I think at this point it's important to look at the first post on this long thread...K-A said the S550 Coupe sucked big-time in the looks dept...inside & out.

Disagree. Ordering one when I return from My Xmas holiday on Maui.

 

This is how I know you don't have squat to combat a logical argument. All you have is your opinion and feelings about where a car is built and what parts are in it.

Gee let me install some German parts in a Chevy and maybe it will drive German. Is that how it goes?

Maybe I'll build a Chevy in Germany and it will drive German.

Makes perfect sense.

M

 

Not sure why there's trend of tales from an alternate reality (i.e lies) to justify peoples opinions here (actually I do know, but I'll save from going there). You know when people hurl insults or make things up to justify their favorite toys.... they aren't so confident on them deep down inside.

First post in this thread was:

Followed more people who agreed. My first post said nothing about the interior. In fact, I don't know if I've said anything about the interior, period.

 

Actually yes, a Chevy using mostly German parts, built in Germany, can constitute as a German car in quite a few ways, just like a Mercedes using mostly American parts, being built in America, Americanizes it. The car drives and feels more American than any C before it (softer than before, fit/finish lacking in areas, not as "tank like", more soulless). That's the only fact you need to know. Fanboys worship corporations, hence why you do, which means you don't understand the underlying product. I get it, car enthusiasm to you is eating up press material and pretending that a corporation is some singular being. But in real life, that isn't so. How a car is built and the quality of parts it uses and where they're sourced from is more fundamental than some magical Mercedes fairies sprinkling "German dust" according to you, all over their products. You don't know the first thing about product development, that's quite clear.

 

DONE!!! You actually think that by putting German parts in a Chevy it will drive German no matter what those parts are?

So you think that the C drives American because of where it is built?


WHAT DOES THE C FROM SOUTH AFRICA DRIVE LIKE?

WHAT DOES THE C FROM MALAYSIA DRIVE LIKE?

WHAT THE THE C FROM CHINA DRIVE LIKE?


SO IF INSTALL A GERMAN BUILT DASHBOARD IN A CHEVY IT WILL DRIVE LIKE A GERMAN CAR?????


You're going to honestly sit here and pretend that you don't understand suspension tuning, engines, transmission, steering doesn't form the basis for how a car drives?

I can install German built radiator in a Chevy and German built seat frame and wiring harness and the car DRIVES LIKE A GERMAN CAR?

Again, again, and again, I'm not talking about what the car is, American, German etc, that is a simpleton argument. It is still a German car no matter where it is built. I'm asking you do you think by simply installing German parts in a Chevy, regardless of what they are makes a Chevy drive like a German car?

M

 

I know the answer is "no" based on how inexperienced you seem, but have you ever been to Europe? Ever seen "American" cars built in those countries, driven them, noticed how vastly different some of them are than American built American cars? There's a tangible difference in what type of parts a car uses, how it's assembled, etc. It's baffling that you don't understand that. Suspension components, engine components, chassis materials, those are all parts that constitute how a car can drive. A car that's 60% American parts means that it consists of 60% American parts. Period. It's no coincidence that the S Class, SL, etc. still use mostly German parts, and still come from Germany.

Just because a parent corporation is German doesn't mean that they can release a car in America, using mostly American parts, and call it "100% German". C'mon, even you have to be smart enough to realize that. Take your head out of M-B's butt. You're the perfect customer, you treat it like a religion, will believe whatever they want you to. Problem is, you don't buy cars from them.

 

No. I'm saying that a Chevy using 60% German parts, built in Germany, can very well feel differently overall, and have a different perceptive quality than an American built Chevy that's using 60% American parts. In fact I know it, because there are cars out there that have a similar story.

In the W205 Reviews thread, many people stated that they felt a sense of "lack of German-ness" in the way the W205 comes off (fit/finish, feel) or drives. To me, it feels more Americanized through and through. How you don't draw the parallel between that and how it's literally an "American Mercedes" is kind of nuts.

 

Now you're beginning to see how ridiculous your argument is. Now that you realize that simple parts don't dictate how a car drives, did it ever occur to you that Mercedes or any other car companies changes suspension settings and other ride and handling setting to suit the market in question?

