peter2772000

Hey guys, has anyone ever tried to find/install a filter relocation kit on this engine? Trying to find a way to increase oil filtration on this engine.
An indy mechanic told me that big-rig guys run dual-filtration systems to keep their oil cleaner. Not trying to increase oil-change intervals (which I already do at 3k mile intervals).

Just trying to keep oil quality up there.

DanD.

Interesting idea, Peter.
Where do you get those ideas ?

Recently I was reading another post and found one of the members put just above min mark and adds fresh oil as he goes.
Something like this:
6 Lt - at oil change
+1 at 1K
+1 at 2K
At 3K miles oil change.
Another idea?

peter2772000

I'm not too comfortable with the 2-quart-short idea though to be honest, you'd have to be on a really nasty incline to oil-starve, I'd think.
I have no other ideas. Last week, I added a bottle and a half of Liqui-Moly engine flush 10 minutes before an oil change. Stuff works like crazy, btw. The oil varnish just inside the oil-fill port washed away like it was nothing. But after changing the oil/filter, I started the engine to fill the oil filter. 10 seconds, no more. Pulled out the dipstick and it was blacker than the ace of spades. Talk about bummed out. But thinking about it now, I'm thinking that the flush loosened up so much varnish'n crap off the walls of the engine block/heads, the fresh oil was contaminated (or at least discoloured) right off the bat.
I'm going to replace the oil & filter again tomorrow and see if the colour is any lighter. Running 20W50 synthetic motorcycle oil, btw. Lost the engine cover and belly pan as well.

BTW, the remote filter ideal is more about doubling/tripling filtration. The typical remote kits offer dual filters as an option. You gotta admit, having two full-size spin-on filters can't hurt.

DanD.

It won't hurt as long as oil can flow as fast as it now without any additional resistance, so oil pump dosn't have to work harder.

When I do check oil level, it' relatively clean for a day or so after a change. But I don't run any cleaners, heard so many bad stories, so taking my chance with frequent oil changes.

Happy driving !!!

kajtek1

MB employs about 50 engineers to develop the car.
You want to outsmart them?

peter2772000

MB's over-competent engineers are controlled by MB's bean-counters and the EPA. So hell yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do.

DanD.

Maybe he does work for MB research team. Who knows?

smiledr996s

peter2772000

Awesome idea, actually a very good one. I think I will, thanks for naming the company.

As far as you never having gelled an engine to date, all I can say is I go by what I've read. Todays diesels aren't what they used to be, and they now use all this DPF and DEF technology. To boot, they recommend oil changes only every 10k miles under "normal" use. Normal use excludes stop'n go traffic, a reality in most our lives now.

I'm presently running the best oil that I can. I run 20W50 motorcycle synthetic oil. I know, I know, you're like "this dude's flucked in the head. I'm going by what I believe is the only tech who was/is independent/confident enough to post his opinions....after over 50 years of experience. I trust him in a heartbeat over the MB bean-counters and lawyers. Yeah, prolly seems like a leap of faith. But nothing he recommends can damage my engine, only cost me money unnecessarily (by running expensive motorcycle oil and replacing the oil wayyyy more often than recommended by MB).

smiledr996s

peter2772000

Ditto on all points. Wayyyy too many details to keep this beotch running well. Please share where you got this tune.

smiledr996s

peter2772000

You may very well have become my new bestie. Send me a blood sample, I'll mix it with mine and seal the deal.

smiledr996s

Suprdave

I have about 4,000 on the 20w-60 in S.FL...working great so far, changing it on Thursday and it's going out for analysis.

Going with Fresh 20w-60 Redline and adding Ceratec this go-around. Oil is going to Blackstone..already have a container.

Trying to Setup a Carbon Cleaning this week too...

Next Step will be Adding Pre-Turbo Water-Meth...after dialing that in, I'll look at addressing 'Exhaust Flow Restrictions' and EGR\PCV Recirculation and do Reprogramming for Efficiency and Reliability.

Once dialed this thing should run like a top...

toddman35

Agree - the same concept applies to oil viscosity.

Is the pump run off the timing chain on these? The additional resistance caused by thick oil will put additional load and resulting stretch on the chain if so. Running a 50/60 weight vs the recommended 30 weight certainly doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Not to mention the lack of flow during startup and potential resulting damage to engine internals. The coldest weather you see is 70*F? Okay.

Diesel oil turns black after use. Nothing to worry about.

Not to mention their long history with Diesel engine development and manufacturing to build their knowledge base on and their millions of dollars in test equipment.

