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My engine ticking noise thread has become a bit convoluted and thought I would use this thread to cut straight to the chase. I just heard from my SA that the factory rep has approved a brand new motor! Apparently, there are 4 sitting in crates in Roseville, Ca and 1 of them is now mine. Looks like I will be getting the car back just after Thanksgiving. My SA was unclear as to what exactly comes in the crate. Of course, the big question there for me is the ECU. I assume they will swap the ECU from the old motor rather than reprogram VIN and everything to a new one. Also, I am hoping of course for new plugs and coil packs. But still unsure what I will get. I assume plugs as a minimum just to keep the 8 holes plugged from contaminant. Any of you guys know FOR CERTAIN what comes in the crate for a new engine?
SO, the really interesting thing here is that the final determined damage appears to me to be pretty minor. No crank issues or rod bearings. Their best diagnosis is piston slap in 1 or 2 holes in the left bank. See all the pics below that they sent me. I mean there is some very minor scoring on a couple of walls and on a couple of piston skirts, but I don't see how these contribute to the ticking sound. Any MB techs out there that can comment? The truth of course is that I don't care! NEW ENGINE! Wooo Hooo. BTW, another piece of good news that came out of these inspections is that the tune looks like it has nothing to do with what happened.
Here are all the pics that they sent me for the engine damage.
Depends on if it is a long block or short block. I'd bet it is a complete long block with everything. They will reuse your ECU since it is coded to the car.
Depends on if it is a long block or short block. I'd bet it is a complete long block with everything. They will reuse your ECU since it is coded to the car.
It’s the long block. That is certain. SA just wasn’t sure how extensive it came. Alternator, power steering pump, ac compressor, etc.
What happened to your engine was similar to what happened to my Mazda 929 engine back in 1989; that engine was replaced by Mazda at only 6000 miles. Never had another problem with that car.
Here is the big question, will you transfer the new builders name on to your new carbon fiber cover or will you use the old engine builders name on your carbon fiber cover?
Here is the big question, will you transfer the new builders name on to your new carbon fiber cover or will you use the old engine builders name on your carbon fiber cover?
HAHAHA
My SA and I are practically buddies at this point and we joked about this exact same question. We both came to the conclusion “who cares”! Lol Marcel’s nameplate on the new CF cover will be just fine. Assuming things like bad luck do not exist! Lol. If the new engine comes with a standard cover with the new nameplate, I will store it in garage for the day I sell the car, and then offer one of you guys on this site a great deal for the CF cover!
I am indeed pretty psyched about this. Not often you can say a car is worth more 6 months after you buy it than what you paid.
Because the ECU likely wont be changed out, my 2nd tuned one should still be fine. Shouldnt need a dyno tune.
but will this be on the carfax "motor replacement"
how does that play out for value
First,
why would it be on a carfax? This has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
Second,
If I were selling the car right after I get it back, and it was on carfax, or simply disclosed, do you think ANYBODY would say “ I want to pay less for the car because it HAS A BRAND NEW FACTORY AMG ENGINE IN IT”? Lol
First,
why would it be on a carfax? This has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
Second,
If I were selling the car right after I get it back, and it was on carfax, or simply disclosed, do you think ANYBODY would say “ I want to pay less for the car because it HAS A BRAND NEW FACTORY AMG ENGINE IN IT”? Lol
What am I missing my friend? Lol
Dealer services actually do frequently show up on Carfax reports. And to answer the question, people don't really want a problem car. My last Genesis I bought with 6,000 miles on it. The fact that the original engine was replaced about a thousand miles prior was never disclosed and I would have never paid what I did had I known. I do hate to tell you this but an engine replacement on a lower mileage car will actually hurt the value, esp on a car like this. People don't want to see previous major failures on the records.
Congrats on the new engine though. I'd hate to see someone hit with the costs involved.
Dealer services actually do frequently show up on Carfax reports. And to answer the question, people don't really want a problem car. My last Genesis I bought with 6,000 miles on it. The fact that the original engine was replaced about a thousand miles prior was never disclosed and I would have never paid what I did had I known. I do hate to tell you this but an engine replacement on a lower mileage care will actually hurt the value, esp on a car like this. People don't want to see previous major failures on the records.
Congrats on the new engine though. I'd hate to see someone hit with the costs involved.
