What happens after COMAND (inevitably?) dies
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
remember two comand amps can be fitted in the boot of the W221
Std euro vehicles got a half size, half price Panasonic small tuner amp - called a TTU (that sounds to my ear's at least as powerful, and if anything slightly better sound quality) - its doesn't have enough real power to control the speakers at mega crazy vols but then nor does the other unit. It also magically goes wrong just as frequently. Pulling this unit apart the fan plug socket is this mega small seldom used connector (seen inside a few laptop fans). This fan is tiny a SUNON 30mm 30mm 10mm two wire no speed feedback wire version running at 7 or 9k rpm and is such a low watt fan I was concerned trying to fit a big fan would pull too much power from the board.
the amp locates in the same area, but in a different orientation with the fan 3" from the boot floor trying to suck the heat downwards where it goes up and thus a tiny fan is just moving more and more heat around in a loop getting warmer and warmer - mine first played up on long drives in warm weather !!!
likely this 30mm x 30mm x 10mm deep
There is no room for the more common 40 x 40 mm fans, so I went external pushing heat upwards using something like a 40 x 40 x 50mm low speed, high airflow 0.6 amp fan (rather than the stock 0.38 amp fan)
can't find a link now ??? it had a long fan with a spiral shape
The Euro option HK amp seems to have been standard fitment in the USA - all your comand update discs only show the TUA big amp
this fails about as much or maybe a bit more than the small amp but its mega money - you can infact plug in the baby amp to big amp cars and a few speakers don't work.
Std euro vehicles got a half size, half price Panasonic small tuner amp - called a TTU (that sounds to my ear's at least as powerful, and if anything slightly better sound quality) - its doesn't have enough real power to control the speakers at mega crazy vols but then nor does the other unit. It also magically goes wrong just as frequently. Pulling this unit apart the fan plug socket is this mega small seldom used connector (seen inside a few laptop fans). This fan is tiny a SUNON 30mm 30mm 10mm two wire no speed feedback wire version running at 7 or 9k rpm and is such a low watt fan I was concerned trying to fit a big fan would pull too much power from the board.
the amp locates in the same area, but in a different orientation with the fan 3" from the boot floor trying to suck the heat downwards where it goes up and thus a tiny fan is just moving more and more heat around in a loop getting warmer and warmer - mine first played up on long drives in warm weather !!!
likely this 30mm x 30mm x 10mm deep
There is no room for the more common 40 x 40 mm fans, so I went external pushing heat upwards using something like a 40 x 40 x 50mm low speed, high airflow 0.6 amp fan (rather than the stock 0.38 amp fan)
can't find a link now ??? it had a long fan with a spiral shape
The Euro option HK amp seems to have been standard fitment in the USA - all your comand update discs only show the TUA big amp
this fails about as much or maybe a bit more than the small amp but its mega money - you can infact plug in the baby amp to big amp cars and a few speakers don't work.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 871
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Std euro vehicles got a half size, half price Panasonic small tuner amp - called a TTU (that sounds to my ear's at least as powerful, and if anything slightly better sound quality) - its doesn't have enough real power to control the speakers at mega crazy vols but then nor does the other unit. It also magically goes wrong just as frequently.
But in the mid 2000s there weren't that many really good factory systems yet. The 2010s would see a lot more high end stuff available in vehicles from factory.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
compressed audio files and transmissions allowed them all to move to systems that on the face of it sound pretty decent - but its smoke and mirrors - real grunt from an amp does it all better - its like a small highly tuned engine, it can be pretty quick and do OK, but try accelerating with the car full up on a big hill - the v8 manages it better...
I agree, the small amp in the back of the 221 I think is good - to 45% vol, the HK probably works OK to 55% but never sounded as good anywhere along the way
and yes I know you can wind either to 95% and its OK ish - but that's the high vol hiding the steep decline in quality - the speakers won't thank you doing it every day for 4 years and your ears will wish you tried it another way too
.
I agree, the small amp in the back of the 221 I think is good - to 45% vol, the HK probably works OK to 55% but never sounded as good anywhere along the way
and yes I know you can wind either to 95% and its OK ish - but that's the high vol hiding the steep decline in quality - the speakers won't thank you doing it every day for 4 years and your ears will wish you tried it another way too
.
Last edited by BOTUS; Sep 26, 2022 at 01:02 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,191
Likes: 242
From: Albuquerque
'10 CL550, '12 GL550
I hear that. In reality I'm not afraid of normal wear items, even the SCN coding is not a deal breaker anymore, since one can evacuate the codes preemptively.
