Soon to be W220 owner!
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2003 S500
Soon to be W220 owner!
Eyeballing a few 2003+ S500s. An online acquaintance from a cars group told me the W220 S500 suspension service or something requires the engine or tranny to be dropped and he basically cursed buying one.
How does the forum feel about the 500 versus the 430? I know the mechanical and physical differences headlines, airmatic being cheaper to fix now, etc. Just making sure I'm not buying an exceptionally bad model or something.
Thanks for your input
How does the forum feel about the 500 versus the 430? I know the mechanical and physical differences headlines, airmatic being cheaper to fix now, etc. Just making sure I'm not buying an exceptionally bad model or something.
Thanks for your input
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Mercedes
Both s430 and s500 have airmatic standard , some s500 had abc as an option . Avoid abc cars as the suspension is costly and more problematic then airmatic
The engine does not need to be removed for suspension service on either car . The repair costs and problems of both s430 and s500 are virtually identical
The engine does not need to be removed for suspension service on either car . The repair costs and problems of both s430 and s500 are virtually identical
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2005 S500 Designo
Both s430 and s500 have airmatic standard , some s500 had abc as an option . Avoid abc cars as the suspension is costly and more problematic then airmatic
The engine does not need to be removed for suspension service on either car . The repair costs and problems of both s430 and s500 are virtually identical
The engine does not need to be removed for suspension service on either car . The repair costs and problems of both s430 and s500 are virtually identical
Unfortunately I can’t comment on airmatic as I’ve never driven one, however the ABC suspension handles unlike any car I’ve ever driven. Body roll is eliminated, as well as front dip on braking and rear dip on acceleration. It’s an astounding piece of kit that delivers a sublilme ride and performance usually reserved for the best racing vehicles.
The key thing is to swap your fluid regularly (30-50k miles; some say 20k miles).
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I have both airmatic w220 and abc w215 cars. The airmatic is far more comfortable , as a sedan should be.
Yes you can easily swap fluid every 20k miles , but it won't eliminate problems . It might help extend pump life and keep valve blocks clean but it won't help with strut, accumulator , or abc hoses, which will fail around every 20k miles on cars this old (and is a good time to change fluid ) . As others have said , the abc system needs regular hydraulic Maintenance , which includes regular fluid hose and parts changes, every few years - unlike airmatic which needs no maintenance .
At the age of these cars, both airmatic and abc are likely to need service . Airmatic repairs tend to be far less costly than abc repairs . When an airmatic strut or pump fails you replace a $400 part and that's it . But When something simple as a abc hose fails, if the pump runs dry , it is ruined and then sends metal fragments throughout the system damaging the valve blocks and struts - a $4000+ repair job
Yes you can easily swap fluid every 20k miles , but it won't eliminate problems . It might help extend pump life and keep valve blocks clean but it won't help with strut, accumulator , or abc hoses, which will fail around every 20k miles on cars this old (and is a good time to change fluid ) . As others have said , the abc system needs regular hydraulic Maintenance , which includes regular fluid hose and parts changes, every few years - unlike airmatic which needs no maintenance .
At the age of these cars, both airmatic and abc are likely to need service . Airmatic repairs tend to be far less costly than abc repairs . When an airmatic strut or pump fails you replace a $400 part and that's it . But When something simple as a abc hose fails, if the pump runs dry , it is ruined and then sends metal fragments throughout the system damaging the valve blocks and struts - a $4000+ repair job
Last edited by tusabes; Jan 10, 2016 at 07:43 AM.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
I'm with Fried Chicken. I would never have a W220 without ABC, but there are very few S500 cars with ABC, so that doesn't matter much.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Jan 10, 2016 at 11:11 AM.
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From: Aurora, CO
06' W220 4MATIC (sold) 08'ml63 AMG
He brings up a few good points. I would watch the 4 parts.
What I do like about these cars is that you can still find some great cars that have not been thrashed. The S500s should have a few more stock options over the S430 and a little bigger V8. I will also say that these cars a not fast, but quick. If you think you need power, then start with the AMG vs trying to make your car an AMG. My friend has a w219 6.3 Kleemann. That is a fast car.
What I do like about these cars is that you can still find some great cars that have not been thrashed. The S500s should have a few more stock options over the S430 and a little bigger V8. I will also say that these cars a not fast, but quick. If you think you need power, then start with the AMG vs trying to make your car an AMG. My friend has a w219 6.3 Kleemann. That is a fast car.
