S55inPA

hi guys,

is the Lexus LS 430 a better vehicle?

E430 George

In terms of quality and reliability.........most likely.
In terms of looks......absolutely not, looks boring and simple.

Never driven the L.S.........but i would imagine it is not that much fun to drive, then again maybe someone on here who has driven one or owns one can tell us.

Mr.PS

Recently drove one it was ok nothing special very underpowerd. The interior was well ok very bland good build quaity and materials the car is not with 70k IMO. I test drove the 2006 GS300 AWD today it was the same amount monthly as a 2005 E500 sport $(860) a month and I was very un impressed the sales person attempted to tell me all the flaws he has heard about Mercedes, sl500 tops not opening e55k engine failures etc.. The lexus was slow the interior was once again nice but the sunroof rattled and rear view mirror made nasty creaks and cracks. The ride was also stiff but it wasnt sports like a BMW it was more flimsy/hard. Good car for maybe lower 40's but for the 50k price tag it wasnt worth it.


Sorry to get off topic but I just gave my little lexus opinion.

Messerchmidt

MB still has the best sedans, problem for them has been reliability. MBs sedans will out handel lexus sedans, and will usually out run them. Lexus is a different kind of luxury, quiet, smooth,etc. Everything in a lexus is balanced and has moving mounts to minimize vibrations from the road. They don't have LS430 AMGs, if you want one of those, Lexus is not your car.

The lexus 430 v8 engine is not under powered, it is optimized for a smooth ride. If you want low end grunt and ***** you need an American V8 (LS6) or a German performance V8 (E55 or M5 v10 engines for example). The LS is also a damn heavy luxury car, not a GTR. Compared to an C55 AMG is will feel sluggish, but it is not a slow car. It will outrun a Maxima 3.5L and probably a regular E500.

Jap v8s suck gas though, worse then the German and American ones, just to warn you. If you do not care, then this is irrelivant.

It is cheaper then the E/S 430s/500s, but does not have all the nice gizmos,etc that the MBs have. the interior is not a nice, Camry styleized in there,etc. Lexus uses great leather though. I think better quality stuff then MB, and the seats are comfy.

It is larger inside then the 1998 S430 I rode in a few times (have not gone for a ride in the newer ones yet). The sound system is just as good. The handeling is not as good as MB or BMW, but you have almost no body roll in a LS430 and you hardly feel any bumps. It is a damn nice car.

The major thing Lexus has is reliability. If you trade your car in every 2-3 years then buy whatever. If you keep them longer, the Lexus will go 7-10 years without any major problems. Don't know if the MBs will do that. Also in terms of resale value, Lexus #1.

Once MB starts making indesructable cars again (1980-85 300D style), they will take the market back from lexus.

lexus is still not as prestegious as MB, but that does not make it a bad car.

The 3L v6 Lexus engines that they toss into thier GS, Es,etc are slow pigs. But they will do they job if you drive to the office and to like Mcdonalds every so often. Hell a civic will do that.

djantlive

LS has better electronics & gagets from Nav to massage seats. Plus, the electronics won't fail like your COMMAND unit in MB.

LS is comparable to S series in comfort.

LS does not offer high performance models like S55. LS doesn't look sporty. It makes up that with lower price point and better reliability and resale value.

Bottom line:

Go with LS is you consider S430.

Go with S55 if you want power and looks.

S500 vs LS430? It depends if you want more prestige or more reliability. They are comparable and your preference will drive your decision.

Messerchmidt

the BMW and MB people like to beat down on Lexus, the car is on the same level.
Lexus, Infiniti and Accura are as nice as MB/BMW, but more reliable.

Djantlive is right. IF your thinking about the S/E55 AMG, please don't make the mistake of buying it new. Buy it a year old for under half price.

Dema

If you consider better like cheaper, then yes. If you consider quality, style, reliability, prestige, then LS is worst choice. Consider 745, or XJ, but never LS. Friend of mine bought LS reading stupid Internet posts from people who never driven it and he regrets about the purchase. He had the car many times in shop including electronic problems.

Modeer

The new LS, 04 and 05, is definitely worth taking a look at. it is probably of the same S quality, maybe a little less - by this much ' ', but looking at the difference in prices and the difference in features, especially interior (touch screen nav screen, automatic swivelling AC vents), the new tail pipes, the new non-camry like wheels, all of these just give the Lexus another feel. Colors to consider (dark brown, pearl white, and black...classy -- don't know the official names).

I still love the Benz more, but since MB will soon release a new S, and the LS430 has been there for ony about a year and some (though Lexus new model turnover is faster) i would consider the LS.

absent

That subject was beat to death a while ago .
Different experience for different personalities.
LS430=Viking stove
S Class= Wolf stove

Messerchmidt

depends how long you plan on keping the car, trade it every 1-3years get the benz-ito. keep it longer, lexota, is the general rule.

