When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Is there a DIY for oil changes out there? Also, I have a 2006 CLK 350 and don't want to wait the long time between oil changes and want to do one myself. Also, how many quarts of the Mobile 1 0w40, thanks in advance.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
My 2006 CLK 550 has been underserviced, with 60k it had the orig air filters.
To do some catch-up maintenance, I added a q of Marvel Mystery Oil which is stoddard solvent, a great way to reverse the deposit process. I ran that a few 100 miles, would have went longer but the old oil was shot.
So a drained and filled with 4q of Rotella dino 15w-40 and 4q of random 30 weight oils for a short oil change this summer, like 5-6 months. I want to jump into 1 year changes, but may do another 6 months over the winter too.
I don't need to use M1 0w-40 since I'll only be doing 5000 miles or so a year, a combo of Rotella Synth 5w-40 and Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 for $45 a shot. I have a big stash of oil here, inc a bunch of M1 0w-40, but it's overkill in this application....sorry.
I'll put the new diesel CK-4 specs up against anything else. Again, it is overkill at 8q up to 8000 miles easily.
Pennzoil® High Mileage motor oil helps clean out the sludge lesser oils leave behind, while helping to reduce leaks and oil consumption in worn or higher mileage engines.1
Pennzoil® High Mileage motor oil is a Pennzoil conventional motor oil that has been enhanced with a unique combination of special conditioning agents and additives to help stop leaks from seals and reduce the oil consumption that is typical of older, worn engines. It’s a motor oil specifically designed for new or late model vehicles with over 75,000 miles, with the mission of keeping engines running clean and going strong.
1Based on severe sludge clean-up test using SAE 5W-30. Engines over 75,000 miles.
It's quite thick and has a nice flashpoint of 220C. For comparison, Pennzoil Platinum Euro Synth 5w-40 has a flashpoint of 215C, a righteous oil in it's own right....with MB 229.3 and 229.5, Porsche A40 et al.
PZ Platinum is now gas-to-liquid base oil, no crude to refine, a true synthetic with perfect seal compatibility. Excels in the ASTM sludge clean-up test sequences.
First few changes will be Rotella for the high detergency, then 10w-40.
Modern "dino" oils are FAR better than a few years ago, 10w-40 included. Out to 5000-6000 miles....this is an ideal lube.
I agree with Moondust, that if the oil's you choose meet the MB certification you should be good. I personally like Amsoil. I did a lot of research trying to understand the many parameters of engine oil and finally decided it wasn't worth the hassle to understand or the worry of if I missed something important in my assessment. There are many additives for many desired, by MB, effects. Things from how the oil coats the materials used in the engine, to how they affect seals, to how much and the kinds of deposits created......
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
See, MB has the task of recommending one single oil for every climate at the farthest possible service interval.
For me, I use 5w-30 in winter, it's thinner in cold than 0w-40 and WAY thinner than 5w-40....which would be a fail in my turbo engines.
In summer, or where mpg isn't important...5w-40 is great. No turbo and are ok with a normal service interval....10w-40 dino, even 15w-40 HD "truck oil" like Delo or Rotella.
There's no substitute for physically draining out the old oil and contaminates. Old oil mixed with condensed water and excess fuel....warmed and mixed....yuk. If the engine doesn't get to sustained operating temp, these contaminates are not burned off and accumulate. No oil formula is going to completely counteract that effect, compared to physically draining it...or extracting it.
So, I do 6 month changes, it's a breeze. M1 0w-40 would be kind of a waste at 5k or even 3k. For the same cost I can do 2 dino changes, leaving the filter in place. Considering what I said, plus the friction additives wear out....2 dino changes do a better job. Right now I'm doing catch=up maintenance on a 10 year old car....at a minimum a few quick dino changes will prepare the engine for full length synth changes.
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 06-16-2017 at 02:40 AM.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
One thing about Mobil 1 0w-40 that most people don't realize is that it's on the thin end of the 40 range to start, then shears to a 30 weight in less than 1000 miles. So, guys thinkin it's the "ultimate protection", don't know it's really a 30 weight most of the time.
All the Euro mfg specs are based on generic ACEA specs, "A3" in the case of MB 229, VW 502, BMW LL-01 et al... This generic A3 spec is unremarkable, and requires no sequence testing, just a statement by the formulator. Mfg specs than add things like an mpg or cold-cranking stipulation, but the big thing the add is a giant fee; $500k for 3 or 4 years of a licence to sell VW spec oil. There's nothing remarkable about the making the formula, you simply call up a big additive supplier like Lubrizol and order a pre-approved spec additive pack. Then blend it into a specified base oil, bottle it and boom....you are in the Euro mfg spec oil business. That's why there are like 100 different approved oils, not because all these little companies went out and formulated their OWN oil....it's just a retailing operation. Blend - bottle - distribute....that's it, no test lab or science required.
