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I see this thread was created about 6 years ago. It has about a 3 year gap from 2014 then kicks up again. My reason for reading it is I'm a prospective buyer of a 2007-2008 SL55. This thread along with other publications express an issue with ABC from 2003 up R230 cars however I don't see this on later ones 2007 up. Is this due to improvements in the system? Also When the ABC is working correctly wouldn't be better than coil over suspension? I guess what I'm getting at is if I had this car I'm sure not going to the dealer for repairs I maintain 3 R129's in new condition and if I went to Mercedes for repairs I'd have as much as the sticker was in them by now. So is this conversion thing really a dodge from dealer expensive repairs for those who are not inclined DIY? I think just about anything it could need can be had on eBay now days. As a last note it seems to downgrade a 130k+ car that was a jewel off the showroom floor till the warranty ran out is something I'd have to really give thought to.
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Fathertime, I think a lot of the feasibility of the conversion process is determined by how skilled a DIYer is or if they can easily afford to pay a trusted and experienced M-B mechanic to do it. And as you've alluded to, it might be cheaper in the long run to maintain the ABC system by flushing the system at certain intervals, such as every 25K or time period, etc. I have an '05 500 SL, but I can afford to maintain rather than convert. You also might want to drive a similar model that's already been converted to judge the ride for yourself. Good luck.
__________________________________________________ _________________________ "Back to the wall goes Berra, it is...over the fence, homerun, the Pirates win!!" |
Originally Posted by FATHERTIME
(Post 7849356)
I see this thread was created about 16 years ago. It has about a 3 year gap from 2014 then kicks up again. My reason for reading it is I'm a prospective buyer of a 2007-2008 SL55. This thread along with other publications express an issue with ABC from 2003 up R230 cars however I don't see this on later ones 2007 up. Is this due to improvements in the system? Also When the ABC is working correctly wouldn't be better than coil over suspension? I guess what I'm getting at is if I had this car I'm sure not going to the dealer for repairs I maintain 3 R129's in new condition and if I went to Mercedes for repairs I'd have as much as the sticker was in them by now. So is this conversion thing really a dodge from dealer expensive repairs for those who are not inclined DIY? I think just about anything it could need can be had on eBay now days. As a last note it seems to downgrade a 130k+ car that was a jewel off the showroom floor till the warranty ran out is something I'd have to really give thought to.
I have thought the same thing, why would anyone ruin this car by swapping to coilovers?? hell no! and yes, suspension is not that big an issue if you are a DIY'r |
Originally Posted by mguerrero
(Post 7849957)
I have thought the same thing, why would anyone ruin this car by swapping to coilovers?? hell no! and yes, suspension is not that big an issue if you are a DIY'r
Both setups have their advantages depending on the owner's driving style. If your priority is maximum comfort then stick with the stock suspension. However if you like to drive the car hard and are willing to forego a little bit of comfort, the improved handling and road feedback with coilovers will be best. There is no right or wrong, it is simply a personal choice as to which style of driving you prefer |
Originally Posted by Batman600
(Post 7850415)
Converting to a coilover setup does not ruin the car as you suggest, improved handling and road feedback with coilovers will be best.
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Originally Posted by Batman600
(Post 7850415)
Converting to a coilover setup does not ruin the car as you suggest, it changes it into a different type of car. Rather than a Grande tourer it becomes more of a sports car.
Both setups have their advantages depending on the owner's driving style. If your priority is maximum comfort then stick with the stock suspension. However if you like to drive the car hard and are willing to forego a little bit of comfort, the improved handling and road feedback with coilovers will be best. There is no right or wrong, it is simply a personal choice as to which style of driving you prefer However now days with all the parts readily available from OEM suppliers unlike early on when we would have to buy parts from the dealer at terrible high prices and crazy labor costs, it aint to hard to keep the car in factory original condition and more valuable. I know about this cause I keep my 99 SL600 with ADSll like new (case in point dealer price today for R129 ADS pump $1800.00, C&M Hydraulics $375.00) so 18 years ago I'd need to take a second on the house to afford repairs on it. Im sure 15 years ago some would have got a 3k kit for a R230 instead of giving the dealers10k so they could keep the car. So I think today the upkeep on a SL55 would not be to far away from a conversion price I'm speaking of course of the average owner that pays for repairs at an independent shop. |
Originally Posted by mguerrero
(Post 7850717)
I can;t stop laughing at this comment
Perhaps you can give us some substantiation regarding your views? Have you have driven both ABC and coilover equipped SLs? |
Originally Posted by Batman600
(Post 7850415)
...the improved handling and road feedback with coilovers will be best.
