Why One Should Not Buy A Tesla Model S
07-15-2016, 02:16 PM
#326
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Btw. In Germany, the equivalent of the DOT? said it would have never authorized the use of Autopilot on German roads if Tesla would have disclosed that this isn't proven and tested software but simply in-process beta software.
There is a reason why other car makers requires frequent touching of the steering wheel. Whatever is on the market is an assistive system at best. That includes Tesla. Unfortunately, is hasn't been used that way due to misleading marketing...
There is a reason why other car makers requires frequent touching of the steering wheel. Whatever is on the market is an assistive system at best. That includes Tesla. Unfortunately, is hasn't been used that way due to misleading marketing...
07-15-2016, 04:22 PM
#327
07-15-2016, 06:44 PM
#328
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So, are you insinuating that "dash cam video of me passing a Ferrari 488 on the highway the other day in my Infiniti SUV" is irrelevant and that therefore "It seems in the video, it was the P85D that was doing the passing" is equally irrelevant?
07-15-2016, 07:43 PM
#329
Yes, exactly. I'm glad you understood my post.
07-15-2016, 09:00 PM
#330
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So, Jay, why is the following statement irrelevant in your eyes: But this statement oh so relevant in your eyes:
Please do try to explain.
Please do try to explain.
07-16-2016, 12:16 AM
#331
Happy to explain.
In a YouTube video with no knowledge of who's driving what car there are too many unknowns to make a determination of the reason why one car is faster than another.
The biggest unknow being the quality of the driver. An inexperienced driver in a Mclaren P1 could get passed by an experienced driver in a Volvo wagen. Other unknowns that affect the speed on any given lap or sector:
Are they on a warm up sector (getting their tires and brakes up to temp), cool down sector (the opposite)? Are they working on some technique and thus going slower? What is their track experience ie first time on the ring? First time on a track? Etc etc. So from a YouTube video with absolutely no knowledge of the cars, their setup, their modifications, the drivers etc you can not make any solid conclusions as to a "car" being faster than another. Though that is what you are trying to do. You can't. It's silly.
On a track where I know the drivers, know their capabilities, know the track, know the track times, etc I am able to conclude with much more certainty the reasons why one car is going faster than another. The Tesla was slow because it's heavy. It also has limited power at higher speeds. There are no straight line segments from 0-60 at Mosport. I spoke to the tesla driver about his experience, he was pushing it as hard as he could. He said he was impressed but it was still an absolute pig. He was passed by everyone because everyone else was in a car that at least somewhat belongs on a track. He was in a 5000 pound SEDAN. No matter how much pixy dust Elon sprinkles on the Tesla, you just can't beat physics in the corners. I've also been on the track with an S550. It's also terrible. But you won't see any merc fanboys trying to espouse anything else.
Now I must say that he driver of the Tesla in your video did a great job. He clearly has a lot of track experience and knows the ring well. I was impressed with his driving. I mean he was only a minute and a half off the times put up by the Panameras. Respectable indeed.
What I was most impressed with was the fact that his batteries didn't overheat (which is what happens to most that try to pull of runs like that in Teslas).
As for you making some sort of conclusion that a tesla can be even spoken about in the same sentence as a GT3 when talking about track performance is a total joke. Shows you have absolutely no general car knowledge. If you want to make a relevant comment on how well a Tesla or any other car does on the track a simple google of Nurburgring lap times would give you a much better idea and alow you to make informed and relevant comments on the topic. It's not very often that a tesla can even make it around a full lap under full power though.
Hope this helps clarify things. Let me know if you have any more questions.
In a YouTube video with no knowledge of who's driving what car there are too many unknowns to make a determination of the reason why one car is faster than another.
The biggest unknow being the quality of the driver. An inexperienced driver in a Mclaren P1 could get passed by an experienced driver in a Volvo wagen. Other unknowns that affect the speed on any given lap or sector:
Are they on a warm up sector (getting their tires and brakes up to temp), cool down sector (the opposite)? Are they working on some technique and thus going slower? What is their track experience ie first time on the ring? First time on a track? Etc etc. So from a YouTube video with absolutely no knowledge of the cars, their setup, their modifications, the drivers etc you can not make any solid conclusions as to a "car" being faster than another. Though that is what you are trying to do. You can't. It's silly.
On a track where I know the drivers, know their capabilities, know the track, know the track times, etc I am able to conclude with much more certainty the reasons why one car is going faster than another. The Tesla was slow because it's heavy. It also has limited power at higher speeds. There are no straight line segments from 0-60 at Mosport. I spoke to the tesla driver about his experience, he was pushing it as hard as he could. He said he was impressed but it was still an absolute pig. He was passed by everyone because everyone else was in a car that at least somewhat belongs on a track. He was in a 5000 pound SEDAN. No matter how much pixy dust Elon sprinkles on the Tesla, you just can't beat physics in the corners. I've also been on the track with an S550. It's also terrible. But you won't see any merc fanboys trying to espouse anything else.
