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A Lucid Air Touring
I'm a long time die hard Mercedes fan but I couldn't even get my husband to test drive a Mercedes EV. The styling from the outside, the disco colors in the interior, the range, the price... a comparable EQE would have been 30K more than what we paid for the Lucid. The frunk is really convenient when parking in our garage spot because the trunk would be hard to get to and Mercedes doesn't even have a frunk. I was skeptical buying a car from a brand that hasn't been around for long but driving the Lucid put a smile on my face, so much fun and still comfy and luxurious! I love my GLS 450 but I can't wait for the Lucid Gravity to come out.
A Lucid Air Touring
I'm a long time die hard Mercedes fan but I couldn't even get my husband to test drive a Mercedes EV. The styling from the outside, the disco colors in the interior, the range, the price... a comparable EQE would have been 30K more than what we paid for the Lucid. The frunk is really convenient when parking in our garage spot because the trunk would be hard to get to and Mercedes doesn't even have a frunk. I was skeptical buying a car from a brand that hasn't been around for long but driving the Lucid put a smile on my face, so much fun and still comfy and luxurious! I love my GLS 450 but I can't wait for the Lucid Gravity to come out.
I agree, the lease offers right now are good. I was on the original waitlist for the Pure before the cars hit the market. I changed my mind because of their continuing software issues. No Android Auto, as it was promised quite a while ago really put me off as just an example. That said, I think the car looks awesome, I always notice them when I see one, and I am considering one when my EQE lease is up. It'll likely be that, or move to the EQS. Congrats!
Since I teased you guys with the Lucid I just wanted to give an update and let you know that we are purchasing a second EV now and it's a 2023 EQS 580 SUV!
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Might have traded in my EQE 500 SUV for a Gravity but it's the same ole "hurry up and wait" boolsheet. *sigh* I'd be happy to keep THEM informed on who, other than Lucid, will be getting my business though, if they'd like.
First adopters of the most recent electric vehicles(previous EVs have been around over a century) are running into the end of their battery life. New batteries can be $30,000.00+.
One of the biggest problems of reduced battery life, was supercharging. Evidently, supercharging significantly reduces battery life. Turns out Lithium Ions like to be charged low and slow, not hot and fast. So if you want your new battery to live longer, you are going to have to charge slower and longer. Really eats into convenience.
@MB2timer , a set of recent studies by Recurrent and other groups seem to show that current-gen thermal management is more than enough to prevent any meaningful degradation from fast charging. It seems that in most cases, the difference between mostly AC charging and mostly DC charging is within the statistical noise for almost all new EVs.
MB has a long warranty on their batteries. I personally am not worried. Most of the batteries are likely to outlive the car's chassis. And for any who have issues, the warranty rates them for at least 80% of their performance. We have around 15k miles on two EQEs and there is no noticeable degradation at all.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
I've slept through 99.999% of all my charging as it occurs at night when electricity is cheapest. It's certainly not as inconvenient as being accosted by a homeless guy begging for change right when I'm pulling out my CC to pay at the pump, like recently happened refueling my 2024 F-Pace SVR. He looked like he was going to try and mug me when I told him to get lost.
So, I suppose I was working under the assumption that a typical car today is driven say, 15k miles/year. Battery is warranted to 150k miles, so that's 10 years of use, fitting within the 8-12 years. (We slow-charge almost always unless we're on road trips, and keep battery at 80% or less in normal temperatures, and 70% or less when heat waves move in.) If your battery falls below 80% capacity before then, you get a new battery from MB. The realities are that your battery will last a lot longer than this if properly built and you don't leave your car at 100% charge for weeks in hot weather.
However, I think there are some considerations about 150k+ miles on a car like this, as well as eventual battery replacement costs if the car runs that long. Extrapolating to 12 years, you're looking at 180k+ miles on the chassis. I'd argue that there are likely relatively few, say, modern E-class variants (W213) that people will keep to 180k miles. Modern MB cars are certainly reliable. My W213 was completely trouble-free while I had it, and it was more reliable than my W212. Despite this, people have been arguing about durability. Cars recently are more cost-conscious, and are definitely less repairable given how much is added to a combustion engine to eke out more efficiency and power. In contrast, my 30-year-old W124 rolling restoration car is durable but not reliable. It has almost 150k miles, and though it starts every single time I've asked it to in the last 5 years I've had it, I wouldn't be super comfortable about some leak not happening on a cross-country trip. Now think about a 10-year-old modern car in need of significant replacement of wear-and-tear items, and the repair bill doesn't feel comfortable to think about.
