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I'm driving a 2024 C300e (with around 1000 miles), and when accelerating in EV mode (30% pedal steady) I feel what I may describe as the gearbox shifting gears when passing around 40 km/h and around 60 km/h. The engine torque goes monumentally to zero (also consumption in kWh drops to zero) and occasionally a jolt is experienced.
Does the c300e uses shifts gears in fully EV mode (whiteout switching to petrol) or is this any kind of malfunction and should take it to the dealer?
I’ve experienced apparent gear changes too, mostly when slowing down. I believe that the electric motor is located in the gearbox (although I might be wrong). I guess the car has to be ready to engage ICE power whenever you floor the throttle and so maintains a gear appropriate for your road speed.
@mikejluk Thanks a lot for your feedback (good to know I'm not the only one feeling it)
Yes, AFAIK the electric motor is located in the gearbox (check the diagram at https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...nzeqpower.html ), and I also feel the gear shifts while slowing down, but it gets quite jerky ( around 20% of the times) when accelerating (mainly when passing the 40 km/h mark), and almost not notable at higher speeds (but with the power/torque indicator showing an obvious short fall in power).
I questioned the vendor, who told me that in EV mode the transmission operates at a single speed. That makes sense for electric motors (due to the availability of high torque across a large range of RPMs, but I also searched around and there are some good reasons to have an hybrid using the gearbox as a normal ICE, such as:
- Wear and Tear: Regularly using a complex gearbox like a 9-speed in a fixed gear mode could also lead to uneven wear and tear on the gearbox components. This could increase maintenance costs and reduce the overall reliability of the vehicle;
- Providing the same user experience in EV mode and in ICE mode, making a PHEV feel like an tradition ICE vehicle.
But I found no specific technical data or document describing how the C300e gearbox works.. so I would like to have the feedback from fellow drivers
It is a P2 hybrid meaning that the e motor is between output shaft of engine and input shaft of transmission.
So it uses all 9 gears in electric mode since it's an traditional automatic gearbox.
Some other manufactuters like Volvo use a double clutch transmission and can have the e machine on every other gear, 2-4-6 and reverse.
It is a P2 hybrid meaning that the e motor is between output shaft of engine and input shaft of transmission.
So it uses all 9 gears in electric mode since it's an traditional automatic gearbox.
Some other manufactuters like Volvo use a double clutch transmission and can have the e machine on every other gear, 2-4-6 and reverse.
Yes, the electric motor is between the ICE and the traditional part of the 9Gt transmission (before the torque converter).
Given that electric motors usually have a large range of RPMs at mostly constant torque, it could in theory use a single gear (out of the 9) and not shifting at all. The downsides I can see for that are:
- it would make the input part of the transmission to rotate at much higher speeds, and that would only happen for that given gear (probably the one with 1:1 ratio), that would result in a uneven wear of pieces involved in that gear (assuming the input side would cope well with the high rotation).
- when shifting from EV mode to ICE, (for example at 70mph) the input part of the transmission would need to be slowed down considerably to the ICE level of RPMs, while at the same time shifting to the correct gear.. that could be challenging.
So, it makes sense, although I have found on reference so far to this mode of operation.
Yes, the electric motor is between the ICE and the traditional part of the 9Gt transmission (before the torque converter).
Given that electric motors usually have a large range of RPMs at mostly constant torque, it could in theory use a single gear (out of the 9) and not shifting at all. The downsides I can see for that are:
- it would make the input part of the transmission to rotate at much higher speeds, and that would only happen for that given gear (probably the one with 1:1 ratio), that would result in a uneven wear of pieces involved in that gear (assuming the input side would cope well with the high rotation).
- when shifting from EV mode to ICE, (for example at 70mph) the input part of the transmission would need to be slowed down considerably to the ICE level of RPMs, while at the same time shifting to the correct gear.. that could be challenging.
So, it makes sense, although I have found on reference so far to this mode of operation.
I think you mixed up your c300e with regular c300. the motor between ICE and 9G tronic is ISG/Integrated starter generator used on regular C 300. The actual Electric motor is integrated into the rear diff looking something like this. I am not exactly sure if the c300e still have ISG, but if it does it does not generate drive torque.
W206 C300e AMG Line Premium Plus with driver assistance package
Originally Posted by C300eOwner
@mikejluk Thanks a lot for your feedback (good to know I'm not the only one feeling it)
Yes, AFAIK the electric motor is located in the gearbox (check the diagram at https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...nzeqpower.html ), and I also feel the gear shifts while slowing down, but it gets quite jerky ( around 20% of the times) when accelerating (mainly when passing the 40 km/h mark), and almost not notable at higher speeds (but with the power/torque indicator showing an obvious short fall in power).
I don’t think that website is referring to the W206. It is quite old and the hybrid battery capacities are way too low.
I think you mixed up your c300e with regular c300. the motor between ICE and 9G tronic is ISG/Integrated starter generator used on regular C 300. The actual Electric motor is integrated into the rear diff looking something like this. I am not exactly sure if the c300e still have ISG, but if it does it does not generate drive torque.
It's not a P3 hybrid, It's a P2. See below MB W206 C300e driveline
It's not a P3 hybrid, It's a P2. See below MB W206 C300e driveline
Ok, so I ended up looking through some documentation I have access to. Unfortunately it was not very clear about what is the actual implementation in c300e. It listed two diagram applicable to c300e and engine M254. Though it also cross-listed both diagram to be applicable to M139(C63s and C43). So both of the diagram is mislabeld somehow.
Config 1: the EV motor is integarted into the transmission and between ICE and 9G, a P2 hybrid setup, basically the same as regular C300's ISG except rated for higher voltage and torque/power
Config 2: EV motor on rear axle, p4 hybrid setup, the setup I know for sure C63 uses.
I am leaning towards you guys are right and it is basically an ISG P2 hybrid.
Unfortunately I do not have a C300e to verify, but to distinguish which setup is actually used just look in the engine compartment and check if a BSG(belt driven starter-alternator) is present or a V-belt at all, if there is one, then c300e's got config 2, if none is present, then it's got config 1.
One Transmission control unit software flow documentation I can find about config 1(but unfortunately cannot post), indicate that the transmission will shift through regular gears in pure EV mode, but at different shift point then it is in Hybrid or ICE mode. AND It have additional set of clutch that can and will engage the EV motor the the full transmission then drive line in pure EV mode as if the EV motor is the ICE engine under select scnerios(one of which is when regen braking can take advantage of gearbox) then disengage when those conditions are no longer met. It may also disengage EV motor from the driveline and have the driveline engaged to the transmission. All of the above two operations sound to me will feel terribly similar to a downshift. Regen through gearbox can be disabled by coding the transmission computer, other safety related operations cannot, but I doubt any dealer would do it for you.
Unfortunately I do not have a C300e to verify, but to distinguish which setup is actually used just look in the engine compartment and check if a BSG(belt driven starter-alternator) is present or a V-belt at all, if there is one, then c300e's got config 2, if none is present, then it's got config 1.
07-02-2024, 03:49 PM