Now I must say that he driver of the Tesla in your video did a great job. He clearly has a lot of track experience and knows the ring well. I was impressed with his driving. I mean he was only a minute and a half off the times put up by the Panameras. Respectable indeed.
What I was most impressed with was the fact that his batteries didn't overheat (which is what happens to most that try to pull of runs like that in Teslas).
As for you making some sort of conclusion that a tesla can be even spoken about in the same sentence as a GT3 when talking about track performance is a total joke. Shows you have absolutely no general car knowledge. If you want to make a relevant comment on how well a Tesla or any other car does on the track a simple google of Nurburgring lap times would give you a much better idea and alow you to make informed and relevant comments on the topic. It's not very often that a tesla can even make it around a full lap under full power though.
Hope this helps clarify things. Let me know if you have any more questions.
07-16-2016, 07:02 AM
#332
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Thanks, Jay. I do accept your explanation, but only to a point. I do think the posted video still has some relevance, though not as much as the Mosport day you relate, for the following reasons:
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
Last edited by syswei; 07-16-2016 at 07:10 AM.
07-16-2016, 07:58 AM
#333
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Thanks, Jay. I do accept your explanation, but only to a point. I do think the posted video still has some relevance, though not as much as the Mosport day you relate, for the following reasons:
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
07-16-2016, 08:18 AM
#334
Thanks, Jay. I do accept your explanation, but only to a point. I do think the posted video still has some relevance, though not as much as the Mosport day you relate, for the following reasons:
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
07-16-2016, 08:55 AM
#335
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That is a good point. Maybe Tesla is preparing some new tricks for the P100D, and/or a next-gen Model S. The technology is early in its life and likely to enjoy a steeper improvement ramp than ICE cars.
07-16-2016, 10:30 AM
#336
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07-16-2016, 10:37 AM
#337
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I think everyone would be interested to see that data on a P90 driven by a professional driver on the ring. I wonder why it doesn't exist? It's usually some of the first data that any car comes out with when bragging that they have a fast car. I remember when the Panamera's came out no one could believe that a sedan could go around the ring that fast, but they proved it time and time again.
I only have a P85D and don't even have Ludicrous Mode but in regular city driving I can leave any AMG to eat my dust whenever I want to. Of course we are talking about out accelerating someone and perhaps making a safe lane change in front of them with plenty of room to spare not driving into triple digit speeds.
The only time a combustion car would have an edge presently is for sustained triple digit speeds but I don't know of any Tesla owners who track race their cars. They just occasionally leave combustion vehicles making embarrassing farting sounds in the dust in day to day driving.
The upcoming Porsche Mission E is reportedly capable of sustained high speed driving and it is only a matter of time until EV drivetrains dominate track racing.
07-16-2016, 10:45 AM
#338
MBWorld Fanatic!
The Gigafactory is coming online on July 29. The batteries from the Gigafactory will be of a newer composition for better performance along with the ability for faster charging so the Model S is about to receive a nice update.
07-16-2016, 10:54 AM
#339
Now we no longer care about going around corners and track times? I thought that was the point of posting a track video and bragging about ring times in the previous post? I thought that's what we were talking about here? I'll let you guys get back to your straight line propaganda.
It's because people buy a Model S P90D with Ludicrous Mode note to race around a circle but to use it in day to day driving as their primary car. In that setting and for regular street driving the Tesla is pretty much invincible.
I only have a P85D and don't even have Ludicrous Mode but in regular city driving I can leave any AMG to eat my dust whenever I want to. Of course we are talking about out accelerating someone and perhaps making a safe lane change in front of them with plenty of room to spare not driving into triple digit speeds.
The only time a combustion car would have an edge presently is for sustained triple digit speeds but I don't know of any Tesla owners who track race their cars. They just occasionally leave combustion vehicles making embarrassing farting sounds in the dust in day to day driving.
The upcoming Porsche Mission E is reportedly capable of sustained high speed driving and it is only a matter of time until EV drivetrains dominate track racing.
I only have a P85D and don't even have Ludicrous Mode but in regular city driving I can leave any AMG to eat my dust whenever I want to. Of course we are talking about out accelerating someone and perhaps making a safe lane change in front of them with plenty of room to spare not driving into triple digit speeds.
