marktan

Is it me or does it seem this cooler weather brings out the worst in the S600 with misfires? Guess I just joined the club!

I've got about 80k miles on the clock now, engine was running flawlessly until the other day when I took my daughter out for a driving lesson. She peformed what I thought was overly cautious (painfully slow) acceleration from a stop sign. So I told her to "go ahead and get on the gas!" and she looked at me and said "Dad, it's floored". !?!?! Just then the engine sputters, starts running really rough, and throws the Check engine light. So I get into the drivers seat, turn off and restart the car. CEL is still lit, but engine is running smoother, just no power, so I drive us home in what I can only describe as limp-home mode with all gears available.

Took it to the mecanic the next day to pull codes = multiple misfires. I didn't ask for the specific cylinders, but he suggested I replace the plugs first. So I replaced all 24 of them, which by their look, needed to be done anyway. Unfortunately, the car still misfires. So I'm probably going to bring it back to find out which cylinders are acting up...I'm just guessing a coil is shot.

Needless to say I'm getting that "Really??" look from my wife. I'll be following all the other "S600 misfire" posts closely to see how everyone else fares.

My one question is this: I was considering an ECU tune, but came across the link indicating that "1 in 5 car's coils get shot after the tune." Were these "Deaths" attributed to tunes done on vehicles with higher miles and "well used" coil packs? Do you think the odds any better with a brand new one installed, or am I risking throwing money away getting new coil packs, getting a tune, and having them burn?

Thanks!

Sgt. Schultz

Sorry to hear of your woes.

And I'm almost sorry for quoting Jerry on that 1in5 bit... tho I sure wish I'd known that prior to doing my tune. I'd have certainly ensured I had my warranty in place prior to doing the tune had I known that gem of wisdom 8-/.

I have 54k and the coil failed about 1.5 weeks after the tune. And I think have had a coil or 2 replaced before - I have to double check my VMI, forget all the detail.

I don't blame Jerry - at all... I blame my self on being uninformed I guess.

Realistically, fact is for me - taking advantage of the price break offered at the time, and, having a spare car still around to use while ECU was out made it make very good sense to proceed despite the lack of warranty.

Apparently it seems to be these things are said to fail every 30k like clockwork. So yours @ 80k if having not been done ever before were on borrowed time.

I'd say replace, do the tune, enjoy 30k out of 'em.

Good luck!

Vabene7

I agree with Sgt Shultz. Coil packs go often anyway, even with the car not being tuned.
I can't say enough about my tune. It transformed my car. But the reason I am not worried about the coils packs dying off is my warranty....

Frank_S500

Hi There.

If i remember correctly, MB advises to change the gaskets A00015980 to each spark plug each time when removing the coil pack (and clean it).
If the unit isnt fried yet, trying this this could be a last resort.

Cheers, Frank

Exotic-metal55

I know of several v12 that also lost the coils on the dyno, during a tune. Strange for that to happen but worst part is the amount to change all the coils out.

marktan

After changing the plugs, it still misfired, so I plugged my computer through the OBD port. It seems my entire left (drivers) bank of cylinders is still throwing misfire codes (p300, p307, p308, p309, p310, p311, p312). This is confirmed by the lack of any heat from that side of the engine when I tried running it (right bank warmed up quickly, left was stone cold). I'm now assuming the coil is shot, so I ordered one from Standard Motor Products with a 2-year warranty via Amazon.com/Prime (figured if I had a warranty or return issue, Amazon has always been good). The coil pack should arrive on Thursday. I saw Frank's comment above about the insulators. Since I have a couple days before the coil arrives, I may try removing and replacing the existing ones just to see if by some miracle it remidies the situation and I can save myself not only the $1100, but all the "fine" and "whatevers" I'm getting from my lovely wife.

My friend, a Ford mechanic, also suggested looking at the camshaft position sensor, but he also said he was not familiar with the single coil-multiple cylinder setup.

What strikes me as odd was the sudenness of the failure...one moment running fine, next moent totally dead; no sputters or sign of failure in-between. Is that consistent with the coil failure? Also, on a side note, can someone explain to me WHY M-B designed this engine with a single coil pack for each 6 cylinders on this car? Out of fear, I looked at the other car and see that the E500 has (and I recall, the C32 had) "individual ignition packs" over each cylinder with an A-B plug lead, which makes more sense to me from a maintenance standpoint.

BryanW203

Has anyone looked into fixing the coil packs?

Is it known what goes wrong internally?

marktan

I'm pleased to announce that installing a new coil-pack solved the misfire issue! We are back to FULL POWER!

Thanks to the forum for all the information needed to diagnose and replace these myself!

Sgt. Schultz

NOICE!

Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.

Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.

Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?

marktan

There were many, especially when resarching the problem (searched "s600 misfire", "s600 coil pack", "M275 misfire" "CEL P300", etc. but this one with the photos definitely helped a lot.

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-pictures.html

I did take photos of my removal of the coils and sparkplugs, more for my piece of mind to keep track of things removed, but not sure if they are worth posting or not...

