Replacing COMAND with Kenwood
 

Having decided I would use my tax return to upgrade from the 1990's (?) feature set in the stock COMAND unit, I went to the local auto and home hi-fi shop and placed an order for an aftermarket head unit from 2018 and some extra toys. After some conversation with the system design guy, here's what I will be having them install later this week and their estimated pricing:

$750 Kenwood DDX9905S head unit (https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/excelon/ddx9905s/)
$600 NAV-TV MOST- HUR MB-S (OPTI-1) to interface with the MOST ring (https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT50...-s-opti-1.html)
$200 NAV-TV Dash kit "for an OEM look" (https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT42...rcedes-sl.html)
$250 NAV-TV UNI-CAN+ for steering wheel controls (https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT760/uni-can.html)
$150 Kenwood DRVN520 Dashcam (https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/dash...mera/drv-n520/)
$250 Labor to install, calibrate and program the above items
$250 Camera in back (https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT299/camera-6.html)
$130 Camera in front (https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT564/camera-12.html)
$300 Labor to install F/R camera system
$2880 Total

Yes, I realize I could get a less expensive setup (Chinese/Japanese Android). I could also get a much more expensive system (built-in Garmin navigation).
Yes, I realize I could do the installation myself and save some cash. I choose not to.

Through this process, I will lose the 12 year old COMAND unit, the 6-disc CD changer, the DVD-based Navigation system, the BT phone-call-only puck, some of the steering wheel control (CD/DVD, navigation, etc.), and the ability to set the dash clock from the COMAND.

What I'm wondering is whether I should expect any/much audio quality degradation (or improvement) from the stock system. The stereo shop tells me the MB stock amp matches well with the Bose speakers and I shouldn't need to replace either for good sound quality. I know there some of you with opinions and more audio expertise than I. What are your thoughts on this setup?

I believe others have successfully used this MOST interface which costs $500 less.

A competently-designed head unit has no discernible sound of its own. Consequently, the audio system should sound as it did before.

I agree with your shop. The Bose amplifier processes the audio signal to customize it to both the speakers it is feeding and the R230 listening environment. No aftermarket system can do that, so anyone who discards the Bose is starting at a major technical disadvantage.

Looks to me like the sound itself will not be any better or worse than before as you are keeping the Bose amp and speakers in place. You may get more power or not depending on the Kenwood specs. I went to a Cars and Coffee event in San Clemente last year and spoke with a high-end audio guy and he said the Command head unit was pretty good and he usually just swaps out the amp and speakers when he does systems for our cars. Now, that swap runs around $4k.

I think what you gain are modern conveniences such as HD radio, streaming capabilities and navigation through your phone, and backup camera.

I think you did a good thing there and I wish I had your options but since my car is an '03 I don't have the MOST fiber ring. My only option is to replace the Bose amp with an aftermarket amp or go cheap Chinese (which does the same thing).

If I were interested in COMAND replacement on an '03 or '04 car, I would substitute the amplifier from an '05 or later car. That would not be plug-and-play, but I don't believe there are insurmountable obstacles involved, and it should be easier than replacing the existing amplifier and speakers with aftermarket.

BobTerry99 - Thank you for your response. I was hoping you would chime in. You seem to have quite a bit of insight into the automotive audio field.
According to the web page you referenced for the AVIN MOST interface, it is not compatible with the BOSE DB2 fiber optic system. I assume that is the type of MOST in my system, since the speakers are clearly marked with a Bose logo and I've not seen any reference to Harmon Kardon in my car. Is that a safe assumption?
The specs for the Kenwood eXcelon Reference series show the preout level is 5v rather than the (seemingly) standard 4v. Would that affect audio quality? Kenwood seems pretty proud of it.

57staff - Those modern conveniences are exactly what I was aiming for. I still can't believe MB navigation is as bad as it was in 2007... or that they didn't include an Aux input in 2007... or that the BT puck is not A2DP.

Interesting idea there. Here is what I would need I believe.