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Originally Posted by bobterry99
(Post 7851471)
I'm skeptical that an aftermarket coil-over suspension can significantly improve handling over ABC. Here's food for thought: "Why Stiff Suspensions Have Less Grip". From the article: "One of the most common aftermarket upgrades in the automotive world is a set of coilovers, yet it’s also one of the most misunderstood."
All of AMG's high performance cars e.g. SL65 Black, SLS, GT, C63, A45 etc have coilovers and sway bars. I think that speaks for itself. You are correct that a badly setup coilover suspension can be too stiff and cause the car to have less grip. However the likes of KW do huge amounts of on car testing to ensure that their dampers and spring rates are correct for the car. Again I would raise the point that there is no right or wrong between ABC and coilovers. Both will perform perfectly well for 90% of driving conditions. It is purely personal choice as to how you like your car set up. |
Should anyone happen to be in The Netherlands, and out in the sticks where we live, you’d be most welcome to take an OEM non-ABC R230 for a spin.
I’m talking SL350 of course, so you can taste the 3.7 M112 engine while you’re at it. Based on reciprocity of course - sometimes I wonder how an SL500/600 would have coped with a certain stretch of road, and I might be around where you guys live, one day. |
ABC vs. Coilovers
I’ve had both the misfortune and fortune of a failed abc suspension on a CL500, a CL55 and two SL500s. I’ve converted the CL500 to Strutmaster. And I converted the CL55 to YellowSpeed Racing adjustable coilovers. I decided to repair one of the SL500s and retain the ABC suspension. The other SL500 is in process of the conversion. I can personally attest that ABC is more responsive and comfortable to uneven road conditions under high speeds and maneuvers. But obviously less reliable with age. I’ve experienced both the expense and headache of maintaining a well designed, yet deteriorating system. The fear and anxiety that comes with every out of town trip or cruise around the city. Versus the confidence that comes with driving a beautiful automobile without seeing leaks or answering onlookers’ questions about why your car lifts up and down while idling for no reason. Of course there’s a reason. But will the average person care to understand why contamination and worn fluid contributes to seals and O-rings incapable of properly closing valve blocks? No. Or how the $1300 tandem pump is no longer maintaining proper pressure? Or why at any given moment, this $80k luxury car can bust a line while miles away from your house. Leading to a collapsed suspension and possible bent fenders because you tried to steer away from an accident? So it’s not about downgrading a luxury car. It’s about making it more reliable and drivable with confidence and reassurance. Isn’t that why we own a Mercedes anyways?
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I empathasize with this point, since what it mentions essentially happened to me eight years ago:
Originally Posted by llcoolbenz
(Post 7852293)
Or why at any given moment, this $80k luxury car can bust a line while miles away from your house.
