Car skips to the side over big bumps
06-26-2017, 03:18 PM
#26
Super Member
Thread Starter
Hey Nick,
It seems we both replied at the same minute lol! So I just popped my hood and they definitely look like there is a big gap in them. I am sorry to be asking so many questions but I just don't understand. I am assuming the washers go between the piece that you use the scanner on and the strut tower.. you can see the marks where the piece bottoms out on it. I guess my question is, once you put a scanner on that piece after removing the connector then what do you take off? Does that piece twist off with the scanner and then it's just a shaft that you drop the washers down onto? Is this going to ride as good or am I better off buying two new struts? I don't want to spend thousands of dollars if I don't have to but I want it right and I want to be able to drive it without dying when I surge into the other lane lol!
It seems we both replied at the same minute lol! So I just popped my hood and they definitely look like there is a big gap in them. I am sorry to be asking so many questions but I just don't understand. I am assuming the washers go between the piece that you use the scanner on and the strut tower.. you can see the marks where the piece bottoms out on it. I guess my question is, once you put a scanner on that piece after removing the connector then what do you take off? Does that piece twist off with the scanner and then it's just a shaft that you drop the washers down onto? Is this going to ride as good or am I better off buying two new struts? I don't want to spend thousands of dollars if I don't have to but I want it right and I want to be able to drive it without dying when I surge into the other lane lol!
06-26-2017, 03:32 PM
#27
06-26-2017, 04:16 PM
#28
Super Member
Thread Starter
I see a pretty big gap there between your strut tower and the bushing
why don't you just buy some m20 rubber washers , slice a cut in them and coat them in epoxy in one side , then slip them between the strut tower and existing bushing , to close up that open
gap ? Should take all of ten seconds
why don't you just buy some m20 rubber washers , slice a cut in them and coat them in epoxy in one side , then slip them between the strut tower and existing bushing , to close up that open
gap ? Should take all of ten seconds
06-26-2017, 08:59 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Chris,
The looseness in the bushings does not affect the down-force on the tire. Adding the rubber washers will not change the down-force on the tire. The full weight of the car is sitting on the struts.
The ABC cars do not have antisway bars. They depend upon the hydraulic struts to control the body movement of the car at all times.
If the top bushings are worn, so that there is space between the bushings on the top of the strut and the tops of the strut towers, there will be looseness when the body moves up. If the car hits a ridge in the highway that runs along (not across) the road, the front tires may try to follow the ridge. (Suspension engineers call this "trolley-tracking", since it was first very noticeable when the early cars ran parallel to the trolley tracks commonly found in the streets then.)
If the suspension bushings are all firm and tight, the ABC suspension has no problem controlling the small movement, and it is not noticeable. With the clearance between the bushings and the body that your car shows, when the front tire hits the ridge and tries to follow it, the looseness lets the body move in lateral roll, and that small movement is magnified to a noticeable amount.
If you could simply hold the steering wheel rock-steady, the movement would almost instantly damp out, and the car would hardly move off-line. Unfortunately, virtually no one can just hold the wheel steady and ignore the small movement. Everyone automatically tries to correct for the movement, and when the car almost instantly settles, the driver's correction is usually much larger than the car's initial movement. The driver than tries to correct his correction, and over-corrects in the opposite direction. The result is what aeronautical engineers call "PIO" - Pilot Induced Oscillation.
If you do as several folks have suggested, and add firm rubber washers to fill the gaps and eliminate the looseness, the car should drive much better.
(A "scanner" is an electronic device to check for trouble codes in the car's diagnostic system. A "spanner" in the USA is a flat wrench that uses (usually) two protruding steel pegs that fit into holes in a threaded plate to loosen/tighten the plate like a nut. In the UK and associated countries, a "spanner" is what we call an open-end wrench.)
The looseness in the bushings does not affect the down-force on the tire. Adding the rubber washers will not change the down-force on the tire. The full weight of the car is sitting on the struts.
The ABC cars do not have antisway bars. They depend upon the hydraulic struts to control the body movement of the car at all times.
If the top bushings are worn, so that there is space between the bushings on the top of the strut and the tops of the strut towers, there will be looseness when the body moves up. If the car hits a ridge in the highway that runs along (not across) the road, the front tires may try to follow the ridge. (Suspension engineers call this "trolley-tracking", since it was first very noticeable when the early cars ran parallel to the trolley tracks commonly found in the streets then.)
If the suspension bushings are all firm and tight, the ABC suspension has no problem controlling the small movement, and it is not noticeable. With the clearance between the bushings and the body that your car shows, when the front tire hits the ridge and tries to follow it, the looseness lets the body move in lateral roll, and that small movement is magnified to a noticeable amount.
