This Car Sucks: A W223 Review
01-16-2023, 11:20 PM
#126
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Baloo588 (01-17-2023)
01-17-2023, 03:14 AM
#127
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2021 S450 4Matic
Vintage and Vintage are a totally different category.
I doubt the W222 (and in fact, the W223 too) will make it into this level of classics fifty years from now.
By 2023+50=2073, I will not be around to find out...lol
I doubt the W222 (and in fact, the W223 too) will make it into this level of classics fifty years from now.
By 2023+50=2073, I will not be around to find out...lol
01-17-2023, 10:20 AM
#128
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I would have said I agree with that, but seeing some of the contemporary cars people are starting to regard as classics, I don't know about that...look around on Bring a Trailer, you can get $40,000 for a mint low mile late 90s LS400...
01-17-2023, 01:48 PM
#129
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The prices on used LS are simply crazy these days....I kinda understand why, just red an article about, apparently the LS ( all of them !) are the best used cars money can buy, period, wether they're starting to fall in the "collectors" cars category, that is another issue.....
01-17-2023, 01:52 PM
#130
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When a 25 year old car that used to be worth $3,000 all of a sudden can fetch $40,000 to people who want to squirrel them away, we are getting to where they are collector cars. Someone buying a perfect 1998 LS400 for $40,000 isn't going to drive it.
01-17-2023, 06:19 PM
#131
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Certainly, someone who is buying a 98 LS400 for 40k should get a mental health evaluation before they're allowed to drive it. 
To me the 223 looks fine with the 19s insofar as filling out the wells but that's subjective. I'm not in love with the 19s on offer with the AMG package though so it's have to choose been cush or the mo purty 20 twisted spoke. I like the 21" best, sad you can't get those in a smaller sizing.
This might be a good place to carp a little bit **** the options bundling in the US just in case someone is actually listening...
IMO they need to take the group that came up with the US options bundling and fire them immediately. They need to fire every manager all they way up the line that signed off on them. I'm not talking to weeks notice; I'm talking big goons dragging them out of the building now before they can do any more damage to the company. They need to hit their heads on every door sill and desk, throw them down the stairs, drag them out the to the curb, and then kick them a few times before they get in a truck and run them over. Then back up and run them over again.
Or alternatively; maybe break up the options a little bit into something more like what our Canadian friends have on offer. Those responsible can receive a sharply worded reprimand and transferred to the mail room.
To me the 223 looks fine with the 19s insofar as filling out the wells but that's subjective. I'm not in love with the 19s on offer with the AMG package though so it's have to choose been cush or the mo purty 20 twisted spoke. I like the 21" best, sad you can't get those in a smaller sizing.
This might be a good place to carp a little bit **** the options bundling in the US just in case someone is actually listening...
IMO they need to take the group that came up with the US options bundling and fire them immediately. They need to fire every manager all they way up the line that signed off on them. I'm not talking to weeks notice; I'm talking big goons dragging them out of the building now before they can do any more damage to the company. They need to hit their heads on every door sill and desk, throw them down the stairs, drag them out the to the curb, and then kick them a few times before they get in a truck and run them over. Then back up and run them over again.
Or alternatively; maybe break up the options a little bit into something more like what our Canadian friends have on offer. Those responsible can receive a sharply worded reprimand and transferred to the mail room.
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Streamliner (01-18-2023)
01-17-2023, 06:48 PM
#132
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I'm not in love with the 19s on offer with the AMG package though so it's have to choose been cush or the mo purty 20 twisted spoke
01-18-2023, 08:57 AM
#133
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"IMO they need to take the group that came up with the US options bundling and fire them immediately. They need to fire every manager all they way up the line that signed off on them. I'm not talking to weeks notice; I'm talking big goons dragging them out of the building now before they can do any more damage to the company. They need to hit their heads on every door sill and desk, throw them down the stairs, drag them out the to the curb, and then kick them a few times before they get in a truck and run them over. Then back up and run them over again."
Greed and they "know better" are probably some of the reasons of this !
Greed and they "know better" are probably some of the reasons of this !
01-18-2023, 11:41 AM
#134
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All of the MBUSA “packages” are fine for the vast majority of the “sheep” customers who buy “off the rack” out there. However, when a customer is willing to place a special order, they should be allowed to pick & choose options, just as customers in Germany can. Want your W223 without a Panorama Roof? Don’t check that box. Want Rear Axle Steering? Check that box, etc. If MBUSA wants to assess a “Special Order Fee,” fine, but allow those who wish to order their options “a la carte,” to do so.