That said, I don't know to what extent such anxiety is warranted; i.e., each time I drive off in my SL I don't have any sense at all of how likely I am to experience a debilitating ABC problem. However, I do suppose that if I were away from home for an extended period of time and were depending upon my car daily, then the fear of a problem would be unacceptable to me. What to do? The reason I choose to drive an R230 instead of another luxury car is ABC. In fact, I've been spoiled to such a degree that I am unable to enjoy time behind the wheel of any of the 129s I own with their inferior-performing suspensions. So substituting a conventional setup for ABC is not an option for me. Fortunately, I think there would be a satisfactory solution. I could replace each and every hose in the system and then have complete confidence in my '55's ability to complete a trip without an ABC failure. But that job would be dauntingly expensive. However, I suspect that if I were to survey hose failures through reading many years of forum posts I may discover that only a few hoses pose a significant risk. If that were the case, then proactively replacing just those hoses and a handful of o-rings would allay all my fears of ABC failure for reasonable cost and effort. Meanwhile, I do not depend on my car for daily transportation and rarely find myself far from home, so I have no worries... |
SL600 & SL350
Today I was handed an SL600, left on the photo, for a drive, for the fun of it and to compare it with my (black) SL350. I can’t tell in what technical condition the 600 was, it hadn’t run for weeks, but everything worked, including the accessories. Compared to mine, the car felt heavy and had a heavy bass tone to it. ABC kept me straight in sharp curves. Acceleration was fast, of course. A straightforward comparison: my car feels lighter, is a bit more agile when swirling through curves, definitely runs a LOT quieter at low speeds. The roads were too smooth to really feel ABC. Perhaps the 600 (Japan import, less than 50.000km/30k miles) could do with TLC for things that however didn’t become apparent to me. My car is 100% healthy. Although the V12 fascinates me, I never planned buying one and now I know I wouldn’t have had to bother. A relief, in a way...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3b55c0dd3.jpeg |
Originally Posted by Frederick NL
(Post 7853941)
Today I was handed an SL600, left on the photo, for a drive, for the fun of it and to compare it with my (black) SL350. I can’t tell in what technical condition the 600 was, it hadn’t run for weeks, but everything worked, including the accessories. Compared to mine, the car felt heavy and had a heavy bass tone to it. ABC kept me straight in sharp curves. Acceleration was fast, of course. A straightforward comparison: my car feels lighter, is a bit more agile when swirling through curves, definitely runs a LOT quieter at low speeds. The roads were too smooth to really feel ABC. Perhaps the 600 (Japan import, less than 50.000km/30k miles) could do with TLC for things that however didn’t become apparent to me. My car is 100% healthy. Although the V12 fascinates me, I never planned buying one and now I know I wouldn’t have had to bother. A relief, in a way...
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Thanks. I was referring to agility, not acceleration or stopping power. My impression was that the nose is significantly heavier. I had been looking forward to a sheer souvereign, no compromise ride, really. With unlimited resources, I’d probably still want a V12. But I now feel the 350 offers a very, very sensible alternative. As far as I can tell my ownership has nothing to do with that.
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Expected Life of Coil Over Shocks
Just bought a 2003 SL500 with about 75,000 miles. Had a pre-purchase inspection (Texas German Autohaus/Houston) and they confirmed that a "kit" had been installed to replace the ABC system. No info available from the seller as to when the conversion was done. The ride of the car is really bad. Very hard, feels like driving something with solid rubber tires. Suspect part of the problem is the low profile tires, which are pretty worn, installed on 18" AMG wheels. Plan to go back to the smaller wheels with new tires. If this was a normal car I would think the shocks are shot. Any ideas on expected mileage on the conversion and best way to check the current shocks ?
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Originally Posted by DRK1
(Post 7854383)
If this was a normal car I would think the shocks are shot. Any ideas on expected mileage on the conversion and best way to check the current shocks ?
I'll guess the conversion is very recent. The previous owner realized he made a serious mistake by not retaining ABC and put the car up for sale. Also, the mileage of 75,000 comports with my observation from reading forums that this is around the mileage where major ABC problems are often reported; specifically, pump failure. From my perspective your car is ruined. But we know from recent posts that apparently there may be someone who holds a completely different view. Maybe you should try to sell the car to someone like that by way of an eBay auction. |
Originally Posted by DRK1
(Post 7854383)
Just bought a 2003 SL500 with about 75,000 miles. Had a pre-purchase inspection (Texas German Autohaus/Houston) and they confirmed that a "kit" had been installed to replace the ABC system. No info available from the seller as to when the conversion was done. The ride of the car is really bad. Very hard, feels like driving something with solid rubber tires. Suspect part of the problem is the low profile tires, which are pretty worn, installed on 18" AMG wheels. Plan to go back to the smaller wheels with new tires. If this was a normal car I would think the shocks are shot. Any ideas on expected mileage on the conversion and best way to check the current shocks ?