If you could simply hold the steering wheel rock-steady, the movement would almost instantly damp out, and the car would hardly move off-line. Unfortunately, virtually no one can just hold the wheel steady and ignore the small movement. Everyone automatically tries to correct for the movement, and when the car almost instantly settles, the driver's correction is usually much larger than the car's initial movement. The driver than tries to correct his correction, and over-corrects in the opposite direction. The result is what aeronautical engineers call "PIO" - Pilot Induced Oscillation.
If you do as several folks have suggested, and add firm rubber washers to fill the gaps and eliminate the looseness, the car should drive much better.
(A "scanner" is an electronic device to check for trouble codes in the car's diagnostic system. A "spanner" in the USA is a flat wrench that uses (usually) two protruding steel pegs that fit into holes in a threaded plate to loosen/tighten the plate like a nut. In the UK and associated countries, a "spanner" is what we call an open-end wrench.)
06-27-2017, 01:28 PM
#31
Super Member
Thread Starter
Chris,
The looseness in the bushings does not affect the down-force on the tire. Adding the rubber washers will not change the down-force on the tire. The full weight of the car is sitting on the struts.
The ABC cars do not have antisway bars. They depend upon the hydraulic struts to control the body movement of the car at all times.
If the top bushings are worn, so that there is space between the bushings on the top of the strut and the tops of the strut towers, there will be looseness when the body moves up. If the car hits a ridge in the highway that runs along (not across) the road, the front tires may try to follow the ridge. (Suspension engineers call this "trolley-tracking", since it was first very noticeable when the early cars ran parallel to the trolley tracks commonly found in the streets then.)
If the suspension bushings are all firm and tight, the ABC suspension has no problem controlling the small movement, and it is not noticeable. With the clearance between the bushings and the body that your car shows, when the front tire hits the ridge and tries to follow it, the looseness lets the body move in lateral roll, and that small movement is magnified to a noticeable amount.
If you could simply hold the steering wheel rock-steady, the movement would almost instantly damp out, and the car would hardly move off-line. Unfortunately, virtually no one can just hold the wheel steady and ignore the small movement. Everyone automatically tries to correct for the movement, and when the car almost instantly settles, the driver's correction is usually much larger than the car's initial movement. The driver than tries to correct his correction, and over-corrects in the opposite direction. The result is what aeronautical engineers call "PIO" - Pilot Induced Oscillation.
If you do as several folks have suggested, and add firm rubber washers to fill the gaps and eliminate the looseness, the car should drive much better.
(A "scanner" is an electronic device to check for trouble codes in the car's diagnostic system. A "spanner" in the USA is a flat wrench that uses (usually) two protruding steel pegs that fit into holes in a threaded plate to loosen/tighten the plate like a nut. In the UK and associated countries, a "spanner" is what we call an open-end wrench.)
The looseness in the bushings does not affect the down-force on the tire. Adding the rubber washers will not change the down-force on the tire. The full weight of the car is sitting on the struts.
The ABC cars do not have antisway bars. They depend upon the hydraulic struts to control the body movement of the car at all times.
If the top bushings are worn, so that there is space between the bushings on the top of the strut and the tops of the strut towers, there will be looseness when the body moves up. If the car hits a ridge in the highway that runs along (not across) the road, the front tires may try to follow the ridge. (Suspension engineers call this "trolley-tracking", since it was first very noticeable when the early cars ran parallel to the trolley tracks commonly found in the streets then.)
If the suspension bushings are all firm and tight, the ABC suspension has no problem controlling the small movement, and it is not noticeable. With the clearance between the bushings and the body that your car shows, when the front tire hits the ridge and tries to follow it, the looseness lets the body move in lateral roll, and that small movement is magnified to a noticeable amount.
If you could simply hold the steering wheel rock-steady, the movement would almost instantly damp out, and the car would hardly move off-line. Unfortunately, virtually no one can just hold the wheel steady and ignore the small movement. Everyone automatically tries to correct for the movement, and when the car almost instantly settles, the driver's correction is usually much larger than the car's initial movement. The driver than tries to correct his correction, and over-corrects in the opposite direction. The result is what aeronautical engineers call "PIO" - Pilot Induced Oscillation.
If you do as several folks have suggested, and add firm rubber washers to fill the gaps and eliminate the looseness, the car should drive much better.
(A "scanner" is an electronic device to check for trouble codes in the car's diagnostic system. A "spanner" in the USA is a flat wrench that uses (usually) two protruding steel pegs that fit into holes in a threaded plate to loosen/tighten the plate like a nut. In the UK and associated countries, a "spanner" is what we call an open-end wrench.)
06-27-2017, 01:28 PM
#32
Super Member
Thread Starter
06-27-2017, 08:30 PM
#33
Super Member
Thread Starter
Hey guys I just spent the money and bought two brand new struts. The dealer gave me 30% off so I paid $1300 each. I just want it done right.