The packages as they currently stand, are due to MB trying to be everything to everyone. The luxury experience has all but disappeared, as A,B & C Class vehicles—not to mention Sprinter & Metris vans have diluted what used to be a much more exclusive environment at the MB stores. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Porsche decided to make a true S Class competitor? One can only hope.
The packages as they currently stand, are due to MB trying to be everything to everyone. The luxury experience has all but disappeared, as A,B & C Class vehicles—not to mention Sprinter & Metris vans have diluted what used to be a much more exclusive environment at the MB stores. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Porsche decided to make a true S Class competitor? One can only hope.
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Baloo588 (01-18-2023)
01-18-2023, 02:58 PM
#135
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Thats just not an experience you will find on any car cheaper than a Rolls Royce...
01-18-2023, 04:38 PM
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01-18-2023, 04:52 PM
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Yeah, I ordered my mine exactly they way I wanted although I'd say most don't; it can get painful if you don't exercise some restraint. I think if Porsche set aside the sporting aspect and made a true luxury car in the vein of the S Class; that car would trounce this one.
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Streamliner (01-19-2023)
01-18-2023, 07:06 PM
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By the way, also watch the intro of the video for the context of the youtube comment.
Spoiler
01-18-2023, 09:06 PM
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01-19-2023, 07:11 AM
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Yeah, I ordered my mine exactly they way I wanted although I'd say most don't; it can get painful if you don't exercise some restraint. I think if Porsche set aside the sporting aspect and made a true luxury car in the vein of the S Class; that car would trounce this one.
But also, having the car the way you want it is valuable. I bought both of my Pcars used, but they both had great, necessary options: like sport chrono for example. But having the ability to even choose things like leather sun visors, colored dials, center lock wheels or better paint is awesome.
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Streamliner (01-19-2023)
01-19-2023, 10:53 AM
#142
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lol Yeah, I guess with Porsche you really need to specify; there's loaded, and then there's loaded. My loaded was options that did something; I did not get things like the 5kish sport design packages. My cars already came with the leather interior but I would check that box if I was getting a variant that didn't have it; the base interior is downright plain.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
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Streamliner (01-19-2023)
01-19-2023, 11:21 AM
#143
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lol Yeah, I guess with Porsche you really need to specify; there's loaded, and then there's loaded. My loaded was options that did something; I did not get things like the 5kish sport design packages. My cars already came with the leather interior but I would check that box if I was getting a variant that didn't have it; the base interior is downright plain.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
01-19-2023, 11:30 AM
#144
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lol Yeah, I guess with Porsche you really need to specify; there's loaded, and then there's loaded. My loaded was options that did something; I did not get things like the 5kish sport design packages. My cars already came with the leather interior but I would check that box if I was getting a variant that didn't have it; the base interior is downright plain.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
Regardless the Porsche forums are full of people trying to prioritize their options because they're not going to get everything they want. I'm talking about useful options, things that do something; the leather seat pedestals and that kind of thing are way outside the potential ordering window. There are some reasons for that; the leasing in general is worse over there so at times you're looking at a better outcome buying. You also tend to see most of the options value fall off the car at resale; loaded cars don't move for a great deal more than lightly optioned cars. Not true across the line but it's a thing in the lower end of their lineup and to some extent; the higher price stuff.
Doesn't really matter I suppose; to my knowledge there is no such car in their roadmap so you can put whatever you want in your pipe dream about such a car. I think conceptually, my idea is just that the quality would be higher, everything would work, and you could option it your way assuming you can bear the pain, because it's how they do things. None of the Porsche's I owned had something in them that didn't work as advertised. Quality in a Porsche is a little harder to quantify but one way is just pushing and pulling on stuff in the cabin. In a Porsche you can grab the door handle and try and move it with real force and you wont get any movement. Push on the dash, anywhere you want, and it mostly feels solid. Do that in this car and you have more stuff that bends, squeaks, moves, feels hollow, etc. This one is flashier, more whoa factor when you get in, but the sense of quality as you interact with it all is lower. And of course you would be able to get the rear wheel steering on every variant. You could gett rear seats with cooling, heating, and massage, but without the entertainment system. Want that appearance package, just put a check in the box no matter the variant. Etc.
01-19-2023, 11:39 AM
#145
MBWorld Fanatic!
True, that. The point is a little sharper over there than others I've owned. Could be I'm talking out of turn with that because this is my first old man's car. 
