haoz129

Hi Everyone,

Looked into many nice write-ups in this great forum for several month before I decide to purchase my first MB. All information are very helpful and invaluable.
Can't image how much efforts all the members poured into here helping each others.

For me, S600 wins this time and I found a silver 2003 S600 with sport pkg, 80K miles, for $22000 CAD.
I fell in love with this car at the very first glance. It's so beautiful. After 2 test drive and DAS scan I secured the car 2 days before year end.
I'm very exciting and also know I'm facing some uncertainty.
This is my dream car as the V12 engine is an art for me more than a metal block. Not sure it'll brings me nice dream or nightmare.

Ok, here is some facts which need your advices. Hope none of them is a deal-breaker:
1) This car has 2 reported accident. One was small and the other costed $8000 to repair when it was one and half years old.
2) Check Engine was on but car drives great. Several related codes stored:
- P20E1 Charge air coolant circuit : Charge air temperature is too high. STORED
- P2050 Misfiring , Damages TWC (P0300) STORED
- P2056 Misfiring of cylinder 4, damages TWC (P0304) STORED
- P205B Misfiring of cylinder 8, damages TWC (P0308) STORED
- P20E7 N92/1 (ECI ignition module, right bank of cylinders) (P0300) STORED
- P2043 Misfiring (P0300) ( See currently valid STIP ) Current and stored
- P2049 Misfiring of cylinder 4 (P0304) ( See currently valid STIP ) Current and stored
- P204E Misfiring of cylinder 8 (P0308) ( See currently valid STIP ) STORED
- P201C B4/3 (Fuel tank pressure sensor) , Electrical fault (P0450, P0451, P0452, P0453) STORED
After Delete Fault Memory no Check Engine come back on a 10 miles highway trip.
Seems not an evident for bad Coil Pack.
3) Transmission seems fine but felt need more effort when backing up the vehicle than my Volvo. I never need push gas hard to backup with the Volvo. But felt apparently different on this MB S600.
4) Both side rear fenders have rust bubbles. Left side rust penetrated into door frame, size like a credit card. Hope I can go to the MB body shop asking for paint and let MB cover the cost since I read and know there is a campaign about rust.
5) Other codes can't be cleaned during DAS quick test:
- ESM - Electronic selector module
P1911 The link between control module N15/5 (Electronic selector lever module (ESM [EWM])) and the shift gate illumination is interrupted.
- DCM-FL - Doorcontrol module front left
B1521-005 Exterior mirror adjustment and heating : The mirror heater has Short circuit or open circuit.
- HSW - Heated steering wheel
B1010-001 The supply voltage of the control unit is too low (undervoltage).
- ESA-FL - Electricseat adjustment front left
B1006-003 No normalizing. No normalizing of backrest adjustment.
- OCP - Overhead control panel
B1066 SR is not normalized.

Will have the car inspected by a mechanic to collect more info. Especially want to know whether there is any leaking under engine or transmission.

Any advice and suggestion are very welcome and really appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Howard

S600Keith

Welcome haoz129!!

Like you, I have done my research before I got into purchasing such an elite car. I recently purchased my second 2003 S600. They are very difficult to find with only 15-30 for sale nationwide at any given time. I was looking for the 2003-2006 MYs in about the same price range you quoted. I had my heart set on a silver one (my first one was silver and they look more elegant to me, esp the sport pkg) but alas it was not to be. I could not make a deal with a doctor in PA for a silver one and ended up getting a black one from a guy in TX.

I must say that you have quite the list of problems associated with your car. If you have done ANY amount of surfing on this forum then you know that these cars are expensive to maintain and have many common problems (ABS failures, coil pack failures, PSE problems, EIS failures to name a few off the top of my head). Many of the most mundane repairs lead to more major and expensive problems.

It is hard to believe that your car comes with such a litany of issues. I would say that you have a great argument to renegotiate the price quite a bit if you haven't already signed some kind of purchase agreement and settled on price already. I got mine with a few more miles than you for under $17K. I would imagine that you should be looking under $20K and possibly even under $19K for a car in such condition.

I know it is a beautiful car, but don't fall in love with it. There are many others out that that have been babied by their previous owners and are in great shape with even more miles than yours. Please, take a minute to step back and take stock of your situation. You need to negotiate like you don't want the car, even though deep down this is your dream machine. You need to make an intelligent decision here. Take the time to make sure you are getting a good deal, OK?

SFBIGBODY415

I would stay away the list u put here is just the begging 80-100k is when most problems occur. Service on a s600 is REALLY REALLY EXPENSIVE i would wait and try to find a 600 that's been serviced

Fraser

My advice, don't walk but RUN away from that thing. All those codes and a rust bubble the size of a credit card?

haoz129

, Thanks Keith.