It's no fun driving my smooth quiet lexus and then jumping in this car with such sh*tty ride quality. Can't wait to go back to ABC. I know what this car is supposed to feel and this isn't it |
Originally Posted by Sean@VVK
(Post 7756292)
It's about 8-12 hours of labor to do the conversion, and we currently offer an $800 strut trade-in program.
Both front and rear crossmembers need to be lowered about 6-8inches (not removed from car) in order to get the swaybars into their positions. The rear complete crossmember can be lowered on a transmission jack under the differential with nothing else removed other than the rear muffler boxes. There is enough flex in the driveshaft and parking brake cables to allow the room you need. With the crossmember lowered, this is a perfect time to remove the lower strut bolt in the lower control arm, and then access & remove the top strut bolts by removing the trunk liner. Then you can disconnect the hydraulic connector and remove each strut completely. There are several hydraulic lines located where your new swaybar needs to live so those will need to be loosened by the 10mm nuts and completely removed as well as the large module located in the cavity just forward of the Left Rear wheel. This module has 2lines which run to the fromt of the car and those lines can be left on the car after they are disconnected at bot ends and flushed with brake-clean and cleared with air. These 2 linrs only weigh maybe 3-4pounds and are very difficult to remove 100% At this point each VVK rear strut is a simple 2bolt upper installation and the large bottom bolt once the rear suspension is lifted back into place In front the engine must be suspended from above using an engine support bar https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...SABEgJo0fD_BwE Also available at HarborFreight. After securely suspending the engine (consider adding a backup support like a chain or screwjack to prevent the engine from going anywhere) you should start by removing the large single nut on the bottom of each front strut and use a large balljoint puller tool to pop this joint loose. It is literally a giant tapered balljoint Mercedes used to connect the strut bottom, and can take a real fight to release. Nest, disconnect the steering shaft at the rack (1 bolt), and disconnect the connector on the SPS solenoid (on rack near the steering input) and then I recommend lowering the crossmember with all control arms attached. You can remove it entirely for more working space, but it's not necessary and will require an alignment afterward. A fresh alignment is recommended if you lower the car anyway. Remove the ABC hydraulic lines which are in the way of the swaybar, and you can remove the entire ABC accumulator/valve system unit located forward of the Left Front wheel behind the splash guard. Two bolt holes are located on each frame rail right next to the cutout in the wheelwell splash guards where the swaybar passes through. Apply lock-tite to bolts, tighten swaybar mounts in place. RECOMMENDATION: At this point you can easily access the motor mounts on V8 cars and it's a good idea to replace them since they are about $100 and we've seen many completely worn out with low miles. They seem to deteriorate more with age than mileage. Fresh motor mounts also ensure proper clearance for the swaybar under the oil pan. You can now raise and reinstall crossmember, SPS plug and steering shaft, and then finally install the VVK front struts. After replacing your ABC pump with a Steering-only pump you can completely remove the remaining ABC lines, cooler (in front of radiator) and reservoir. Torque-check all bolts and re-install all 4 wheels, lower car to ground, and take for a short drive to allow suspension to settle before deciding on final ride height and adjusting to suit. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0f26705ca1.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c54a51f05d.jpg |
Originally Posted by Batman600
(Post 7850415)
Converting to a coilover setup does not ruin the car as you suggest, it changes it into a different type of car. Rather than a Grande tourer it becomes more of a sports car.