02-07-2023, 08:28 PM
#146
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I actually like the smoothness and power delivery of the S550 more than the W223 S500. The other thing I forgot to mention is the weird hybrid system. There's a noticeable shift/change in braking pressure when going from regenerative braking to mechanical braking. The car would often lurch, which would require more brake pressure, which would then lead to over braking. It's a really weird sensation that takes some time to learn. But I still got surprised a couple times every day even after more than a month of daily driving.
The same holds for acceleration. It's weird when the mild hybrid motor engages and disengages. You definitely feel it. Mostly in city driving when in partial throttle situations; it feels like there's a delay for the car to understand what you're doing. It's not nearly as dialed in as my wife's Toyota Venza. I don't notice either of those things in her car. I imagine if you own one for 3 months or more you get used ot it, but it's a weird sensation, and it's hard to feel confident when you're always afraid you're going to rear end someone. I found myself giving extra space between the car in front because I never mastered the proper braking technique. This problem has been mentioned eleswhere in this forum. And I'm sure MB will provide a firmware solution in the future.
BUT...I only had my W222 for 2 weeks before I got handed the loaner car, for 6+ weeks. After having my car back I must say I prefer my W22 over the W223. The interior of the W223 blows my car away by a thousand miles. But in every other way I like my W222 more. And I think one of the tires on my W222 wasn't balanced or something; the ride seems much nicer now than it did when I bought the car in November. The NVH of the inline 6 in the W223, while not bad, it isn't on par with the V8 in the W222. Probably won't have a chance to drive a S580 for comparison. Another point is how I get stares and compliments everyday when driving my W222. Not once in 6+ weeks did I get a compliment, inquiry, or any type of comment about the W223. Maybe it was because it was in white, but even my wife didn't like the look of the car. My perfect car would be the W222 exterior and the W223 interior.
I'm looking for a 19 or 20 S63 for an upgrade.
Last edited by carlosinseattle; 02-09-2023 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spelling while sleepy
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QuadBenz (02-09-2023)
04-21-2023, 01:48 PM
#147
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This Car Sucks: A W223 Review
Disclaimer #1: Before you rightfully admonish me for buying a vehicle with which I (will) clearly show my discontent, note that this vehicle purchase was for business purposes to join a fleet of luxury sedans and SUVs that we offer to our clients as part of a limousine service. An S-class is pretty much a necessity for any company here in NYC that serves certain clientele, including global CEO’s, dignitaries, etc. It is considered the “premium” sedan option for decades so most companies have at least one in their fleet- us included.
Disclaimer #2: I consider myself very much “tech-savvy.” I am in my early 30’s and enjoy improvements in technology and cool-factor or even gimmicky tech.
Where to Begin?
I guess I could start my rant with the specs on the car:
2021 S580 Luxury Line
040 Black
Sienna Brown Interior with Black Slate Poplar Wood Trim
Warmth and Comfort Package
20-inch Y-Spoke wheels with Hankook Ventus tires (255’s)
*Not missing anything- Have the front multi contour seats + the active ambient lighting (but I would have rather had the credit; will explain below)
I purchased the car from MB Southampton in Long Island, NY. I got a couple of grand off MSRP and competitive financing terms. These guys were all a pleasure to work with and I appreciated their straightforwardness and willingness to get a deal done. I recommend them for anyone who is still determined to still buy this car.
Like most forum members, this was not my first S-class purchase. I’ve owned a W140, W220, both W221’s, and both W222’s. Every generation, the S gets a little better and better. The shift from the W221 to the W222 as many of you would recall was epic. The W222 was fresh, beautiful, and packed with amazing and useful technology. The W223 not so much.
First Impression
The W223 looks longer and slender than the W222. The fact that the fenders are no longer flared gives it an elongated and Maybach-ish look. Otherwise, the good looks top there. There isn’t a single angle looking at the car that I find appealing. The rear looks like a honda. The front nose treatment is ugly. The chrome lines are tacky. I used to only buy sport package/AMG line variants but opted out this time around despite one in inventory because it was not worth the premium. The AMG Line on the W223 makes it look like a blown-up C class. Also, what's up with the 20” wheels on the AMG Line? They literally brought back the 2014-2017 W222 sports package 20” wheels- talk about lazy.
Mercedes must have gotten the memo that the ride on the S-class (probably mostly due to the harsh runflat tires) was not very compliant so these guys apparently got to work overhauling the suspension. However, they overdid it. The car drives like a boat- I feel like I am back in a Town Car Signature L that we used to have in our fleet. I noticed this with BMW with the 2016+ 7-Series too; manufacturers are making the suspensions much softer however the roll and bounce on these cars are much more pronounced. Driving down the highway I feel like I am maneuvering a massive heavy brick on with tons of body roll. You really feel the weight of the car. Yes, acceleration is silky smooth and it's pretty quick and I am sure this will please a lot of buyers, but previous S-classes were comfortable but also agile when driving a bit aggressively.