You are right, S600 is hard to find, especially for MY 2003-2006.
And, for price, this S600 was asked for CAD$24000. I did offered $19000 and negotiated from there, similar price as your suggested.
But I'm really not a good negotiator and finally the seller gave me $2000 discount. It is true that the seller must know I want to drive it away.

I believe My wife is in a better position and she suggested me don't contact them until February. But I failed to follow her instruction so called them after vacation.

On the other hand, People living in Canada do pay more than our neighbours. After tax I will pay CAD$25000 which is more than half of my annual salary.

I did sign a bill and I am afraid I can't roll it back until I found any major issue preventing me from buying it.

I'm happy to see you have 2 S600s which prove they are nice to own.
My best hope is I'm getting a fairly good car without major issue and it'll serve our family well in the future.

By the way, I do most of the works on the car by myself.

Best regards.

Howard

haoz129

, Thanks SFBIGBODY415.

Yes, it is true a 9 years old car with 80k, problems just begin.

I agree with you that the ongoing maintenace & repair will be EXPENSIVE and which should be much more than running my Volvo XC70.

The reason I chose MB S600 is I am a car enthusiasm in both mechanic & electronic ways. And I know MB does outstanding jobs in this industry. I thought sooner or later I will be getting one of these.

Till now, only thing support me to own this car is that I can maintain and repair cars by myself. As all of you can see I'm not rich. But I don't afraid of getting dirty.

Yes, yes, even parts are expensive.

Best regards.

Howard

Quadcammer

mother of god man what the hell were you thinking?

2 accidents, rust all over the place, and a list of codes that long?

You are going to absolutely get brutalized by this vehicle.

As the saying goes, nothing is more expensive than a cheap [v12] mercedes.

haoz129

, sigh, I want run but my feet don't follow.
Thanks for your true and plain advice.

I did feel disappointed when I find out all those rust and bubbles when I visited in person.
I couldn't believe there is rust in such an elegant vehicle. Even very old Volvos refuse to rust running like boxes on rollers.
I'll try dealer and wish they could take care of the rust.

I do think I may made a pretty bad financial decision.

Best regards.

Howard

Fraser

Hate to say it but I think you have. These aren't the kind of cars you should be spending half your salary on even if in perfect condition.

The MB rust warranty is good for 35yrs or something silly but I suspect you'll find some way MB will wangle their way out, particularly if there is no full service history.

haoz129

, Thanks Oliverk.
I did read lots of your threads and enjoy them.

Don't want this S600 run over me.
Yes, the old saying is shaking my decision.

In addition, I do want to know, in the error code list, which is a real problem need to be handled or which is a deal-breaker ?

Best regards.

Howard

S500 Man

Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

njcpa

Since you haven't picked up the car, I suggest you have it brought to an authorized dealer for a pre-purchase inspection. Let them create the "to do" list for you along with an estimate. Then you can make an educated decision. If you don't want to buy it because of a lot of problems, the seller should give you back your deposit. And if you do buy it, you will know what it needs right now.

Good luck!

AsianML

There's no way I'd even buy a Lexus with all these preexisting problems.

haoz129

Copy, S500 Man.

I'll collect more info.
If indeed I lost confidence I'll run fast.

Thanks.

Howard

haoz129

, Sure, njcpa.
I agree and I'm planning to have it inspected by a MB mechanic.

It is very important to get a third party input. That's the same reason I'd like all of your guys advices at this time.
I will get a 'To Do List' and ask the seller to cover them.

Thanks a lot!

Howard

haoz129

Not sure a Lexus will have that many issues, .

Thanks.

Howard

S600Keith

Howard, I think you now realize now what can of worms you are about to open. It's been pretty well beaten into your head...
These cars are very special. Even when you go into a dealership and present yourself with a S600 you get comments from service managers and other customers who admire the car. They are indeed cosmetically beautiful, ride like a dream, handle like a sportscar while quiet, fast, and smooth. The power curve is like nothing you have ever driven before. Practically nothing can outpower you on the street. You drive around knowing that you have one of the top 5 most expensive and luxurious cars in your town (whether you are in Ontario, California OR Ontario, Canada).

I can only hope you are able to afford all the repairs and/or are able to complete the maintenance yourself. HOWEVER, no matter what the condition of the car right now, I am sure that you will be the one to bring it back to its former glory and make this car your baby. I think that this car may be luckier to have found you than you were to find it.

Welcome again to the forum. I am sure we will be hearing more from you around here as you undertake the task of bringing this car back from the brink of death.

Keith

haoz129

, well said, well said, very well said in every single word, Keith.
I believe I will be remembering this thread for years.