05-08-Mercedes-R230-SL500-SL55-AMG-Amplifier-Audio-Amp-Bose-2308203889-OEM

If I swap out head unit and get a MOST harness adaptor, the only other question is how the amp gets power. It would be awesome if it would just plug in as a replacement. May require some custom wiring.

If you have another look at that website and also search MBWorld for that AVIN I think you'll conclude that it is compatible with your audio system.

I'm certain I know far less than you and perhaps other readers imagine. I've never had interest in car audio. I'm completely oblivious to what products are currently being offered in the marketplace. In part that's why on a current thread I questioned a poster about upgrading the Bose sub-woofer, since I have no idea of what is available and was curious how it would be superior.

That said, I know enough about car audio to recognize that many people have a misunderstanding of the subject and make sound-related choices which are based upon untruths. That seems unfortunate to me.

You asked how your new system would sound compared to the old, and in giving you my honest answer I may have done a disservice. Had I lied and said it should sound much better, psychoacoustics likely would have caused you to perceive an improvement though none existed.

As I posted in another thread, I just ordered a W220 Bose amp with the connector pigtails. This appears to be the same amp as in the SL (Bose 4166M), though I suspect it drives more speakers and may even support fade control.

Next step will be to figure out how to splice the SL D2B wiring harness to the MOST amp connector. I'll also need to get a MOST cable to run from the amp to where the MOST conversion harness will be (front dash).

Based upon intuition and Mercedes literature, the W220 amplifier can not possibly be the same as the R230 amplifier. Each amplifier is customized to the vehicle interior it was intended for.

I hear what you are saying, yet I provide Exhibit A. Notice how the R230 overlays the W220 designation. I also noticed that Audis use the same amp in the S6 and S8. Now, this does not mean that there could be custom software programming for tuning the audio performance, but the amp itself appears to be identical. I'm sure the W220 amp (S and CL) will have more speakers because of the rear seating area.

Also, based on my years in software companies, I never confuse marketing with implementation.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6253780680.jpg

The R230 has a pair of rear speakers on a common amplification channel. The S-Class does not and instead has independent rear channels. This alone should be a clue to you that these amplifiers are not identical.

7 Day Update
 

I've now had this system installed for a week. Thought I'd give my first impressions.

First though... kudos to be sent out.

If you're anywhere near Salem, Oregon and are contemplating having a stereo shop install your system - Go to Hear No Evil! Shop around for price comparisons, too. You'll come back to HNE. Other shops I checked with wouldn't even touch the R230 or they would start their quote with $5K to $10K just to remove the fiber optics. These guys are a family-owned operation that has been in business since 1978 and they know what they're doing. They listened to what I wanted for a replacement system and made a recommendation for all the equipment listed in my OP above. Once I pulled the trigger on the project and made a down payment, they ordered the pieces and parts and scheduled my installation. The install took a little less than 2 days as they promised.

Now the stereo... I LOVE IT!

Having never used a touch screen HU in a car before, I knew I'd have a bit of a learning curve to deal with. There are so many icons and settings to deal with to tweak it the way I want! I have a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and it pairs easily and quickly through Bluetooth every time. Pandora works very well. It does not handle wireless Android Auto with this phone, but AA works well when connected via the USB cable for Google Maps and for Waze. When it's time to replace my phone, I plan to get a newer Android with a newer OS, but in the meantime I'm very happy without wireless AA. I have noticed there is a difference between the 2 USB ports as far as quirky connections. Neither are all that great when I have a USB thumb drive (64GB) 2/3 filled with MP3 files plugged into the other USB port. I just keep the USB in the center console for those times I'm out of cell coverage and can't stream Pandora.

I also keep a DVD filled with MP3 files in the drive. The directory structure takes a little getting used to, but is relatively easy once I read the Users Guide. It takes a minute or so to load, but that's about how long it takes me to back out of my garage and go down the driveway to the street. Ready to rock & roll by the time I hit the road! :wootrock:

The HD Radio is very handy for those times I'm OK with listening to the occasional advertisement and talking between songs. It's very easy to use and can scan for the strongest stations and save them to the presets. These can be over-ridden with weaker stations by manually entering the stations' frequencies.