The seats are fairly comfortable, however, the front seat headrests when missing the pillows are very hard and firm; minimal padding. The Sienna Brown looks ok in some lighting but most times looks very orange- not very luxurious. Someone in a different thread said it best when noting it looks just like a Spalding basketball.
The Good
To be fair, I do want to list the good stuff. First and most noticeably, the car is dead quiet. I mean silent at all speeds. The insulation is fantastic, although I feel that there is a slight gap in the A-pillar since I hear a faint bit of noise.
The fit and finish is pretty good- there are no gaps in the body lines or interior trim.
The base sound system is fantastic.
The high beam assist function is very impressive- works great and the lights open up in a way similar to theater curtains being drawn.
The steering is light and making sharp turns is easy and quick.
The new steering wheel is good-looking; I like the all-around wood and leather steering rim. Very similar to the 2007-2013 Escalades.
The trunk space seems to be a little larger.
And Now, The Bad
The car has a ton of unsorted electric gremlins. Let's list a few:
- The pop-out door handles don’t always pop out; sometimes you have to get back inside the car through an open window and hit “unlock” on the door to make them pop out again. When they do pop out, the movement is not very linear and it seems as if a screw is loose on the mechanism. Also, sort of difficult to operate them when pulling. It has a type of actuator that pushes the door open when you pull on the handle with a bit of pressure however the amount of pressure required to pull varies; sometimes its light and easy sometimes you have to nudge it pretty hard.
- If you roll a rear side blind, it won't come back up unless you crack open and close the adjacent window
- Driver-side headlamp sometimes flickers as if there is a strobe built-in
- Wipers sometimes stop midway and if you turn on the windshield washing "Magic Vision" function it keeps releasing washer fluid while the wiper remains stuck on a 90-degree angle
- Main center screen sometimes freezes or won't turn on at all
- The sunroof opener (touch) is very difficult to operate and I often found myself opening the roof when I just wanted to close the overhead roller blind
- I keep getting an Active Ambient Light Inoperative Error (so just give me the credit instead please)
- The rear headrest raise and lower function from the center screen does not work at all.
- Random, somewhat frequent error messages related to distronic, sensors, etc etc etc. They all go away after a vehicle shutdown and restart.
- Trunk handless kick function to open not working.
The lock and unlock buttons on the door are quite small and you have to hit it just right.
The seat adjuster controls are awkward to use and you have to put considerable pressure on them to make them operate.
No more power headlamp washers.
No more rear vanity mirrors.
Less leather in the cabin and more carpeting (center tunnel).
Cheap plastics used on steering stalks.
If you don’t press the heated or cooled seat button just right, you end up turning both on.
The center screen attracts a lot of dust and fingerprint marks.
The front headrests do not have any side adjustment function like prior S's. Just a flat hard surface.
The pillows both in the front and rear tend to sag. Also, if you cruise with the windows down any unoccupied seat will result in the pillows flopping around from the wind because it only has one strap attaching it to the headrest.
No more front seat bottom compartments (although I recall they did away with these again 2018+).
The driver seat lower side cover clicks every time I get in and feels like it's about to fall off.
The center screen interface is not intuitive and annoying to operate. Hard to find important menus or options to toggle on or off. Good Luck finding the music sound adjustment settings.
You always have to look down to do anything. Can’t even increase fan speed without taking eyes of the road.
Doesn’t this car have gesture control like the BMW 7-Series? If so I cant find it or how to operate it.
The rear seats are not as comfortable as previous gen’s; they are in an awkward seating position especially in the recline setting.
Despite my best efforts, I cannot permanently turn off the traffic light view popup that comes on everytime you are stopped at a red light. I just want to go about my business changing the radio station or whatever and not have to X out of the popup everytime. We get enough popups on our phones and computers. And also, the concept is pretty dumb. Why would I need the cam to come on the center screen when I ermm can just look up at the light? Do MB engineers think we just stay with our heads down the whole time at a traffic light? Even if that were the case, you can't do anything with the screen when that popup is open.
The brake pedal has some sort of modulating function that you have to get used to. Every now and then while driving it will adjust the pressure needed to stop. It never has a consistent feel to it.
When cruising in stop-and-go traffic with Distronic on, I had situations where someone came into my lane right in front of me at a safe distance and the car would go into full about-to-get-into-an-accident mode and brake on it's own very short. This is not only jarring but pretty dangerous with the risk of a car behind you slamming into you.