Of course, EVs are much easier to take care of and maintain, and I think the solid-state nature of the cars will definitely help. But going back to a hypothetical 150k mile W213, let's say it needs a new engine. New engines for a 213, like one of the electrified V6 engines, also goes for over $30k. Nobody in their (hopefully) right minds would source a new engine for a 150k-mile car. I'd also argue that by the time the V295 and X294s are old enough where a battery is an end-user cost consideration, there will be many aftermarket or remanufactured packs available, just like used or rebuilt engines are available for modern vehicles in that mileage category. Also, keep in mind that many packs may go out of spec because of a single pouch cell or module. Those can be (carefully) swapped and rehabilitated if a customer doesn't care to say, get 100% capacity back. And lastly, the degradation is quite slow after the initial 1-2% drop in the first year or two. Again, I haven't seen any indication that I have to charge sooner or more frequently at all, so I'm quite happy with how BMS and current battery technology is working.
All in all, I think the batteries will last and be performant for a very long time, perhaps longer than many would keep an equivalent combustion vehicle of the same type. Hope that clarifies my thinking a bit.
@bytemaster0 A reasonable outlook. I am looking forward to more than 10 years of use with my EQE. I have not found any metrics in the car or Mercedes me to provide information on battery capacity, and would be surprised if this was presented on the service report by the dealership. An obvious drop in range would be an indication, but not a quantifiable measurement. Is there a stated way that it is measured?
Since I teased you guys with the Lucid I just wanted to give an update and let you know that we are purchasing a second EV now and it's a 2023 EQS 580 SUV!
It'll be nice to hear your driving experience of both. The other day I saw a used Lucid 2023 with 500 miles for $57k. It was very tempting.
2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Lithium prices have come way down:
Since November 2022, the average price of battery-grade lithium carbonate in China plunged from $84,500 per metric ton to $18,630, or about a 78% decline.
The only thing making battery replacement cost prohibitive is Biden's anti-China tariffs. I guess he just doesn't car about the planet warming, the ice caps melting and all the polar bears drowning.
I'm sure that an MB tech with an online SDS can see the BMS's stated capacity, which should make it pretty easy to figure out. I have an SDS but no login code, and as EQEs all require online service accounts, I can't talk to the car. Mostly I'm going by reported battery percentage after a known-length, consistent drive with a representative Wh/mi figure. It's been pretty much exactly the same since last year. But even a 1-2% degradation wouldn't be immediately obvious in that case either. These cars have plenty of range, and as infrastructure seems to grow exponentially (including recent news about Supercharger access and more MB charging locations and the forthcoming Ionna network), degradation doesn't seem like a major concern if it's not high.
Edit: I perform the manufacturer-suggested overnight "park below 20% once every 6 months" routine so that the BMS can more accurate gauge full pack capacity, this may help in keeping accurate range figures.
Last edited by bytemaster0; 06-25-2024 at 10:49 AM.
My son works for Lucid, so thank you for that purchase. They are pretty good cars, and I was at the point of buy one as my EQE kept getting delayed. However, I called the dealership one last time to get an update on my order and found that it had arrived the day before. (l have not been happy about the lack of information from the dealership on orders and order status, and gave feedback to Mercedes on that point. The dealership gave me some free extras to make up for it and get me to change my survey response.)
As far as how long Lucid will be around - they are backed by a Saudi investment fund with essentially unlimited financing available. No concern there.
The only thing making battery replacement cost prohibitive is Biden's anti-China tariffs. I guess he just doesn't car about the planet warming, the ice caps melting and all the polar bears drowning.
The tariff is on EVs as a whole, not on the battery components. Part of a decades long dispute by many countries with China's continuing flouting of WTO rules for fair trade. It difficult for US manufacturers to compete with "companies" that have received US$250 billion dollars of subsidies for EV manufacturing (China considers EVs and related technologies a strategic sector). China still claims to be a developing country despite having long since become a developed country under WTO rules.
A little late to the party here, but I got a chance to sit (but not drive) in a Lucid, and let me say that I was very impressed. The physical packaging is incredible with the amount of space the interior provides. The design inside is beautiful along with multiple colors and textures that fit together so well. This is a modern luxury car first, EV second. The exterior design also looks very sleek in person, and the nuances like the trunk opening are cool as well.
Overall, a good buy, I hope they stay in business as I may look at purchasing one one day.
I wanted to love the Lucid so badly. So much so that I just knew for months on end that it would be my next car. Then I finally got a chance to go for a long test drive in the Grand Touring, and I absolutely hated it. The motor whine was loud. There was no HUD. My 10yr old could hardly see out of the back windows and complained about how her knees sat higher than her hips in the back. I think it’s a gorgeous car though. The inside was cavernous, and there were tons of cargo space. On the flip-side, I ended up with an AMG EQE SUV. I think it’s the most hideous looking car from the outside and the cargo space definitely is lacking. But I’m in love with how it drives (other than some braking quirks) as well as the interior design and MBUX system. I’m also getting a lot more distance out of a charge than the EPA estimate.
All in all, there are trade-offs to be had with every car and it’s nice that we have choices to suit our individual tastes and needs. I am interested to see what improvements are made with the Gravity though!
04-19-2024, 08:06 PM
