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Front Inner Tire Wear, What Toe setting do you use for good tire wear?
2014 E63 S Wagon, stock stock.
Killed again front inner edge on tires.
If you improved and/or cured your inner edge front tire war, can you please share toe setting you use on front, and out of curiosity on rear?
Thank you.
P.S. on other AWD performance cars, I use 0 front and rear TOE, because,
As car rolls down the road, front wheels are pushed toward Toe-out position by the road-pressure
Driven wheels pull, and when they pull they toe-in.
The two close to cancel out, so setting 0 toe seems to work well.
On RWD cars front should be toed -in a bit, since these cars just need to balance out the road-pressure against tires, pushing them into toe-out position.
Need proper alignment and current measurements to know where you stand.
NOte Camber is not really adjustable from factory.
Hundreds of threads on here about camber adjustment and inside edge tire wear for every MB car/SUV.
2014 E63 S Wagon, stock stock.
Killed again front inner edge on tires.
If you improved and/or cured your inner edge front tire war, can you please share toe setting you use on front, and out of curiosity on rear?
Thank you.
P.S. on other AWD performance cars, I use 0 front and rear TOE, because,
As car rolls down the road, front wheels are pushed toward Toe-out position by the road-pressure
Driven wheels pull, and when they pull they toe-in.
The two close to cancel out, so setting 0 toe seems to work well.
On RWD cars front should be toed -in a bit, since these cars just need to balance out the road-pressure against tires, pushing them into toe-out position.
2014 E63 S Wagon, stock stock.
Killed again front inner edge on tires.
If you improved and/or cured your inner edge front tire war, can you please share toe setting you use on front, and out of curiosity on rear?
Thank you.
P.S. on other AWD performance cars, I use 0 front and rear TOE, because,
As car rolls down the road, front wheels are pushed toward Toe-out position by the road-pressure
Driven wheels pull, and when they pull they toe-in.
The two close to cancel out, so setting 0 toe seems to work well.
On RWD cars front should be toed -in a bit, since these cars just need to balance out the road-pressure against tires, pushing them into toe-out position.
these cars are notorious for that front and tire wear.
Mine are extreme example of Michelin PS4S with 20,000 miles that I put on in 2020.
I haven’t tracked the car in like three years and honestly just completely forgot how high the mileage got on these until slow leak finally happened a couple weeks ago which I’m lucky the tire didn’t just blow out considering how bad it’s worn
Thank you all for your replays and interest to help.
Car is stock, as stated, aligned to factory specs, before alignment, and after still.
If you have mitigated your tire wear by some toe setting, and get 30-40K miles out of the fronts, what Toe do you run?
There is nothing to see here, it is all within specs,
I took out a bit of toe in.
As I said, I have and have had AWD cars, and align them to 0 toe always, on occasion Toe Out, for better turn in.
And they are all 50/50 drive, so they put "some power" through the front, E63 Wagon is 33/66 or something like that- hence it puts a lot less power through the front. And it is 50% heavier then the AWD cars I drive with 0 toe. That weight may impact toe - having more road resistance etc.
If you have good tire wear, please share your toe settings.
Camber is what it is, it won't change, and it has been proven that camber is not main culprit in the inner edge wear, I run -3.5 on AWD cars with 0 toe and the tires wear well.
Camber can get messed up if and fixed depending on how you tighten the 2 strut bolts.
Also, you can try crash bolts for 0.3 degrees less camber or Kmac for ~2.0 degrees of adjustment.
My car was lowered 2" with and i was at -1.3 camber and zero toe.
No bad tire wear
How many miles do you have on your tires in that config? 4,000 isn't going to do it. Some folks on here don't put that many miles on their cars.
I had that type of inner wear, though my right front has excessive front right negative camber. I can't figure out what it is though I may try making a strut adjustment to reset it for less camber. Also something in my front end makes a popping noise in certain scenarios (have heard it under hard braking, but also when turning the steering wheel at low speeds). I can't find a single thing wrong with anything and neither could the alignment guy.