Both setups have their advantages depending on the owner's driving style. If your priority is maximum comfort then stick with the stock suspension. However if you like to drive the car hard and are willing to forego a little bit of comfort, the improved handling and road feedback with coilovers will be best. There is no right or wrong, it is simply a personal choice as to which style of driving you prefer Just keep in mind, cars with the P30 Performance Package "Nurburgring Tune" like my '06 SL55 have a "sports car" feel. The comfort setting is rather stiff compared to the sport setting of a non P30 car. It sport my P30 SL feels like a go cart and the ride is almost unbearable if you are used to the cushy ride of an regular ABC suspension tune. I have always said, the ABC is a big part of this car's engineering and I would rather sell my SL than convert it to a traditional coil over. It is elegant (and practical being able to raise the car to clear bumps or steep driveways....impressing car meet crowds too!) system and is worth maintaining. |
Originally Posted by bobterry99
(Post 7852394)
I empathasize with this point, since what it mentions essentially happened to me eight years ago:In my case the o-ring on the ABC pressure sensor had failed, and a major leak developed. So like yourself, I would feel some anxiety over the possibility of an ABC failure were I to make an out-of-town trip in my '03 SL55 with 105K miles.
That said, I don't know to what extent such anxiety is warranted; i.e., each time I drive off in my SL I don't have any sense at all of how likely I am to experience a debilitating ABC problem. However, I do suppose that if I were away from home for an extended period of time and were depending upon my car daily, then the fear of a problem would be unacceptable to me. What to do? The reason I choose to drive an R230 instead of another luxury car is ABC. In fact, I've been spoiled to such a degree that I am unable to enjoy time behind the wheel of any of the 129s I own with their inferior-performing suspensions. So substituting a conventional setup for ABC is not an option for me. Fortunately, I think there would be a satisfactory solution. I could replace each and every hose in the system and then have complete confidence in my '55's ability to complete a trip without an ABC failure. But that job would be dauntingly expensive. However, I suspect that if I were to survey hose failures through reading many years of forum posts I may discover that only a few hoses pose a significant risk. If that were the case, then proactively replacing just those hoses and a handful of o-rings would allay all my fears of ABC failure for reasonable cost and effort. Meanwhile, I do not depend on my car for daily transportation and rarely find myself far from home, so I have no worries... My SL55 P30 is my daily driver. I have put over 30K miles on her since buying in 2017. I made up my mind that she was a keeper and got rid of this ABC anxiety by replacing the entire system....shocks, valve blocks and all hoses/fittings to new. I could have bought a brand new Honda Civic with what I spent but, it was worth it to me. (I DYI'd most of the work). A few months later the system started doing the rodeo at freeway speeds. Guess what, I forgot to replace 2 of the many speed/ inertia sensors that are also important to the proper function of the ABC system. LOL I also put about $10K aside for all the systematic failures a 13 year old SL will have. Every month, there is a sensor, air hose, fuse, solenoid etc. that fails but, I'm prepared. |
Originally Posted by m5zealot
(Post 7889158)
My SL55 P30 is my daily driver. I have put over 30K miles on her since buying in 2017. I made up my mind that she was a keeper and got rid of this ABC anxiety by replacing the entire system....shocks, valve blocks and all hoses/fittings to new. I could have bought a brand new Honda Civic with what I spent but, it was worth it to me. (I DYI'd most of the work). A few months later the system started doing the rodeo at freeway speeds. Guess what, I forgot to replace 2 of the many speed/ inertia sensors that are also important to the proper function of the ABC system. LOL I also put about $10K aside for all the systematic failures a 13 year old SL will have. Every month, there is a sensor, air hose, fuse, solenoid etc. that fails but, I'm prepared.
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My ABC system was buggered, dampers leaked ,pump didnt lift the car square anyway so i took it all off , i want to use the car for the occasional sprint /hillclimb just for fun so set about taking it all off . These cars are quite cheap here, i got my SL55 AMG from salvage obscenely cheap !
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Originally Posted by mguerrero
(Post 7891831)
that often eh? I have had my CL55 for a while now and no issues yet - getting ready to do my first preventative flush
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I am in the process of doing the Strutmasters coilover conversion on my 2004 SL500. The kit is coming this week.
Could anyone provide me with the part number for the power steering pump replacement? This is the pump that will replace the tandem pump currently controlling the PS and ABC. I have searched for a part number but can't seem to find the answer. Regards! |
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