Nothing to “hate to tell me” Argument you make generally holds true for the average make and model. It does not hold true on cars with a very limited interest base that know exactly what they are after and realize that 100 of them dont show up in listings for every city.
In case its not clear, I am not the slightest worried about how the car’s value “might” be affected by this. I was just making an off the cuff remark about the car now being newer overall than it was 6 months ago when I bought it. And btw, I dont plan on selling it anyway until 2022ish comes.
I was not clear on your question about who is hit with the cost. MB factory is paying for it. Engine defect in a car still under factory warranty.
I'm no mechanic, but I have no idea why such limited scoring would create the ticking sound - unless you caught it so early that in 100 miles it would be a major one?
But all that matters none to you - happy you got a new engine!
And I'm with you - on high value German cars like this an engine swap (or major work) is increasing the value of a used one. I bought a prior car, an Audi W12 exactly BECAUSE they had dropped the engine and replaced O2 sensors and a whole set of other sensors that go bad at a certain mileage, and require a drop to be replaced. Esp when the owner is open about it. Yes, maybe not great to read on Carfax, but when you hear the story - Bom!
First,
why would it be on a carfax? This has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
Second,
If I were selling the car right after I get it back, and it was on carfax, or simply disclosed, do you think ANYBODY would say “ I want to pay less for the car because it HAS A BRAND NEW FACTORY AMG ENGINE IN IT”? Lol
What am I missing my friend? Lol
Vrod - very happy MB resolved this for you and the new motor is coming!!!! Only bummer is you’ll have to drive the dealer loaner car around a while while they get the motor installed and that will lake you miss the 63 even more .
First,
why would it be on a carfax? This has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
Second,
If I were selling the car right after I get it back, and it was on carfax, or simply disclosed, do you think ANYBODY would say “ I want to pay less for the car because it HAS A BRAND NEW FACTORY AMG ENGINE IN IT”? Lol
What am I missing my friend? Lol
I don't think it'll make a big difference to you either way by the time you get rid of this car in 2022, it'll be worth $25,000 lol! My two transmissions showed up on carfax for my e550's and I've seen w213 amg and w212 amg major services show up on carfax and it's probably a 50/50 argument on whether someone wants the car or doesn't want the car because it's had a new engine
at 2022 when your car is worth $20-25,000, the true enthusiast will probably enjoy that it's got a newer engine; I would venture that most shopping for a 2015 warrantied amg would pass on this car right now, I've seen countless threads on here even where people ask if they should buy a car that's got major service done to it and most will say walk. And it's not about the new engine because that is brand new it's about the old one coming out and the new one going in and did that technician do it as perfectly as we would assume the AMG factory and technicians do it in Germany
I don't think it'll make a big difference to you either way by the time you get rid of this car in 2022, it'll be worth $25,000 lol! My two transmissions showed up on carfax for my e550's and I've seen w213 amg and w212 amg major services show up on carfax and it's probably a 50/50 argument on whether someone wants the car or doesn't want the car because it's had a new engine
at 2022 when your car is worth $20-25,000, the true enthusiast will probably enjoy that it's got a newer engine; I would venture that most shopping for a 2015 warrantied amg would pass on this car right now, I've seen countless threads on here even where people ask if they should buy a car that's got major service done to it and most will say walk. And it's not about the new engine because that is brand new it's about the old one coming out and the new one going in and did that technician do it as perfectly as we would assume the AMG factory and technicians do it in Germany
like i I said either way it doesn't affect you significantly and I'm glad you're getting a new engine.
Hey Peter,
I generally agree with everything you said here. But I believe it would be more accurate if I had ended up with a newly REBUILT bottom end by a non-Stuttgart tech. An entire new engine means it was entirely built by the masters in Germany. As far as being installed correctly, I just dont see the risk. I have pulled motors in cars over the years and never had an issue. And clearly, I dont perform that function as regularly as these guys do. They do this almost weekly.
Bottom line in my position is I feel better about the car’s drivetrain than the day I bought it. Everybody may not agree. And that’s fine. But it is a win in my view.
Vrod - very happy MB resolved this for you and the new motor is coming!!!! Only bummer is you’ll have to drive the dealer loaner car around a while while they get the motor installed and that will lake you miss the 63 even more .
