c131frdave

This is my second thread. My previous thread guided me to decide to purchase an S class.

My budget is $20k, unfortunately, so my S class will be an older S class, but older is better than none, right?

Anyway, I had found a 2000 S430 for what ended up being $10,000, but I passed on it because a couple folks on this site told me that was too low for the car, even with 138,000 miles. It was missing badges, and wasn't factory paint, so who knows what really happened to it, though it did pass it's carfax check.

Well, now I found another one. I found a 2001 S600 with 100k miles. It still has it's factory paint, with a dozen or so chips in the front bumper cover and some hair scratches around the trunk and doors (typical 100k car). It's gorgeous inside, though the center console has the typical leather stretch marks from a heavy elbow pushing against it for 7 years. Everything works, no faults, and it rides like a dream. And it has power! Woot! (I'm selling my Corvette to help pay for the car and my new baby, so power is important to me.)

Question- Is a 2001 S600 with 100k miles worth $16,900? It seems a fair price, but I thought I'd run it by you guys to make sure. Anything with the S600 I should check for or be worried about? Thanks in advance.

newton22

Simply put, do not buy it.

I've heard of horrible experiences with pre-2003 S600s. I do not know if you can find a 2003+ S-class with your budget, but heed my advice and find a 2003+ S-class or don't buy a W220 S-class, period.

These cars are blonde, beautiful and big busted on the outside, but choosing the wrong one will haunt you for a long time.

Quadcammer

I can't put a big enough warning sign in front of you.

Not only will the early 600 still give you problems with the airmatic, you are now eschewing the bulletproof 5.0 V8 for a very problematic V12. Read up on the oil leaks and misfires. We are talking $8,000 repairs.

Im sorry to tell you this, but it does not appear that you are quite ready to afford to 220 S-class with that budget.

That budget will buy you a GREAT mercedes. The ones I would recommend would be a 00-02 E430 or a 96-99 S500. You will get a low mile, pristine example, not a banged up high miler. You will also get the great MB feeling and ownership experience without the threat of hugely expensive repairs.

abenner5

Agree with the above. I went thru the same decision tree about a year ago. Besides there is no comparison 2000-2002 vs. 2003+ power.

I tried them both, < 2003 is not impressive whereas 2003+ really pushes you back, gives you 0-60 quicker than E55 W211 once you make the ECU changes. (Still feels slower since is bigger car, but is actually faster....strange.)

You can get 2003 model for 25-30K now with 40-50K miles on it. If you wait until Nov or so I am sure you can get lower mileage one for < $25K. The price is dropping like a rock as the $4/gal gas mileage kicks in big time! This is in your favor, probably save $1000 each month you wait.

IMO get one with warranty, even aftermarket, for peace of mind. You will love the car but need to check it out thoroughly w/vin/star code, etc to ensure no hidden gotchas.

Check the interior re: 500 vs 600 as well. There are a lot of upgrades you will get additionally by waiting for the 600, eg ABC, full leather everywhere, active/ventilated/heated/ortho seats, dual rear A/C, etc that are not on most 500's. Take off the V12 side symbol for the real sleeper

my06clk

To be perfectly honest with you and hopefully not too blunt..

no matter where you look, all you are going to find for 20K is a problem S class. It doesnt matter if its a 430, 500 55 600 or whatever. if its a 2000-2002,
prepare to work on it. A lot to get it up to speed. These cars are just a problem point blank. There is nothing maintenance free about them.

Now as OliverK stated, you can get a GREAT benz for that money.. I found a 2003 E class recently on Autotrader for 10K, and I know where there is a really nice problem right now for around 11K. Its a really loaded e500 but has a bad title history. I know the car well and was going to buy it but I need to sell my S.

Speaking of which..( Plug )

If you had 9 grand more I would let you have my pristine baby and probably deliver it to you as long as you don't live in Hawaii.

My opinion is that if you can't get at least a 2004 then you should stay away from the S class unless you are pretty good with a wrench.

I'm a very experienced technician and these cars aren't the hardest to work on, but there are some things that you simply have to get to the dealer to resolve. Thats just the way it is with these cars..

WHen you keep having to go for things you can't fix it can really add up.

