SL/R230: Growing intrest in the R230
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Growing intrest in the R230
Heya, new to the forums 
!
I got a urging sensation for a r230 after I got a blitz thought about an affordable v12 car I might like, but after scouring the internet, theres little to none(read only none) r230 out there built to trackspecs (weight saving, race seats or similar).
My record with cars has usually gone down the road of being more track oriented than luxury.
So I thought Il track down the forum with possibly the biggest experts(nerds? :p) and maybe they know of some track oriented ones.
I know about the black series and that bc coilovers have made a series for them, also those swaybars if you dont own a 350.
What type of steering geometry/Suspension are they using?
How reliable are the driveline?
How interchangeable are the parts? E.g brakes, diffs etc.
Alot of questions, hope you dont mind
/Rick
!I got a urging sensation for a r230 after I got a blitz thought about an affordable v12 car I might like, but after scouring the internet, theres little to none(read only none) r230 out there built to trackspecs (weight saving, race seats or similar).
My record with cars has usually gone down the road of being more track oriented than luxury.
So I thought Il track down the forum with possibly the biggest experts(nerds? :p) and maybe they know of some track oriented ones.
I know about the black series and that bc coilovers have made a series for them, also those swaybars if you dont own a 350.
What type of steering geometry/Suspension are they using?
How reliable are the driveline?
How interchangeable are the parts? E.g brakes, diffs etc.
Alot of questions, hope you dont mind
/Rick
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 992
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From: Tucson, AZ
'20 X5 M50i; '17 Ram 3500; Golf Cart; Bikes; Scooters
I know what you mean. They don't make cars with cubic inches anymore, so this is a dying breed. I too would love to have the V12, but the DIY work required for that engine kept me away.
Not to throw water on your fire, but this is a very heavy platform to start a track car from. Lots of pumps and wires and gizmo's that add weight. Difficult to yank out and still have an operating car unless you have a masters in electrical engineering.
The proper application of cubic dollars would fix that, but the result would not be the same as a welled cared for V12 R230. It might be easier to drop this V12 in any other car than make this a track car.
Go drive one. Take a few corners at speed. Stomp the brakes a few times. Then stop and check the gas gauge, tire wear and smoking brakes. It's fun, but goes through consumable parts rapidly.
Plus, the V12 is nose heavy, and even the SL55 might outrun it when it gets twisty. I know a Vette will. The V12 will win on the straight, and so will an S600.
The drive train is bulletproof. Almost no one can break it. I've tried. It will last a long time.
V12 Coil packs will cause you problems. So will the motor mounts, which require pulling the engine. Suspension bushings don't last long. ABC suspension would have to come off, and the results are mixed.
Aftermarket parts are few and costly, as it's a small market.
Maybe someone who has gone there can give you better advice than my experience. Me...I'd find a better platform before throwing a ton of money at this for a track car.
If you want the best GT for street use, this is an awesome car, and will impress you and your friends.
Best of luck in your decision.
Not to throw water on your fire, but this is a very heavy platform to start a track car from. Lots of pumps and wires and gizmo's that add weight. Difficult to yank out and still have an operating car unless you have a masters in electrical engineering.
The proper application of cubic dollars would fix that, but the result would not be the same as a welled cared for V12 R230. It might be easier to drop this V12 in any other car than make this a track car.
Go drive one. Take a few corners at speed. Stomp the brakes a few times. Then stop and check the gas gauge, tire wear and smoking brakes. It's fun, but goes through consumable parts rapidly.
Plus, the V12 is nose heavy, and even the SL55 might outrun it when it gets twisty. I know a Vette will. The V12 will win on the straight, and so will an S600.
The drive train is bulletproof. Almost no one can break it. I've tried. It will last a long time.
V12 Coil packs will cause you problems. So will the motor mounts, which require pulling the engine. Suspension bushings don't last long. ABC suspension would have to come off, and the results are mixed.
Aftermarket parts are few and costly, as it's a small market.
Maybe someone who has gone there can give you better advice than my experience. Me...I'd find a better platform before throwing a ton of money at this for a track car.
If you want the best GT for street use, this is an awesome car, and will impress you and your friends.
Best of luck in your decision.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 541
Likes: 93
From: Northern VA
SL 600
R230 V12 is not meant for the track (road course) way too heavy and bad weight distribution towards the front. However, for a 1/4 mile drag track, it's a beast. With a tune, custom CAI, and muffler delete you can run 10s with this car. With catless DPs, better cooling, and drag radials you could hit low-mid 10s.
