S63 coupe VS Panamera Turbo S
11-18-2014, 07:57 AM
#1
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S63 coupe VS Panamera Turbo S
Caught this video this morning. Little confused as to why they would put the S up against the Panny. Just doesnt make sense to me
.
I know many dislike the looks of the Panny however I love the new facelist.
NJoy
. I know many dislike the looks of the Panny however I love the new facelist.
NJoy
11-24-2014, 01:10 AM
#2
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maybe price? still though the panamera turbo s is even more expensive than the s63 coupe. would have to go to the s65 coupe vs pan turbo s excutive for a more evenly priced match up
11-24-2014, 08:33 AM
#3
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Keep in mind the S63 Coupe in UK does not come with 4MATIC, it is rear wheel drive only as mentioned in the video. That likely explains the slower 0-60 mph time compared to the Porsche; the 4MATIC version would be at least as fast as the Porsche in that regard, if this were a USA model.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
12-01-2014, 05:07 PM
#4
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There are some seriously good deals out there on brand new Panny's
12-02-2014, 09:13 AM
#5
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Keep in mind the S63 Coupe in UK does not come with 4MATIC, it is rear wheel drive only as mentioned in the video. That likely explains the slower 0-60 mph time compared to the Porsche; the 4MATIC version would be at least as fast as the Porsche in that regard, if this were a USA model.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
was actually going to make all of the exact same points well said sir.
There is one thing that might make a performance difference on a sprint and that is the weight of the 4matic so would be interested to see how much time it really does take off 0 to 60. ......and no more spirited burnouts ha.
12-30-2014, 09:15 AM
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01-13-2015, 05:42 PM
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4MATIC is a very efficient all wheel drive platform, it adds well under 200 lbs to the vehicle weight while significantly improving power transfer to the ground. Magic body control - which seemed gimmicky to me - is also absent on the 4MATIC models, I understand.
Below is a statistical comparison with a CLS63S model, which I am currently driving. It's 0-60mph is in the mid-3 second range, using either race start or with a good manual launch, similar to the Audi RS7 and Panamera Turbo; all three all wheel drive vehicles are about equally as fast in a straight line. The BMW M5/M6, while similarly powerful, is slower by a half second or so because it is only rear wheel drive.
On the MBUSA website, curb weights of the CLS63S/S63 Coupe are listed at 4,277/4,678 lbs; these are both 4MATIC models, so the S63 is about 400 pounds heavier. Exterior dimensions interestingly are nearly identical - the S63 is one large two door vehicle! On the interior, the S63 has 3 extra inches of front headroom which is nice for us taller guys - I'm 6'2" and the CLS63 is barely adequate for me with the seat position low.
On the AMG website, curb weight of the CLS63S is listed at 1,870/1,945kg for RWD/4MATIC, so only up 75kg ~ 165 lbs for 4MATIC on the same vehicle. Now they specify the S63 coupe at 2,070kg ~ 4,563 lbs; it does not distinguish RWD versus 4MATIC.
Both the E/CLS63S and S63 Coupe share the M157 engine. Horsepower is the rated identically at 577 for each car, but torque rating is 590 ft-lb on the E/CLS and bumped to 664 ft-lb on the S63 Coupe. I don't believe there are any mechanical changes so suspect this is just ECU programming, meaning the E/CLS can get the same power delivery with a tune. I have also read that many of the E/CLS models have dyno'd higher than rated, so who knows how much difference there really is. Assuming the factory figures are accurate, the weight/torque ratios (lower=better) are:
CLS63S: 7.25 lbs per ft-lb
S63: 7.05 lbs per ft-lb
Based on this hypothetical analysis, I think the S63 coupe in 4MATIC form will be very similar in performance Panamera Turbo and RS7, as well as the E63S & CLS63S. While the S63 has more mass to move, the bump in torque should compensate for this and then some. I would expect the RWD S63 Coupe to perform on par with the M5/M6 i.e. in the low 4 second range.
I am pretty enamoured with the S63 Coupe. Although I still have about 21 months left on my 2014 CLS63S lease, I am tentatively planning to order a S63 Coupe once 2017 build slots open. Timing might work out perfectly. By then, I'm hoping first year quirks will be corrected and some additional color options (particularly Porcelain/Black interior) because available via Designo. Right now that's only an option on the sedan. I don't like the Crystal Grey very much, but love two tone interiors and won't do light colors on the carpet. Also I hope Mercedes/AMG adds the Race Start feature to the S-Class, it is nice to have although with 4MATIC getting a good manual launch isn't so hard. Trying to get a great launch on my old CLS55 with a sloppy, messy, and smokey proposition!