Another thing about the ACEA specs is A5. It's just a rigorous as the A3 spec, except thinner. Yep, the jug synth oil you get at WalMart is all A5 spec, just as "good" as A3 and the mfg specs! Neither A3 nor A5 specs are properly reported, but it is very true that Rotella 5w-40 will meet any and every mfg spec based on A3, just like all other 5w-40...except Rotella meets WAY newer and stringent diesel specs too.
Euro specs oils get locked into a formula, and don't take advantage of newer additives, like nano titanium antimony etc... A diesel spec oil will usually have specs just a few years old
So, DiY blending of 30 and 40 weight to get a nice midweight oil works fine. I have a recent UOA from my Audi 3.2 DI engine with Rotella and Pennzoil Platinum, tested used oil had a perfect visc of 12cSt, and super low wear.
I warmed up to Mobil 1 0w-40, and also like the High Miles line. Not a fan of the regular Mobil 1 30 weight. The 0w-40 is a great oil that works universally....but in a clean fresh engine....not to continue extended drain intervals in an old sludgy engine. 2 changes of dino is better than one change of synth....trust me. In my case, Rotella 5w-40 plus PP 5w-30 there is NO COMPROMISE, and it's cheap enough to drain out every 5k / 6 months.
I dissected my old MB filter, I'll take some pics and report on it in another thread.
Shell Rotella is not on the MB 229.5 spec list. In fact, it's not even on the 229.3 list. I would not use it in my MBZ engines. I have no problem with Mobil 1 0w40. It's readily available at a decent price and I've personally used it for over 400K miles in my MBZ engines with no issues.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
I never said it was on the list. I did say it equals or exceeds the specs, which are unspectacular anyway.
It's your lack of experience that leads you to fall back on a handbook written to supposedly cover all possible conditions, except for cleaning out an underserviced engine. That's partly why your experience of regimented Mobil 1 oil changes isn't relevant, I'm not actually doing sequential changes for 400k miles.
So, you don't seem to realize there are better oils than Mobil 1 because you haven't even used anything else, and lack technical knowledge to determine otherwise. It's good thing that you do use the "approved" oil then. You would end up using too thick oil in winter or too thin oil in summer.
Back before CAFE regulations dictated the oil visc recommendations for mpg reasons, men consulted technical charts like this Porsche one, to optimise their selection, rather than hoping 0w-40 is ok for the deserts or arctic conditions....?
Since I have this experience and knowledge to rely on, I'm not bound to trying to clean my engine out with short $100 oil changes, nor trudging on with extended 13,000 mile changes, like an idiot. This is better than either of those options, whether you get it or not.
What technical reason would stop you from using Rotella in my climate and change interval? Wear? Deposits? Cold starting? There is not much else to gain from an oil...
See? "Relative Performance Tool" The name tells you everything...
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Neither of these light 30 weight "A5" oils met VAG specs, in my flashed APR direct injection turbo, but wear and other parameters was somehow lower than crappy 5w-40 Euro spec oil with a fancy-boy name.
Have you any lab work of your own?
NONE of these spec oils worked properly in an early V8 DI engine, except for RLI biobased....custom made oil.
So, owners who stuck to "spec oil" suffered catastrophic wear.
Maybe there are better oils than MB 229...? M1 0w-40 is known to suffer fuel dilution and shear. i don't expect that to be known by MB drivers, their engines are pretty easy on oil. It's funny they think it's so specialized and delicate to only use one oil, when almost any oil will work at the right interval and climate.
I know a guy, Dr. AE Hass who has a fleet of supercars he runs on 5w-20 with factory support. He gets lower wear rates than his buddies with Ferrari spec 5w-40. People might want to read up on him and see why these threads are such lol to me.
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 06-17-2017 at 03:00 AM.
I drive MBZ vehicles because I enjoy their engineering. They are far from perfect, but they do very well what they were designed for. Having been inside the engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. of these cars, I am truly in awe of their engineering, so I have come to trust the advice of the engineers who created them. When they say "use these oils", I do.
There is one area where I have deviated, which is in brake fluid. The only fluid listed on the 331.0 spec is genuine MBZ. However, I did a lot of detailed research and discovered that there are several fluids, mainly high-quality racing fluids, that exceed the chemical and physical properties of the 331.0 spec. One that I like is ATE Gold and Blue. Of course Blue is now "outlawed" by US DOT, so it's just Gold. But there are other that also exceed the specs. The thing about brake fluid is that it is a fairly simple hydraulic fluid that needs to handle given temperatures and pressures. It isn't lubricating piston rings and bearings running at thousands of RPMs; it's simply compressing and dissipating heat. In this case, I feel comfortable not using the "prescribe" fluid.
So, use the oil you want, but I'll continue to use and recommend Mobil 1 0w40 as it is readily available, cost-effective, and has given me many hundreds of thousands of miles of reliability. And BTW, I have always changed my oil according to the cars's extended schedule (~12K miles/1 year).
Unless you're able to research and understand what you're reading, apparently like Audi Junkie, it is much simpler, safer, and cost effective to go with recommended oils.