Statistically Most of these posts with problems with airmatics, coil packs, engine leaks, etc. are mostly the 2000 thru 2002 430 and 500 and with the S600 engines. THere are issues with 2003-2006, but very minimal by comparison.

So If you heart is set on an S, I would wait till my money got a little greener and get a better quality model year.

c131frdave

Ok, thanks. But what if I am good with a wrench?

I've been building hot rods and E-type Jaguars for over 20 years. I'm not afraid of any engine, transmission, or electronic component. The car I am currently driving is the ONLY car I have ever in my life left stock- it's a Corvette. I've installed superchargers, turbochargers, nitrous, resized engines, built countless engines from scratch, and even created my own electronic multi-port fuel injection system.

The only real worries I would have about the mechanics are getting my hands on a service manual, and the availability of parts. However, it would be nice not to have to work on a car at all. You'd think Mercedes flag ship car would be solid as a rock. My father's Cadillac has all the bells and whistles that these S cars do, and he hasn't had any problems at all, nor has any of his friends with theirs...


That being said, I think I've come to realize from all your posts that Mercedes cars just aren't up to the quality standards I'm used to. Perhaps an Audi....

Quadcammer

your post comes off as sour grapes.

I am a quite experienced "technician" myself. I've done trannies, engine builds, superchargers, turbos, etc. While labor on these cars certainly stings, its the parts that are pricey. Each airmatic strut is about $2,000. Coil packs for an S600 are about $900 each. So even if you do all the work, you are still going to be paying a lot.

Your fathers cadillac simply did not have all (id say not even the majority) of the options the S-class did in 2000. Maybe the 05 Caddy had these features, but there is a reason the S class is considered the technological innovator.

Now heres where I have to be a bit rude:

You are trying to scrape the BOTTOM of the barrel. You are looking at the absolute cheapest S-classes out there, and are "surprised" when they have issues? The car cost almost $100k new. You want to pay less than 1/5th of that. What the hell do you expect? You are looking at high mileage, first year cars (a big deal on a car like this), and now want to throw in a cheap shot about quality. If you want to experience Mercedes quality, try doubling your budget, and buying an 05-06. If you can't do that, then maybe you should be looking at cadillacs.

Bottomline, I've twice offered you reliable solutions to your problem (nice mercedes in great shape for under $20k, 00-02 E class, 96-99 S-class) and you've ignored it. You are simply unwilling to listen.

Maybe an audi will be better for you, but don't expect it to drive like an S-class.

good day sir.

1985mb

I'm not sure how your previous thread guide you towards buying an S class, especially a W220.

If your budget is 10-12k upfront (w/ another 8-10k disposable for repairs), get a pristine, low-mileage W124 or W210 E class. The older cars are much more DIY-friendly and simpler to work on. And the S-class parts are probably more expensive.

If you want something unique, get the W124 AMG Hammer that's on sale in the classifieds section. Asking price IIRC is 12500

c131frdave

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound cross. I've just never come accross a web site where everyone says their car is the best in the world, but it constantly falls apart. I would expect that if you pay $100k for a car, that it would last forever regardless of how many gadgets are installed. If the gadgets fail, why would a company who has a reputation of high quality put them on their cars? You aren't a technology leader or an innovator if you put out junk.

I think these cars must be better cars that what you all have seen. Perhaps you all have lemons. I just find it hard to believe that Merc could stay in business if their cars are as crappy as you all suggest. It's mind boggling.

But perhaps you are right and I am being too optomistic as usual. After all, I can think of no other car that loses value as fast as an S class. I guess from reading these posts that the radical drop in value is justified.

bmurphywa

Remember that there are many satisfied S220 owners out there who spend their energy enjoying their cars and lives and don't see the point of posting "everything's fine here." Not to say that discussions of a car's fault's aren't warranted and even helpful, just that any forum isn't the place to take an unbiased poll.

Skylaw

bmurphywa is absolutely correct. Tongue-in-cheek, I mention occasionally that contributors don't write in to say their car is just great, and nothing bad happened today. Indeed, why should they? It's what's expected. Here, you see the problems, and hopefully, solutions. But you don't see a balance, and that's not the point of the forum.