Below is a statistical comparison with a CLS63S model, which I am currently driving. It's 0-60mph is in the mid-3 second range, using either race start or with a good manual launch, similar to the Audi RS7 and Panamera Turbo; all three all wheel drive vehicles are about equally as fast in a straight line. The BMW M5/M6, while similarly powerful, is slower by a half second or so because it is only rear wheel drive.
On the MBUSA website, curb weights of the CLS63S/S63 Coupe are listed at 4,277/4,678 lbs; these are both 4MATIC models, so the S63 is about 400 pounds heavier. Exterior dimensions interestingly are nearly identical - the S63 is one large two door vehicle! On the interior, the S63 has 3 extra inches of front headroom which is nice for us taller guys - I'm 6'2" and the CLS63 is barely adequate for me with the seat position low.
On the AMG website, curb weight of the CLS63S is listed at 1,870/1,945kg for RWD/4MATIC, so only up 75kg ~ 165 lbs for 4MATIC on the same vehicle. Now they specify the S63 coupe at 2,070kg ~ 4,563 lbs; it does not distinguish RWD versus 4MATIC.
Both the E/CLS63S and S63 Coupe share the M157 engine. Horsepower is the rated identically at 577 for each car, but torque rating is 590 ft-lb on the E/CLS and bumped to 664 ft-lb on the S63 Coupe. I don't believe there are any mechanical changes so suspect this is just ECU programming, meaning the E/CLS can get the same power delivery with a tune. I have also read that many of the E/CLS models have dyno'd higher than rated, so who knows how much difference there really is. Assuming the factory figures are accurate, the weight/torque ratios (lower=better) are:
CLS63S: 7.25 lbs per ft-lb
S63: 7.05 lbs per ft-lb
Based on this hypothetical analysis, I think the S63 coupe in 4MATIC form will be very similar in performance Panamera Turbo and RS7, as well as the E63S & CLS63S. While the S63 has more mass to move, the bump in torque should compensate for this and then some. I would expect the RWD S63 Coupe to perform on par with the M5/M6 i.e. in the low 4 second range.
I am pretty enamoured with the S63 Coupe. Although I still have about 21 months left on my 2014 CLS63S lease, I am tentatively planning to order a S63 Coupe once 2017 build slots open. Timing might work out perfectly. By then, I'm hoping first year quirks will be corrected and some additional color options (particularly Porcelain/Black interior) because available via Designo. Right now that's only an option on the sedan. I don't like the Crystal Grey very much, but love two tone interiors and won't do light colors on the carpet. Also I hope Mercedes/AMG adds the Race Start feature to the S-Class, it is nice to have although with 4MATIC getting a good manual launch isn't so hard. Trying to get a great launch on my old CLS55 with a sloppy, messy, and smokey proposition!
Last edited by Heisenberg; 01-13-2015 at 05:44 PM.
04-19-2015, 01:59 AM
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The Panamera is a bargain for what it is...it was designed ground-up on a unique chassis to be a 4 door, 4 passenger sports sedan, and it is far and away the best handling sedan money can buy. If you don't like the looks, that's one thing. But it's definitely not overpriced, at least not with the base price. It's a damn good car.
05-10-2015, 07:38 PM
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E55 then E63, now back to an E55
Keep in mind the S63 Coupe in UK does not come with 4MATIC, it is rear wheel drive only as mentioned in the video. That likely explains the slower 0-60 mph time compared to the Porsche; the 4MATIC version would be at least as fast as the Porsche in that regard, if this were a USA model.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
He also mentions the Mercedes has a dual clutch transmission, which is incorrect. The multi-clutch (i.e. automatic) is still mated with the M157 and M275 engines because of their extremely high torque. The smaller V8 in the AMG GT and n/a 6.2L AMG cars are higher revving with somewhat less torque and can take advantage of the dual clutch transmission.
I have no doubt the Porsche has superior handling on the track and has the better transmission.
I actually like the looks of the Panamera, at least in certain colors, but the design was showing its age several years ago... The Mercedes blows it away, it is absolutely stunning.
What's up bud?
That's a hell of a deal, WOW!
