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I get something with that leather, it appears to substantially increase the quality level. That is not subjective either, it's something almost anyone would say. The stock stereo is good but the 4D is hugely mo better. Not worth it's price but I get something. I didn't pay for the lines, Mrs Crab does not like fake whenever it can be avoided and it gives nothing.
Every box I checked gave me something. AMG line gives me nothing and takes the 10 degree steering. Heeeelllll no! That AMG logo on the formats? An insult unless there is a minimum of 100 extra hp going along with it. That's something.
The AMG line gives YOU nothing, but to me it makes the car great looking when to me the car is not that good looking without it. Personally, I don't feel the need to have the extended leather option and there is no way I would pay $3,500 for dash trim. To me there is no amount the audio could be better to justify $6,500. Its not the AMG logo, its the much more attractive front, rear and side lower valences.
Its all subjective, that's why there are options. An option that has no value to you will have value to other people, and vice versa. Like I said I personally would only consider S Classes with the AMG package, without it I think there are better looking cars in the segment.
You might be surprised that I agree with you, but I do. It's a finer point with me: I don't disagree with having options, I disagree that the option in question costs anything at all. Same with every manufacturer for me; I never buy the sport appearance package with Porsche either. The only way I would consider it was if it was free. I don't pay for something that costs nothing and adds nothing. The corporate boy wonders will have to fund their champagne with someone else's money. Believe it or not, it hasn't always been the way it is now; there was a time in living memory when manufacturers were expected to provide value for money.
I will however say that I do indeed like my panoramic roofs.
You might be surprised that I agree with you, but I do. It's a finer point with me: I don't disagree with having options, I disagree that the option in question costs anything at all. Same with every manufacturer for me; I never buy the sport appearance package with Porsche either. The only way I would consider it was if it was free. I don't pay for something that costs nothing and adds nothing. The corporate boy wonders will have to fund their champagne with someone else's money. Believe it or not, it hasn't always been the way it is now; there was a time in living memory when manufacturers were expected to provide value for money.
I will however say that I do indeed like my panoramic roofs.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. The AMG styling package provides value to me, and clearly to many others. I am happy to pay the $4,500 to make the car attractive to me, otherwise I would be driving a car that I don't like the styling of and that doesnt make any sense. Do you only buy the base wheels since upgraded wheels are just cosmetic? The right set of wheels has a huge impact on how a car looks. What about paint? If there is a paint color you really like do you refuse to pay extra?
"Not paying for something that costs nothing and adds nothing" when one is buying a $130,000 S Class to me is absurd lol. And a Porsche? They charge for EVERYTHING. You are indeed paying for many, many things that cost nothing and add nothing. And having two styling packages on the assembly line absolutely does cost something. It adds complexity to the design process and the production process and adding complexity adds cost.
If all you care about is value, this is the wrong car.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
The whole “AMG Thing” is very distasteful to me. When it was strictly applied to a handful of very high performance models, that was fine. The cars were exclusive and a bit extreme. When you saw the AMG moniker, it meant that you were looking at something special, with the ponies under the hood to boot. These days, you see AMG on virtually every MB model, signifying nothing more than someone paid big bucks for something that didn’t cost more to produce.. The AMG brand has been so watered down that it is absolutely meaningless and laughable, at least to me. That said, if someone likes it and feels a need to pay for it, to each their own.
On something like an S Class, I want the look to be stately, elegant, luxurious and refined. I don’t want a hint of aggressiveness, nor do I want to dress it up in meaningless ground effects body panels, that suggest that the car is frequently driven at Autobahn speeds. Again, if others like the AMG look, that’s their business. When I want sportiness, I jump in my SL. Cheers!
On something like an S Class, I want the look to be stately, elegant, luxurious and refined. I don’t want a hint of aggressiveness, nor do I want to dress it up in meaningless ground effects body panels, that suggest that the car is frequently driven at Autobahn speeds. Again, if others like the AMG look, that’s their business. When I want sportiness, I jump in my SL. Cheers!
Thats why there are options. This idea that the AMG styling package is "wrong" is whats absurd. To me its not about it looking "sportier", I just think it looks better. I appreciate that Mercedes lets me buy the exterior appearance package without also forcing me to deal with a firmer suspension, austere "sport" trim inside and different exhaust etc. Lexus if I wanted the F Sport look (which I did) I was limited to the SWB car, sport suspension and interior with crazy seats and no wood, and an intake sound generator. With BMW the M Sport appearance package comes with a louder exhaust. I like that I can have my S Class the soft riding version with the luxury interior and the better looking outside trim.