Do you really not see this? It is totally irrelevant as to what parts are in the car and where they come from!!! That is the point.

Ok, now I get it, you're just being obtuse right? I JUST SAID THESE SAME THINGS TO YOU TO OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

You are confused. Severely.

You're arguing about what the parts makes up and percentage of those parts determine what the car is! STOP. Not arguing that.

I'm talking about how the car drives.

AGAIN YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET IT?

I THOUGHT YOU DID, BUT YOU DON'T.

You're so damn lost is a crying shame. Don't you get that a control arm or a steering rack is the same specification no matter where it comes from? Mercedes orders the part to the same specification no matter where it comes from. A German steering rack is no different from an American one, it is the same specification!

The S and SL use mostly German parts because they are built in Germany!!! DUH.



Again, this is not how the industry works. Very few if any cars are 100% anything anymore. Don't you know that?

This isn't even my point. Point being that where the car is built and where the parts from don't determine how it drives.

OTHERWISE PROVE THAT THE AMERICAN BUILT C-CLASS HAS AN AMERICAN ENGINE, TRANSMISSION AND SUSPENSION COMPONENTS. EVEN IF IT DID, WHICH IT DOESN'T, THAT DOESN'T DETERMINE HOW THE CAR DRIVES.

THAT IS WHAT THE ENGINEERS DO IN GERMANY DURING DEVELOPMENT THEN THE PARTS OF THE CAR ARE ORDERED AND ASSEMBLED TO THOSE SPECIFICATIONS.

The location of the assembly line and the country of origin for the parts DO NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.

The C-Class clearly moved back away from trying to be an all out sports sedan and it focuses on luxury. Don't you see that? Or do you think MB Americanized the C for the entire world, even Germany? Oh let me guess the German C-Class feels totally different and drives better right because of where its parts come from, not because of different suspension, steering and transmission calibrations or settings?

Sheer ignorance..........

M

 

IT ISN'T BECAUSE OF THE PARTS. A CHEVY SOLD IN GERMANY WILL HAVE DIFFERENT SUSPENSION SETTINGS FOR THAT MARKET. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHERE THE CONTROL ARMS OR BUSHINGS OR DAMPERS COME FROM!!!!!!! OMG THIS IS THE MOST IDIOTIC NOTION EVER.

I'm not talking about fit and finish, I'm talking about feel and how the car drives. THAT IS NOT DICTATED BY WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM. THE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION ARE GERMAN ANYWAYS.

That is because they backed away from being a sports sedan first and foremost and they concentrated on luxury. EVERY C-CLASS BUILT AROUND THE WORLD IS SOFTER AND MORE LUXURIOUS THAN BEFORE.

YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE WHEN THE PRESS DROVE THE CARS THEY DROVE EUROPEAN BUILT C-CLASSES AND THEY SAID THE SAME THINGS MONTHS AGO, LESS SPORT, MORE LUXURY.

THE AMERICAN SPEC C-CLASSES DIDN'T EVEN START PRODUCTION UNTIL LATE JULY EARLY AUGUST, LONG AFTER THE REVIEWS WERE ALREADY IN.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

M

 

Firstly, yes, where a part comes from CAN have different immediate or long term affects. E.g if Mercedes designs a steering rack, and gets company A from Germany who charges a premium to make it, and then gets company B in America who charges less, it CAN determine especially long term affects. That is, of course, if company B doesn't build it to the same quality standards as company A.

The U.S C Class is a car designed by a German company, using mostly American parts, built in America. That is a fact. How do you know that its engine isn't using American sourced parts? American parts constitute the majority of the car, so it's more likely that they are. How do I know that those parts are inferior? I don't, but they're more cost effective for Mercedes, and German parts are considered the most premium source for German cars, just like German assembly is, duh.

And no, they don't always tune their suspensions differently for different markets. More likely it's what I'm saying that would constitute variances.

People talk all the time about variances in quality from country to country when it comes to how cars are built. Your confusion here stems from you not being able to understand that how a car is built and the type of parts it uses, could determine how it drives, feels, etc. Yes, Mercedes designs the parts, but there CAN be variances with different suppliers. It's up to Daimler to ensure that it's all streamlined to maintain a universal consistency, but as we all know, that's easier said than done.

