rlevy

Could someone who understands better than I please explain how the same 4.0L V8 that will be in the GLC63 can have so many different outputs from a high of 603hp in the E63S to a low of 469hp in the upcoming GLC 63? Further Why is the S version of the engine in GLC Coupe only 503hp? I absolutely love my GLC 43. It is a joy to drive. I am wondering if the fact that these engines have lower output in the GLC variants might suggest that the chassis just can't handle more??

ItalianJoe1

Less 'can't handle it' and more 'unnecessary'

The difference is all in the tuning and turbo choices, the lower power ones are derated. A tune on a setup that has 470 will gain way more than a car that already comes with 600.

DameMD

My guess is the reason the GLC63 SUV wont get the S model as not many people will bother to buy the coupe version. Even in the GLC300 forums you don't see many coupe buyers. I am thinking that AMG is trying to make the coupe more attractive by adding the S version which will attract/entice the AMG Shopper.

As far as power is concerned, ItalianJoe1 answered that. Different factory tunes, bigger turbos and probably stronger engine internals and exhaust are the difference in power levels. A simple tune on either the GLC63 SUV or GLC63S Coupe will raise power levels a LOT.

stealth.pilot

The engines are not the same. There are three engines.

The engine in the C63, C63S, GLC 63 and GLC 63S is a single scroll twin turbo engine with a wet sump. The S models are tuned for more power within this group of 4 cars but engines are all the same.

The AMG GT and GTS use the same single scroll Turbo as the C63 and GLC63 models but with a dry sump lubrication setup. Again GTS and GT have different tuning but same engine.

The E63S, and S63 use a double scroll twin turbo engine (different turbos) with wet sump. The more powerful turbos are what allow these engines to push out >600hp even with a conservative factory tune.

The AMG GTC and GTR use a double scroll Turbo V8 with dry sump lubrication.

So there you have it:
4 different engines
7 different tunes
All 4.0 V8 with same cylinder heads and engine block.

PeterUbers

Marketing.

period.

Germancar1

No it's all marketing. They're tuned for what MB thinks is appropriate for the car the engine is going in. There is no need to put 600hp in the GLC. Plus it leaves the door open for them to add more power after the competition responds.

M

Germancar1

Clearly it's all the same engine, in different variations. It's not 4 different engines.

M

stealth.pilot

Yes you could say it's one engine with different hardware configurations and software configurations.

The point is there are component differences between the engines in these cars. It's not just software.

Mr. J

Same block and upper, clearly not the same engines. Turbos and sumps on these engines are not merely "performance bits", they are integral parts of the complete engine. This ain't an LS brah;P

rlevy

Thanks. So the dry sump versions on the GT and GTS models are meant to address the expected more spirited driving and allow lower center of gravity placement of the engine? For those as ignorant as I am this article was helpful <http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/question331.htm>

ItalianJoe1

Engine code is still M177, it's the SAME engine. Different variant, yes, but same engine.

Mr. J

Nope. E63s and GTs have the M178. C63 and GLC63 have the M177. Different engines with similar architecture.

ItalianJoe1

They all come up as a 177 in our system. The GT may have it's own designation, but the E63 is def still a 177 variant, even with the bigger turbos.

I thought the video I just watched on the GTR also called it a 177 but I may be mistaken.

stealth.pilot

This article suggests there are three engines in this family of 4.0 V8s: M176, M177 and M178

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merc...76/M_177/M_178

Mr. J

Is the 2018 E63 in your system yet? The '17 model had the M177 but the '18 is getting a wet sump version of the M178 from the GTs but it's tuned for higher output to offset the weight of the E.


My original point is that these engines aren't the same collection of parts with different tunes. Tunes are important for sure, but these engines are different configurations with shared architecture.

Others in this thread claimed that the only differences between these engines was just marketing and software flash. We both know that isn't correct.

ItalianJoe1

I'm sure it's in the EPC or somewhere in WIS, there's already references to the 223 and they are 3+ years away.

I just had to complete some AKUBIS product videos on the new e63s and GTR, I don't recall. I know we had a product guy with a 2019 development model E63s at the dealership a few months back, and it was still a 177.

The reality is, it's all the same and the parts are all interchangeable. If you wanted to put the big E63 turbos on your 2016 G550, you could bolt them on with enough of the surrounding parts, lines and heat shields and stuff. Same with the dry sump systems, although space constraints vary greatly from one platform to the next, so that may get quite a bit more custom.

The M276 got a pair of turbos added and only got a variant change, from a 276.8xx to 276.9xx. Pretty sure the N/A motor in the latest SLK55 was also still called an M278, even though it lacked turbos. need the second 3 numbers to really know the specifics on it.

dieselfan1974

I agree with your comments in general, however if you are going to pump more air in the engine, you will definitely need more fuel (Larger Injectors) to get more power. There is no need to spend the money on a dry sump system unless you are going to do some serious track driving where you could starve the bottom end for oil. I have a Corvette with a dry sump, however there are several that put out the same power & have no problems, unless they are serious track guys where the g's cause the sump to suck air instead of oil.

DameMD

Why not Can you imagine a 600hp GLC63? I mean the GLC63S is already pushing 3.8 secs 0-60 for 500hp, why stop there.

Seeing as how the GLC43 and E43 weigh the same, the extra power would make it a monster SUV. I am curious to see what Brabus will do this truck.

wassup61

Pick your tuner.... M177 tune only is ~600 crank...

Use the C63 as a proxy, no difference in engine or internals, simply a state of tune between the non-S and S