BMW is nice, I would stay away from the jags.

absent

BTW,while a Viking is a nice stove(better then a Whirlpool),no professional Chef would be caught dead with it,they all go for the Wolf.
Draw your own conclusions.

ruykava

definitely MB is the better car. yes, lexus is reliable etc etc, but servicing costs no less when something goes wrong, and also it jz FEELS like an upgraded camry, whereas an MB feels like a car designed for luxury from the start.
one major reason why lexus have less electrical problems is because everything is not integrated together: the radio is one thing, the sat-nav is another, the instrument binnacle is another, lights are another, etc. on a merc, many things are interlinked -- which is great from a usaebility standpoint, but more complicated to fix if it goes bad. being a previous LS430 owner, i'd say the extra i pay for the S goes towards its ingenuity, better performance, and much better design -- well worth it IMHO.

btw the leather in lexus', in my own experience at least, feels good but is hell to clean when it gets dirty my uncle now drives his around with plastic sheeting on :P

DMI+RY

R U Kiddin'?
Level of what?

If you want a "vehicle" - you probably better with Toyota offspring.
If you want the Car - Mercedes and (NOTE! prior to ugly new 7-series style) BMW.

SouthernSon

Bmw 7 series and Jags are just a half notch better than the MB in reliability which is to say 'not very reliable'. Stay away from them and get a good Lexus. Anyone that has had a problem with a Lexus probably bought a junker, abused used one.

ruykava

i bought my lexus LX470 new, and its air suspension was definitely not working after a year of relatively mild usage. i sold it off. though have to say it was way more reliable than my previous Range Rover.

i said it before and i say it again, if all you want is something trouble-free and reliable, you might be interested in lexus. if you've any passion for design, or intend to love your car at all, it shouldn't even be under consideration. ideally of course the two should come together: i've might have been lucky in that none of my Mercs ever had any problems which diluted the enjoyment (a flickering door light on my S, and a buzzing from the dash after a minor accident on my E). perhaps left-hand drives Mercs have a worse quality record?

ano0oj

I love the LS430, I'd get that hands down if I had a choice between that and an S

Messerchmidt

This it all dependson how much $ you have. Any of these cars (BMW, Jag, Lexus) is good if you trade it in after 2-3 years.

if you plan on keeping the car longer, Lexus is probably a better machine. Not to mention, it holds its resale value. Try selling a 5 year old S-class, you need a special buyer because everyone knows howmuch those things cost to fix.

go test drive all of them, pick the one you like. Just make sure that you can afford to fix whatever you get if you keep it a long time.

silverS

I was considering a Lexus LS430 and a Mercedes Benz S430 and no matter how I looked them, S430 was a clear winner. Better styling, better performance, better everything. That is until I got "check engine" warning light which neither the dealer or my mechanic was able to successfully diagnose. At times like these, I think of getting the LS430. I think I want both. But if I get a LS430, I am definitely getting an ultra trim. I can't resist options like power rear seats and refrigerator.

Dema

Check new Avalon. It seems to be better than LS. It inherits also interior design from 7 series.

lkirchner

The refrigerator is a joke; it can't even keep a can of coke cool. In addition the Ultra rides like it is suspended with marshmallows even on sports setting. That's besides the point here are my thoughts.

I own both; had a S500 traded on a S55 ('03) and a LS 430 ('04). Let me give you my un-biased point of view based on the S500 not the S55.
Fit and finish:
Paint---- Lexus much smoother, less orange peel but soft as all get out; chips if you look at it wrong. Also very susceptible to acid rain etching. MB seems much more durable

Windshield Glass--- Lexus follows the paint in durabilty soft and susceptible to chipping. MB appears to be more durable.

Seating----Lexus leather much softer and smoother. MB more grainy and harder to the feel. Lexus seats also very soft with little support. Feel great on short trips; tiring on longer hauls. MB much more firm, more support, almost tireless on longer trips.

Interior fit and finish and controls. Hands down to Lexus. Controls make sense in the Lexus. Somewhat counter-intuitive in the MB's. However, what other language would say seven and fifty for 57? Maybe the controls are intuitive in German.

Nav Systems---- Lexus more intuitive in color and utilizes touch screen MB improved but still poor.

Ride and Handling--- Lexus (with the sports suspension) soft, quiet smooth, handles better than the standard Lexus. On the road is almost whisper quiet and at idle ---silent. MB more firm, good handling for a sedan as big as this (this is based on the S500, S55 is in a league of its own); a little noisier at highway speeds and at idle.