Back on alignment theory, negative camber is going to be a compromise between even tire wear and the way you drive the car. A normal car alignment will wear well under regular, highway use. But if you drove it hard it would chew up the outside of the tires since excessive load will be taken up by the outer tread under cornering. That's why we use negative camber, to adjust the contact patch under cornering loads. However, if you adjust to this more performance alignment, then tire wear during mundane driving circumstances will chew up the inside tread. Also, with negative camber, the FASTEST way to chew up the inner tread is to use toe-out. From what I have studied, some toe-in can help spread the load across the tread when you have negative camber. If you think about the mechanics of the tire, it makes sense. I'm a little surprised and skeptical that zero toe is the best for bad inner wear.
I think I have a few tips that may help bring wear closer to
I am no wheel alignment specialist but our simple W212 front suspension is easy to understand
McPherson setup... no wishbone!
The alignment numbers hardly reflect the reality of the tires wear - Numbers look ok... so why so bad??
What's chewing the inner edge in normal non-track driving is POOR DYNAMIC GEOMETRY.
Obviously the toe angle moves around much more than the hot quiet/soft tires care for.
Most of the contact forces are concentrated where the wear is!! You have a nice wide tire mostly used over 1Inch
The outcome is seriously unstable handling plus poor mushy brakes stressing 1In. of rubber.
At the end of the day every angle needs to be tightly guided by
both control arms with
lower BJ plus strut bushing.
Wheel bearing needs to be adjusted and
steering rack tie rods
stabilizer links + bars
Guess what else directly affects dynamic geometry??
It's ride height vs. rack height as follows:
> Tie-rod angle vs. neutral spindle:
We need to realize the chassis ride height directly interact with the front toe to chew tire edge.
When the suspension travels up, the outer tie rod describes an arc of circle. Thats the bad news as neutral bias becomes rapidly negative.
The factory stock chassis design has the optimal toe near neutral with a tiny bias towards stability (toed-in).
When the old springs sag,
when weight is loaded with 4x passengers,
when cornering hard
when braking,
when 4Matic is lowered
...
The front axle becomes toed-in way too far from near zero total angle.
The best toe adjustment is for the average driving position near neutral angle.
When chassis is lowered steering rack needs to be raised to keep bias around neutral zero. Then with a super small suspension travel, the toe is less impacted regardless of it being away from factory neutral location.
Chassis "Ride height" is like engine "AF mixture" the absolute best setting is neutral. Special settings only serve best fewer restrictive cases.
Mercedes designed the 2014 E63 as ultimate expression of their engineering ability. I have to assume that they dialed in the steering rack height with respect to upright tie-rod arms.
I do agree with you that all the many components participate in "dynamic toe",
The toe is measured on alignment rack, with all the weight on the tire, so at least most of the mass is already acting on the suspension.
I am sure that the acceleration, but especially hard cornering and hard braking, move toe-measurement.
For now I won't do any changes, as I am near-zero TOE as Kenny recommended. I will try next set of tires to see "where it goes".
I will carefully review the condition of the bushings, and see what else could be installed as replacement that may "limit" movement/toe change, but importantly without significant NVH impact. No Poly.
yes we all agree we want a near zero static but the tire wear is showing that's not where it is dynamically
Consider how each arm dynamic travel affect the neutral toe... Our corrective actions need to help keep spindle at its default position most of the time or as much as possible.
I think the big strut spring and especially the soft stabilizer torsion spring are in this for something.
If your chassis is boucing around a lot, lets make that motion stop:
stab links F+R
stabilizer torsion bar spring itself
the basic usuals are :
Front caster control arm
(Camber arm) + ball joint
Strut top bushing!
The shocks are the big-ticket sell for suspension but the Mercedes soft torsion bar is an unsung VIP hero that does a lot to keep spindle steady at neutral spot.
Once it's way too soft it helps to overheat the oil inside the strut that then can't do much dampening with hot lower viscosity hydraulic oil. The strut oil react negatively to heat.
Have you noticed your car bounces less when cold than when shocks got hot ??
Today, 01:29 AM
