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The author made a point to mention the smoothness of the transmission. Did they finally get rid of their absolutely terrible in-house transmission? Or did they finally admit incompetence and redesigned the whole thing?
All the reviews I have read of the W223 have praised the smooth transmission. Its something that doesn't really make itself known until you have driven the car for a while. Also remember that they were passengers.
You won't see the SWB here in the US, no point to it. Sells in too few numbers.
I truly love this my first S-Class and enjoy driving it more than my top-down drives in my SL450 (now sold). But it's a monster of a vehicle for me who 95% of the time is the only one in the car. Not only would I rather have a SWB version, I wish MB made a 2-door, not a sporty 2+2, but a Mercedes version of a Coupe de Ville.
I am in the minority but I love to have S class luxury and amenities in a C-Class body, makes it easier to drive around and park but the rear axle steering made a huge difference. MB claims it has the turning radius of the W177 A-Class.
I am in the minority but I love to have S class luxury and amenities in a C-Class body, makes it easier to drive around and park but the rear axle steering made a huge difference. MB claims it has the turning radius of the W177 A-Class.
I join you in that minority. And put the hood star on it!
The reason they stopped importing them is people didn't buy them, sure a few people here or may but those people aren't enough to sustain it.
Having had both the SWB and LWB Lexus LS, I wouldn't ever buy another SWB one, the LWB gives it that grand ride and look. If you want a SWB S Class just get a loaded E450 with air suspension. I just had an E350 loaner, in a high spec no reason to get a SWB S Class
This is MB’s new V8 design (EURO7 compliant) which will also be available as a new AMG version.
Word has it that the next S63 will drop the PHEV design, associated complexity and weight.
Other than the older Maseratis, I can't think of another luxury sedan that had a flat-plane crankshaft V8!
Nice!
Dropping the PHEV would be great for the S63 as well.
Hopeful thoughts, but lower price maybe?
In 35 years of buying new S classes, my '25 S63 AMG E Performance so far has been the biggest pile of ---! It is in the shop again and they cannot figure out the problems again. When it was new about 8 months ago, the check engine light came on at 50 miles (the second day I owned it). Spent over a month in the shop and removed the entire rear end including the gas tank and rear axel for replacing a sensor in the emissions system related to the hybrid system tied in with the gas tank (I know of atleast one other S63 E Performance with this exact issue). Now it appears that even though my car was built in March 2025 (after the big Safety Recall Notice impacting E Performance vehicles built from February 02, 2021 to February 19, 2025) my car is getting tied up in the issues related to the High Voltage Alternator issues but I was just told that they cannot figure out the issues since all the software updates have not worked. It appears that 2 of 8 months of ownership in the shop for repairs should qualify my car for a MB Buy Back--the used car market is littered with these BuyBacks. My dealer has been great to work with since I have a long standing relationship with them but this is getting old. I am almost half serious about completely ending my 35 year loyalty of MB over this issue and buying a $40k Mazda3 Sedan like my son has (he got rid of his E Class for half the price and got a much nicer car than a E Class). My best car in my 35 year history with MB was my '19 S63 AMG. My worst cars were my 2000 ML320 and my 2000 S500 followed by my '25 S63 AMG E Performance. The 2000 ML320 had to have the motor replaced at 25000 miles and the 2000 S500 was just a piece of junk. Now I spend $240,000 (MSRP) on a S63 E Performance with CEL constantly coming on for different issues including transmission malfunction. What has happened to MB? I thought they wanted to focus on the "well heeled" clientele but they will be forced to deal with all the lowered end cars because the people buying high end MBs are either getting tired of the issues they cannot fix or they are not building cars the wealthy want to buy! I was the loyalist of loyal MB supporters and this S63 AMG E Performance has really given me a huge bad taste in my mouth.
MB Must bring back the S63 without the hybrid system because they cannot afford the huge warranty cost on the P3 Hybrid system!
Originally Posted by Wolfman
This is MB’s new V8 design (EURO7 compliant) which will also be available as a new AMG version.
Word has it that the next S63 will drop the PHEV design, associated complexity and weight.
and buying a $40k Mazda3 Sedan like my son has (he got rid of his E Class for half the price and got a much nicer car than a E Class).
Has nothing to do with your issues with your S63, which are awful...but this statement above is just absurd lol. A Mazda 3 Sedan is in no way shape or form a "nicer" car than an E Class. If you truly think that then you just don't value an upscale car and should just get an economy car like that and spend your money on things that you do value.