And, personally I think the AMG package makes the car look more "stately, elegant, luxurious and refined".
Value is in the eye of the beholder... snip..."Not paying for something that costs nothing and adds nothing" when one is buying a $130,000 S Class to me is absurd lol. And a Porsche? They charge for EVERYTHING. You are indeed paying for many, many things that cost nothing and add nothing. And having two styling packages on the assembly line absolutely does cost something. It adds complexity to the design process and the production process and adding complexity adds cost.
If all you care about is value, this is the wrong car.
You started off ok but you blew it when you edited. So yeah, actually, no. The cost of the AMG package elements are likely the same as the non AMG elements, wheels, panels, all of it. These things are developed as a whole and that development cost is spread across the entire line equally. The sourcing, line work, tooling, and so on, all at a cost spread across all units. The parts themselves are usually made at a cost per unit; that cost being the same across all like parts. In other words, MB tells suppliers how many parts to make of each kind and those parts all have the same unit cost. As an example, they'll ask a supplier to send them a certain number of "performance calipers" and a certain number of base calipers; the cost per unit on those calipers will typically be exactly the same. No, not kidding, it's standard in this industry and in many others. You're probably thinking no, there is more material, more this, more that, in part X but that doesn't change the equation because the parts are bid as a spread at a per unit cost. The parts they make in house also follow the same general rule, they were developed as a whole at one cost and are generally made at the same cost for both the base part, and the more expensive to consumers, optional part. In house things are a little different became they'll often position profit/expenses to meet various goals but the cost per unit doesn't itself change, what changes is just what they've decided to say it costs depending on corporate goals at the time.
To go back to the start while it's a standard practice this isn't true of every option/cost but does cover the majority of them. So yes, some parts are of course more expensive and that cost is passed on. If you want to know more about it I'd consider looking into it; I think you may find it interesting reading. As I've already said I agree that options are good; I think that's covered. I also started out saying what my buying position was, not what your buying position should be. You are free to buy whatever you want with your money and I've no grief with it, that's the way it should work. I suspect you're actually buying a brand rather than a thing; so if the stock look was the AMG look you would want that look instead saying what is currently the AMG look is no good. Some people are susceptible to that and if it's the case, not going to hold it against you.
I suspect you're actually buying a brand rather than a thing; so if the stock look was the AMG look you would want that look instead saying what is currently the AMG look is no good. Some people are susceptible to that and if it's the case, not going to hold it against you.
It has absolutely nothing to do with "AMG" as a brand. I dont care what its called, i just like how it looks better. If the stock look was a look I liked, I would get that look. For instance when I was considering a BMW 750 before I chose my S560, on that car I prefer the standard look over the M Sport look, so thats what I would have taken. In general with BMWs I prefer the standard look to the M Sport look. With Mercedes vehicles I almost always prefer the AMG package look, because I think their cars look too soft and bulbous without it. I feel that way about pretty much all of them.
My issue is not with your preference, its this idea that somehow the AMG package existing makes you and Streamliner angry, and I just don't understand that. Add in the fact that you're now accusing me of being a vapid brand buyer because I like something you don't, thats completely ridiculous. When choosing what I want in a car thats $130,000, I just don't care to think so deeply into cost vs value vs whatever, I just choose the options I want, and for me no AMG package on a Mercedes is a deal breaker, simply because I like the look of them with the package better.
It has absolutely nothing to do with "AMG" as a brand. I dont care what its called, i just like how it looks better. If the stock look was a look I liked, I would get that look. For instance when I was considering a BMW 750 before I chose my S560, on that car I prefer the standard look over the M Sport look, so thats what I would have taken. In general with BMWs I prefer the standard look to the M Sport look. With Mercedes vehicles I almost always prefer the AMG package look, because I think their cars look too soft and bulbous without it. I feel that way about pretty much all of them.
My issue is not with your preference, its this idea that somehow the AMG package existing makes you and Streamliner angry, and I just don't understand that. Add in the fact that you're now accusing me of being a vapid brand buyer because I like something you don't, thats completely ridiculous. When choosing what I want in a car thats $130,000, I just don't care to think so deeply into cost vs value vs whatever, I just choose the options I want, and for me no AMG package on a Mercedes is a deal breaker, simply because I like the look of them with the package better.