The only time a combustion car would have an edge presently is for sustained triple digit speeds but I don't know of any Tesla owners who track race their cars. They just occasionally leave combustion vehicles making embarrassing farting sounds in the dust in day to day driving.
The upcoming Porsche Mission E is reportedly capable of sustained high speed driving and it is only a matter of time until EV drivetrains dominate track racing.
07-16-2016, 10:56 AM
#340
sounds like a one bitter angry Activist.
It's because people buy a Model S P90D with Ludicrous Mode note to race around a circle but to use it in day to day driving as their primary car. In that setting and for regular street driving the Tesla is pretty much invincible.
I only have a P85D and don't even have Ludicrous Mode but in regular city driving I can leave any AMG to eat my dust whenever I want to. Of course we are talking about out accelerating someone and perhaps making a safe lane change in front of them with plenty of room to spare not driving into triple digit speeds.
The only time a combustion car would have an edge presently is for sustained triple digit speeds but I don't know of any Tesla owners who track race their cars. They just occasionally leave combustion vehicles making embarrassing farting sounds in the dust in day to day driving.
The upcoming Porsche Mission E is reportedly capable of sustained high speed driving and it is only a matter of time until EV drivetrains dominate track racing.
I only have a P85D and don't even have Ludicrous Mode but in regular city driving I can leave any AMG to eat my dust whenever I want to. Of course we are talking about out accelerating someone and perhaps making a safe lane change in front of them with plenty of room to spare not driving into triple digit speeds.
The only time a combustion car would have an edge presently is for sustained triple digit speeds but I don't know of any Tesla owners who track race their cars. They just occasionally leave combustion vehicles making embarrassing farting sounds in the dust in day to day driving.
The upcoming Porsche Mission E is reportedly capable of sustained high speed driving and it is only a matter of time until EV drivetrains dominate track racing.
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07-16-2016, 02:19 PM
#341
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Thanks, Jay. I do accept your explanation, but only to a point. I do think the posted video still has some relevance, though not as much as the Mosport day you relate, for the following reasons:
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
We do know that the P85D was driven by an amateur driver, was a stock car, with stock 19" wheels and stock tires. It seems unlikely that other cars at Nurburgring were DE-tuned or modified to be slower than stock.
We do know that the time would have been somewhat faster if there had been no traffic, or less traffic; if he had been in a P90D; or if he had had different wheels and tires. As I posted earlier, independent (C&D) testing put the P90D's 50-70 at 1.8s, vs 2.9s for the P85D.
We do know that the P85D passed a lot of cars, and was passed by none. Maybe all the other cars were driven by 90 year olds but I kind of doubt it. I will grant that the M3 was faster...it started ahead, and finished an unknown distance farther ahead...though we don't know if the M3 was modified (and do know the P85D was not).
We do NOT know what would happen if a single driver drove both a M3 (or Panamera or whatever) and a P90D (with Ludicrous option) and regenerative braking set to low (to limit battery heat generation) with identical wheels (to the extent possible) and tires.
How much better might the Tesla lap time have been with a professional driver, a closed course, ideal (for that track) wheels and tires, a P90D (Ludicrous optioned) rather than P85D, regenerative braking set to low...we don't know. So comparisons between the video and googled lap times for other cars that might have been driven by professional drivers, on a closed course, with better wheels and tires, etc, have limited relevance, imo.
You may be missing that this wasn't a race on the Nürburgring. This was one of those open days (tourist days) where anybody can pay some money to drive either a section or the whole track.
This is why there will be Porsches, motor cycles along with minis, beetles and vans.
Passing cars in that setup means nothing unless one starts chasing the other. In this case, the M3 was going by himself, as was the the Tesla. You could just see that the M3 was handling the track nicely and was quickly out accelerating the Tesla. That's it.
Btw. Am certain that the M3 had stock tires and wheels too. In Germany, any car able to go 155mph will have high-performance tires as stock tires.
07-16-2016, 03:22 PM
#342
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Now we no longer care about going around corners and track times? I thought that was the point of posting a track video and bragging about ring times in the previous post? I thought that's what we were talking about here? I'll let you guys get back to your straight line propaganda.
Porsche will be building a car that addresses this deficiency when the Mission E comes out and by then Tesla too will likely address the issue of sustained triple digit speeds. Tesla has already addressed the issue of high speed acceleration with the Ludicrous Mode option so now it is a matter of how long you can keep triple digit speeds.
The fact that a Tesla can obliterate pretty much any other combustion car in day to day driving situations is not propaganda, it is a fact. By the time a combustion car sets fire to tiny drops of gasoline and moves a convoluted set of mechanical gears the Tesla is long gone.
