Least satisfying cars...
03-06-2023, 09:06 PM
#126
03-06-2023, 10:03 PM
#127
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I was in looking at cars and one of the salesmen tried to point me at an A45 when he found out I was looking for something AMGish. I wasn't interested but he talked me into going for a test drive (wasn't that hard, I'm a sucker for test drives) and off we went. That thing was a hoot. Some odd decisions there and the hard plastics and all that don't impress, but... A hoot to flog. Like a little go-cart.
03-06-2023, 11:28 PM
#128
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I was in looking at cars and one of the salesmen tried to point me at an A45 when he found out I was looking for something AMGish. I wasn't interested but he talked me into going for a test drive (wasn't that hard, I'm a sucker for test drives) and off we went. That thing was a hoot. Some odd decisions there and the hard plastics and all that don't impress, but... A hoot to flog. Like a little go-cart.
03-07-2023, 05:20 PM
#129
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Just an update, they STILL have my car lol. Glad I ditched the A Class...
03-07-2023, 08:36 PM
#130
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Is it only me or some of us prefer smaller cars, I mean the C-Class grew larger than the E-Class of the previous generation and will continue to grow each generation. Wouldn't it be nice to have the luxury of an E-Class in the body of a C-Class? A-Class with that much horsepower is more than adequate, it is nimble but like you said let down by the choice of materials, it is an A-Class after all, now imagine it has the E-Class interior (not just design but material choices) with that size, you might appreciate it more.
03-07-2023, 08:40 PM
#131
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I came to realize this when I traded my SWB LS460 in for a LWB LS460L, same car but the LWB car felt so much more satisfying...it gives the car an elegance over the road that only length and weight gives you.
03-07-2023, 09:39 PM
#132
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Such a thing really isn't possible. A big part of what makes a car like the S Class feel the way it feels is the long wheelbase, even with air suspension it really can't be recreated in a small car.
I came to realize this when I traded my SWB LS460 in for a LWB LS460L, same car but the LWB car felt so much more satisfying...it gives the car an elegance over the road that only length and weight gives you.
I came to realize this when I traded my SWB LS460 in for a LWB LS460L, same car but the LWB car felt so much more satisfying...it gives the car an elegance over the road that only length and weight gives you.
However, regarding S-Class, I have different experience. The last generation of S-Class that I have extensively driven both SWB and LWB is the W126, where I found little to no difference. The SEL (a 380SEL), of course, had the additional 140mm (roughly 6'' to those not familiar with the SI units) legroom. But the SE (a 380SE) felt a little bit more precise and easier to maneuver (there was no rear axle steering back then). Since then, I have only driven LWB S-Class.
I remember a Canadian member @martinlarose here drives a SWB 223. He should chime in. I just do not see a big difference between W223 vs V223.
However, having said this, putting all S-Class good stuff into a W206 C-Class will be a totally difference story from comparing W223 vs V223 though. Here, I do reckon that the S-Class experience cannot be nearly replicated.
Interesting fact:-
LWB C-Class (V206) has 3.3'' longer wheelbase than W206.
LWB E-Class (V213) has 5.5'' longer wheelbase than W213.
LWB GLC-Class (GLC-L) has 4'' longer wheelbase than the regular X253.
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MBNUT1 (03-08-2023)
03-07-2023, 09:43 PM
#133
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Wheelbase absolutely has an impact on how a car rides and drives, obviously the difference is not night and day, its a subtle difference but its there a LWB car vs a SWB car. The point though was, which you agreed with, you can't make a small car like a C Class feel like an S Class, that difference in size cannot be compensated for.
03-07-2023, 10:27 PM
#134
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Is it only me or some of us prefer smaller cars, I mean the C-Class grew larger than the E-Class of the previous generation and will continue to grow each generation. Wouldn't it be nice to have the luxury of an E-Class in the body of a C-Class? A-Class with that much horsepower is more than adequate, it is nimble but like you said let down by the choice of materials, it is an A-Class after all, now imagine it has the E-Class interior (not just design but material choices) with that size, you might appreciate it more.
