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2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
My first w220
Hello!
Wanted to intro myself to the group as I'm sure I'll be spending a lot of time on this board over the next few months :-D
My first Mercedes was a W124 400E which I unfortunately sold (spent a lot of time and effort fixing that car up too).
I bought a 2004 S600 this past weekend so I'm pretty excited to embark on my project to bring it back to factory spec. Car has 81k miles on it.
I found the car on craigslist and it was a little rough mechanically, but the body seemed okay. Obvious front end damage, but it seemed repairable with a new bumper cover. ABC system for sure was going bad with fluid leaking and the PSE system also bad with no power locks or trunk functioning. I wasn't scared of this as I saw it as a challenge and a fun project. Having worked on BMWs and Porsches as a hobby as well, I feel working on such a Mercedes requires real problem solving and repair work instead of just replacing parts.
I have ABC o-rings and fluid ordered. Just purchased a pressure/vacuum gauge/pump to test each PSE line to find which one caused the pump to go bad before I install a used pump from another S600 (to avoid coding).
Various plastic parts that are worn/broken will be replaced. Tires are dry rotted so a fresh set of Michelin Super sports will be ordered. I use to do auto detailing in college for fun (I made a lot of friends) so the paint will corrected.
It looks good. This car is a great collectors item. I wish you the best of luck in repairing the car. Once your done with the technical issues try to preserve the body by giving it a spray or a wax polish and and get it to look like the one below. Also give the engine bay a good detailed clean check out the attached link as well.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Quick update:
PSE pump was for sure bad. Put a working one in and various things started to work again. It looks like the pump was replaced at some point before because the lines were labeled for correct re-install. Tested the PSE lines while the pump was out and all 4 doors are not holding pressure. Trunk doesn't close with new pump and line didn't hold pressure either. Tested each door lock by pressing the lock button and listening. Both front doors leaked so bad that I could hear a hissing sound as the lock actuated. Rear left door didn't make any sound or act weird, but the line couldn't hold pressure for long. The rear right door moved noticeably slower than the others. Lock actuators for the trunk and doors will be ordered. Has anyone ever tried the repair kits? I'm tempted given cost savings, but worried I'll have to go back into the doors later. http://www.motor-king.com/mercedes-b...-d096rkrf.html
The wetness in the engine bay seems to be leaky valve cover gasket. Both banks are moist with oil. Looks like an involved job to get them replaced with so much stuff on top. Are there any good vacuum line diagrams? While all that stuff is out, might as well replace every vacuum and crank ventilation hose.
Battery also died. It was a 3 year old Bosch so I was a bit surprised. I put in a brand new Bosch AGM battery. Hopefully it was just a bad battery and not a parasitic drain somewhere.
Found some more broken plastic and trim so adding more things to the list of parts needed.
Welcome to the W220 forum. Two experts on all things S600 that post here regularly are welwynnick
(this thread about ABC) and hoaz129, ( haven't seen anything lately from Howard as he may have moved on/up?) You will find most of what you need to bring your "find" back to life. 81K miles, it's hardly "broke in", congrats!
Beautiful car and Congrats!! As far as the door actuators go,I would stay away from the kits. I tried them in the past and had to go back to the OEM ( which are not cheap by the way ) Probably best bet will be a salvage yard where you can get working oem's. Looks like you know what you are doing so I am sure you will be up and running at no time.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Update:
I ordered all new lock actuators for the doors and trunk. Trunk soft close how works. However, the trunk hydraulic assist doesn't seem to work at all now. After doing some reading, it seems the PSE module needs to be paired / coded to the hydraulic unit to work. I don't think the hydraulic unit is broken since before the PSE module swap, the trunk would move an inch down with each push of the trunk close button. Now it does nothing. Debating on whether to just buy a STAR C4 diagnostic tool from ebay or take it to the dealership to have coded. I bought the Mercedes add-on for my Autoenginuity OBD tool (already had BMW and Porsche), but this tool doesn't do coding for such specialized things.
Replaced the lock actuators on the rear doors and they were a real pain. Well, the first one was anyways. Trying to snake that thing through the door and around the door handle is something I would not want to do again. Worst part was the sticky cable looms and old foam that turns into sticky paste. The second one I was able to do in under 2 hours. I unfortunately forgot to order extra door panel clips so there are a few broken ones now. Hope the door panels don't rattle too much, but if they do, it'll just be a weekend job to replace them. Soft close and locks work so smoothly on the rear doors now!
Next weekend will be tackling the front door lock actuators and starting the ABC valve rebuild.