 

AGAIN, AND AGAIN, WHAT DOES LONG TERM AFFECTS HAVE TO DO WITH HOW THE CAR DRIVES TODAY?

Typical, not you're changing your argument. Now you're going argue long term? We're not talking about reliability or durability. You know what you're saying doesn't pass common sense which is why you're changing your argument.

NO ONE is arguing who designed the car or where it is built, only that parts make up does not determine how a car drives! You just admit that you don't know squat for sure, but you're going on.

You're back pedaling away from your initial theory about a car driving American because it is built here. DUH is right, because you are clueless to think what you do.

So what does the South African built C Class drive like?

Due tell.

Yep and I believe, but that has nothing to do with the feel of the car when driving it. Tell me how an American dashboard or seat frame makes a car drive American? Quality control differences are in paint, body panel fitment, not how the car drives because those specifications aren't determined by the assembly line worker and what he does with the car. All he does it put together the car, he doesn't tune the ride and handling. German built seat frames don't change how a car drives vs American seat frames.

YES THEY DO. CALL MBUSA AND ASK THEM. ASK ANY ENGINEER FROM GM, FORD OR ANY OTHER CAR COMPANY. SUSPENSION SETTINGS VARY FROM MARKET TO MARKET FOR RIDE AND HANDING, HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS AND A MYRIAD OF OTHER FACTORS.

YOU ARE TOTALLY OUT TO LUNCH IF YOU THINK THAT SUSPENSION SETTINGS FOR A C-CLASS IN ENGLAND WITH THEIR ROADS IS THE SAME AS OURS!

OMG, CLUELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


M

 

No. Not ALL cars have different suspension tuning for different markets! The BMW M Sport suspension for the 5 carries over from Germany, exactly. Many suspensions do. Again, you ingest information bluntly, and think in extremes. Not a great mix.

That's a big reason why some people feel that certain cars are wrong for certain markets, because they carry tuning from their motherland markets. Have you just become a car enthusiast overnight?

YES, where a car is DESIGNED determines how it drives. Yes, long term quality DOES prove my point because it has to do with the inherent QUALITY of a part. That same quality down to the slightest detail can affect how a car feels. A car is a sum of parts, it can only drive as good as the parts it's built upon.

You brought up the "how does it drive" nonsense. I said that the new C feels more Americanized and it consists of American parts, plain and simple. Excuses or reasons as to why it drives more Americanized aren't my issue. It does, and it's built in America with predominantly American parts. That's all there is to it.

Does it drive more Americanized? Check. Does it consist of more American parts? Check. Is it built in America? Check. Does it lack that tank-like feel that the previous C had? Check. Have there been reportings of misaligned buttons, loose door handles, hanging trim, etc.? Check. How or why you argue that is ridiculous.

 

We're not talking about BMW are we? Nice try, but you don't know what you're talking about, again. Car makers tune suspension differently for different markets more often than not.

I'm talking about Mercedes here, not some cars. Mercedes only. Again, another feeble attempt to deflect away from your ridiculous original statement.


Really? Who was arguing that were the car designed determined anything. Again, WHERE THE CAR IS BUILT IS THE ISSUE HERE AND THE PARTS, NOT WHERE IT DESIGNED. LONG TERM QUALITY ISN'T THE ISSUE HERE AND YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT ABOUT THE LONG TERM QUALITY ABOUT THE C-CLASS AS IT JUST CAME OUT.

THE PARTS DON'T DICTATE HOW THE CAR DRIVES, AND THAT HAS NOTHING DO WITH LONGER TERM QUALITY.

NOW YOU'RE JUST THROWING WHATEVER TO WALL TO SEE WHAT STICKS.

YOU'RE LOST AND CONFUSED IN YOUR OWN NONSENSE. WHAT YOU JUST SAID MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE.




NO YOU SAID SPECIFICALLY THAT IT DRIVES MORE AMERICAN. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID AND NOW YOU'RE BACKING AWAY FROM IT BECAUSE YOU SEE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT WAS!!!