I showed my current situation and was calling for ideas.
Everybody started to beat on this deal in a pretty straightfoward way.
This is the most amazing part that a great forum could do and all of the advices are exactly what I'm looking for.
Even my 10 year's old daughter is amazed that how people help each other so generously thourgh the screen even without knowing their names.

Yes, I'm more cautious about this deal now.
And yes, I still haven't loosed confidence or interest about this car.
I believe with all the suggestions and my homeworks done the result will be getting better.

, Thank you and all who spending priceless time reading and replying.

Howard

tusabes

Have you bought it already or not? If not RUN AWAY. This car has too many problems.

Sounds like you have coil problems and door module problems, both very common and probably $3-5,000 to fix. The rust is even more expensive, and there is no certainty the dealer will pay for it, especially if its been in two accidents and repainted. They will blame the rust on the repaint and poor body preparation.

Pushing the gas is necessary to backup , there is no "idle creep" in a mercedes like on other cars. So thats normal, but there are too many problems with this car

haoz129

, Thanks Tusabes.
Nice to see another Mercedes expert replied with insight information.

I paid a deposit but didn't bought it yet. If there are too many problems I can ask for refund and roll the deal back.

For the misfile codes, it didn't come back after I delete fault memory. Is it normal a few misfire accumulated after years ? I'll also ask for a longer trip to see whether it is a permanent issue.

And for the previous accident, as it's a local car, it was repaired by a MB Collision center. And actually I'm going to take it to the same place request for re-paint. But it is true no guarantee they will cover the cost.

All in all I will have the car inspected and review all issues with the seller. If he is willing to fix them before delivery then we could still move forward. If no, then a deposit refund will be more practical.

By the way, there is another strange thing happened when I test the car.
I had few times can't start the engine when I am not in the driver seat. The engine cranked normally, just didn't start. But as soon as I seated back the car did it effortlessly. Not sure this is a symptom of another issue or these cars are really smart to know where the driver is.

Please advise.

Best regards.

Howard

Sgt. Schultz

my useless $0.00002

consider your deposit a lesson paid for if you cannot get all or at least some back (you can, I would)

what you'll lose in deposit $ pales in comparison to sticking w/ that car simply to keep your deposit... and what you are GUARANTEED to be losing in the situation you've outlined

it's that bad, seriously

move on, get $ back if you can, but move on

have Bruce here find you a clean one - start w/ a better start basically, and don't overpay

good luck, do report back. The car (quest) IS emphatically worth it, superlatively, astonishingly worth it. Squared. Repeating.

I esp enjoyed the comment about service folks or other random passersbys otherwise nodding in deference / respect for what these cars quite simply are.

they command respect for a reason, they're that good

When they don't suck 8-)...

oh and welcome - I'm a newb here as well...

Sgt. Schultz

btw yes 2nd'ing the sensation in reverse

Many good MB's are like this historically, all my W124's, any W126 / W140 I've been in - all do 'this' in reverse. Drive too, if in Convenience in our cars.

Partially caused by gearing, partially caused by 'start in 2nd' feature

reverse is particularly notable - my clueless bride even commented on it from the pass seat "is there something wrong?".

It feels like the trans is slipping or your ebrake is on or something, takes some getting used to unless you've had a litany of MB's prior which do it 8-)...

historical codes... yes, they could currently reside there if they popped up due to a failure and the failure was remedied but the codes were not reset. Doubtful. They are probably current. ECU needs 8-15mi to re-adapt and reset for them to reshow. I've seen some cars need up to 50mi.

dealer who did shoddy paint repair should stand by their work?

but......... that's irrelevant pishposh here... ***just find another one***

haoz129

, Thanks, Sgt. Schultz.
Very nice thought.

By the way, I guess Bruce is from the Becks Imports, LLC.
And I did give him a call and they can import cars to Canada.
But I need make a decision whether go through this route as cross border is something I'm not familiar with.

But anyway the info is very helpful.


Thanks for another useful insight explaination.
I never thought about it before but now I understand and will keep it in mind.

You are not new to the MB family.
I am really new to Mercedes's cars. But I'm sure I will get along pretty well with them. I already have a good start here with all member's support.

Best regards.

Howard

Sgt. Schultz

Yes, Bruce of Beck's Imports...

FWIW Bruce just sold my 930 for me... it went on a truck to Toronto and it was very seemless on our end here.

haoz129

Hi,

Here is some update information for this deal.

One of my friend refered me to a Mercedes mechanic.
I initially want to schedule an inspection. But to my surprise he tried to talk me away from not only this car but all the S600. He said this machine need lots of cash to burn.
And he said the price is a rip off base on the condition of this car, .

I agree and as other members suggested a warranty is a must have in case any issue poped up.
Anyway I scheduled a Star Certify full inspection like he suggested next Monday. We'll see what the outcome is and how the seller can help.

Thanks.

Howard