When parked curbside, the car has some weird function where it won't let you maneuver out more than a few miles per hour. A warning comes on the main screen saying something like "speed severely limited" and you have to X out of it each time if you want to drive normally. I can't find a way to turn this off without totally turning off the brake assist function.
The steering buttons are not intuitive at all. It's actually pretty hard to manage the touch functions if you want to skip a track, raise or lower the volume, etc. God forbid there is a bit of finger grease on it; then it just won't work at all.
The driver dash readout is a small screen with a thick bezel. There are a ton of icons on it which makes reading anything sort of difficult. Also, what happened to the temperature gauge- seems it's gone for good.
Nothing seems properly integrated. There is no real flow to the car.
The ambient lighting is cool for like 2 minutes. Then it reminds me of the triple axle custom escalade stretch limousines we used to operate for proms; RGB lighting everywhere. Cool for kids not so much for grown adults.
If you don't opt for the Exclusive seating option, the dashboard leather is not the same as the seats. It's not nappa and the grain is more pronounced. It doesn't match well with the rest of the vehicle. I suspect most will not get the exclusive because it's not as well packaged as it used to be on the W222 and not much value in it save for the Alcantara headliner, a little more leather on the door panels, leather overhead handles, and the additional wood trim on the front seatbacks.
What is up with the options packing arrangement? So unless I get the Executive Line I can't have rear climate controls and must settle for a strange-looking open rectangular compartment, making the car look cheap? Rear climate controls are pretty much standard on most "luxury" cars but I guess not on a new S-class?
Side gripe: Those "AMG" embossed carpets on the Sportline versions look very distasteful and tacky. Reminds me of what BMW did with the M-package cars; "M" everywhere. At least with the BMW you get an upgraded exhaust and the M package is only a few grand more.
Final Thoughts
Yes, ofcourse this is a nice car but from what it could have been it sucks very much and not worth the price. Is it better than previous gens? No way. Are there any legitimate improvements? I think so in some aspects (lighting, seat comfort, cabin sound level) but not at a lot. I believe Mercedes dropped the ball on this car big time. I think they just assumed that there would be buyers anyhow and that they could half-*** it which is what I sincerely believe they did here. My rant above is just me frustrated with a brand and model that I used to love and dream about since I was a kid. Is the S class on its dying legs? I'm afraid so because this model is a disaster.
All thoughts welcome.
Disclaimer #1: Before you rightfully admonish me for buying a vehicle with which I (will) clearly show my discontent, note that this vehicle purchase was for business purposes to join a fleet of luxury sedans and SUVs that we offer to our clients as part of a limousine service. An S-class is pretty much a necessity for any company here in NYC that serves certain clientele, including global CEO’s, dignitaries, etc. It is considered the “premium” sedan option for decades so most companies have at least one in their fleet- us included.
Disclaimer #2: I consider myself very much “tech-savvy.” I am in my early 30’s and enjoy improvements in technology and cool-factor or even gimmicky tech.
Where to Begin?
I guess I could start my rant with the specs on the car:
2021 S580 Luxury Line
040 Black
Sienna Brown Interior with Black Slate Poplar Wood Trim
Warmth and Comfort Package
20-inch Y-Spoke wheels with Hankook Ventus tires (255’s)
*Not missing anything- Have the front multi contour seats + the active ambient lighting (but I would have rather had the credit; will explain below)
I purchased the car from MB Southampton in Long Island, NY. I got a couple of grand off MSRP and competitive financing terms. These guys were all a pleasure to work with and I appreciated their straightforwardness and willingness to get a deal done. I recommend them for anyone who is still determined to still buy this car.
Like most forum members, this was not my first S-class purchase. I’ve owned a W140, W220, both W221’s, and both W222’s. Every generation, the S gets a little better and better. The shift from the W221 to the W222 as many of you would recall was epic. The W222 was fresh, beautiful, and packed with amazing and useful technology. The W223 not so much.
First Impression
The W223 looks longer and slender than the W222. The fact that the fenders are no longer flared gives it an elongated and Maybach-ish look. Otherwise, the good looks top there. There isn’t a single angle looking at the car that I find appealing. The rear looks like a honda. The front nose treatment is ugly. The chrome lines are tacky. I used to only buy sport package/AMG line variants but opted out this time around despite one in inventory because it was not worth the premium. The AMG Line on the W223 makes it look like a blown-up C class. Also, what's up with the 20” wheels on the AMG Line? They literally brought back the 2014-2017 W222 sports package 20” wheels- talk about lazy.