Otherwise, whether you use the OEM recommended or that of a 3rd party, you are still relying on someone else's assessment of what's best. My driving habits/conditions are just not far enough from the "norm", IMO, to justify the investigative work needed to comfortably go to an alternative.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
What about the sludge epidemic?
For brake fluid, I used DOT 3.
Yes, DOT 3, not DOT 4.
Why? Although DOT 4 has a higher temp range, it sacrifices increased corrosion protection. That's why non-Euro makes do not need to specify 2 years changes.....they "never" need changes.
In the case of my 2006 with 60k, the fluid had not been serviced, and was ~golden~ yellow. It also had waxy-looking precipitate in it, that was likely jelled water.
DOT 3 should be an IDEAL choice to go a few years until the 1/2 worn pads get changed. It will de-corrode the lines and ABS controller. When I re-do the brakes, I can think it over then. But, since those new pads will last me a LONG time, DOT 3 may be the way to go again, rather than 2 year intervals.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Again, the "Euro" mfg specs are all based on the same generic ACEA A3 spec, with the mpg and cold-cranking stipulations.
It's naive and inexperienced people who think MB coolant, brake fluid, oil, washer fluid, etc are "special", they are not. Take a look at Lubrizol's Relative Performance Spec Comparator and tell be what the advantages of different mfg specs are....there are none.
In fact, there are better oils for different circumstances. Like my use of 15w-40 HD this summer in this particular engine. It will clean it out and get dumped at 5000 miles....leaving the engine cleaner than when it started. Going for another 13k run of Mobil 1 0w-40 WILL NOT HELP clean a dirty engine. If someone wants to dump M1 at 5000 miles, feel free. That's an ok strategy, but the HD diesel oil will work better, cheaper with minimal wear, no deposits etc.
Please someone tell me what's to be gained with spec oil, other than blind compliance and a ~feeling~ of satisfaction.
Using oils meeting MB specs is an easy way to ensure you are running something compatible without doing heaps of research. Not many people care about understanding the science behind oils and finding better ones. No one is doubting that there are better oils out there.
Anyway why would anyone take your advice? No one really cares about data from Audi engines or giant pictures of oil containers. Rodneys advice is sound and logical for 99.7% of people including the 3-post newbie from 2007 you think you might be helping. Maybe Glyn will chime in if you want to have a real technical discussion about oils.
Using oils meeting MB specs is an easy way to ensure you are running something compatible without doing heaps of research. Not many people care about understanding the science behind oils and finding better ones. No one is doubting that there are better oils out there.
Anyway why would anyone take your advice? No one really cares about data from Audi engines or giant pictures of oil containers. Rodneys advice is sound and logical for 99.7% of people including the 3-post newbie from 2007 you think you might be helping. Maybe Glyn will chime in if you want to have a real technical discussion about oils.
Here here. Where did this guy come from all of a sudden, using a response to a 10 year old thread as the launching pad to lecture us stupid country folk about oil? So, I can spend days and days of my life researching oil just to come to the conclusion that I can use a different oil? Why would I do that?
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
So, your idea of discussing oil is not to discuss oil?
You also missed the fact that Euro specs all converge on a generic spec, where you don't literally pay for the label.
Also, why wouldn't you be interested in how an oil performs in an engine which is actually demanding on it?
It's almost a fear of the unknown, a fear of technology or of "science" in general.
I can say, this Mercedes forum is FAR behind other automotive forums in this regard. I don't blame Mercedes, they publish their own version of ACEA specs, just like all other manufacturers. I do blame posters like you, who project their own fears and inability to understand the subject onto the forum and onto other posters.
If you think it's clever to only consider one oil, it is not. While I have nothing against spec oil, for it's intended purpose, I cited my own example where I am NOT looking to continue the recommended service, rather to clean out my engine with more frequent changes on a high detergent oil. See the difference? I didn't think so.
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 06-20-2017 at 09:36 AM.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by Yidney
Here here. Where did this guy come from all of a sudden, using a response to a 10 year old thread as the launching pad to lecture us stupid country folk about oil? So, I can spend days and days of my life researching oil just to come to the conclusion that I can use a different oil? Why would I do that?
Don't be stupid, my account is over 12 years oil, older than this thread.
Maybe you can direct us to a more recent oil thread....but you can't.
You seem defensive, even disturbed that someone knows more about a subject than you do. This is partly why the forum is plunged into darkness.
So, better to try to understand my posts and formulate a proper answer than to bash another member for offering info about it.
Do you have any questions or observations? I didn't think so.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
It's also a matter of a person having confidence in their own understanding and judgement.
Some people not only lack the technical background to process the data, they lack the personal fortitude to make their own decision and enact it.
It's actually pretty simple, there's no reputable oil on the market that WILL NOT work in a slow revving old chug-a-lug Mercedes engine, one that lacks modern features like Direct Injection or a turbo charger....like my Audi engines have! LOL!
Can someone suggest an oil that won't work? Remember, Mobil 1 0w-40 shears to a 30 weight, and does very poorly in a fuel dilution environment.
12-28-2007, 10:25 AM