However the COMAND is a black box to me. If it goes out, will you get AC? Will the seats work? It's scary that the tech is so integrated in the unit. Is there a complete Android unit that can take over all of that? So many hard questions...
However the COMAND is a black box to me. If it goes out, will you get AC? Will the seats work? It's scary that the tech is so integrated in the unit. Is there a complete Android unit that can take over all of that? So many hard questions...
If it fails, exchange for a rebuilt unit from Mercedes. Mercedes has an extensive rebuilt parts program.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
on the 221 the comand unit has controls for the AC and fans, and if fitted with options for the Massage seats and the Rear AC so these features need to be set up
the programming is there but if used or not needs coding
the programming is there but if used or not needs coding
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 828
From: Newcastle, WA
2019 S63 4Matic+, 2018 E400 Cabrio, wardens car.
I would not suggest replacing the factory amp but rather convert to an aftermarket unit. You can grab the optic signal from the factory amp and plug it into a NAVTV converter that will convert this signal to either RCA or TOSLINK and then plug that into a few really nice amps that can drive the factory speakers. Sound quality will be much better and you can do much more customization. Factory amp is garbage.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 60
Likes: 13
From: USA
All Diesel: 2014 GL350, 2012 S350, 2011 E350, 1998 E320 Turbodiesel
No, there is no way to entirely remove the factory amp, as it also contains the logic for the volume control which is digitally controlled. If you found a way to successfully remove the factory amp and use an aftermarket one, you'd need to add your own volume control mechanism as the steering wheel buttons and COMAND controls would no longer function.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 828
From: Newcastle, WA
2019 S63 4Matic+, 2018 E400 Cabrio, wardens car.
That was not my experience on my W222, I unplugged the MOST optical cable from the factory amp and plugged it into the NAVTV converter that gave me full audio and volume control including BT phone integration. I then ran 2 JL VXi amps for a sub and all factory speakers. Might be different on the W221 though.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 60
Likes: 13
From: USA
All Diesel: 2014 GL350, 2012 S350, 2011 E350, 1998 E320 Turbodiesel
That was not my experience on my W222, I unplugged the MOST optical cable from the factory amp and plugged it into the NAVTV converter that gave me full audio and volume control including BT phone integration. I then ran 2 JL VXi amps for a sub and all factory speakers. Might be different on the W221 though.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 871
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Useless nugget of history that no one asked for:
I once owned a 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. 80s and early 90s Cadillac audio architecture (actually I think this was more widespread than just Cadillac; I recall some GMT-400 trucks used this as well!) used a box in the trunk called a "CDM" which I can't recall what it stood for. This box did a few things. It was the tuner, so the coax antenna plugged directly into it (and in my Fleetwood, the CDM was right next to the antenna in the right rear trunk area). It was also the amp. A digital signal from the head unit was received by the CDM to change the volume. So the idea of the front of the car remotely controlling the volume command for an amp mounted elsewhere is nothing new.
However, the head unit was double DIN so replacing it with something else and scrapping the stock system was MUCH easier....I think mine needed a CDM and a pair of rear deck woofers and it operated perfectly the entire rest of the time I owned it. Ok, useless trivia complete.
I once owned a 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. 80s and early 90s Cadillac audio architecture (actually I think this was more widespread than just Cadillac; I recall some GMT-400 trucks used this as well!) used a box in the trunk called a "CDM" which I can't recall what it stood for. This box did a few things. It was the tuner, so the coax antenna plugged directly into it (and in my Fleetwood, the CDM was right next to the antenna in the right rear trunk area). It was also the amp. A digital signal from the head unit was received by the CDM to change the volume. So the idea of the front of the car remotely controlling the volume command for an amp mounted elsewhere is nothing new.
However, the head unit was double DIN so replacing it with something else and scrapping the stock system was MUCH easier....I think mine needed a CDM and a pair of rear deck woofers and it operated perfectly the entire rest of the time I owned it. Ok, useless trivia complete.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
'02 S500
Android returning functionality to the radio and HVAC system?
Forgive in advance for my ignorance but I have a question. Let's say that the factory COMAND unit went bad completely, no access through the screen or physical buttons. You could no longer even play the radio and also caused the HVAC controls to no longer work. Would you be able to get one of those nice W221 Android head units to replace the fried COMAND to control everything again? All these units talk to each other so getting an Android head unit would get all these systems to talk to each other again because of canbus modules would be connected once again, right? I've read that one of these units could help.