I have one myself, it's stupid fast and will outrun 99% of whatever is on the road today, once in awhile i'll run into a GTR and the new Z06 but that's rare. Brakes are cheap, it's the same brakes as the SL55, when you step up to the SL65 then the rotors will cost like a grand and there's no aftermarket for them.
Someone with a V12 got coilovers as well as sway bars made, so it's out there, if you want to spend the money, search for that thread, owner is ED954 i believe. and Kbob999 is right about the drivetrain, i've floored mine everywhere i go, with big wheels and sticky tires and i haven't done anything bad to the trans or engine yet. They're rated to hold much more power than what the car is putting out so it's relatively safe.
I have one myself, it's stupid fast and will outrun 99% of whatever is on the road today, once in awhile i'll run into a GTR and the new Z06 but that's rare. Brakes are cheap, it's the same brakes as the SL55, when you step up to the SL65 then the rotors will cost like a grand and there's no aftermarket for them.
Someone with a V12 got coilovers as well as sway bars made, so it's out there, if you want to spend the money, search for that thread, owner is ED954 i believe. and Kbob999 is right about the drivetrain, i've floored mine everywhere i go, with big wheels and sticky tires and i haven't done anything bad to the trans or engine yet. They're rated to hold much more power than what the car is putting out so it's relatively safe.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
I love the response!
Ive understood that the car is crazy heavy and is loused with electronics. My plan would be to strip as much of the weights for cf and easy electronics and such, and tbh Im more intrested in the m120 than m275, but I like the R230 chassie.
I have yet to see any clear chassie parts, like how the front steering works or how the suspension is setup, anyone could fill me in on that?
Bulletproof driveline? You had me at b
.
But im wondrous why not even Mercedes made a GT3 car out of it..
Ive understood that the car is crazy heavy and is loused with electronics. My plan would be to strip as much of the weights for cf and easy electronics and such, and tbh Im more intrested in the m120 than m275, but I like the R230 chassie.
I have yet to see any clear chassie parts, like how the front steering works or how the suspension is setup, anyone could fill me in on that?
Bulletproof driveline? You had me at b
.But im wondrous why not even Mercedes made a GT3 car out of it..
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,882
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
The V12 is a cruiser GT and not a sports car and definitely not a good track car. It's just too damn heavy. Don't waste your time. The expense and repairs on the V12 platform will eat your lunch. Get a Miata, Corvette, or another lightweight car that is easily modified and has tons of aftermarket parts. Again, the 230SL is not an ideal candidate for your project.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Maybe Im misleading you guys. Im not intrested in a corvette or a miata. I love v12, especially the m120.
And by trackoriented car I dont necessary mean a time hunting car. Im quite familiar with rebuilding and fabricating cars.
So with that said, I wanna build a car with a v12. A v12 mid engine kitcar is gonna be costly and the ones out there are usually designed around v8s. Not every car can house a v12 and be just right.
So thats why I wanna build an SL. The car is just right with a v12.
So back to my questions, what type of geometry is the front end? Mcphearson? Dual A? Its hard to see from the few pictures on the internet sadly.
calipers, are they interchangeable with each model? Or do I have to change the spindles?
This is focused on R230, not something else. I have that allready
And by trackoriented car I dont necessary mean a time hunting car
. Im quite familiar with rebuilding and fabricating cars. So with that said, I wanna build a car with a v12. A v12 mid engine kitcar is gonna be costly and the ones out there are usually designed around v8s. Not every car can house a v12 and be just right.
So thats why I wanna build an SL. The car is just right with a v12.
So back to my questions
, what type of geometry is the front end? Mcphearson? Dual A? Its hard to see from the few pictures on the internet sadly. calipers, are they interchangeable with each model? Or do I have to change the spindles?
This is focused on R230, not something else. I have that allready
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Haha its okey, You can call me dumb. I just feel that the m120 v12 is a better engine availble for decent money. M275 is sohc and not that.... impressive tbh.
But is there anyone who can answear my questions? :P
But is there anyone who can answear my questions? :P
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Also theres a reason Pagani used that engine. It worked flawless when tuned correctly. Slap on some nice longtube or f1 style headers and you have a screamer. port the heads and add some bigger valves and youll prolly gonna get close to 100hp/L perhaps!