Sgt. Schultz

awesome - thanks hugely!

marktan

Apparently I'm not out of the woods yet ...I just started getting a P302 cylinder #2 misfire yesterday. It was NOT misfiring prior to the replaceent of the left coilpack. Seems to go away if I shut her down and re-start, but it has happened 3 times now...wondering if the failure of the one coilpack stressed and messed up the other, or if they go out in pairs? At least it's not the whole bank like the last one. How long has yours been acting up? Anything in particular that sets it off?

tusabes

always need to change in pairs

Sgt. Schultz

Since about 1.5wks after software install 8-/. 54k on car clean and otherwise sorted.

happens under load scenarios, bog or boost trigger it - stay out of those and baby it there's no miss

soon as you bog up a hill (need to downshift to avoid) or boost or come to stop and not pop in neutral (loads motor otherwise) - misfire

awesome

John Nouri said he'd help me out, waiting to hear back from him though nothing yet since

Good luck on your 2nd bank. Mine thus far's been consistent #5cyl and no other codes but destiny sucks I'm sure

MBNUT1

Bit of trivia here. My grandfather started that company with another partner. To bad he sold his share when my grandmother insisted on moving back to her home state of California.

Skylaw

What is it with our grandmothers? My grandfather once owned several thousand riverfront acres that my grandmother thought was "disreputable" because it was the site of dredge fill from the river. At her insistence, my grandfather sold it for almost nothing. Now, a major business district of Jacksonville, FL sits on the land - which completely surrounds the convergence of the Warren (I-95), Acosta and Main Street (Alsop) bridges - folks there call the property "South Jacksonville" (sometimes, "Southside").

She also talked him into selling the significant shares of stock he held in a small beverage company. She equated investment in stocks with gambling. So, for almost nothing, he sold his stock holdings in Pepsi.

Oh, well. She was a wonderful lady, but not much for investment advice.

Sgt. Schultz

update for moi

new OEM Temic passenger coil remedied the miss

install was easy enough, knuckle scraping fun!

classyS

i dont have me a v12 yet guys but just how long does it take to change out the coil packs?? i know its much easier on our n/a engines without a turbo but it seems like one should definitely know about these coil packs before owning a S600..

coil packs every 30k? mercedes s-600? its worth it.

MBNUT1

I thought about my comment on the way home. Given that my dad met my mom in California I guess I'm lucky that she did insist on moving back.

marktan

My indy mechanic quoted removal of both coil packs and replacing all 24 spark plugs at 6.5 hours on his All-Data system. I had them removed in 3 and installed in 2 (although I can honestly say 1 hour was spent fishing multiple dropped bolts and ratchets from under the car). It also involved replacing a pressure sensor that I managed to break when pulling aside the right intercooler to get to the coil pack.

When I continued to get the left 7-12 bank misfire after replacing the plugs, I was able to remove just the left coil pack in about 20 minutes and put back together in about 40 (including swapping the heat shield and being VERY gentle pushing and seating the pack into the engine...also two bolts dropped and retrieved AGAIN).

I'm getting a cylinder 2 misfire now if I take the engine over 4500 rpm, but have managed to drive about 300 miles keeping it under 4k with no issues at all. This is obviously no fun to do, so I'm planning on replacing the right coil pack in the next week or so when I can find some extra time. Until then I'll just baby it or steal my wife's E500. I'll update when completed.

classyS

its ok but i agree just steal her E500 for right now, keep us updated!!

Sgt. Schultz

LOL! You just saved me a bunch of typing should I ever need to describe my experience swapping in a new right bank coil pack 2nites ago. TOO FUNNY.

I didn't drop any bolts for once / surprisingly - but I totally busted that verysame MF'ing NIPPLE! JB welding it back on took as long/longer than the whole coil job. I rule tho.

Skin? Knuckles / hands? Who needs it.

8-)

The job's real easy, the 2nd time will be a breeze. Just need to be methodical and get a system down and it goes real quick.

So, you've replaced both coils / all plugs / all boots - and you're still getting a #2 miss? Miles?

Good luck. Enjoy the 500 until then 8-).

Oh... fahhkin SCHWEET!!!!! My MPG's just hiked by about 5 (*FIVE*) since the swap. BOINGoingOINGoingOING.

Not sure if they'll stay this high as I'm still not fully employing the sukker, but boyohboy is 18.something ennnnnnnntirely more palatable than 13.something... Eurocharged FTMFW!

marktan

Awesome to hear of the mileage boost! Hope it lasts for you. I'm averaging 17.X mixed. My daughter managed to get 24 on a 2 hour long stretch of country road going 50-55 (the joys of a learners permit). I'm lucky to see 20 if I'm trying.

To answer your question though, I had removed and replaced the original coils when I replaced the plugs (optimistically thinking the plugs would cure the misfiring...I was wrong). Then I just replaced the left coil pack. I haven't replaced the original right coil yet but now that I'm getting the #2 misfiring, it will need to be done. So that's next on the "do now" list.

I've got about 84k miles clocked, so I'm sure it's "due". In the last 12 months, I've replaced all the TPMS wheel sensors, the Dual Valve & aux pump assembly, the ACC pushbutton control unit, a hood spring, all three idler pulleys and drive belt, the 24 sparkplugs, and now the coil packs. Next on the "to do list": Tensioner pully (it's "whining"), yet another set of tires (Continental Extreme DWS - LOVE THEM!), brake pads, and probably front rotors when the brakes are done (also expected). And THEN, just maybe, the ECU tune.
I think that I will have to fertilize my money tree a lot more soon!