Thanks a lot J,
They actually gave me a 2019 black E300 with 425 total miles on it! So not terrible. It will just make my car that much more exciting when I get her back! My dealer takes pretty good care of me. I am thankful for that!
How have you been? Hopefully not working too hard.
I'm no mechanic, but I have no idea why such limited scoring would create the ticking sound - unless you caught it so early that in 100 miles it would be a major one?
But all that matters none to you - happy you got a new engine!
And I'm with you - on high value German cars like this an engine swap (or major work) is increasing the value of a used one. I bought a prior car, an Audi W12 exactly BECAUSE they had dropped the engine and replaced O2 sensors and a whole set of other sensors that go bad at a certain mileage, and require a drop to be replaced. Esp when the owner is open about it. Yes, maybe not great to read on Carfax, but when you hear the story - Bom!
Hey C,
I work with a few other gearheads like us. One guy has a 2002 Camaro that runs a 6.50 1/4 !!! It pops wheelies. They looked at the pics and agreed with you and I. Doesnt seem to make sense. I have rebuilt motors before with worse scoring that didnt make a sound. Hmmmm.
But, hey, if they want to give me a new motor, why should I get in the way? Lol
That tiny bit of scoring won't cause noise. If you have a wristpin hole stretched or something it may not be noticeable on the bench without very careful measuring, which as you said, won't happen because the new engine is already approved.
That tiny bit of scoring won't cause noise. If you have a wristpin hole stretched or something it may not be noticeable on the bench without very careful measuring, which as you said, won't happen because the new engine is already approved.
Wouldn’t you think they would want more “smoking gun” evidence before requesting a new motor from the factory rep? The tech wrote it up as piston slap in 1 or possibly 2 holes on the left bank in his request to the factory rep with the same pics attached. I had a piston slap a long time back on a 403 motor. It sounded like a hammer hitting the block. This sounded like a marginal lifter. That 403 motor did get a bit quieter though when warmd up just as this new motor did. So that fits. However the 403 was an iron block. So the thermal expansion mismatch between piston and block was different as I believe the AMG block is aluminum?
Are you a MB dealer tech? Your handle seems familiar.
I generally agree with everything you said here. But I believe it would be more accurate if I had ended up with a newly REBUILT bottom end by a non-Stuttgart tech. An entire new engine means it was entirely built by the masters in Germany. As far as being installed correctly, I just dont see the risk. I have pulled motors in cars over the years and never had an issue. And clearly, I dont perform that function as regularly as these guys do. They do this almost weekly.
Bottom line in my position is I feel better about the car’s drivetrain than the day I bought it. Everybody may not agree. And that’s fine. But it is a win in my view.
and best part is... it's still under warranty!!! Win win WIN
how much would this cost out of pocket -- $50,000??
Last edited by PeterUbers; 11-11-2018 at 01:11 AM.
Wouldn’t you think they would want more “smoking gun” evidence before requesting a new motor from the factory rep? The tech wrote it up as piston slap in 1 or possibly 2 holes on the left bank in his request to the factory rep with the same pics attached. I had a piston slap a long time back on a 403 motor. It sounded like a hammer hitting the block. This sounded like a marginal lifter. That 403 motor did get a bit quieter though when warmd up just as this new motor did. So that fits. However the 403 was an iron block. So the thermal expansion mismatch between piston and block was different as I believe the AMG block is aluminum?
Are you a MB dealer tech? Your handle seems familiar.
Thanks for your obsevations.
Yes and no. That type of damage is still a problem, and the only solution is engine replacement as the block can't be refinished. I've seen them replace engines for damage like that, and then i've seen them request teardown on an engine with a rod poked through the side of the block. I don't know how they decide which ones get investigated more or less.
That tiny bit of scoring won't cause noise. If you have a wristpin hole stretched or something it may not be noticeable on the bench without very careful measuring, which as you said, won't happen because the new engine is already approved.
Last 157 I priced out was nearly $80k for a complete engine.
I had assumed the new 156 would be in the neighborhood of a new 157. If $80k is correct, then my assumption was way off. I know on my 2011 M156, a new engine was priced at $52k. They ended up rebuilding the bottom end of that one. Car since has been sold.
Hey Joe,
Do you know what all is included in the crate for the new 157? New turbos, alternator, power steering pump, ac compressor, etc?
11-09-2018, 05:09 PM
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