Logic7

Hello,

I just joined this forum in order to get valuable advice from the experts here. Nice to meet you people.

Recently my family has opted to go for a mercedes. An E220d 2018 with only 4000km to be exactly, for around 37k euros.

I did test the car and it truly drives magnificent. I would like to know how reliable these car are. Because we already had an Eclass 2001 and had horrible experiences with it. But our C220 of 1996 was legendary and thats the reason we want to give it another shot.

- should i go for c200 or e220?;
- can i expect to drive this car perfectly fine for a decade without repair bills?;
- is the 37k price tag justified?;
- what should i avoid doing in general?


Thank you

DFWdude

A) Your questions are probably best answered on the W213 Forum (current E-Class Chassis)

B) Hopefully, a member here from Europe can assist with evaluating your 37k Euro deal. $41,300 (converted to dollars) for an E with only 2500 (US) miles might be an excellent deal in the US (maybe even a deal too good, actually). But I don't know how that compares in the European market.

C) BUT, I will offer some general comments, opinions...

First, on any MBWorld forum, you will see many threads on car problems. Because members with problems seek answers in this community, while the vast majority of members with faultless cars have little reason to complain. So I would read the posts here with a grain of salt.

For instance, you mention your 2001 E-Class was a bundle of problems, but my 2001 C-Class is still in my family, and has been a trouble-free blessing for 18 years now. I suppose one can find a lemon in every brand of automobile.

Finally, you will find (SOME but not all) "model snobbery" here in abundance. Some S-Class owners look down their noses at E-Class owners, and especially E-Class owners who disdain C-Class. And the new A-Class and SMART cars are hardly ever mentioned here.

Frankly, I think this attidute is bunk. Having both an E and C in my family, I can report my feeling that both are made to the same standards/materials as any other Mercedes. The only difference -- literally -- is size. The C is smaller inside, but if you currently are just one or two adults with little need for a back seat for people 18 or older, then the C may be your best bet.

I mention all this, because asking for comparisons between vehicles of different classes is sure to bring out the opinions, which you should consider with an equal grain of salt. HTH.

kajtek1

I know the price would be huge bargain in Australia,
Also each market is getting different emission systems, so not knowing the country we can speculate all day long, but it will be only speculation.
Lastly this forum is DIY-oriented. Meaning most of the members here are driving older vehicles and share tips how to maintain them without spending fortune at dealers.
New vehicles owners have warranty, so they don't come here, unless long-time member buys new MB and come to share some experience.
Generally last years MB ironed the glitches previous generation of W211 has, so that is good prediction. They have issues with low-profile wheels and new electronics.
Than W210 in US are consider real workhorses, while you had horrible experience. So general opinion and your personal experience don't always have to go the same direction. That is the point where highlighting PPI takes place
I could never fit well in C class. Not that I am that big guy, but have long legs and like to keep them straight on long drives.
Good luck with the purchase.

Logic7

Thank you for your reply.

The C200 is fully loaded, the E220 is not. Both has almost the same price tag (37k).

I find the price rather expensive for a car. Maybe i should put it this way, i find it expensive for something that will inevitable breakdown. Not mechanical but electric failures since current cars are no more anolog. Even the tachometer is digital but thank god not in the one that im "going" to buy.

2 weeks ago i was about to buy a brand new discovery sport. When i asked the local dealer about the reliablity, he changed the subject which for me the lights went on. I did some research on the internet and ran away from that brand.

Now i feel like i have to be sure about reliability in order to make the purchase.

What made me suprise here on the forum is seeing al the big engines you people have. In west-europe you dont see them very often. We go for 2liter tops. Since the taxes are alot. We cant even drive older diesels in the city anymore, theyre all banned.

Another question follows

- is it advised to always go to a certified mb dealer for maintenance. Or can the local mechanic handle the job just fine? Do people buy used cars that has not been maintained by benz dealers.

Regards

Logic7

Is the prices in australia that high then?
My hopefully future car is demo car from local benz dealer and i find it rather expensive then a good deal. Its only a 2liter :s.

My question about the c or e class is more in terms o reliability. Since i read somewhere that every brand has models that are destined to doom.

Regards.

pl626

I would always pick the "E" over the "C", there's just more room. I wouldn't worry too much about the Mercedes electrics, I've had 3 generations of the E-class, starting with the W210. The first two I drove for more than 6 years each. Never had any issues with the electrics. My Land Rover Ranger Rover Classic, that's a different issue, but as Jeremy Clarkson put it, "the worlds most unreliable car is actually the world's most reliable car...' (that may be paraphrased).

