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Alignment messed up after lower control arm replacement
Hi all, my alignment is really messed up after I replaced my front left lower control arm. It's pulling right unless I hold the steering wheel at around a 60* angle.
Is this normal or did I mess something up in there? Will an alignement fix it?
Your car's front toe is displaced from previously. The current setting accounted for the wear in the part; now that the part is back to new specifications, the toe is incorrect.
Additionally, did you have the "eccentric" bolts (they're not, they just have slots cut in them) and if yes, how did you set them? Neutral position is 6 or 12 O'clock, 3 or 9 O'clock are used to adjust camber and/or caster (not much on a Mercedes; only +/- 0.3 degrees).
Virtually every time you replace one piece in the suspension, you have to reset the toe. Through the school of hard knocks, I now recommend to folks that, if you have to replace one component in the suspension (especially when the Mercedes parts are 13 years old) just replace every darn thing in there. Expensive in one shot but your car is down for only one day versus multiple days and otherwise one will be paying for an alignment every time a piece is replaced.
FWIW, I gave up on alignment shops. They get it close but never quite to my satisfaction; especially when dealing with steering wheel alignment. I will literally adjust the tie-rod ends 3 to 5 days in a row in the evening, drive the car to work and back and monitor if the steering wheel is aligned where it should be, and then adjust tie-rod ends again that evening. Once satisfied, the very next Saturday, I pull out my tubing level, floor tiles (to level tire height), stands, PVC supports, strings, and rulers, and I proceed to set the toe myself. Yeah, I spend 2-3 hours but I know it is exactly where I want it.
What you describe I've experienced on both my W210 and W211. Adjusting the tie-rod ends equally in the same direction will straighten the steering wheel. Once straight, you need to carefully set the toe for the front wheels. At this time, I'm willing to bet I could look at your car's front wheels and tell you which one is pointing outward from the new control arm.
Your car's front toe is displaced from previously. The current setting accounted for the wear in the part; now that the part is back to new specifications, the toe is incorrect.
Additionally, did you have the "eccentric" bolts (they're not, they just have slots cut in them) and if yes, how did you set them? Neutral position is 6 or 12 O'clock, 3 or 9 O'clock are used to adjust camber and/or caster (not much on a Mercedes; only +/- 0.3 degrees).
Virtually every time you replace one piece in the suspension, you have to reset the toe. Through the school of hard knocks, I now recommend to folks that, if you have to replace one component in the suspension (especially when the Mercedes parts are 13 years old) just replace every darn thing in there. Expensive in one shot but your car is down for only one day versus multiple days and otherwise one will be paying for an alignment every time a piece is replaced.
FWIW, I gave up on alignment shops. They get it close but never quite to my satisfaction; especially when dealing with steering wheel alignment. I will literally adjust the tie-rod ends 3 to 5 days in a row in the evening, drive the car to work and back and monitor if the steering wheel is aligned where it should be, and then adjust tie-rod ends again that evening. Once satisfied, the very next Saturday, I pull out my tubing level, floor tiles (to level tire height), stands, PVC supports, strings, and rulers, and I proceed to set the toe myself. Yeah, I spend 2-3 hours but I know it is exactly where I want it.
What you describe I've experienced on both my W210 and W211. Adjusting the tie-rod ends equally in the same direction will straighten the steering wheel. Once straight, you need to carefully set the toe for the front wheels. At this time, I'm willing to bet I could look at your car's front wheels and tell you which one is pointing outward from the new control arm.
Best.
Wow, that was ridiculously helpful and detailed. I'll probably just take it to an alignment shop tomorrow, I've never aligned a car in my life. Glad to hear I didn't biff anything though.
May possibly do the forward thrust arm too, now that you mention it. The passenger side components are newer than the driver side I think, as they look a little different, came like that when I bought it.
At any rate, thank you so much for helping me out.