What has happened to MB?
Seeing that you said you had two other terrible MB experiences 25 years ago the answer is MB has long been a manufacturer that has had major reliability issues and then also models that are excellent. So...nothing has happened to MB they're just still that way. If you are eligible for the buyback I would just take it and move on.
Have you driven and experienced a the top of the line Mazda3 with the quality of the leather interior for the price? I would not be too quick to judge my friend. Yes I was joking but MB has lost touch and at the corporate level in Germany they have been desperately trying to figure out how to "win" back the wealthy clientele that will say "I don't like anything MB is making anymore"--just study the public financial information and you will know what I am talking about especially regarding MB's corporate strategy. I have much personal evidence of this from my business life and my hobbies such as when I am racing cars throughout the US.
Originally Posted by SW20S
Has nothing to do with your issues with your S63, which are awful...but this statement above is just absurd lol. A Mazda 3 Sedan is in no way shape or form a "nicer" car than an E Class. If you truly think that then you just don't value an upscale car and should just get an economy car like that and spend your money on things that you do value.
Seeing that you said you had two other terrible MB experiences 25 years ago the answer is MB has long been a manufacturer that has had major reliability issues and then also models that are excellent. So...nothing has happened to MB they're just still that way. If you are eligible for the buyback I would just take it and move on.
My Corvette C8 Z06 and C8 ZR1 have flat plane crank V8s--they are awesome sounding V8s. Oh but they are not luxury sedans. But they are fast! Now this is how MB gets back on track--attracting performance minded individuals that also like luxury. Exactly why my '19 S63 AMG was my best MB in 35 years of buying new MBs. Lets hope MB is listening to it's customers NOW because they have not been listening lately!
Originally Posted by nearwater4me
Other than the older Maseratis, I can't think of another luxury sedan that had a flat-plane crankshaft V8!
Nice!
Dropping the PHEV would be great for the S63 as well.
Hopeful thoughts, but lower price maybe?
Have you driven and experienced a the top of the line Mazda3 with the quality of the leather interior for the price? I would not be too quick to judge my friend. Yes I was joking but MB has lost touch and at the corporate level in Germany they have been desperately trying to figure out how to "win" back the wealthy clientele that will say "I don't like anything MB is making anymore"--just study the public financial information and you will know what I am talking about especially regarding MB's corporate strategy. I have much personal evidence of this from my business life and my hobbies such as when I am racing cars throughout the US.
I haven't driven a Mazda 3 in a long time, but I have been in it and have driven other Mazdas, I like Mazdas but a Mazda 3 is nowhere near the same caliber a car as an E Class. FWD, macpherson strut suspension with a torsion beam rear suspension...come on lol
Like I said MB hasn't been a brand that you could extol its reliability for at least 40 years. You liked the S63 enough to spend $240k on one, I don't think the issue is people not liking what they are making. Its people dealing with problematic cars but thats been an issue with MB for a long, long time. Personally MB is just now making cars that I find appealing, other than the S Class and a couple one offs like the R124 SL MB hasn't historically made cars that appealed to me, but the modern cars I would buy pretty much all of them other than the FWD stuff.
You've got a good dealer and they want to buy it back, let them.
In 35 years of buying new S classes, my '25 S63 AMG E Performance so far has been the biggest pile of ---! It is in the shop again and they cannot figure out the problems again. When it was new about 8 months ago, the check engine light came on at 50 miles (the second day I owned it). Spent over a month in the shop and removed the entire rear end including the gas tank and rear axel for replacing a sensor in the emissions system related to the hybrid system tied in with the gas tank (I know of atleast one other S63 E Performance with this exact issue). Now it appears that even though my car was built in March 2025 (after the big Safety Recall Notice impacting E Performance vehicles built from February 02, 2021 to February 19, 2025) my car is getting tied up in the issues related to the High Voltage Alternator issues but I was just told that they cannot figure out the issues since all the software updates have not worked. It appears that 2 of 8 months of ownership in the shop for repairs should qualify my car for a MB Buy Back--the used car market is littered with these BuyBacks. My dealer has been great to work with since I have a long standing relationship with them but this is getting old. I am almost half serious about completely ending my 35 year loyalty of MB over this issue and buying a $40k Mazda3 Sedan like my son has (he got rid of his E Class for half the price and got a much nicer car than a E Class). My best car in my 35 year history with MB was my '19 S63 AMG. My worst cars were my 2000 ML320 and my 2000 S500 followed by my '25 S63 AMG E Performance. The 2000 ML320 had to have the motor replaced at 25000 miles and the 2000 S500 was just a piece of junk. Now I spend $240,000 (MSRP) on a S63 E Performance with CEL constantly coming on for different issues including transmission malfunction. What has happened to MB? I thought they wanted to focus on the "well heeled" clientele but they will be forced to deal with all the lowered end cars because the people buying high end MBs are either getting tired of the issues they cannot fix or they are not building cars the wealthy want to buy! I was the loyalist of loyal MB supporters and this S63 AMG E Performance has really given me a huge bad taste in my mouth.