To say an engine oil is working great after 4000 miles without any data to back it up seems a bit preposterous to me. That would be the equivalent of Mercedes driving one test car around the factory lot once, asking the driver if he perceived any problems then shipping it out and saying it works great.


To the OP - are compromises made during vehicle development between the so called bean-counters, EPA and engineers? Yes, there are. If a program isn't profitable, it isn't viable. If it doesn't comply with regulations, it cannot be sold. At the end of that development process the results of those compromises are tested and validated. To come in and throw heavy weight motorcycle oil in a low revving, high compression diesel engine and say to hell with all that testing, I know better is pretty short sighted.

What do I use in mine? An oil that meets the appropriate MB-229.5x rating. I change it at the appropriate interval and I move on with my life with confidence knowing that what I'm using for engine lubrication has been validated by Mercedes' test engineers.

kajtek1

I always wonder why owners of such expensive engines hesitate to send used oil for testing?
The $25 for service is small change comparing to cost of new oil and gives you actuall experience and no gambling with motorcycle oil
That said, Blackstone always gave me "you could still use it" on my samples after 13k miles (on the average).
Than bypass filter can give better filtration of small particles, when few reports of seized Bluetecs pointed to oil changing into semi-solid sludge, what has to be some kind of chemical reaction, where mechanical filter will not help.
Than again, I tore apart my old 642 engine after 180k miles when it suck water and broke the rod. No sludge and for last 20k miles I was doing 13k intervals.
PO serviced it at dealer, so most likely she observed FSS as well.

peter2772000

Well, you know what they say about opinions, friend; they're like buttholes, everyone has one.

My personal opinion is based on someone else's. What the heck do I know? Yeah, I rebuilt my first engine before I got my drivers permit. But I'm not even close to being a specialist in the field and I'm just starting to get acquainted with diesels.

In regards to the jet-black oil; I'm aware of the fact that diesels are dirty and will darken the oil quickly. But I now realize that the engine flush cleared so much varnish off the inner walls of the block/heads etc,, that my fresh oil was discoloured by it immediately. Which is why I intend to repeat the process again, but with a flush with cheap oil as I mentioned earlier.

The other opinion I talked about? It addresses your issue with heavier weight oils. This is his latest commentary;

"The new 2018 diesel oil change intervals are twice a year. Change the oil at the start of summer & winter. No more 10000 & 20000 mile oil change intervals.
The average owner drives 10 to 12 thousand miles per year. I’ve heard some owners think it’s so the dealer can make more money. Service departments don’t make money doing oil changes. At best, it’s a break even. There is more money to be made in selling major engine repairs. These engines desperately need frequent oil changes.

Mercedes also is now approving higher viscosity oil. 10W/60, 15W/60, & 20W/60 weight oils are now approved. Mercedes finally explains this in their 2018 BlueTec owner’s manual.
I’ve listened to a lot of so called experts pontificate about the evil’s of 50 & 60 weight oil. Maybe now, they will give it a rest."

To address the initial reason for this thread; Although I never did find a remote filtration system, the same fine gentleman who's opinion I trust referred me to an outfit which sells an oil filter insert. This allows you to run a honking big spin-on oil filter, jez like in the good ole days. A bit on the pricey side, but I've evidently decided to fret about this subject and will therefore be ordering it soon.

In the end, it's all subjective. I trust car manufacturers as much as I trust government; with clenched butt cheeks.

toddman35

Clearly this person's opinion is one to be trusted with generalizations such as 2018 diesel oil change intervals being twice a year and not mileage based. Oil change intervals have long been calculated based on duty cycle of the specific engine and reported on the vehicle display, perhaps he is unaware of that or there is something new that I'm unaware of. I did search the E class owners manual and found no mention of heavy weight oil - I'm curious though so post a page # or reference to the appropriate document.

I would caution you to check the pressure drop across you filter setup. The problem with adding lines and extra filters is the restriction in the system that it causes. You may think you're helping your engine but without having the data or having done the calculations, you may end up doing more damage than good.

I bolded the last section and this is probably where my issue lies - your engine's design and associated lubrication system is not subjective. It is backed up by one of the largest diesel engine manufacturer's design engineers, test engineers and application engineers who have done the testing, validated the design and have the data to prove why it isn't even close to subjective.

Is it a perfect product? No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that just because you took apart an engine when you were 15 and read the some blog on the internet that seemed to convince you that running motorcycle oil in your diesel was a good idea, maybe you should take a step back and apply the same skepticism that you have for your engine's designers to the blogger that you're so fond of.