The way I wished it worked is that cars of different sizes came in all flavors of luxury. With MB (as an example) you'd have a 300C, 300E, 300S, 500C, 500E, 500S, like that. The size remains the same, what changes is the level of equipment, tech, and materials. I find a smaller car very useful in town and I used to keep a town car for that purpose but it's never been the car I want it to be; that car would be smaller than the S Class but with all the luxuries of an S Class. It doesn't matter that the sizing would affect the way it rides because the purpose isn't to recreate the S Class in a smaller car, it's to get the advantages of smaller cars with the goodies you want.
I'm thinking about getting the electric Macan for beater duty when that comes out; partly because I feel like sampling an EV but mostly because Porsche lets you tart up the Macan to half decent levels.
03-08-2023, 04:28 AM
#135
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That is so for the SWB LS460 vs LWB LS460L.
However, regarding S-Class, I have different experience. The last generation of S-Class that I have extensively driven both SWB and LWB is the W126, where I found little to no difference. The SEL (a 380SEL), of course, had the additional 140mm (roughly 6'' to those not familiar with the SI units) legroom. But the SE (a 380SE) felt a little bit more precise and easier to maneuver (there was no rear axle steering back then). Since then, I have only driven LWB S-Class.
I remember a Canadian member @martinlarose here drives a SWB 223. He should chime in. I just do not see a big difference between W223 vs V223.
However, having said this, putting all S-Class good stuff into a W206 C-Class will be a totally difference story from comparing W223 vs V223 though. Here, I do reckon that the S-Class experience cannot be nearly replicated.
Interesting fact:-
LWB C-Class (V206) has 3.3'' longer wheelbase than W206.
LWB E-Class (V213) has 5.5'' longer wheelbase than W213.
LWB GLC-Class (GLC-L) has 4'' longer wheelbase than the regular X253.
However, regarding S-Class, I have different experience. The last generation of S-Class that I have extensively driven both SWB and LWB is the W126, where I found little to no difference. The SEL (a 380SEL), of course, had the additional 140mm (roughly 6'' to those not familiar with the SI units) legroom. But the SE (a 380SE) felt a little bit more precise and easier to maneuver (there was no rear axle steering back then). Since then, I have only driven LWB S-Class.
I remember a Canadian member @martinlarose here drives a SWB 223. He should chime in. I just do not see a big difference between W223 vs V223.
However, having said this, putting all S-Class good stuff into a W206 C-Class will be a totally difference story from comparing W223 vs V223 though. Here, I do reckon that the S-Class experience cannot be nearly replicated.
Interesting fact:-
LWB C-Class (V206) has 3.3'' longer wheelbase than W206.
LWB E-Class (V213) has 5.5'' longer wheelbase than W213.
LWB GLC-Class (GLC-L) has 4'' longer wheelbase than the regular X253.
03-08-2023, 05:29 AM
#136
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Is it only me or some of us prefer smaller cars, I mean the C-Class grew larger than the E-Class of the previous generation and will continue to grow each generation. Wouldn't it be nice to have the luxury of an E-Class in the body of a C-Class? A-Class with that much horsepower is more than adequate, it is nimble but like you said let down by the choice of materials, it is an A-Class after all, now imagine it has the E-Class interior (not just design but material choices) with that size, you might appreciate it more.
The current C-Class (W206) has most dimensions larger than an E-Class W124 of the early 90's! So, this growth did not happen in recent years.
And guess what? The current E-Class (W213) has dimensions larger than a S-Class W126 (SWB) of the 80's.
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martinlarose (03-08-2023)
03-08-2023, 08:27 AM
#137
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I agree that the option would be nice. In this case I wanted this car as is; full sized sedan, full meal deal luxury experience, etc. You really need a full sized vehicle for that. Thats with this particular car though, I'd also like to be able to order a car of any size with all the goodies, quality materials, so on.