Don't read into it, if I have a point to make, I'll make exactly that point. The reason you don't understand our dislike is you're not old enough to have lived in a time when more value was expected. It would take far too much typing to explain it all and it's not relevant to this thread or even this forum. No, I don't think you wouldn't understand, you would, I just don't like spending a lot of time typing posts on forums. It's enough for you to know that your concept of the AMG package adding value is tied to your age and what corporate dogma has taught you during your time on this earth. It's the same for me (yes, including the corporate dogma part) except my expectation is fixed in an earlier time when value equated to getting something more than you do now. The car as it sits today is objectively a poorer performer with the AMG package, not better. Giving up the 10 degree is a bridge too far; they've plastered a name associated with more performance but reduced the cars capability; that doesn't work for me. I'm well aware of the value equation involved in selecting any of these options; it's not good. I'm also aware that I could drive anything that moves and still get where I'm going without paying for all the whiz bang and fancy leather. However, I like whiz bang and fancy leather so I pay for it. Just like I like performance so I pay for it with Porsche. As I said I don't buy the sport appearance package over there either. Adds nothing, cost money. That's all I need to know, although I would add that at least Porsche's overpriced sport appearance packages don't reduce the car's performance. Or at least I haven't encountered that yet.
To you personally: You say you're not a brand hoar as I suspected you might be, I accept that at face value and withdrawal the suggestion. A lot of people are highly susceptible to brand manipulation so it's always out there when considering peoples motives and preferences regarding various products. Mrs Crab, as I've said, is an economist. She is the smartest person in the room in pretty much every room she's ever walked into in her life. I'm not entirely kidding when I say I think I'm something like a monkey to her and she's keeping me as a pet. However that might be, what she would say here is that value and cost are relative, not absolutes. For you the value of the AMG package in regard to the appearance is enough to warrant the spend. I get that. Makes sense. I was never talking about you personally, or anyone else. I was talking about myself, for me, ME, the answer is hell no; I dislike that they would even offer something that gimps my car. If you're feeling the love, great, buy all you want. It's your money, I didn't get younger while typing this so I'm still old; us pathetic old people don't feel like we have to agree, I accept your opinion on that AMG package, I just don't share it. Doesn't make either of us good, bad, right, or wrong.
8636494[/url]]It's enough for you to know that your concept of the AMG package adding value is tied to your age and what corporate dogma has taught you during your time on this earth.
That is again, absurd and extremely insulting. I see and know plenty of people in their 60s, 70s, 80s that drive S Classes and other Mercedes with the AMG appearance package. You're again trying to show that somehow you are "more mature" than me because I like a styling package that you don't like. Get over yourself.
This is a car that is objectively a pretty poor value, so spare me the self aggrandizing description of your more mature sense of value and how smart your wife is lol.
Doesn't make either of us good, bad, right, or wrong.
Said while telling me my opinion is because I'm younger than you and obsessed with brand. Right lol. I like something you don't like, actually own what you're saying and just let it be that without making personal assumptions about me.
The car as it sits today is objectively a poorer performer with the AMG package, not better. Giving up the 10 degree is a bridge too far;
The 10 degree steering is an option, its not a standard feature that is deleted when you select the AMG styling package. Its not an option I personally would choose, in fact I get around just fine with no 4 wheel steering. So...if you want the 10 degree steering simply don't select the styling package. No big deal.
However, I like whiz bang and fancy leather so I pay for it.
And I like the more aggressive look of the AMG styling package so I pay for that. Why does that mean that I'm "young and don't understand value" or "a brand *****"? What do your choices say about you? Why do our choices have to say anything about either of us?
You seem hung up on the use of the term AMG and you seem to think those of us who bought this option did so because of the term AMG and I think in reality that isnt the case.
I already said I agree with you about options, don't care what you buy, and have no grief with it. Multiple times. Not any of those times was I lying and I'm out of different ways to write the same thing. Believe what you want, the last word is yours.
8636552[/url]]Hey, whos angry? Im certainly not. I couldnt care less how folks spend their money. I may not agree with them, but Im certainly not angry.
At the end of the day folks the new S class is beautiful. I love how it reminiscence the older W126 S class with its long sleek look. I prefer the AMG look wholeheartedly as it gives the front end a more appealing look along with the side valence etc. I mean a few thousand here and there to get what we want pales compared to the entire price of the car so as long as each one of us is happy. The 21s on these cars look great but the car is just too heavy for it and it rides and drives much better on the 20s overall. The 20s I got have a great look and the tires are beefier. I rather stick with the low profile and bigger rims like the 22s on my RS7.