Mercedes must have gotten the memo that the ride on the S-class (probably mostly due to the harsh runflat tires) was not very compliant so these guys apparently got to work overhauling the suspension. However, they overdid it. The car drives like a boat- I feel like I am back in a Town Car Signature L that we used to have in our fleet. I noticed this with BMW with the 2016+ 7-Series too; manufacturers are making the suspensions much softer however the roll and bounce on these cars are much more pronounced. Driving down the highway I feel like I am maneuvering a massive heavy brick on with tons of body roll. You really feel the weight of the car. Yes, acceleration is silky smooth and it's pretty quick and I am sure this will please a lot of buyers, but previous S-classes were comfortable but also agile when driving a bit aggressively.
The seats are fairly comfortable, however, the front seat headrests when missing the pillows are very hard and firm; minimal padding. The Sienna Brown looks ok in some lighting but most times looks very orange- not very luxurious. Someone in a different thread said it best when noting it looks just like a Spalding basketball.
The Good
To be fair, I do want to list the good stuff. First and most noticeably, the car is dead quiet. I mean silent at all speeds. The insulation is fantastic, although I feel that there is a slight gap in the A-pillar since I hear a faint bit of noise.
The fit and finish is pretty good- there are no gaps in the body lines or interior trim.
The base sound system is fantastic.
The high beam assist function is very impressive- works great and the lights open up in a way similar to theater curtains being drawn.
The steering is light and making sharp turns is easy and quick.
The new steering wheel is good-looking; I like the all-around wood and leather steering rim. Very similar to the 2007-2013 Escalades.
The trunk space seems to be a little larger.
And Now, The Bad
The car has a ton of unsorted electric gremlins. Let's list a few:
- The pop-out door handles don’t always pop out; sometimes you have to get back inside the car through an open window and hit “unlock” on the door to make them pop out again. When they do pop out, the movement is not very linear and it seems as if a screw is loose on the mechanism. Also, sort of difficult to operate them when pulling. It has a type of actuator that pushes the door open when you pull on the handle with a bit of pressure however the amount of pressure required to pull varies; sometimes its light and easy sometimes you have to nudge it pretty hard.
- If you roll a rear side blind, it won't come back up unless you crack open and close the adjacent window
- Driver-side headlamp sometimes flickers as if there is a strobe built-in
- Wipers sometimes stop midway and if you turn on the windshield washing "Magic Vision" function it keeps releasing washer fluid while the wiper remains stuck on a 90-degree angle
- Main center screen sometimes freezes or won't turn on at all
- The sunroof opener (touch) is very difficult to operate and I often found myself opening the roof when I just wanted to close the overhead roller blind
- I keep getting an Active Ambient Light Inoperative Error (so just give me the credit instead please)
- The rear headrest raise and lower function from the center screen does not work at all.
- Random, somewhat frequent error messages related to distronic, sensors, etc etc etc. They all go away after a vehicle shutdown and restart.
- Trunk handless kick function to open not working.
The lock and unlock buttons on the door are quite small and you have to hit it just right.
The seat adjuster controls are awkward to use and you have to put considerable pressure on them to make them operate.
No more power headlamp washers.
No more rear vanity mirrors.
Less leather in the cabin and more carpeting (center tunnel).
Cheap plastics used on steering stalks.
If you don’t press the heated or cooled seat button just right, you end up turning both on.
The center screen attracts a lot of dust and fingerprint marks.
The front headrests do not have any side adjustment function like prior S's. Just a flat hard surface.
The pillows both in the front and rear tend to sag. Also, if you cruise with the windows down any unoccupied seat will result in the pillows flopping around from the wind because it only has one strap attaching it to the headrest.
No more front seat bottom compartments (although I recall they did away with these again 2018+).
The driver seat lower side cover clicks every time I get in and feels like it's about to fall off.
The center screen interface is not intuitive and annoying to operate. Hard to find important menus or options to toggle on or off. Good Luck finding the music sound adjustment settings.
You always have to look down to do anything. Can’t even increase fan speed without taking eyes of the road.
Doesn’t this car have gesture control like the BMW 7-Series? If so I cant find it or how to operate it.
The rear seats are not as comfortable as previous gen’s; they are in an awkward seating position especially in the recline setting.
Despite my best efforts, I cannot permanently turn off the traffic light view popup that comes on everytime you are stopped at a red light. I just want to go about my business changing the radio station or whatever and not have to X out of the popup everytime. We get enough popups on our phones and computers. And also, the concept is pretty dumb. Why would I need the cam to come on the center screen when I ermm can just look up at the light? Do MB engineers think we just stay with our heads down the whole time at a traffic light? Even if that were the case, you can't do anything with the screen when that popup is open.