I did the same thing. Changed out lower arms and had a hell of a time on the alignment rack getting back to spec. It was all out of wack and the tow was the worst. The arms where identical which threw me off in the beginning and those "funny" bolts did not help !!!
Like bbirdwell said,and had I known,just change it all even if the parts look ok and do it in one shot !!
Your car's front toe is displaced from previously. The current setting accounted for the wear in the part; now that the part is back to new specifications, the toe is incorrect.
Additionally, did you have the "eccentric" bolts (they're not, they just have slots cut in them) and if yes, how did you set them? Neutral position is 6 or 12 O'clock, 3 or 9 O'clock are used to adjust camber and/or caster (not much on a Mercedes; only +/- 0.3 degrees).
Virtually every time you replace one piece in the suspension, you have to reset the toe. Through the school of hard knocks, I now recommend to folks that, if you have to replace one component in the suspension (especially when the Mercedes parts are 13 years old) just replace every darn thing in there. Expensive in one shot but your car is down for only one day versus multiple days and otherwise one will be paying for an alignment every time a piece is replaced.
FWIW, I gave up on alignment shops. They get it close but never quite to my satisfaction; especially when dealing with steering wheel alignment. I will literally adjust the tie-rod ends 3 to 5 days in a row in the evening, drive the car to work and back and monitor if the steering wheel is aligned where it should be, and then adjust tie-rod ends again that evening. Once satisfied, the very next Saturday, I pull out my tubing level, floor tiles (to level tire height), stands, PVC supports, strings, and rulers, and I proceed to set the toe myself. Yeah, I spend 2-3 hours but I know it is exactly where I want it.
What you describe I've experienced on both my W210 and W211. Adjusting the tie-rod ends equally in the same direction will straighten the steering wheel. Once straight, you need to carefully set the toe for the front wheels. At this time, I'm willing to bet I could look at your car's front wheels and tell you which one is pointing outward from the new control arm.
Best.
Can I please have you do my alignment lol. I dont think there was one time I was satisfied with alignment work and Ive done some expensive ones as well.
Can I please have you do my alignment lol. I dont think there was one time I was satisfied with alignment work and Ive done some expensive ones as well.
You bring the beer and I'll fire up the bar-be-que grill for after the alignment.
hey guys I have a problem with the car pulling to the right. I have to have the steering wheel like 5 degrees off center to the left to drive straight. alignment guy found rear toe not holding so put on mbart adjustable links. Now the rear feels a lot more planted but the steering wheel is still not straight. He uses a vice grip think to keep the wheel straight during alignment so surely not that! Im wondering if the castor on the front right being 9 instead of 11 and the rear camber being bad those might be the cause. I've redone all bushes and arms in the past couple of years along with reman Arnott unit so unsure how to resolve the issue, castor bolt won't be enough will it?
I would tend to agree that 2 more degrees of caster on the left is causing the right pull. Curious if that can be addressed or if you need to replace more stuff.
hey guys I have a problem with the car pulling to the right. I have to have the steering wheel like 5 degrees off center to the left to drive straight. alignment guy found rear toe not holding so put on mbart adjustable links. Now the rear feels a lot more planted but the steering wheel is still not straight. He uses a vice grip think to keep the wheel straight during alignment so surely not that! Im wondering if the castor on the front right being 9 instead of 11 and the rear camber being bad those might be the cause. I've redone all bushes and arms in the past couple of years along with reman Arnott unit so unsure how to resolve the issue, castor bolt won't be enough will it?
cheers
I would say it is the different castor. Looks like the eccentric bolts (if you have them) on the two front lower control (thrust) arms are not set the same. The eccentric bolts allow three positions; arm pulled in towards center of car (increase castor if I'm visualizing it correctly), arm neutral, arm pushed out away from center of car (decreased castor; again if I'm visualizing it correctly).