The way I wished it worked is that cars of different sizes came in all flavors of luxury. With MB (as an example) you'd have a 300C, 300E, 300S, 500C, 500E, 500S, like that. The size remains the same, what changes is the level of equipment, tech, and materials. I find a smaller car very useful in town and I used to keep a town car for that purpose but it's never been the car I want it to be; that car would be smaller than the S Class but with all the luxuries of an S Class. It doesn't matter that the sizing would affect the way it rides because the purpose isn't to recreate the S Class in a smaller car, it's to get the advantages of smaller cars with the goodies you want.
I'm thinking about getting the electric Macan for beater duty when that comes out; partly because I feel like sampling an EV but mostly because Porsche lets you tart up the Macan to half decent levels.
The way I wished it worked is that cars of different sizes came in all flavors of luxury. With MB (as an example) you'd have a 300C, 300E, 300S, 500C, 500E, 500S, like that. The size remains the same, what changes is the level of equipment, tech, and materials. I find a smaller car very useful in town and I used to keep a town car for that purpose but it's never been the car I want it to be; that car would be smaller than the S Class but with all the luxuries of an S Class. It doesn't matter that the sizing would affect the way it rides because the purpose isn't to recreate the S Class in a smaller car, it's to get the advantages of smaller cars with the goodies you want.
I'm thinking about getting the electric Macan for beater duty when that comes out; partly because I feel like sampling an EV but mostly because Porsche lets you tart up the Macan to half decent levels.
03-08-2023, 09:14 AM
#138
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Bigger car pays dividends for the driver too. You can't make a small car feel like a big car, and when you become accustomed to big cars with long wheelbases, going back to smaller cars is hard.
For me I originally chose the SWB LS460 because I didn't want something that long, and something was always missing that I couldn't put my finger on. When I drove the LWB one a couple years later, I immediately recognized what the SWB one was missing and I traded it on one.
For me I originally chose the SWB LS460 because I didn't want something that long, and something was always missing that I couldn't put my finger on. When I drove the LWB one a couple years later, I immediately recognized what the SWB one was missing and I traded it on one.
03-08-2023, 09:43 AM
#139
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Bigger car pays dividends for the driver too. You can't make a small car feel like a big car, and when you become accustomed to big cars with long wheelbases, going back to smaller cars is hard.
For me I originally chose the SWB LS460 because I didn't want something that long, and something was always missing that I couldn't put my finger on. When I drove the LWB one a couple years later, I immediately recognized what the SWB one was missing and I traded it on one.
For me I originally chose the SWB LS460 because I didn't want something that long, and something was always missing that I couldn't put my finger on. When I drove the LWB one a couple years later, I immediately recognized what the SWB one was missing and I traded it on one.
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MBNUT1 (03-08-2023)
03-08-2023, 09:47 AM
#140
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Liking small cars is totally legitimate. I wouldn't say you are part of the minority, likely among S Class owners but not car drivers in general. If you like driving an S Class...you like driving a big car. They drive like a big car.
My wife much prefers driving small cars...she hates having to drive a big family car. Me, I would never buy anything under 195 inches long.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-08-2023 at 09:49 AM.
03-08-2023, 10:14 AM
#141
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After the wedding I gave the C250 coupe to my new wife.
The Iridium silver coupe - while a stunning looking car - is small
BUT SHE LOVES IT!
Meanwhile I'm looking into curb rash solutions.
ez
The Iridium silver coupe - while a stunning looking car - is small
BUT SHE LOVES IT!
Meanwhile I'm looking into curb rash solutions.
ez
03-08-2023, 11:01 AM
#142
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Ah, so it was really me the only one that preferred all the luxury amenities and creature comforts, build quality the E-Class have in a smaller car. Everyone else rather have a bigger car. I guess for the passengers the bigger car makes sense but for the driver... (but that is just me thinking that way), I agree the rear axle steering helps though.
Thanks for providing your research findings.
Thanks for providing your research findings.
03-08-2023, 11:02 AM
#143
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Not at all, lots of people like smaller cars
03-08-2023, 11:19 AM
#144
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Such a thing really isn't possible. A big part of what makes a car like the S Class feel the way it feels is the long wheelbase, even with air suspension it really can't be recreated in a small car.