Last edited by eldos1; Jan 10, 2016 at 10:30 AM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
https://mercedessource.com/
Kent's a good guy. Takes a long time to make a point, but he knows what he's talking about.
Nick
Kent's a good guy. Takes a long time to make a point, but he knows what he's talking about.
Nick
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2005 S500 Designo
I have both airmatic w220 and abc w215 cars. The airmatic is far more comfortable , as a sedan should be.
Yes you can easily swap fluid every 20k miles , but it won't eliminate problems . It might help extend pump life and keep valve blocks clean but it won't help with strut, accumulator , or abc hoses, which will fail around every 20k miles on cars this old (and is a good time to change fluid ) . As others have said , the abc system needs regular hydraulic Maintenance , which includes regular fluid hose and parts changes, every few years - unlike airmatic which needs no maintenance .
At the age of these cars, both airmatic and abc are likely to need service . Airmatic repairs tend to be far less costly than abc repairs . When an airmatic strut or pump fails you replace a $400 part and that's it . But When something simple as a abc hose fails, if the pump runs dry , it is ruined and then sends metal fragments throughout the system damaging the valve blocks and struts - a $4000+ repair job
Yes you can easily swap fluid every 20k miles , but it won't eliminate problems . It might help extend pump life and keep valve blocks clean but it won't help with strut, accumulator , or abc hoses, which will fail around every 20k miles on cars this old (and is a good time to change fluid ) . As others have said , the abc system needs regular hydraulic Maintenance , which includes regular fluid hose and parts changes, every few years - unlike airmatic which needs no maintenance .
At the age of these cars, both airmatic and abc are likely to need service . Airmatic repairs tend to be far less costly than abc repairs . When an airmatic strut or pump fails you replace a $400 part and that's it . But When something simple as a abc hose fails, if the pump runs dry , it is ruined and then sends metal fragments throughout the system damaging the valve blocks and struts - a $4000+ repair job
The accumulators will fail, however it's not catastrophic, and replacement is trivial.
I think mechanics tend to freak out over hydraulics because it's outside of their comfort zone when it really need not be. Hydraulics have been used for over a hundred years under way more demanding conditions than an automotive suspension system.
The end result is you get a car with a sublime ride and simultaneously incredibly good handling.
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I meant at this age , all the hoses are so old you can expect to replace a different hose every 20k or so miles , as they are all old and failing - not that the same hose lasts only 20k miles
Just like accumulators, if you don't change them all, you can expect to replace those every so often as they all are old and will fail. That's why people who can't diy should avoid abc cars, as they are a never ending problem as each old component requires replacing . Sure if you're mechanically inclined it's no problem -but if you can't do the work yourself it's a big problem
Just like accumulators, if you don't change them all, you can expect to replace those every so often as they all are old and will fail. That's why people who can't diy should avoid abc cars, as they are a never ending problem as each old component requires replacing . Sure if you're mechanically inclined it's no problem -but if you can't do the work yourself it's a big problem
Last edited by tusabes; Jan 13, 2016 at 05:26 AM.
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2005 S500 Designo
I meant at this age , all the hoses are so old you can expect to replace a different hose every 20k or so miles , as they are all old and failing - not that the same hose lasts only 20k miles
Just like accumulators, if you don't change them all, you can expect to replace those every so often as they all are old and will fail. That's why people who can't diy should avoid abc cars, as they are a never ending problem as each old component requires replacing . Sure if you're mechanically inclined it's no problem -but if you can't do the work yourself it's a big problem
Just like accumulators, if you don't change them all, you can expect to replace those every so often as they all are old and will fail. That's why people who can't diy should avoid abc cars, as they are a never ending problem as each old component requires replacing . Sure if you're mechanically inclined it's no problem -but if you can't do the work yourself it's a big problem
I honestly think this could yield another 100k miles of worry free ownership.
The whole thing should cost less than $2k (with most of the cost being in the accumulators).
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
That's what I did. Probably spent about £200 on pipes, plus one accumulator.
Tusabes is right about being able to do things yourself.
Ebay is full of S600's with ABC and ignition problems.
Nick
Tusabes is right about being able to do things yourself.
Ebay is full of S600's with ABC and ignition problems.
Nick
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2003 S500
Thanks for all the advice guys. Looks like I should be okay, definitely going airmatic because ABC sounds like a PIA. Hopefully this lady buys BMW tomorrow so I can dive into S500 or potentially 430 ownership! Found a 2003 Black S500 with 123k miles and clean title for $5800.
