000 more just to be the original owner. Afterall, this is a car that I value more than any other car out there. In fact, I had a friend whom I advised to purchase a certain used Toyota Avalon. I took him to the dealership where he saw the car and drove it and we had decided that he was going to get it. The next day he called me and said he purchased a brand new one. To him being the first owner was worth the extra $6,000 he paid for a similarly equipped car and he didn't even factor in the depreciation when he made that decision. With MB not offering free maintenance anymore, some if not most owners are going to stop doing all their maintenance religiously. That thus makes any new MB purchase even more risky!!

Why aren't you looking at these things with a broad point of view? Sorry, but what about the huge, short rich guy who wants the width of the S-Class but not the length of the long wheelbase one? The E-Class feels far narrower than the S-Class, even though on paper the difference in widths isn't that big - it definitely feels big, I've driven both cars!! These wide variety of people exist you know, just ask a car salesman. The W220 is an old car for you, however many people will drive it and love the way it drives and to them it is as new as they will ever want. For the 3.7L V6, efficiency isn't necessarily one of its strengths, considering the S430 gets the same EPA city mpg rating and actually gets 1 mpg better on the highway according to EPA ratings (thanks to having the 7-GTRONIC). However, for someone who wants the width of the S-Class but not the length of the long wheelbase one, the S350 becomes a good choice and when you factor in its modest fuel consumption. Coupled with a not too shabby performance, it looks even better. Well for what its worth, my aunt ended up purchasing the E320 CDI but only because she felt the S-Class was too long and she was happier with the much lower monthly payment on the E-Class as well as the awesome fuel consumption ratings.

Incendiary

braverichard, I'm with you. I've been agitating for SWB S-class options for a while now. If Audi can offer their A6 as a LWB (first mid-size LWB I've ever heard of) option in China, I don't see why MB can't offer SWB S-classes in the US.

superflysocal

I disagree. I was convinced I wanted an E class before I came to the dealer. When I got there I test drove both E and S class each for about 1.5 days. I was disappointed with how much the E class feel so claustrophobic in the back, especially if you have to put a carseat for an infant. I ended up with a S class, but was thinking that it was a little too long. If a swb version was offered at the time, i would have taken it in a heartbeat.

The S offers little things that i find I cannot live without. For one, the seats are truly what one expects in a luxury car (unlike the E stiff seats). The pneumatic assist door closing is indispensable. Remember, these are options that cannot be upgraded with the E (not by dealer or factory anyway).