07-17-2016, 06:09 AM
#343
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07-17-2016, 07:02 AM
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Actually I think he did become heat-limited. Early on, at 1:52, he hits 221kph for example, but on the final straight, at 8:49, only manages 155.
Last edited by syswei; 07-17-2016 at 07:06 AM.
07-17-2016, 07:51 AM
#346
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BTW I haven't scanned the whole video to see if he ever exceeded the 221kph I posted earlier, but if he didn't, it would be a sign that the P85D he was using was not outfitted with the Ludicrous mode upgrade.
07-17-2016, 08:04 AM
#347
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Here are some comments from professional driver Robb Holland, about a Nurburgring lap in a P60 about two years ago:
...I have to admit I was pretty impressed. Yes, it was heavy. Yes, it had almost no mechanical grip. And yes, the steering was as numb as my jaw after a trip to the dentist. However, considering that the Model S is a brand new car, from a car company that didn't exist 10 years ago, using technology that had (at the time of founding of the company) never been successfully mass produced on any large scale, I am suitably impressed....unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3 minutes in due to excess battery heat....However, before it did it was able to keep a GT3 RS going full chat, within shouting distance (at the 2:00 mark) far longer than any 4,700lb sedan has a right to. article link
...I have to admit I was pretty impressed. Yes, it was heavy. Yes, it had almost no mechanical grip. And yes, the steering was as numb as my jaw after a trip to the dentist. However, considering that the Model S is a brand new car, from a car company that didn't exist 10 years ago, using technology that had (at the time of founding of the company) never been successfully mass produced on any large scale, I am suitably impressed....unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3 minutes in due to excess battery heat....However, before it did it was able to keep a GT3 RS going full chat, within shouting distance (at the 2:00 mark) far longer than any 4,700lb sedan has a right to. article link
Last edited by syswei; 07-17-2016 at 08:12 AM.
07-17-2016, 10:56 AM
#348
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One big differentiator is that Porsche will be using an 800V battery pack in their Mission E while Tesla uses ~ 400V battery pack. This could also be how Porsche claims they can deliver a full recharge in 15 minutes.
The Porsche Mission E seems to be designed from he ground up for sustained high performance driving while the Model S was designed for day to day driving with superior acceleration to just about anything else on the road but for not sustained racing. This is the gap that Porsche seems to be closing.
We will know soon enough when the Mission E is out what is what. Tesla is more ahead in EV propulsion and battery technology than any other automaker so by the time the Mission E comes out I would not be surprised if Tesla releases a Model S variant that matches or exceeds the Mission E specs.
All in all I'm really glad Porsche and Mercedes will be finally offering compelling EVs in about 2 years from now. More competition will result in better vehicles and as much as I like Tesla I wish they had some competition.
The Porsche Mission E seems to be designed from he ground up for sustained high performance driving while the Model S was designed for day to day driving with superior acceleration to just about anything else on the road but for not sustained racing. This is the gap that Porsche seems to be closing.
We will know soon enough when the Mission E is out what is what. Tesla is more ahead in EV propulsion and battery technology than any other automaker so by the time the Mission E comes out I would not be surprised if Tesla releases a Model S variant that matches or exceeds the Mission E specs.
All in all I'm really glad Porsche and Mercedes will be finally offering compelling EVs in about 2 years from now. More competition will result in better vehicles and as much as I like Tesla I wish they had some competition.
07-17-2016, 11:30 AM
#349
Hey Web, do you have any sources for these statements? You seem to have some good insider info into Porsches motivations. As well you seem to have read some engineering papers comparing the beta technologies for each of the automakers on EV propulsion. Care to divulge your source? I'd like to read them.
07-17-2016, 04:28 PM
#350
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hey Web, do you have any sources for these statements? You seem to have some good insider info into Porsches motivations. As well you seem to have read some engineering papers comparing the beta technologies for each of the automakers on EV propulsion. Care to divulge your source? I'd like to read them.
Porsche has quite a bit of detailed information about the Mission E on their own Web site. From what I gather it will really be a phenomenal EV (not a stupid BS hybrid, like their past efforts). Most likely they will have a hard time selling their combustion variants when the Mission E comes out as it addresses sustained high speed driving and charging in 15 minutes.
Acceleration 0-100 km/h < 3.5 sec
Acceleration 0-200 km/h < 12 sec
Top speed > 250 km/h
Power > 440 kW (> 600 hp)
Range > 500 km (300 Miles)
System voltage 800 V
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/mis...aspx#/interior
And here's a video of the beautiful premium modern interior. It looks better than what is currently offered by Tesla but it is interesting to note that the Porsche interior designer just left the company to work for Tesla.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/11/tesla-...hes-mission-e/