MB Must bring back the S63 without the hybrid system because they cannot afford the huge warranty cost on the P3 Hybrid system!
This is terrible. Sorry to hear!
Strongly suggest to unload that car via buyback asap.
Lemons can happen but the issue is this overly complex hybrid system. Manufacturers have been forced to adapt their cars to very stringent emissions standards or pay heavy penalties.
I see these PHEV systems as a balancing act of trying to comply while creating more power to offset the weight penalty.
The S63 facelift is supposed to go back to a regular V8 mild hybrid which will likely be in the 700hp range and better performance and hopefully lose 800lbs or so in the process.
MBOS and new hardware architecture so I hope this will be a more trouble-free traditional S-Class
The problem is "you have not driven a '25 or '26 top of the line Mazda3". I have driven every car MB sells in the US. I have driven, on a US race track, every AMG MB sells in the US. Drive a NEW top of the line turbo Mazda3 sedan and you will know what I am talking about!
Originally Posted by SW20S
I haven't driven a Mazda 3 in a long time, but I have been in it and have driven other Mazdas, I like Mazdas but a Mazda 3 is nowhere near the same caliber a car as an E Class. FWD, macpherson strut suspension with a torsion beam rear suspension...come on lol
Like I said MB hasn't been a brand that you could extol its reliability for at least 40 years. You liked the S63 enough to spend $240k on one, I don't think the issue is people not liking what they are making. Its people dealing with problematic cars but thats been an issue with MB for a long, long time. Personally MB is just now making cars that I find appealing, other than the S Class and a couple one offs like the R124 SL MB hasn't historically made cars that appealed to me, but the modern cars I would buy pretty much all of them other than the FWD stuff.
You've got a good dealer and they want to buy it back, let them.
I will be the first one to buy a '27 S63 hoping I get the '19 S63 AMG experience back! Now since I did European Delivery on my '19 S63 I sure wished MB would bring back Euro Delivery to the US--one can hope!
Originally Posted by Wolfman
This is terrible. Sorry to hear!
Strongly suggest to unload that car via buyback asap.
Lemons can happen but the issue is this overly complex hybrid system. Manufacturers have been forced to adapt their cars to very stringent emissions standards or pay heavy penalties.
I see these PHEV systems as a balancing act of trying to comply while creating more power to offset the weight penalty.
The S63 facelift is supposed to go back to a regular V8 mild hybrid which will likely be in the 700hp range and better performance and hopefully lose 800lbs or so in the process.
MBOS and new hardware architecture so I hope this will be a more trouble-free traditional S-Class
In 35 years of buying new S classes, my '25 S63 AMG E Performance so far has been the biggest pile of ---! It is in the shop again and they cannot figure out the problems again. When it was new about 8 months ago, the check engine light came on at 50 miles (the second day I owned it). Spent over a month in the shop and removed the entire rear end including the gas tank and rear axel for replacing a sensor in the emissions system related to the hybrid system tied in with the gas tank (I know of atleast one other S63 E Performance with this exact issue). Now it appears that even though my car was built in March 2025 (after the big Safety Recall Notice impacting E Performance vehicles built from February 02, 2021 to February 19, 2025) my car is getting tied up in the issues related to the High Voltage Alternator issues but I was just told that they cannot figure out the issues since all the software updates have not worked. It appears that 2 of 8 months of ownership in the shop for repairs should qualify my car for a MB Buy Back--the used car market is littered with these BuyBacks. My dealer has been great to work with since I have a long standing relationship with them but this is getting old. I am almost half serious about completely ending my 35 year loyalty of MB over this issue and buying a $40k Mazda3 Sedan like my son has (he got rid of his E Class for half the price and got a much nicer car than a E Class). My best car in my 35 year history with MB was my '19 S63 AMG. My worst cars were my 2000 ML320 and my 2000 S500 followed by my '25 S63 AMG E Performance. The 2000 ML320 had to have the motor replaced at 25000 miles and the 2000 S500 was just a piece of junk. Now I spend $240,000 (MSRP) on a S63 E Performance with CEL constantly coming on for different issues including transmission malfunction. What has happened to MB? I thought they wanted to focus on the "well heeled" clientele but they will be forced to deal with all the lowered end cars because the people buying high end MBs are either getting tired of the issues they cannot fix or they are not building cars the wealthy want to buy! I was the loyalist of loyal MB supporters and this S63 AMG E Performance has really given me a huge bad taste in my mouth.