The brake pedal has some sort of modulating function that you have to get used to. Every now and then while driving it will adjust the pressure needed to stop. It never has a consistent feel to it.
When cruising in stop-and-go traffic with Distronic on, I had situations where someone came into my lane right in front of me at a safe distance and the car would go into full about-to-get-into-an-accident mode and brake on it's own very short. This is not only jarring but pretty dangerous with the risk of a car behind you slamming into you.
When parked curbside, the car has some weird function where it won't let you maneuver out more than a few miles per hour. A warning comes on the main screen saying something like "speed severely limited" and you have to X out of it each time if you want to drive normally. I can't find a way to turn this off without totally turning off the brake assist function.
The steering buttons are not intuitive at all. It's actually pretty hard to manage the touch functions if you want to skip a track, raise or lower the volume, etc. God forbid there is a bit of finger grease on it; then it just won't work at all.
The driver dash readout is a small screen with a thick bezel. There are a ton of icons on it which makes reading anything sort of difficult. Also, what happened to the temperature gauge- seems it's gone for good.
Nothing seems properly integrated. There is no real flow to the car.
The ambient lighting is cool for like 2 minutes. Then it reminds me of the triple axle custom escalade stretch limousines we used to operate for proms; RGB lighting everywhere. Cool for kids not so much for grown adults.
If you don't opt for the Exclusive seating option, the dashboard leather is not the same as the seats. It's not nappa and the grain is more pronounced. It doesn't match well with the rest of the vehicle. I suspect most will not get the exclusive because it's not as well packaged as it used to be on the W222 and not much value in it save for the Alcantara headliner, a little more leather on the door panels, leather overhead handles, and the additional wood trim on the front seatbacks.
What is up with the options packing arrangement? So unless I get the Executive Line I can't have rear climate controls and must settle for a strange-looking open rectangular compartment, making the car look cheap? Rear climate controls are pretty much standard on most "luxury" cars but I guess not on a new S-class?
Side gripe: Those "AMG" embossed carpets on the Sportline versions look very distasteful and tacky. Reminds me of what BMW did with the M-package cars; "M" everywhere. At least with the BMW you get an upgraded exhaust and the M package is only a few grand more.
Final Thoughts
Yes, ofcourse this is a nice car but from what it could have been it sucks very much and not worth the price. Is it better than previous gens? No way. Are there any legitimate improvements? I think so in some aspects (lighting, seat comfort, cabin sound level) but not at a lot. I believe Mercedes dropped the ball on this car big time. I think they just assumed that there would be buyers anyhow and that they could half-*** it which is what I sincerely believe they did here. My rant above is just me frustrated with a brand and model that I used to love and dream about since I was a kid. Is the S class on its dying legs? I'm afraid so because this model is a disaster.
All thoughts welcome.
My 2022 S500 is optioned out to the max. It's nice but not worth the $136k MSRP. I really miss my 2019 S560e and often regret trading it in for the newer car. This current car is my 4th S-class, so I'm very familiar with the car and what the S-class can be when it's done right.I don't understand how this current S-class is considered the best luxury car in production, I disagree.
No mechanical problems, so all my gripes are about the design and function, bot the reliability. However, with the 21" wheels, I have blown out 4 tires and 1 wheel from pot holes in Los Angeles. The dealership (MB of BH) is great, but the car isn't. I don't know if I'll be keeping keep this car very long.
The following 2 users liked this post by RyanCartr:
Greg B. (04-24-2023),
Streamliner (04-24-2023)
04-24-2023, 10:06 AM
#148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Corona Del Mar, CA
Posts: 7,467
Received 3,763 Likes
on
2,150 Posts
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I agree that this version is not as good as the previous generation. I traded my 2019 S560e for a 2022 S500 4MATIC . Many of your gripes are LEGIT ... too complicated to use the center screen, too many touch sensitive buttons, the power seat button suck ad VERY hard to push, memory/heated/cooled seat buttons are finicky and awful. the red light pop up screen is annoying and useless and can't be disabled, you MUST take your eyes off the road for ALL functions because of the touch screen and no tactile buttons, no rear seat vanity mirrors (minor gripe, but legit), I have rear axle steering and the AMG package, so fat rear tires hardly turn (total waste of an expensive option), i hate the new steerig wheel with touch sensitive buttons that don't seem to work that well, gestures activate lights and sunroof randomly - which it totally irritating. The overall styling is boring and lacks presence - MB designers watered it down to an unrecognizable bland blob of a car. The trunk kick to open function only sometimes works, same with the pop-out door handles, which pop out in a janky/cheap way. seems like a lot of gimmicky tech for tech's sake, not because it improves the car. This car is a step backwards for MB.