If you had the same compression as the m275 on a m120, I bet you that the m120 would out perform on forced induction.
So please, run away. I can take the engine =)
Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 101
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From: Australia
2003 SL500
The front suspension is a hydraulic strut on a single lower control arm.
The system uses ABC Active Body Control which can be expensive and unreliable and most of us hold our breath when you utter or mention ABS.
There are threads showing the interchangeable rotors and multi pot callipers so yes brake upgrades are possible.
there are numerous points of view as you are now experiencing but I do believe the later V12's are plagued with maintenance problems and costs.
But hey I had to own one (not a V12 but just the SL500) as I cannot get my eyes off it...I love the lines and looks as do heaps of bystanders.
I have owned Ferraris and Porsches and the 230 gets comments and eyeballing every time I drive it which is 2-3 times week.
The system uses ABC Active Body Control which can be expensive and unreliable and most of us hold our breath when you utter or mention ABS.
There are threads showing the interchangeable rotors and multi pot callipers so yes brake upgrades are possible.
there are numerous points of view as you are now experiencing but I do believe the later V12's are plagued with maintenance problems and costs.
But hey I had to own one (not a V12 but just the SL500) as I cannot get my eyes off it...I love the lines and looks as do heaps of bystanders.
I have owned Ferraris and Porsches and the 230 gets comments and eyeballing every time I drive it which is 2-3 times week.
MBworld Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,782
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NO LONGER ACTIVE
It sounds like you intend to do a lot of custom work. Unless you are into EEPROM programming at a HEX level, forget it. MBZ electronics are VERY complex. You can just start replacing engines and transmissions and have them work. They use proprietary software on many of these systems that require either a "live" connection to MBZ to code, or some high-level hacking skills. I'm not saying it can;t be done, just that it's very difficult and risky.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,882
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
Seems like every few months we get a dreamer. That's a good thing if they follow through on the plans.. I'd say 1 in a 100 do so and less than half of those meet the success they envision.
Hope it works out. I think the M120 would be a beast if you could successfully boost the engine. Four valve engines love boost and respond very well. Do not waste your time and money trying to make a NA M120 a high power engine without boost. Doing so would be extremely expensive and may not lead to the results you wanted. Boost will take out all the guesswork. 14 psi in an M120 would give you around 800 hp if you could control the heat and detonation. Then again, why go through all that when MB already has a V12 with turbos.
Hope it works out. I think the M120 would be a beast if you could successfully boost the engine. Four valve engines love boost and respond very well. Do not waste your time and money trying to make a NA M120 a high power engine without boost. Doing so would be extremely expensive and may not lead to the results you wanted. Boost will take out all the guesswork. 14 psi in an M120 would give you around 800 hp if you could control the heat and detonation. Then again, why go through all that when MB already has a V12 with turbos.
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Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Rudeney, I will kinda strip the car of most electronic. Go stand alone engine management. I mainly wanted to get info around the chassie .
Typical Americans to bash on every "somewhat" crazy idea :p.
Look, Im a swede who've done some crazy builds and I know my way around fabrication. First of I want the car NA to begin with, screaming car>everything. M120 will prolly handle boost very well with a standalone ecu, single turbo, e85 and rear mount radiator with an extra electrical waterpump.
.Typical Americans to bash on every "somewhat" crazy idea :p.
Look, Im a swede who've done some crazy builds and I know my way around fabrication. First of I want the car NA to begin with, screaming car>everything. M120 will prolly handle boost very well with a standalone ecu, single turbo, e85 and rear mount radiator with an extra electrical waterpump.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 541
Likes: 93
From: Northern VA
SL 600
Let's see some pics of these "crazy builds" i'm interested in seeing what you've done in the past, because what you are trying to do now, is not only a waste of money, but also time, and will highly doubt it'll run right. Good luck.
Thread Starter
Newbie
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Im currently abroad for work, So I only have my phone but managed to post some ive helped with on a album on imgur: http://imgur.com/a/d7EHVoS my cobra kit with csb355, tremec t5, full c4 suspension and dana diff blew the engine early june so gonna throw out the old and put in a lm7 or something with a rewelded bmw diesel gearbox (gs6-37dz or a 53). Friends t5 Volvo 122, full 4link and individual suspension and cage, registering for street use. friends S15 lhd converted with m104 turbo, fully drift competitve. My s13 coupe rb25, roof was bad so made a mold, cut off the roof and gonna replace with cf, fully driftspec and also registering for street. Also been involved with 4 mkiv, s13 s54 turbo, e36 turbo etc..