Believe it or not, front doors are a lot easier. Still some snake work to bring the actuator in place bot nowhere near as bad as the rears. I also been thinking of buying a DAS as well but counter-plating it since don't really want to drop $8-900 right at the moment
That looks like a nice car. I'd be quite pleased with myself if I had bought that, problems or no problems. There are lots of resources to help out, and not as much to worry about as you might think.
For ABC problems I'd recommend starting with some reading:
Keep the battery charged, keep all the drains clear, fit the right spark plugs, check the ABC oil level regularly, inspect all the ABC hoses every year, and of course stay on top of ALL the fluids & filters.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Update:
Front lock actuators are done. I didn't realize I needed to drill out the rivets until I couldn't get the actuator out. Delayed my reinstall by 2 days while I ordered new rivets and a rivet tool from amazon.
Removed the front ABC valve and rebuilt it today. Was fairly straight forward, but getting some of the valves off the block was a real pain. The square o-rings were badly worn and swollen. Re-assembled the valve and it'll be installed tomorrow. Some of the lines looked wet so I need to check out all the lines in more detail as I'm sure at least one line is leaking. There was hydraulic fluid all over the inside of the under body panels / splash guards. Useful information in welynnnick's posts.
This weekend will be working on the rear ABC valve and interior cleaning / detailing.
I've been trying to align the front bumper and can't seem to close the gap on the front edge of the fender. There was only a gap on the passenger side, but after removing the bumper and putting it back on, now I have a gap on both sides. Can't seem to figure out out to align / adjust the bumper. Any thoughts or tips?
My remaining to do list before I start driving the car includes:
- Flush brake system
- Transmission fluid / filter
- Differential fluid
- Fuel filter
- Cabin filters
- Valve cover gasket
- Vacuum lines (at least one vacuum line appeared to be repaired, might as well replace all of them during valve cover job)
- Divertor valve (might be cause of oil leak on front driver side of engine)
- Spark plugs
- Air filters
- Oil change
- Belt
- New tires
Further down the line, I think I'll need to do the following:
- Transmission conductor plate and plug
- Various bushings and suspension links
- Ignition coil test (a few even number cylinders had misfire codes when I bought the car)
- New OE front bumper to replace non-OE repair job
- Dealership re-code of PSE to re-enable trunk assist hydraulics
- Upgrade intercooler pump
- Hood shocks
- Exterior detailing and polishing
Some of the lines looked wet so I need to check out all the lines in more detail as I'm sure at least one line is leaking. There was hydraulic fluid all over the inside of the under body panels / splash guards. Useful information in welynnnick's posts.
Sounds like you're going to dodge a particularly nasty bullet there. It's bad news when an ABC hose fails, and you saw the warning sign. Too many people haven't, and the dealers are little help. Obviously I recommend repairing the pipe by cutting out the hose and fitting a repair section with compression joints.
Don't forget to clear the heater inlet plenum upper and lower drains. If they block, rain water overflows into the cabin and kills the electrics. Many cars have been written off that way.
Make sure you don't have M137 spark plugs with 1.00 mm gaps. Many people sell them for M275 engines, and many coil packs have been cooked.
Whatever you do, don't "upgrade" the IC pump to a Johnson CM30 - it's a downgrade.
When you get sorted out, please try fitting rears wheels and tires to the front - you'll never look back.
Altogether it sounds like the right car has met the right owner!
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 02-02-2018 at 09:40 AM.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Originally Posted by Welwynnick
Sounds like you're going to dodge a particularly nasty bullet there. It's bad news when an ABC hose fails, and you saw the warning sign. Too many people haven't, and the dealers are little help. Obviously I recommend repairing the pipe by cutting out the hose and fitting a repair section with compression joints.
Don't forget to clear the heater inlet plenum upper and lower drains. If they block, rain water overflows into the cabin and kills the electrics. Many cars have been written off that way.
Make sure you don't have M137 spark plugs with 1.00 mm gaps. Many people sell them for M275 engines, and many coil packs have been cooked.
Whatever you do, don't "upgrade" the IC pump to a Johnson CM30 - it's a downgrade.
When you get sorted out, please try fitting rears wheels and tires to the front - you'll never look back.
Altogether it sounds like the right car has met the right owner!
Nick
Drain is already cleared. That was one of the first things I did :-)
Plan was to use Iridium plugs and the new Bosch IC pump.
So the ABC lines actually seem okay. The line that was wet was actually the AC line where oil and ABC fluid dripped on it. I must have spilled more fluid than I though during the flush.
Looking at the areas that were wet, it's also possible it's the power steering fluid circuit that is leaky and not the ABC circuit.
I've cleaned everything up and will monitor the lines.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Another update.
Made a mistake that will cost me, but at least it'll prompt me to replace what needs to be replaced.