06-27-2017, 09:40 PM
#35
Super Member
Thread Starter
06-28-2017, 09:26 AM
#37
Super Member
Thread Starter
No.. they sell the refurbished and want to push those but they can get the brand new ones.. they had to order them from Germany for me. I saw all the screens etc. If your dealer said that then they just didn't want to get them from Germany.. my friend was saying why not just buy the refurb for a few hundred less.. but after Arnotts said they can't even replace the upper mounts and that they just use the best cores they have and that theirs already have a little gap already I started to wonder if the company that rebuilds them for MB does the same thing.. they may not, but I didn't want to take the chance plus with the new ones I can keep my struts so if I sold them to Arnotts as cores or to someone else who wants to put the bushings in them I'll be at the same price as refurbs but I'll have brand new.. seeing as I'm replacing perfectly good struts just because of the upper mounts buying new seemed very important.. all my buddies who one works for MB and owns these cars too and one owns the biggest MB specialist shop in town and the others work there all thought adding washers was a joke.. they referred to it as more Mickey Mouse repairs from the internet lol and usually they are more on the liberal side of playing it safe than sorry so I decided to go this route.. every one of them said the same thing.. it's my life riding on those struts and putting spacers in there could just make the already weak upper mount give more. No idea if that's a possibility, the washers may have been great..
Last edited by cmpcpro; 06-28-2017 at 09:37 AM.
06-28-2017, 10:12 AM
#38
No.. they sell the refurbished and want to push those but they can get the brand new ones.. they had to order them from Germany for me. I saw all the screens etc. If your dealer said that then they just didn't want to get them from Germany.. my friend was saying why not just buy the refurb for a few hundred less.. but after Arnotts said they can't even replace the upper mounts and that they just use the best cores they have and that theirs already have a little gap already I started to wonder if the company that rebuilds them for MB does the same thing.. they may not, but I didn't want to take the chance plus with the new ones I can keep my struts so if I sold them to Arnotts as cores or to someone else who wants to put the bushings in them I'll be at the same price as refurbs but I'll have brand new.. seeing as I'm replacing perfectly good struts just because of the upper mounts buying new seemed very important.. all my buddies who one works for MB and owns these cars too and one owns the biggest MB specialist shop in town and the others work there all thought adding washers was a joke.. they referred to it as more Mickey Mouse repairs from the internet lol and usually they are more on the liberal side of playing it safe than sorry so I decided to go this route.. every one of them said the same thing.. it's my life riding on those struts and putting spacers in there could just make the already weak upper mount give more. No idea if that's a possibility, the washers may have been great..
06-29-2017, 02:47 PM
#41
Senior Member
06-30-2017, 06:29 AM
#42
Super Member
Thread Starter
Yes that means they're shot like mine.. really stupid design.. the upper strut mount is what fails.. If you have 57k on them then that tells me it's the age and weight on them that wipes them out maybe.. who knows maybe they redesigned them.. I'll know when they come in from Germany but I doubt it..
07-02-2017, 04:18 AM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
07-02-2017, 05:20 AM
#44
Super Member
Thread Starter
I haven't gotten them yet. They are coming from Germany. I should have them this week and will let you guys know how it goes.
07-02-2017, 11:13 PM
#45
Side to side in the rain as well
guys, thanks for this post... I have been having the same problem and it is scary!!! My car does it over bumps and in the rain it feels as though I will have an accident by jumping into another lane!!! Cmpcpro, please let us know asap the results! Thank you so much for your feedback!!!
07-14-2017, 10:52 PM
#46
Super Member
Thread Starter
Racer: glad to help!
Hey guys my brand new struts were installed today! What a difference! I haven't driven it enough on the freeway to say it's resolved but I will this weekend. However the front end is brand new maybe a few hundred miles on it and it still felt like it had play going up my driveway or hitting bumps and now it's nice and tight! The old ones have clear play in the upper mounts now that they are in the box. I will say though after looking at the old ones in the box I think using the washers would probably solve the problem. You would be losing a bit of travel but probably not enough to notice. I'll keep you guys posted after the freeway trip!
Hey guys my brand new struts were installed today! What a difference! I haven't driven it enough on the freeway to say it's resolved but I will this weekend. However the front end is brand new maybe a few hundred miles on it and it still felt like it had play going up my driveway or hitting bumps and now it's nice and tight! The old ones have clear play in the upper mounts now that they are in the box. I will say though after looking at the old ones in the box I think using the washers would probably solve the problem. You would be losing a bit of travel but probably not enough to notice. I'll keep you guys posted after the freeway trip!
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compaddict (07-14-2017)
07-25-2017, 01:04 PM
#48
Super Member
Thread Starter
Hey guys, so a quick update. The car feels a lot better and no more hitting a bump and having the steering wheel rip out of my hand however hitting certain lines in the road and I still get a bit of the problem but it seems to be coming from the back now.. it seems the backs will need to be replaced. The sad part is one of them was replaced just a few months ago with an Arnotts and obviously with them being used that is no help. The front end feels great though!! The only thing on the front that isn't new is the rack.. even though it still feels very tight.