For one effort at balance, see http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...look-out.html; and for a bit of fun, see https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w220/253789-100-000-miles.html

But with a limited budget, the S600 is possibly not your best choice.

my06clk

If you don't want to hear the answer, then its best not to ask the question....

The last line of your original posted said "Anything with the S600 I should check for or be worried about?" and that's exactly what you were told.. Now you sound bitter about the advice? I find that mind boggling.

Just buy the car and live with it.. and quit wasting our time.. Trust me.. you'll be chiming back in later on, then nobody will want to deal with you.. I know I won't.

BTW.. I am totally happy with my car.. Its not a 2000 though...

onelightmind

Here is the truth from myperspectave... tke as you will because you obviously want the car. However, I urge you to listen....

2002 Cl600 V12 .... same as the s class in almost all components

Atleast 5 Active body control high pressure hoses ranging from $500 repairs to 700... not covered under most aftermarket warranties. It is very tricky to bleed and repressure the system safely in regards to the pump which can go out any time one of these hoses does...like the time one blew out on my mom which sounded like a gunshot... it tore the plastic under the car.... the dash lit up ABC see shop and dropped to the ground...

Engine control modules... $1100 minimum ... I have had BOTH go out and when they do the engine limps to the shop... not fun

Washer fluid pump... $600

Rear sunscreen motor $400

Service A or B usually 200- 1000 and that 100K mi car probably has not had the spark plugs changed $800 the entire engine has to be torn down...possibly by you but don't expect it to be like a chevy

Broken fog lamp lens... $250 part... no bull****

Seat locking mechanism...$400 and this is a problem b/c the information screen shows a red seat forward and you can not use the cars computer until it is fixed

Replaced the brakes myself and decided to upgrade to vented slotted rotors and dustless pads... 4 or 500

Dropped it myself for $70.00 and wrote a thread about it "the $70 drop" which applies to S class also

So you can buy a program off ebay to help you fix the car if you so choose, but I would save and get an 03+ as they have 496hp and hella tork b/c of the biturbo upgrade that 01 has 370hp and it is hard to make it much faster
some guy on ebay sells the program for the biturbo 130 hp upgrade for $1200 or so... as I wanted to buy one for my 02 and he said save your money sell the car get an 03 and call me... he was being honest... fortunately someone totaled mine and i am looking for an 03+ s600 or cl600

Please listen to me when i say you will not be happy in the end if you get an 01 or 02 you will always long for the 03 as I had... with the ECU upgrade it IS a supercar that can smoke a gallardo... SO throw that 20k down on an 03+ and get a warranty you will thank me later...

Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day after all I loved my car... and still hve a special place in my heart for my first mercedes and V12, it was fast and is a great smooth and smooth shifting and handling ride cornered beautifully stopped great, hell the side airbags worked perfect but I have always wanted a supercar with all of the aforementioned... listen to me man wait and learn.... there are many many people here to help you... we love ours cars when they are not in the shop ... PM me if you need some current auction prices so you can find a price floor to negotiate down to...

oh it sucks when some highschool kid in a crappy little pontiac GTO smoke your pre 03 V12... trust me

AH1W-COBRA

if you are looking for reliability than buy a 1967 vw beetle and restore it to like new condition,if it wont start it is either fuel or ignition and you can fix /troubleshoot either of the problems with a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.The S600 was designed for the "super wealthy".the first model years had some issues.it is true that $20k isnt going to get you enough S class to make you and your new family happy about buying one.and i think you are confusing reliability and cost of ownership.The S class is one of the most reliable autos in the "world".thats why anyone who wants to ride in the safest,quietest,most luxurious high performance"pasenger cars" in the world choose the S class.All the reasons you have for wanting the S are real and those of us who own them are reaping the benefits on a daily basis.The S class is an icon of financial success,you shouldent try to reap the benefits without paying the dues.im not hacking on you,if you want an S class than go to a dealer and buy a cpo car for $35k and you will love it.it may change your future because you will have to figuer out a way to "make" more money to enjoy it.as for the AUDI,go and test drive the A4,you get what you pay for.

manano

Well said ah1w-cobra !!!!!