The ABC lines seemed okay after my initial drive. I guess with the valves working properly, the pressure shock caused the center ABC line to leak really badly after a long drive today. Reservoir ran dry so I'm sure the tandem pump is toast now. Hoping the fresh filter in the reservoir caught all the metal bits from a destroyed pump.
I guess the nitrogen cells were bad and didn't protect the lines from the shock of the new higher pressures from working valves.
Need to do a quick oil change on my Porsche to prepare for a track weekend, but then it's off to start dismantling the ABC lines and various systems. Debating on OE rebuilt, non-OE rebuilt, or new pump. Price difference is eye watering.
Will also need to track down the coolant leak since there was some faint steam and smell coming from the driver side radiator neck. Good opportunity to replace all the coolant lines I guess.
Also found vibration on low RPM acceleration. Potential engine mounts or bad exhaust hangers.
This is starting to get expensive, but looking forward to the results.
Made a mistake that will cost me, but at least it'll prompt me to replace what needs to be replaced.
The ABC lines seemed okay after my initial drive. I guess with the valves working properly, the pressure shock caused the center ABC line to leak really badly after a long drive today. Reservoir ran dry so I'm sure the tandem pump is toast now. Hoping the fresh filter in the reservoir caught all the metal bits from a destroyed pump.
I guess the nitrogen cells were bad and didn't protect the lines from the shock of the new higher pressures from working valves.
Need to do a quick oil change on my Porsche to prepare for a track weekend, but then it's off to start dismantling the ABC lines and various systems. Debating on OE rebuilt, non-OE rebuilt, or new pump. Price difference is eye watering.
Will also need to track down the coolant leak since there was some faint steam and smell coming from the driver side radiator neck. Good opportunity to replace all the coolant lines I guess.
Also found vibration on low RPM acceleration. Potential engine mounts or bad exhaust hangers.
This is starting to get expensive, but looking forward to the results.
I wouldn't presume your abc system is toast . It needs to be run dry quite a long time before it breaks , it's not instant . I've had three hose failures and each time all I Needed was a new hose and to refill the fluid . I Probably drove less than 5 miles after the fluid leaked each time - how far did you run it while dry ?
if your car was still leaking at the end of your drive it wasn't run dry at all . Dry is when fluid stops leaking because it's all gone , and no fluid is being pumped
i would just change the hose and filter and see what happens . If there's metal in your system it's already too late , but chances are its fine and just needs a hose if you Didnt run it long when completely dry, and again - if it was leaking at the end of your drive , it was not run dry , as the pump was still pumping fluid and being lubricated by the fluid it was pumping and leaking , and you're fine
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Originally Posted by tusabes
I wouldn't presume your abc system is toast . It needs to be run dry quite a long time before it breaks , it's not instant . I've had three hose failures and each time all I Needed was a new hose and to refill the fluid . I Probably drove less than 5 miles after the fluid leaked each time - how far did you run it ?
i would just change the hose and see what happens . If there's metal in your system it's already too late , but chances are its fine and just needs a hose if you Didn run it long when dry
I think it's toast because I refilled the liquid and cleared my ABC message, but the red ABC message comes back on after 10 seconds of the car starting.
Does the red light go on if there isn't enough pressure?
One thing I did notice before the red ABC warming came on the first time was I could have swore I felt or heard a thunk in the front left of the car. From there, the front suspension seemed a bit high while the rears were low. Not sure if that means anything.
I think it's toast because I refilled the liquid and cleared my ABC message, but the red ABC message comes back on after 10 seconds of the car starting.
Does the red light go on if there isn't enough pressure?
One thing I did notice before the red ABC warming came on the first time was I could have swore I felt or heard a thunk in the front left of the car. From there, the front suspension seemed a bit high while the rears were low. Not sure if that means anything.
yes the red abc wArning will still be on if you have a hose /pressure leak , even if you refill it . I refilled my car each time I had a hose failure to drive it to my mechanic and the abc light stays on until you get your hose fixed and the system senses proper pressure
If your car was leaking at the end of your drive , it was not run dry at all, as the pump was still pumping fluid and being lubricated by the fluid it was pumping and you're fine.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Originally Posted by tusabes
yes the red abc wArning will still be on if you have a hose /pressure leak , even if you refill it . I refilled my car each time I had a hose failure to drive it to my mechanic and the abc light stays on until you get your hose fixed and the system senses proper pressure
If your car was leaking at the end of your drive , it was not run dry at all, as the pump was still pumping fluid and being lubricated by the fluid it was pumping and you're fine.
If the pump was dry or mostly dry and air got into the system, it can be difficult to persuade the pump to pick up fluid and work again. There are numerous threads on here about the system. SEARCH at the top of the page, then ADVANCED SEARCH. Enter suitable search terms, then scroll down to S-Class, W220.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Update:
It's been a few weeks since I've been traveling, closing on a house, and leasing a warehouse for my car projects.