It feels weird that I have to prove my self when I just wanted to ask and/or discuss about the r230.
I actually dont know what to say..
It feels weird that I have to prove my self when I just wanted to ask and/or discuss about the r230.
I actually dont know what to say..
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 992
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From: Tucson, AZ
'20 X5 M50i; '17 Ram 3500; Golf Cart; Bikes; Scooters
Summitshow - your resume shows you know how to accept a challenge. Impressive. I still think this build will take you to a level you have not seen before.
Most of the owners here are simply trying to keep their steed alive and kicking, while you are asking about going to a Frankenstein level by building a beast. We don't see that often.
I'd suggest talking to a few ECM tuners who work with the R230 and get their take on the challenges to expect. We will be proud of you if you can accomplish this.
Most of the owners here are simply trying to keep their steed alive and kicking, while you are asking about going to a Frankenstein level by building a beast. We don't see that often.
I'd suggest talking to a few ECM tuners who work with the R230 and get their take on the challenges to expect. We will be proud of you if you can accomplish this.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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118d -08, 240sx -92,
Thanks kbob!
Well Ozc204 pretty much filled in me on the last info I needed, I know what standalone to use and what gearbox, custom driveshaft etc. Im in contact with a guy not far from where I live who is building a diablo replica with a m120 https://youtu.be/3pzuEyn4WgI 450hp on safe tune and bf95(euro). Thou his headers are more cramped, im gonna try to develop equallength or f1 style headers.
https://youtu.be/9zZcAJ-NEKo kimani managed to make the heavy s600 with the super slow automatic sound line this, imagine a sleek r230 with a 6speed
Well Ozc204 pretty much filled in me on the last info I needed, I know what standalone to use and what gearbox, custom driveshaft etc. Im in contact with a guy not far from where I live who is building a diablo replica with a m120 https://youtu.be/3pzuEyn4WgI 450hp on safe tune and bf95(euro). Thou his headers are more cramped, im gonna try to develop equallength or f1 style headers.
https://youtu.be/9zZcAJ-NEKo kimani managed to make the heavy s600 with the super slow automatic sound line this, imagine a sleek r230 with a 6speed
MBworld Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,782
Likes: 1,011
NO LONGER ACTIVE
Rudeney, I will kinda strip the car of most electronic. Go stand alone engine management. I mainly wanted to get info around the chassie .
Typical Americans to bash on every "somewhat" crazy idea :p.
Look, Im a swede who've done some crazy builds and I know my way around fabrication. First of I want the car NA to begin with, screaming car>everything. M120 will prolly handle boost very well with a standalone ecu, single turbo, e85 and rear mount radiator with an extra electrical waterpump.
.Typical Americans to bash on every "somewhat" crazy idea :p.
Look, Im a swede who've done some crazy builds and I know my way around fabrication. First of I want the car NA to begin with, screaming car>everything. M120 will prolly handle boost very well with a standalone ecu, single turbo, e85 and rear mount radiator with an extra electrical waterpump.
I'm not bashing your idea - just making sure you know what you are getting into. MBZ's electronics are like no others.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4
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From: Singapore
280 SLC
Seems like every few months we get a dreamer. That's a good thing if they follow through on the plans.. I'd say 1 in a 100 do so and less than half of those meet the success they envision.
Hope it works out. I think the M120 would be a beast if you could successfully boost the engine. Four valve engines love boost and respond very well. Do not waste your time and money trying to make a NA M120 a high power engine without boost. Doing so would be extremely expensive and may not lead to the results you wanted. Boost will take out all the guesswork. 14 psi in an M120 would give you around 800 hp if you could control the heat and detonation. Then again, why go through all that when MB already has a V12 with turbos.
Hope it works out. I think the M120 would be a beast if you could successfully boost the engine. Four valve engines love boost and respond very well. Do not waste your time and money trying to make a NA M120 a high power engine without boost. Doing so would be extremely expensive and may not lead to the results you wanted. Boost will take out all the guesswork. 14 psi in an M120 would give you around 800 hp if you could control the heat and detonation. Then again, why go through all that when MB already has a V12 with turbos.