What's more important is low mileage & original warranty still active. CPO doesn't really mean a lot, but record of service history is important. If there's no record, that's a red flag. Dealer-maintained isn't critical, but it can show regular maintenance. Regular maintenance from a reputable service provider, dealer or independent, is important. Always do a pre-purchase inspection from a reputable third-party. It may cost a bit up-front, but it can protect you from a money-pit down the road...

DFWdude

Glad you ran away from the RR. Just as expensive as any MB, if not more. And Discovery fuel mileage is the pits (8-10 mpg). I'm somewhat surprised they have not been legislated out of existance in Green Europe.

Again, the W213 forum is where you will find more info/discussion on the smaller displacement engines. With few exceptions, the W212 was built with 3.5L or 5.5L V6s

My lease return car is not CPO... opinions vary, but CPO is not a requirement if the car has everything you want You can pay for a pre-purchase inspection to identify anything that needs to be fixed (under warranty) and save thousands below a dealer CPO that does the same inspection.

As for repair places, in Europe you probably have 10 non-dealer car care shops for every one here in the US. "Maintained by Benz dealer" here in the US only means that the owner doesn't mind paying 8-10 times more than the market rate for a simple oil change. As mentioned above, the W212 is out of production, and the members here are DIYers not afraid of getting their hands dirty for most normal repairs.

pl626

LOL! And those of us with old Landies are mechanics by necessity; as the saying goes, "Land Rover-Making mechanics of owners since 1948"...

DFWdude

Ah, so it's good to hear an actual Land Rover owner back me up. Back in the day, I somehow didn't mind adjusting the breaker point ignition on my Fords, Plymouths, etc, every 3,000 miles, without fail. It was expected then.

Today, fuel injection, solid state ignitions -- and all the rest -- have made cars relatively care free. We often forget about the good ole days. I'm reminded every time I watch a Mecum or Barrett-Jackson car auction.

But running the RR to the gas station every week for 25 gallons of premium fuel sounds so 1970's to me. I drove a 1963 Ford Galaxy 500 that got better gas mileage than a RR does today, or so the neighbor who has one tells me. 'Course, the '63 Ford could not climb rocks like the RR... if that's really important. (Not)

pl626

ROFL...Funny thing is, after sitting on my driveway for a decade, I finally decided to do something about the RRC. Once she got a new motor and everything else was cleaned up, I couldn't stop driving her, even around town. I stopped driving my W211, and eventually sold it to my friend. Everything was fine until the RRC died on me going through a busy intersection. Needless to say, she's sitting on my driveway again, and my daily driver is another E-class. However, I will eventually get the RRC back on the road, I just haven't been motivated to deal with it.

Meanwhile, the E-class has been great and I've been able to go topless even when the outdoor temp was below 40.

dlafever

Not to steer you away from a Benz, but if reliability is your primary concern (sounds like you might not be a DIY owner), you might consider a Honda or Toyota. The Benz is an amazingly reliable car when maintained properly, but you have to be thoughtful about the maintenance. Much like a nice pair of shoes, you don't want to neglect them if you want them to last a while. A pair of Crocs however ...

DaleB

Perfect analogy. Ugly as hell, you'll hate the fact that you even own them, and they'll last far too long. Only difference is, nobody will buy your worn-out Crocs.

kajtek1

Only few AU members here, but on Ford Truck forum, I read how they have to pay almost 3 times what we pay for the vehicles.
Engine size? Bare in mind that in US taxes and registration is the same for 2 liter and the same for 6 l engine in the same car, while younger owners tend to be so-called "power freaks".
They tend to 'Not to care" about the fact, that having low speed limits, the car will smaller engine will get to the end of long trip faster simply becouse of avoiding some pits stops big guys will have to make. How much time acceleration can save you, on freeway driving limited to 70 mph =112 kph.
Coming to reliability, MB are one of the most reliable cars on the road. Beside some models who had manufacturing glitches (like poor quality balance shafts) they do last.
C class theoretically will give you better reliability as it will not have options that E class has. For example you can't have Cruise Control failure on car who doesn't have it.
Same way S class drop values like crazy becouse so much technology can cost a lot to upkeep when it ages.
So if you are in size who fits into C and don't care about the gadgets E can offer, - by all means go for it. You save money on purchase price, you save money on fuel and you save money on maintenance.

DFWdude

Gotta chime in here. My 2001 C-Class has exactly the same cruise control that any E-Class has. You can thank the 2001 C-Class for introducing the side mirror-mounted turn signals that ALL MBs have today. Not to mention that my 18 y-o C-Class has a computerized oil level monitoring system (no need to play with a dipstick). It also has a computerized oil quality analysis system that works very well -- to this day without failure... something today's E-Class cars do not have at all.