Is that true because I'm experiencing some issues similar to this?
Is that true because I'm experiencing some issues similar to this?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
if you like the wrong wide aspect - when what all cars need is taller not wider - I thought the android mess works around the comand headunit - but I don't know - BUT you still need the crazy money unreliable Amp the boot anyway
you could read the whole thread which has been running for years
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w221/710915-w221-android-touchscreen.html
.
you could read the whole thread which has been running for years
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w221/710915-w221-android-touchscreen.html
.
Last edited by BOTUS; Nov 12, 2022 at 03:53 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
'02 S500
if you like the wrong wide aspect - when what all cars need is taller not wider - I thought the android mess works around the comand headunit - but I don't know - BUT you still need the crazy money unreliable Amp the boot anyway
you could read the whole thread which has been running for years
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w221/710915-w221-android-touchscreen.html
.
you could read the whole thread which has been running for years
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w221/710915-w221-android-touchscreen.html
.
Wasn't there another thread that mentioned the refurbished amps that were available? I can't recall because I've been doing so much reading that my eyes are crossed and some of the facts are jumping together. Thank you so much for helping me get clarity.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
'02 S500
if you like the wrong wide aspect - when what all cars need is taller not wider - I thought the android mess works around the comand headunit - but I don't know - BUT you still need the crazy money unreliable Amp the boot anyways
.
.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
there are two normal issues
1) the common one that all 221 models get - regardless of the big or small amp, is the amp dies (they both sits in the boot behind the left rear whee - as does the individual option extras of TV, Euro DAB or USA Sirius tuners)
2) the extremely common issue on the facelift cars with NTG3.5 is the comand unit hard-drive gives up (this is inside the comand unit in the dash under the heater buttons), it is much rarer to fail on the earlier cars with NTG3.0 - but time moves on, so I guess we'll get more and more of this
the android unit is an addon primarily to give later in car entertainment features for freaks that want a smaller map view and lots of childish features we shouldn't use whilst driving
there are now later addons for the std comand unit, screen and amp, that brings BT music streaming, car play and andriod auto
looking at the thread from the link above I now don't think it does replace the comand unit - the bits I saw seems to put a bit of a brain in the wrong size screen that an interface to add the nasty extras to the standard set up
A failing Amp normally loses ONLY the sound everywhere and the the radio station names missing in AM FM - station info displays in DAB or Sirius (again no sound ANYWHERE) as both of those options, use different turners that haven't gone wrong. Remember the Amp is also the radio tuner for old LW SW FM AM broadcasts...
Yes the reason you have the Amp is as its a critical part of the MOST - so maybe the comand is also ? - which if true means the android thing its just an addon interface
1) the common one that all 221 models get - regardless of the big or small amp, is the amp dies (they both sits in the boot behind the left rear whee - as does the individual option extras of TV, Euro DAB or USA Sirius tuners)
2) the extremely common issue on the facelift cars with NTG3.5 is the comand unit hard-drive gives up (this is inside the comand unit in the dash under the heater buttons), it is much rarer to fail on the earlier cars with NTG3.0 - but time moves on, so I guess we'll get more and more of this
the android unit is an addon primarily to give later in car entertainment features for freaks that want a smaller map view and lots of childish features we shouldn't use whilst driving
there are now later addons for the std comand unit, screen and amp, that brings BT music streaming, car play and andriod auto
looking at the thread from the link above I now don't think it does replace the comand unit - the bits I saw seems to put a bit of a brain in the wrong size screen that an interface to add the nasty extras to the standard set up
A failing Amp normally loses ONLY the sound everywhere and the the radio station names missing in AM FM - station info displays in DAB or Sirius (again no sound ANYWHERE) as both of those options, use different turners that haven't gone wrong. Remember the Amp is also the radio tuner for old LW SW FM AM broadcasts...
Yes the reason you have the Amp is as its a critical part of the MOST - so maybe the comand is also ? - which if true means the android thing its just an addon interface
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 60
Likes: 13
From: USA
All Diesel: 2014 GL350, 2012 S350, 2011 E350, 1998 E320 Turbodiesel
Hvac is not in the MOST ring. A failed amplifier has no effect on Hvac function. When mine failed a while back, I had no sound through the speakers, and radio tuner wouldn't tune. Those were the only two symptoms. Hvac continued operating normally same as always.