I KNEW YOU WOULD DO THAT.

PARTS AND WHERE THEY'RE FROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE CAR DRIVES. PERIOD.

YOU'RE THE ONE THAT SAID THE C DROVE AMERICAN, UNLESS YOU'RE GOING LIE ABOUT IT NOW?



THEN YOU TURN AROUND AND SAY THE SAME THING YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU DIDN'T SAY? AMAZING!!!!!

FIT AND FINISH HAS NOTHING DO WITH HOW THE CAR DRIVES. WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

DIDN'T I JUST SAY THAT I WASN'T ARGUING ABOUT THE ASSEMBLY QUALITY OF THE CARS BUILT HERE? I KNOW THERE WILL BE ISSUES WITH FIT AND FINISH FROM A NEW CAR IN A NEW PLANT (FOR THAT CAR). DUH. NO ONE WAS ARGUING THAT, YET YOU KEEP REPEATING IT BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'RE WRONG ON THINKING THAT A CAR DRIVES AMERICAN BECAUSE OF WHERE IT IS BUILT OR WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM.

M

 

Ohh, oh, don't backpedal now. You can very well see I'm speaking universally here re: suspension tuning in different markets.

The C DOES drive more American (to me, and many others seem to express a similar sentiment)! The build quality also feels more American (again, echo'd by quite a few others)! It also uses mostly American (or Canadian) parts! YOU brought up the twisted "why does it/doesn't it drive American" thing. I never brought that up other than to say that the entire car feels more Americanized and that I don't think it's any coincidence considering how literally Americanized it is.

You yourself said that M-B (apparently) tunes things differently for every market.... Which means that you agree with me! You don't realize the very likely possibility that along with the higher American parts content, those parts may have been designed to emphasis a more American feel thus sacrificing the sacred "German-ness" that the W205 seems to lack? If that's the case, then YES, the new C will drive differently based on where it's built. You just admitted that yourself! Ding.

My ORIGINAL argument about the Americanization of the car was based around the overall FEEL. Parts and assembly absolutely can attribute that.

 

What? I just said that they do change suspension tuning for different market you said that don't. I said that they do. THAT IS NOT BACK PEDALING, I'VE SAID THE SAME THING EVERY SINGLE TIME. NICE TRY. Pretending to be slow won't get you out of what you said earlier.


There you go again, saying how it drives American. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHERE IT IS BUILT OR THE PARTS MAKE UP. AGAIN.


I SAID THAT THEY TUNE THE SUSPENSION DIFFERENTLY FOR DIFFERENT MARKETS!!! LEARN HOW TO READ. I DON'T AGREE WITH SQUAT YOU'VE SAID HERE. NOTHING.

HOW A SUSPENSION IS TUNED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PARTS AND WHERE THEY COME FROM. PARTS ARE JUST PARTS AND THEY ARE BOUGHT TO SPECIFICATION BY MB. YOU'RE CONFUSED AND TRYING TO ACT LIKE I SAID SOMETHING IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU . I DIDN'T.

PARTS ORIGIN DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.

ASSEMBLY LOCATION DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU SINCE YOU SEEM CONFUSED AGAIN.


A radiator, seat, window, etc are matterless as to how a car drives. Don't you get that? Parts don't dictate how a car drives. That is done by the engineers calibrating each car for every individual market. It has NOTHING to do with where the parts come from or where the car is physically built.




And you continue to say how the car drives. CAN YOU NOT REMEMBER WHA YOU TYPE OF ONE MIN TO THE NEXT?

YOU JUST SAID:

HOW THE CAR DRIVES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHERE IT IS BUILT OR WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM. CARS ARE TUNED FOR DIFFERENT MARKETS VIA SUSPENSION, ENGINE, TRANSMISSION SETTINGS AND CALIBRATIONS, THE PARTS THEMSELVES AND WHERE THEY COME FROM OR WHERE THE CAR IS BUILT DOES NOT DETERMINE THIS.