I came to realize this when I traded my SWB LS460 in for a LWB LS460L, same car but the LWB car felt so much more satisfying...it gives the car an elegance over the road that only length and weight gives you.
I came to realize this when I traded my SWB LS460 in for a LWB LS460L, same car but the LWB car felt so much more satisfying...it gives the car an elegance over the road that only length and weight gives you.
03-08-2023, 01:49 PM
#145
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Road forces act on the vehicle in a direction perpendicular to the direction of travel. Imagine a right triangle created when you encounter a force from the road: The wheelbase is the opposite, you have a wheel deflected 4 inches as your adjacent, you're riding on the hypotenuse. The longer the opposite (wheelbase) is relative to the adjacent (the deflection), the less movement at any point on the hypotenuse during the wheel deflection. It's easy to visualize in your mind if you think about it. A long(er) wheelbase has that advantage.
To go back to the question posed in regards to getting better goods in smaller cars; I agree with it, I'm 3 thumbs up. It just wasn't what I was looking for in this car. When I want a truck I buy a truck; in this case I wanted to sample a luxo-barge, never tried one. I'm more of a sports car type, but those are getting hard to climb in and out of anymore. There are rewards that go to driving dynamics as you get smaller and lighter. I really wish I could get all the goods in a smaller car for when I want that car.
To go back to the question posed in regards to getting better goods in smaller cars; I agree with it, I'm 3 thumbs up. It just wasn't what I was looking for in this car. When I want a truck I buy a truck; in this case I wanted to sample a luxo-barge, never tried one. I'm more of a sports car type, but those are getting hard to climb in and out of anymore. There are rewards that go to driving dynamics as you get smaller and lighter. I really wish I could get all the goods in a smaller car for when I want that car.
03-08-2023, 02:58 PM
#146
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Well I should have been more specific then in my comment and said as refined as engineeringly possible given the size constraints. I mean it is dead obvious that a longer wheelbase should give a better ride everything else being equal. That said there are plenty of long wheelbase vehicles that ride like **** so obviously there is more to it than just wheelbase.
Honestly, you achieve what you describe with a really highly spec'ed E Class with air suspension. Thats about as close to an S Class as is possible in a smaller size.
As an example, the GLE vs the GLS. When you drive the two, they are basically the same vehicle in two lengths if you option the GLE with air suspension, the GLS rides considerably better...more weight and the longer wheelbase.
03-08-2023, 04:01 PM
#147
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Guys I did think to qualify my first statement with acknowledging the wheelbase impact but I thought that would be too obvious to bother mentioning. What I am saying it making a C ride and be as refined as possible given it's dimensional constraints not be some wannabe BMW with low profile tires etc. Give it air suspension, put in a small inline six cylinder, like Mercedes used to etc. This is where EV's are going to be game changers on the refinement front. Ie replacing multigeared four cylinders with a single geared electric motor.
Last edited by MBNUT1; 03-08-2023 at 04:13 PM.
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SW20S (03-08-2023)
03-08-2023, 04:23 PM
#148
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I agree with you, not every car needs to be the ride quality king, thats just one factor a buyer may be considering.
To go back to the A45 that car was a hoot to drive, I really liked that part. I like a small crossover in town and I'm not looking for ultimate comfort in that use. I would however like to have all the comforts and the quality of build that only now comes on full sized stuff right now. It didn't have that; if it did I would have legitimately considered buying it.
To go back to the A45 that car was a hoot to drive, I really liked that part. I like a small crossover in town and I'm not looking for ultimate comfort in that use. I would however like to have all the comforts and the quality of build that only now comes on full sized stuff right now. It didn't have that; if it did I would have legitimately considered buying it.
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MBNUT1 (03-08-2023)
03-08-2023, 06:18 PM
#149
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I really like the GLC...
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MBNUT1 (03-08-2023)
03-08-2023, 06:57 PM
#150
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