As I wrote before, the C-Class is every bit as good and well equipped as the E-Class. The only significant difference is size. And on that subject... the W213 E-300 loaner I drove recently seemed an inch or two narrower in the cabin interior than the older W212. Maybe the W214 E-Class will retreat to C-Class size when it appears in 2023? Current E-classes have already downsized to 4 cylinder motors in its primary market (Europe)

pl626

The four-banger is the base model E in the States as well...The C is a great vehicle, but it's too narrow for my liking. The Tesla monitor is another gripe I have, but for that matter, the long flat screen in the current E is also not to my liking either. I did see somewhere that you could get an analog IC in the E, which makes the proportions of the wide center screen more palatable to me.

To the OP, both being the same price, and if size isn't an issue, go with the one that's in the best condition and take care of it, i.e., follow the prescribed maintenance schedule. If maintenance costs are an issue, go with an Toyata or Honda, as previously mentioned.

kajtek1

I had oil level reading and oil CONTAMINATION sensor on "cheap" ML320 manufactured in 1997.
There oil quality sensor was a myth and in last years MB got rid of it IMHO in a fear some US lawyer might start class action suit over it.
So my 2014 MB are back to solid dipstick, although I can read oil volume in hidden features.
Than ML did not have lighted floors, no computerized AC control and I don't even remember how many option it lack comparing to the same year E class.
Never own C, but I assume it is comparable to ML in primitive options
Not that being primitive has to be bad thing, That is why I say C class can offer better reliability.
CC was just a sample as trying to rent a car couple years ago, I choose US-build upgrade, who still come with no CC. That can get annoying on 800 miles trip.

DFWdude

The MLs were/are bult in Alabama. C-Classes (until recently) were built in Sindelfingen, Germany. After 18 years, not a single squeak or rattle...

My 2001 C has the same dual-zone, computerized, climate-controlled AC that my 2016 E has. Current Cs (loaners I've driven) are the same, too.

I've recently driven both a 2019 C300 and E300 as dealer loaners. Can't tell a dime's worth of difference in features between them, other than interior dimensions.

Next time your dealer offers a C-Class loaner, perhaps you should sample one, just once. You might be surprised...

kajtek1

When options come in packages, so you can't tell what come standard on E and at special cost on C, the fact that I have no legroom in C still stands.
Even W124 was not having good legroom for me and I prized W210 for decent cabin size.
New models seem to come smaller and smaller.
Just yesterday passed MB on casino driveway. Took it for W213 as it is about the same size my W212 is and only on my way back noticed "S" badge on the trunk.
Can't curse in here ....

DFWdude

There are loads of MBs in my community... there are 6 on my block alone.

Without the badging on the trunk, I am often challenged to tell a new E from a C. Some of this is down to similar styling, But in truth, the C has grown larger, while the E has shrunk a bit. And I agree the newer S is also not very distinctive, either.

Don't really like the styling of these newer MBs (especially the rear styling), and I can't stand the tablet Comand unit and barn door console. So that's why I bought a used W212, instead... my first used car in 50-years.

Money Pit

Hi all,

Prices in Australia 2018 E220:

AUD $80000 TO $100000
EURO 46750 to 58500
USD $52500 to $65400

The thing that really stings is that I am paying nearly 3 times the price for parts in Australia than in the USA and freight costs from the US for heavy things like brake sets are insane :-(

I bought my 2011 E350 with 37000 kms on the clock 4 years ago AU$59000 - now worth about AU$35000. (I had my hip pocket nerve surgically removed during my ownership of a BMW 840ci)

One of my considerations when I bought my E series was it was made in Germany. The C's I were looking at were not.

I am still very happy with driving "The Armchair" and clock up very comfortable 25000 km's a year

DaleB

That's funny... I just recently swore off ever buying new again. Wife's Volvo was a 2017 model bought in late '17, still under warranty, less than 10K miles, like brand new -- except for that $15K or so off the sticker. I'll let someone else wear the nubs off the tires for that kind of discount.

DFWdude

Exactly... What convinced me...

Many years ago I struck up a Mercedes conversation with a man who owned a special order, 2004-5 CL55 AMG. He said he paid $140,000 for it new, and 2-1/2 years later, it had devalued to a mere $65,000. He was beyond pissed. Then I realized my lowly, pedestrian C320 -- also purchased new -- had not performed much better. I told myself then and there that I would never again buy a new "Premium" car brand (MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Aston Martin, or even a Lexus or Acura).

Ildi Mihoc

I just buy a car , the Mercedes Benz Amg , E220 , 2018, everithing is ok with the car , the problem what i want to ask you , when for example i'm waiting at the traffic lights, i can feel like a slowly vibration at my car , i went to a Mercedes Benz shop , they test it, but they didn t found any error , did this happend before to someone else?
what can be the reason? Thanks