MB Must bring back the S63 without the hybrid system because they cannot afford the huge warranty cost on the P3 Hybrid system!
Sorry to hear about your S... that must be a nightmare.
I keep trying to ignore/skip consensus that blindly defend the brand right now, cause I don't want to repeat myself or bug others out of respect for not repeating myself over and over, but I also think it’s a mistake to skip 100% of the time. There is a clear and data-backed trend that many of us are witnessing in real-time. To be blunt: Mbenz being at the bottom in terms of reliability is a relatively new and very new phenomenon. Historically, as someone who owned and grew around a few Mbenz cars, Mbenz was known to be the GOLD standard. In fact, the brand was often accused of "over-engineering" which you will never hear today.
The way I see it is as follows: 1. The golden era (Pre-2000s): We all remember the W123 and W124. In the 80s and early 90s, cars like the 300D were famous for hitting 500K+ miles. Back then, they weren’t mid-tier reliable cars at all, and they were the most durable machines on the planet. Engineers designed the car first, and accountants set the price second. That’s the philosophy that earned our trust and love for the brand. Am not as old as some of you, but I do have more than 2 decades that I can count towards this loyalty. 2. The 2nd Era (late 2000s–2020): Even during the Chrysler merger era around 2000, mbenz reliability generally sat comfortably in the middle of reliability rankings. They were seen as "average" or slightly over the average for a luxury brand....not perfect, but several years ahead of brands like Land Rover or Jaguar. 3. The turning point (2021–now): They dropped to the dead bottom (24th out of 24 in 2022 and 29th out of 30 in 2024 on a number of famous consumer reports) and only now this becomes the "New Normal" for reliability. I dont think Mbenz "forgot" how to build a car, but they simply tried to become a software and electronics company faster than they could refine the hardware, and at the same time they failed \miserably on the software side (so far). 10 and 20 years ago, a Benz was a solid over-engineered mechanical car with some computers and today, it is a computer on wheels with a motor, and it's fine cause I like that, but at least get me a proper motor and proper cabin not just the computer with outdated software/tech.
Back to your S63, I agree with you...if they can't make the P3 Hybrid system work, they need to go back to what they know, or they’re going to lose more loyal customers. I do think they are walking away from an design that they couldn't fix and costing them a lot in warranty repairs.
My Corvette C8 Z06 and C8 ZR1 have flat plane crank V8s
Non sequitur to this thread, but why a Z06 and a ZR1? Your garage is a dream BTW... aside from the S63 problems (well, nightmares are dreams). What else do you have in the stable?
The problem is "you have not driven a '25 or '26 top of the line Mazda3". I have driven every car MB sells in the US. I have driven, on a US race track, every AMG MB sells in the US. Drive a NEW top of the line turbo Mazda3 sedan and you will know what I am talking about!
I don’t have to drive one, it’s nothing like an E Class. Torsion bar rear suspension is all you need to know. If you don’t get the difference you have been spending way too much money on cars for no reason lol. Better than a Corolla for sure, not a comparison to anything RWD with a longitudinal layout and multilink suspension.
Seriously though, let MB buy your S63 back and move on. It’s not worth the stress. Give MB another shot or don’t, nobody would blame you if you didn’t.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
S63 E Peformance JUNK
But they are fast! Now this is how MB gets back on track--attracting performance minded individuals that also like luxury. Exactly why my '19 S63 AMG was my best MB in 35 years of buying new MBs. Lets hope MB is listening to it's customers NOW because they have not been listening lately!