I've successfully replaced most of the vacuum lines in the engine bay. There was only one line I couldn't track down that came off one of the Y connector behind the right cylinder head and seemed to snake towards the left of the engine bay and disappear. Other than that line, every line, insulation, connector, clamp, and split has been replaced. So glad I won't have to touch these lines for years to come. I ordered wayyyy to much for this part of the project and have several meters of extra vacuum lines and insulation. If anyone is in Los Angeles wants some vacuum lines, message me.
Valve cover gaskets replaced. They were brittle and cracked into pieces as I removed it from the cover. There appeared to be a lot of oil leaking into the spark plug holes and 2/3 of the plugs were drenched in oil.
Spark plugs are all replaced and ignition coils cleaned up and reinstalled. Hoping to not have to touch these for a bit. There are misfire codes when I bought the car, but they haven't come back with the limited driving. I'm hoping any misfires were a result of the plugs / ignition coil soaking in oil.
Radiator hoses have been replaced. The radiator appeared fine so I'm going to leave that alone for now. Seeing how easy the fan came off, it shouldn't be too hard of a job if the radiator is cracked or leaking.
In progress with replacing front intercooler lines. I noticed that the intercooler system was very low on water. Before starting all this work, I did notice some steam / coolant smell from the engine by the ABC pump. I guess it was from the intercooler system then. Was able to replace the right side line, but the left side line I'll have to wait for my remote hose clamp tool to come in to be able to get to it without taking the entire front end off.
I found my ABC leak. It appears to be part 220-320 59-72. I was looking for the leak and noticed a line that had an end cap on it. I pulled on it a bit to check it out and the whole line came off. I couldn't see that the entire line was exploded clean off because of the insulation / wrap on the connection. I was looking through EPC and decided to order part 220-320-57-72 which appears to include the part I need along with some other things. Hoping this the right part to order. My rear ABC values will need to be rebuilt soon since the rear of my car is sagging pretty badly from sitting. Front seems fine so it's a testament to fresh O-rings in the front valve.
Hoping to get the car back up and running soon. It'll be nice to be able to drive it to my new warehouse instead of towing.
I found my ABC leak. It appears to be part 220-320 59-72. I was looking for the leak and noticed a line that had an end cap on it. I pulled on it a bit to check it out and the whole line came off. I couldn't see that the entire line was exploded clean off because of the insulation / wrap on the connection. I was looking through EPC and decided to order part 220-320-57-72 which appears to include the part I need along with some other things.
I believe the first part number is the vibration damper, (the U-shaped hose to nowhere) and the second includes the damper plus the first of two sections that connect the pump outlet to the pressure regulator. The latter is the W220 bogey hose, and is difficult to replace. You either need to raise the engine or lower the subframe. I've done that several times and can advise.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Originally Posted by Welwynnick
I believe the first part number is the vibration damper, (the U-shaped hose to nowhere) and the second includes the damper plus the first of two sections that connect the pump outlet to the pressure regulator. The latter is the W220 bogey hose, and is difficult to replace. You either need to raise the engine or lower the subframe. I've done that several times and can advise.
By the way, which spark plugs did you fit?
All the best, Nick
I installed NGK IFR6Q-G
For the ABC hose, the end with nothing was what blew off. So if the other section is okay, I may leave it alone and replace it when I do the engine mounts.
2004 S600, 1998 M3, 1974 2002 Touring, 2006 Cayman S
Originally Posted by Welwynnick
I believe the first part number is the vibration damper, (the U-shaped hose to nowhere) and the second includes the damper plus the first of two sections that connect the pump outlet to the pressure regulator. The latter is the W220 bogey hose, and is difficult to replace. You either need to raise the engine or lower the subframe. I've done that several times and can advise.
By the way, which spark plugs did you fit?
All the best, Nick
I got to try removing the line today. Was able to fit a box wrench over the banjo bolt by reaching under the front of the bolt, but not enough leverage or space because my wrench is too long. power steering lines are in the way as well. Going to order a 72 teeth ratcheting box wrenches to give it a try. It's the last part needed to get my car running again.
If there are any model wrenches recommended, please post!
Last edited by roberttran; 03-29-2018 at 12:12 AM.
One thing to remember for certain - get the reversing ratcheting wrenches, not the ones that you turn over! Until you have done it, its hard to imagine the frustration of realizing that you have trapped your wrench on a bolt that is out too far to get the wrench off, so you can't turn it over to reverse it so you can screw the bolt back in to get the wrench off!
01-05-2018, 12:28 AM