Steering---- Lexus has almost no road feel to it; somewhat numb. MB hands down in this category

Fun to Drive---Lexus is fun to ride MB is fun to drive

Engine Performance The Lexus feels as quick if not quicker than the S500. If you look at the manufacturers claims the Lexus is 5.9 sec 0 to 60 while the S is 6.1. I'd call this one a toss up.

Standard equipment--- Lexus Nav, rear backup camera, rear sunshade that retracts when put in reverse and extends upward when put in drive, heated and ventilated seats in front, heated in rear, electrically folding side mirrors, electric seat belt height adjusters, 6 in Dash CD player, Hd lights, Clever side door storage and rear seatstorage compartments, wood and leather shift knob, multi contour seats, parktronic. While you can get almost all of this on a Benz each item is optional. The lexus 430 with all of the aforememntioned items plus Lexus chrome wheels had a window of $66,000. An S 500 equipped the same without chrome is currently priced at $94,000. Convenience for price in this area Lexus hands down.

Sound system--- The Lexus Mark Levinson system is over-rated. The Bose system isn't the greatest either. Tie

Styling--- Lexus plain and rather boring. MB still looks good after 6 model years.

These are 2 totally different cars and the price reflects it. My wife loves the LS, I prefer the S but my favorite is my recently acquired '05 SL 55 (on which I traded a Lexus SC 430). I have owned MB's continuously for 37 years and am somewhat biased. I thought I would give Lexus a fair shot but probably won't go back again regardless of their "price advantage". After owning the LS for about 1 year, I don't really have anything to dislike or say bad about it but I can't say I am head over heels in love with it. For what it is worth do not get me started on their marvelous service and customer satisfaction.

To sum it up; "The "Ultimate Pursuit of Perfection" is merely a marketing phrase; it should be changed to "The Ultimate Pursuit of Ho Hum but Done Very Well". Probably would not fly with the PR Department.

Lou K :

vraa

Haha.

This topic cannot be beaten to death any more

Define better please?

<-- Had a LS400, now has a LS430.

digital_b

look around and you will see that IRREFUTABLY the ls 430 is far superior to the s430. EVERY comparo in the last 2 years sees the benz either last or next to last while the writers grudgingly [and I mean GRUDGINGLY] give the lexus higher marks if not the outright category win. I was a huge benz fan and the s class was my dream car when I owned an ml320 but then after reading about the s class problems [numerous] and listening to mb employees complain about how they continue to lose customers to lexus and how they cant blame them since they regularly see the same people for the same problems I had to reconsider the ls 430 which I thought was a boat and a poor copy of the s class. while there is no question that the ls is plainly derivative of the s class it is also a far better car. amg not withstanding. I will match my 01 ultra luxury against any s430 or s500 for features, build quality, luxury, and reliability. the only thing the s class has over my ls besides looks, and this is a real stretch, is passenger side memory controls in the front seat. yay. you can disparage the ls all you want subjectively but the war is over. the s class loses and nothing you can say will change it. the reviewers agree and so do many happy ls 430 owners such as myself. your car is not a luxury car if its in the shop regularly. and god, dont even say anything if your s class is my 00-02. you have lemons! and thats being kind. oh and for the lunatic who thinks the mark levinson stereo isnt so great, do yourself a favor and finish going deaf. that is the first negative thing I have ever seen or heard about what is acknowleged to be the finest factory stereo option extant. of course on the internet facts dont mean very much so think what you want.

FThornton666

Ive Driven an LS430, and a S500. The LS430 is very quiet, almost scary, but im not into that. The steering was unresponsive, the car just gave no feedback. It was like floating on the cloud i will give that. You cant even hear the engine, so if you want the ultimate touring sedan, id say the LS is that. If you want a car thats more responsive then id say the S-Class is for you. If you want a sporty, yet refined car then the XJ or the 7 series is for you. I havent been in or driven an A8 yet, so i cant respond on that one.

One thing i dont like about Lexus or Acura. Their interior are all the same. Nor do i like the quality of leather lexus/acura use. It shows wear alot quicker than the MB cars. BMW has the same issue i believe, then again the BMW wear could be from something else since they are sporting cars.

The Mark Levinson sound system is very good too, i love it. Perfect for classical or music with more treble. Reminds me of the Harmon Kardon 12 speaker system you can get in E-Classes.

digital_b

the harmon system should remind you of the levinson since harmon international makes both of them as well as the logic 7 in the 7 series. there is no way in hell that the leather in an s class can match the leather in the ultra luxury ls 430. and acura is in no way in the same category as lexus or infiniti for that matter since they make most of their vehicles for sale in the us here in the us. I owned an 04 tl which was nice but it was just a spiffed accord without rain sensing wipers or auto headlights what a 34k car should have. weak.

FThornton666

i like Mercedes leather better than Lexus because it seems to hold up better to time.