You're obviously welcome to do as you wish and believe what you want. I'm merely trying to provide some insight into why you should consider trusting the company that designed and manufactured the vehicle that you chose to purchase instead of someone with "50 years of experience" ranting on the internet.

Really though - check the pressure drop on that filter setup with your heavy oil compared to stock with the recommended weight oil. If you aren't willing to do that, I would suggest not adding the filter. That will point you down the path where things turn from subjective to objective.

Suprdave

You can say what you want, but I actually heard the engine before and after I changed the oil and have been maintaining the Vehicle since it got off Warranty. I also drive it daily.

I've started playing with Oil and Bearing Clearances 15 Years ago on Turbocharged Hondas making 700whp+ and 9500+rpm. I've seen the before and after on Race Engines I've actually built.

I'm pretty sure I can say MY engine is running better and smoother with the 20w-60 Redline...I'm not saying that's the perfect viscosity, but I will get there by trial and error and Oil Analysis.

TO ADD: My Last Service at Mercedes Dealership was a 5w-50. I used the 20w-60 in 50degree weather and it started like normal.

The thicker oil MIGHT give another 10psi compared to the 50w that Mercedes put in...MAYBE. I've actually done my own experimentation in the past and 20w50 was good for 20psi Oil Pressure over the 5W30...I'll take it anyday of the week. Thanks for Playing.

toddman35

You realize that oil pressure is an indication of the resistance in the lubrication system, right? That's the exact point that I've been trying to make. Putting in a more viscous oil isn't going to flow as well to anything that you're trying to lubricate.

Next time put a 90w gear lube in it, I'm sure it will be even quieter and the oil pressure will be even higher.

I'm not trying to put anyone down in this thread, the point is that you guys are playing with things that can cause engine damage over the life of your engine and basing your actions on ridiculous logic.

Thank you for posting your credentials as well. Now we know that you don't do this everyday for a living like the engineers who have thousands of hours in to designing, manufacturing and testing your engine.

kajtek1

Just a reminder (every MB hobbyist should know this already) - the "0" grade oils become popular for average car becouse they provide faster lubrication on "dry engine start", therefore extending the engine life, even when they might provide less lubrication at higher temperatures.

Suprdave

I actually looked at my receipt and it was 15w-50 they put in the last Dealer Service...so explain to me how much Damage I'm doing using a 20w-60 @ 5k Intervals compared to a 15W-50 @ 10k Intervals?

I know you're (toddman35) trying real hard to be the smart guy, but you come off more arrogant than anything.

The fact of the matter is, unless you build and engine specifically for very thin oil with ultra tight clearances or are in a Winter Climate, using a thicker oil isn't going to hurt anything.

I live in a Tropical Climate...the fact the dealer is using 15W-50 here should tell you something. I'm sure you'll have some long-winded response no matter what so I'll leave it here.

peter2772000

Yo Todd, the above is MB's new oil-change interval recommendation, not the person I was referring to. He was simply quoting what MB "now" touts as proper oil change intervals. Not to mention that 229.51 was the gold standard....'till 229.52 came out. Then suddenly, 229.51 became the scourge of the planet.

As for the oil-pressure drop, great point. But the insert I mentioned simply adapts the present oil filter housing to a spin-on type, so I doubt there'd be any pressure drop found there.

The way you answered my last post confirmed to me that you're not just another diabolis. You don't seek to insult anyone or purposely stir the *****pot, and I appreciate that. You "know" I'm wrong, and it's pretty well vice-versa on this end. Let's just agree to disagree *wink*

toddman35

Is 15w-50 factory approved for your engine? If not, they put the wrong fluid in. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time that a dealership employee has done that (I'm also sure this is a point we can agree on ). I don't know if it is approved or not for your specific engine. If it is, we don't need to have this conversation regarding 50 weight oil.

In terms of damage I can confidently say that I do not know the answer to that question. I can also confidently say that neither do you. The people that do know are the ones that provide the approved fluid lists and have done the testing to determine what goes on it. Oil change interval (within reason) isn't particularly relevant to damage caused during cold starts when the fluid is more viscous.

Perhaps it's the message that you don't care for. No one likes being told they don't know what they're doing. However, I am sorry for hurting your feelings with my approach. I am happy to admit that I do not have the knowledge to outsmart the people that designed the engine in my vehicle. That said, I also have enough intelligence to recognize that I don't too.

This is not true.

I can't find any information on this? Everything appears to still be based on the computer controlled flexible service schedule for A & B.

No worries, we're all just trying to do what's best for our engines at the end of the day aren't we? You're probably reasonably safe with just an adapter, assuming whoever made it has a decent idea what they're doing.