FWIW, when I replaced both of my front control arms, I found it to be an absolute b***h(!) to ensure the bolts were each in the same position on each side. Seemed virtually impossible to tell which position in which the bolt was and removing/inserting the bolt itself was a major pain. I had to pull one arm back off when I could not confirm proper positioning. Also there is essentially no room in which to get a torque wrench on the nut.
If you only want to adjust the steering wheel, I found 1/4 to 1/3 turn of the tie-rod ends would bring the steering wheel around about five degrees or so. Since you're steering left that means the front wheels are pointed right when the steering wheel is straight ahead. You need to pull the right front wheel towards the left and push the left front wheel towards the left. I put a pair of narrow paint marks on the threads and tie rod end so I could more accurately turn the adjustment the same on each side. Measure twice, cut once because it is easy to turn one the wrong way. Right side rotate tie rod *into* the tie rod end, left side rotate tie rod *out of* the tie rod end. Tighten lock nut carefully so you don't add additional rotation to the tie rod. I would use a crescent wrench to rotate the tie rod end around the ball joint in the direction I am going to tighten, then hold the tie rod with an open-end wrench while tightening the lock nut with another open end wrench. No need to put the car on a lift, just raise the suspension (not necessary but gives another inch or two of room), throw a drop light under the car, lay on your back and reach under. Not as scary as it sounds so long as you pay attention.
Just keep in mind that steering wheel centering and an actual pull are completely different things. You are not likely to fix a pull with toe adjustments.
Just keep in mind that steering wheel centering and an actual pull are completely different things. You are not likely to fix a pull with toe adjustments.
Thanks for the helpful replies, unfortunately I don't have any adjustment bolts in place at the moment, but I will try get some to address the issue. If I lower the left and raise the right castor do you think there will be enough on those adjustment bolts or should I look at kmac front castor/camber kit for more adjustment? they cost a but more as you probably well know! I think I'll get under there and review my work is it the thrust arm and upper control arm which affect castor the most sir? Does the strut have much impact?
don’t have anything meaningful to contribute but when i replaced my lower control arm and my steering wheel centering went from a crooked 1’o clock to a normal 12. nice
Thanks for the helpful replies, unfortunately I don't have any adjustment bolts in place at the moment, but I will try get some to address the issue. If I lower the left and raise the right castor do you think there will be enough on those adjustment bolts or should I look at kmac front castor/camber kit for more adjustment? they cost a but more as you probably well know! I think I'll get under there and review my work is it the thrust arm and upper control arm which affect castor the most sir? Does the strut have much impact?
Start cheap with the eccentric bolts. Might be a fix for just a small investment in money.
I still have KMac bushings in my front-suspension rear lower control arms but when I replaced the front-suspension front lower control arms (bad ball joint boots) the front KMac bushings came out with them. That was with 70K miles on the bushings; I'm now at 85K miles on the pair still in the car with no issues. I do not recommend KMac bushings for the rear of our W211 but for the front I think they are great. Literally 85,000 miles on them and the camber has not changed since install and suspension calibration. Don't forget you have to press out the stock bushings and press in the KMac bushings so allow time and money for that. A hydraulic press will do the trick quite well. With the KMac bushings up front, you do *not* want to turn the adjustment bolts near the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock positions as it will cause binding of the bushings at full steering lock.
Just got done installing the bolts into the thrust arm. I found it quite easy to tell if they were positioned correctly. My approach is I would pull the arm toward the center of the car on the right, insert the bolt and if i could not spin it, meant that it wasn't centered and was in the grooves. I looked at the bolt and saw it was toward the correct of the black bushing i was aiming for. For the left I did the opposite, pulled it as far away from the center of the car as possible put the bolt in, try spin in when its all the way through and if not, bingo.
Unfortunately my steering wheel is still crooked with no real change detectable. I think i need to go get an alignment. I was also wondering if I needed to mirror my castor adjustments with camber bolts on the main arm ( i have the bolts on me but i wasn't going to worry), or if you can just do castor only. I'll await someone in the knows reply before going out for alignment to save myself triple paying for fukin alignmentz
Looks like there are some alignment experts in the house so I am posting my question here see if my concern is valid.