M

 

OMG, you're backpedalling so much I think you've hit the edge of earth. You admitted that I was right by saying "it's not about BMW". I never said that it was M-B specific. Don't act like you know that M-B changes suspension variances on all cars, in all markets. I'm speaking on practice in the INDUSTRY, hence the Chevy comparison. You find yourself losing yet another argument so you shift the topic.

Why is why it drives how it drives so important to you? That's irrelevant. It drives and feels more Americanized to me. PERIOD. It also is built in America and consists of mostly American parts. You already admitted that M-B will design cars to drive differently in different markets. Which means that maybe they took it too far on the American side this time, since it's the first time they've built a C in America. The car just doesn't feel as Germanic as before, many people have stated the same, and it clearly isn't all no coincidence.

 

[QUOTE=Germancar1;6201862]

I beg you:
Stop feeding the troll,

This one is just another interesting thread destroyed.........

 

[QUOTE=absent;6201904]

 

Lol. In your 9 posts here, has one been anything other than a " " to go all "yeah git im" on someones post that wasn't even intended to be funny?

Touche.

 

Lets all sit down and have lunch.

 

BTW, my dealer just got the coupe in! I'm a hard judge I'll admit. I'm excited to see this thing is person, and hope I'm wrong on the looks from the photos I've seen. Some cars don't always photograph well. Like some women.

 

[QUOTE=Sol01;6201912]Like a zit on a teenager's face, leave it alone and it will disappear eventually.
That's all that character is, a nasty ,oily zit......

 

See this is another attempt to save face we're talking about a MB on a MB board. NO ONE IS BACK PEDALING. I'VE SAID THE SAME THING FROM DAY ONE.

ALL COMPANIES CHANGE SUSPENSION SETTINGS ON CARS FOR DIFFERENT MARKETS. IT DEPENDS ON THE MARKET AND THE CAR. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MERCEDES BENZ.

PARTS ORIGIN DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.

ASSEMBLY LOCATION DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.


NO I DIDN'T ADMIT YOU WERE YOU RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING, I JUST STATED THIS ISN'T ABOUT BMW WHICH IT ISN'T. THIS ABOUT YOUR IDIOTIC BELIEF THAT A C-CLASS DRIVES AMERICAN BECAUSE OF WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM AND BECAUSE OF WHERE IT IS BUILT.


PARTS ORIGIN DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.

ASSEMBLY LOCATION DOES NOT DICTATE HOW A CAR DRIVES.


I HAVE SAID THIS SINCE POST #1. NOTHING HAS CHANGED HERE.

YOU'RE ONLY SAYING THAT I'M BACK PEDALING BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW STUPID YOUR ARGUMENT IS.

ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION, YOU'RE THE ONE THAT SAID THAT THE C-CLASS DRIVES AMERICAN. WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT IT DRIVES LIKE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BUY ONE ?

NO I SAID THAT HOW A CAR DRIVES VARIES DEPENDING ON SUSPENSION TUNING AND OTHER FACTORS, NOT BASED ON WHERE THE CAR IS BUILT OR WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM.

AGAIN, WHAT PART OF THE REVIEWS WERE OF GERMAN BUILT C-CLASSES DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

THE CAR MOVED AWAY FROM BEING A SPORTS SEDAN FIRST AND FOREMOST, IT IS SOFTER THAN BEFORE, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHERE WHERE THE CAR IS BUILT OR WHERE THE PARTS CAME FROM SINCE EVERY C-CLASS AROUND THE WORLD IS SOFTER AND LESS SPORTY THAN BEFORE. DON'T YOU GET THAT?

I HAVE SAID THE SAME THINGS FROM DAY ONE:

SUSPENSION, ENGINE, BRAKES, TRANSMISSION AND OTHER THINGS DETERMINE HOW A CAR DRIVES, NOT WHERE THE PARTS COME FROM OR WHERE THE IS BUILT. PERIOD.

THESE ARE ENGINEERING POINTS, NOT ASSEMBLY LINE AFFECTED.

M

 

Thread completely destroyed.

Are there no moderators on here to clean this up. I was expecting a thread filled with pictures and info.

KA - you are wanted on the Bimmerforums.

 

[QUOTE=absent;6202059]I concur. not even worth responding to his pitiful remarks