Got the Michelins properly road force balanced by a good tech whom remounted the tires to the rims and got better balance. The car rides very nice now. Much quieter and smoother than the 21s. I am very happy overall.
Yes, same issue, Had my car for less than a month and have damaged and replaced all four tires. I have MB Road Hazard Protection but am ordering a front and rear wheel and tire to have in (my) stock, as I have waited as long as 10 days to get a tire from dealer who does not stock any(apparently). Its a shame, I am afraid to let anyone else drive it for fear they won't be watching the road. In the end, will be costly for MBZ ,this bad move on tire size when they add up all the claims. I am sorry for people who didn't get the tire and wheel package. And if anyone is wondering, no I was not speeding or driving reckless. MB should have realized other countries do not have the glass-smooth highways that they do. I am having buyer's remorse over this.
Join the club of the many S580 owners with multiple failures of 21” wheels and tires (almost all Pirelli). Obviously not enough, however, to force MBZ to take any action to get these 21” off our cars. My efforts with the NHTSB went nowhere after my contacting them. I hope it doesn’t take a serious injury or death from one of these failures to make MBZ take action.
The 21 inch wheels are an option you bought, tire failures are not the fault of MB, they are just what happens when you have wheels that large and tires that low profile. Guys who buy aftermarket wheels have been dealing with this forever, they don't blame the company who made their wheels.
For the record…..my S580 is a 2021 and when they were very few available “‘at the port” to buy. In my eagerness to get rid of my Tesla S and get the 580 in the color I wanted, I accepted one with the 21” wheels Pirelli PZero tires. (didnt see the Pirellis until the car was delivered) Having been in the tire business for 31 years and my experience with Pirellis, I should have not accepted the car with those tires, especially mounted on 21” wheels. But I was over eager to get the new car and didn’t want to wait many more weeks, so I took delivery. And have had 3 blowouts since. My bad!
However, the fact remains that there have been dozens, maybe hundreds, more of these same 21” super low profile failures on S580s and MBZ should recognize this. After all, their people determined this setup to be sufficient for our heavy cars and selected which tire brands to come as OE. BTW, almost all failures have been with Pirellis, and not Michelins, which have stronger sidewalls.
Over in Panamera land the guys were popping the 21s with Michelin tires although not nearly so often. That car is a little lighter but more stiffly sprung; don't know you score that but I do think that it's going to be hard to get a heavy car wearing tires with this low a profile to be problem free. I agree on the Michelin being a better tire, top drawer, I just think the tire isn't going to be able to overcome the need to be very careful while driving with what amounts to a fashion choice that overcame fitness and function.
I also wanted to point out that the new s63 AMG has 21 inch rims but the tires are thicker
255/40r21 front and 285/35r21 rears compared to 255/35r21 and 285/30r21 on the regular s. Not sure why Mercedes did that and went with the thinner tires on the regular s but given this, you can upsize the tires without any rubbing..
I also wanted to point out that the new s63 AMG has 21 inch rims but the tires are thicker
255/40r21 front and 285/35r21 rears compared to 255/35r21 and 285/30r21 on the regular s. Not sure why Mercedes did that and went with the thinner tires on the regular s but given this, you can upsize the tires without any rubbing..
Possibly for ride comfort since I'm sure the AMG variant has stiffer suspension.
For those of you with blown 21s, you could always try a higher profile tire since the 63 can fit them.
For the record ..my S580 is a 2021 and when they were very few available at the port to buy. In my eagerness to get rid of my Tesla S and get the 580 in the color I wanted, I accepted one with the 21 wheels Pirelli PZero tires. (didnt see the Pirellis until the car was delivered) Having been in the tire business for 31 years and my experience with Pirellis, I should have not accepted the car with those tires, especially mounted on 21 wheels. But I was over eager to get the new car and didnt want to wait many more weeks, so I took delivery. And have had 3 blowouts since. My bad!
However, the fact remains that there have been dozens, maybe hundreds, more of these same 21 super low profile failures on S580s and MBZ should recognize this. After all, their people determined this setup to be sufficient for our heavy cars and selected which tire brands to come as OE. BTW, almost all failures have been with Pirellis, and not Michelins, which have stronger sidewalls.
I get it, but the car was equipped with those tires. Thats not a problem unique to Mercedes, its ALL cars with low profile tires. It just comes with the territory.
If you sell your 21s and pick up a set of 20s or 19s I bet you would be surprised how little out of pocket that swap would cost. You're just never going to get Mercedes to cover that.
09-16-2022, 05:09 PM