I just got an alignment at the dealer after installing H&R springs and rear adjustable links. Looking at the specs sheet, I can tell that negative cambers are almost the same before and after alignment
Front left: before: -2.07 after: -2.07 Front right before: -1.53 after: -1.51
I don't know how to read these specs but I thought if negative camber is greater than 2, it's a bit too much. Inner tires will be worn like crazy. The ride height has been lowered by around 3/4 inch. I don't know what was the cambers reading before replacing the springs. I understand that when the ride height is lowered, expect to have negative cambers and unequal tire worn but I just think that -2.38 camber is a bit too much. Thanks guys.
Front camber specs: -1.4* +/- 0.3 degrees. i.e. -1.1 to -1.7*. Eccentric bolts will account for +/- 0.3*. Anything else requires replacement of worn parts or calibration of suspension. Lowest ride height = minimum positive control arm inclination angle = most negative camber.
Rear camber specs: -1.7* +/- 0.5*. i.e. -1.2 to -2.2*. No eccentric bolts; only aftermarket camber arms (SPC eccentric bolts available for non-AMG cars. Not available for AMG as the AMG rear hub uses 14mm bolts versus the 12mm bolts for the non-AMG cars). Adjustment only possible with replacement of worn parts or calibration of suspension. Lowest ride height = maximum negative inclination angle = most negative camber.
Negative camber is not nearly as bad as incorrect toe settings. Raise the rear of the car about 1/2" (10 to 12mm) and you'll bring your camber back into factory specs. Takes about an hour including setup.
FWIW, you should note the inside of the right rear tire goes bald very quickly; this is due to the open differential in the car so the right rear spins first until the ESP applies the brakes to stop the spinning. Took me awhile to figure this one out. I'd keep checking toe and camber only to find them within specs and then...one day...while accelerating at a "vigorous" pace...the light bulb came on.
EDIT: Just saw "H&R Springs". Put in a doughnut to raise the rear 1/4" to 1/2" and your camber should be good.
Thank you for the specs & info. Seems like not much can be done if I want to keep the current ride height. It cost me to lower the car, I don't want to bring it back up. It was lowered by only 3/4 of an inch, no point to bring it back up 1/2 inch. I just wondering why the dealer didn't give me the options of Eccentric bolts or aftermarket camber arms, I am willing to pay extra for parts. For $220, they should have done a better job than just keep the car go straight, it never pull to the left or right anyways. Should I bring the car back and ask for the options? I feel like I paid $220 for nothing.
I feel your pain. The dealer wants minimum work, maximum gain. Throughput!
And this is why I work on my car myself. If I take three weeks to replace a water pump and other stuff, I don't have to worry about being fired. <Although I will give myself a very stern talking-to in the mirror!>
So long as your toe is good, the camber should not cause serious wear *with the caveat* that the right rear will always wear out long before the left rear. Over several sets of tires (and as an engineer I love logging data and compiling records), I have noted the right rear tire on my car will be worn (my determination) 7000 miles before the left rear and 10,000 miles before the front tires.
I feel your pain. The dealer wants minimum work, maximum gain. Throughput!
And this is why I work on my car myself. If I take three weeks to replace a water pump and other stuff, I don't have to worry about being fired. <Although I will give myself a very stern talking-to in the mirror!>
So long as your toe is good, the camber should not cause serious wear *with the caveat* that the right rear will always wear out long before the left rear. Over several sets of tires (and as an engineer I love logging data and compiling records), I have noted the right rear tire on my car will be worn (my determination) 7000 miles before the left rear and 10,000 miles before the front tires.
Both front and rear toes are NOT in red so I guess my toes are good right?
06-25-2017, 07:57 PM