My 2022 S500 is optioned out to the max. It's nice but not worth the $136k MSRP. I really miss my 2019 S560e and often regret trading it in for the newer car. This current car is my 4th S-class, so I'm very familiar with the car and what the S-class can be when it's done right.I don't understand how this current S-class is considered the best luxury car in production, I disagree.
No mechanical problems, so all my gripes are about the design and function, bot the reliability. However, with the 21" wheels, I have blown out 4 tires and 1 wheel from pot holes in Los Angeles. The dealership (MB of BH) is great, but the car isn't. I don't know if I'll be keeping keep this car very long.
My 2022 S500 is optioned out to the max. It's nice but not worth the $136k MSRP. I really miss my 2019 S560e and often regret trading it in for the newer car. This current car is my 4th S-class, so I'm very familiar with the car and what the S-class can be when it's done right.I don't understand how this current S-class is considered the best luxury car in production, I disagree.
No mechanical problems, so all my gripes are about the design and function, bot the reliability. However, with the 21" wheels, I have blown out 4 tires and 1 wheel from pot holes in Los Angeles. The dealership (MB of BH) is great, but the car isn't. I don't know if I'll be keeping keep this car very long.
04-24-2023, 11:37 AM
#149
I agree that this version is not as good as the previous generation. I traded my 2019 S560e for a 2022 S500 4MATIC . Many of your gripes are LEGIT ... too complicated to use the center screen, too many touch sensitive buttons, the power seat button suck ad VERY hard to push, memory/heated/cooled seat buttons are finicky and awful. the red light pop up screen is annoying and useless and can't be disabled, you MUST take your eyes off the road for ALL functions because of the touch screen and no tactile buttons, no rear seat vanity mirrors (minor gripe, but legit), I have rear axle steering and the AMG package, so fat rear tires hardly turn (total waste of an expensive option), i hate the new steerig wheel with touch sensitive buttons that don't seem to work that well, gestures activate lights and sunroof randomly - which it totally irritating. The overall styling is boring and lacks presence - MB designers watered it down to an unrecognizable bland blob of a car. The trunk kick to open function only sometimes works, same with the pop-out door handles, which pop out in a janky/cheap way. seems like a lot of gimmicky tech for tech's sake, not because it improves the car. This car is a step backwards for MB.
My 2022 S500 is optioned out to the max. It's nice but not worth the $136k MSRP. I really miss my 2019 S560e and often regret trading it in for the newer car. This current car is my 4th S-class, so I'm very familiar with the car and what the S-class can be when it's done right.I don't understand how this current S-class is considered the best luxury car in production, I disagree.
No mechanical problems, so all my gripes are about the design and function, bot the reliability. However, with the 21" wheels, I have blown out 4 tires and 1 wheel from pot holes in Los Angeles. The dealership (MB of BH) is great, but the car isn't. I don't know if I'll be keeping keep this car very long.
My 2022 S500 is optioned out to the max. It's nice but not worth the $136k MSRP. I really miss my 2019 S560e and often regret trading it in for the newer car. This current car is my 4th S-class, so I'm very familiar with the car and what the S-class can be when it's done right.I don't understand how this current S-class is considered the best luxury car in production, I disagree.
No mechanical problems, so all my gripes are about the design and function, bot the reliability. However, with the 21" wheels, I have blown out 4 tires and 1 wheel from pot holes in Los Angeles. The dealership (MB of BH) is great, but the car isn't. I don't know if I'll be keeping keep this car very long.
I change my cars often and will probably trade in the S class in the next 12 -24 months. What are you thinking of replacing your S with?
I’ve narrowed it down to another S class, the Flying Spur or the new Porsche Cayenne Turbo (if the suspension has softened and isn’t as choppy as the current one). Can’t stand the looks of the new 7, Genesis has no dealer network and the A8 is aesthetically dull.
04-24-2023, 11:48 AM
#150
Newbie
No, EABC is the one big option my car does not have. Like rear-axle steering, I'm not sure how useful the option really is, esp IRL driving, beyond it being a cool idea. When rear axle steering is paired with fat AMG wheels (like with my car), the paltry 4.5 degree turn makes the option little more than a novelty. I imagine EABC is similar, but I don't actually know. I'm open to being educated if reality differs.
Last edited by RyanCartr; 04-24-2023 at 12:10 PM.