Cameras bring a whole other level to the driving experience. The HiFi shop set up the front camera to the A/V input so I can select it quickly as I enter a parking lot. This helps prevent me from bombing into the parking blocks that are usually too tall for a car with such a low front end as the R230. The backup camera automatically displays when the gearshift is set to reverse. Extremely handy when backing into a tight parking space. (This is the norm at my office.) The grid lines are very easy to adjust to fit into a standard sized parking space.

The dashcam... Oh, what a wonderful accessory! Every car should have one. Mine has already saved me about $1650. Here's how:

Sunday (2nd day after the system was installed), I was involved in a hit & run incident. The other driver made a lane change into me. Even though I attempted to accelerate out of the way, he tapped my LR wheel and quarter panel. The MB recommended body shop provided a repair estimate of just over $1400. There will also be 5 days worth of car rental fees. My insurance adjuster practically squealed with glee when I mentioned that I had photos and video footage of the incident. It was easy to get the make/model and licence plate information to provide to the local police when I reported it to them. The PD provided me with the name, address, DOB, drivers license, and insurance information of the registered owner. When my insurance adjuster contacted their insurance company and they contacted the owner, he denied it ever happened... Until he was told there was photo & video evidence. "I didn't think there was any contact." Really? Then why did you speed away in a different direction than the road would have taken you if you'd have actually gotten into my lane? :loser:

There is some mention online about the Forward Collision and Departure Delay Warnings. Yes, they are very sensitive. Sometimes too much so. But I'm finding that making the adjustments per the setup guide makes them both function a lot better. If the camera is moved at all, you've got to re-adjust the settings. After the H&R incident, I felt the 8 GB micro SD that comes standard is too small. I've installed a 32 GB version (the maximum capacity of the dashcam) in order to retain more recordings for a longer time.

As for my earlier concerns about sound quality... I've got to agree with bobterry99. To my admittedly non-audiophile ears, the sound is really no better or worse than it was with the stock COMAND unit. I attribute this to the fact that I kept the Bose amp and speakers which have been programmed to match the physical layout of the R230 cockpit. Yes, I still get that filler audio from the rear speakers and a bit from the upper dash speaker.

Even without any huge improvement in sound quality, I'm extremely happy with the setup. Remember - I was looking for more modern features that we have become accustomed to in more modern cars. The BT works well. The navigation (Google Maps and Waze) are constantly up-to-date. I can stream and control Pandora or Spotify from the HU. Phone calls are at least as simple and my address books import into the unit quickly and easily. The unit can pair with 10 cell phones including 5 which can be used to play guests' music via BT.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c59de21509.jpg
First update - the MB star on startup.



https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...7fab3bc043.jpg
Clean screen with 4 input select buttons and USB ports on either side.

3 month update
 

Not much has changed.
I tend to keep the thumb drive in the farthest USB connector. Rarely use it, though. Still a die-hard Pandora Plus fan.
I'm getting better (quicker) at selecting the front camera as I enter a parking lot. It's kind of weird to lose the music while watching for that parking bumper to loom closer in the front camera display.
My Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge died a horrible death, so I replaced it with a Galaxy S10 (not S10E, not S10+) which I really like a lot. I was hoping Google would have wireless Android Auto working with the updated Android Pie OS and the newer hardware. No joy. :-(
When I use (wired) Android Auto for those longer trips to areas where I'm not familiar with the roads, I notice the sound volume is much higher than when connected via Bluetooth.
Having been a long-time Google Maps user, I'm finding it a little weird that I'm using Waze a lot more now.

I never thought a battery could fold so easily!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...cbe5ab62aa.jpg

I would love to install a system in my 2009 sl550 but would have to have navigation and front rear cameras. I think my problem would be to find a shop to install. I'm going to start looking. Can you recommend a head unit with nav?

First determine what you want from a new system. Do you want gut-rumbling bass and ear-piercing treble? I'm admittedly not an audiophile, so can't help much there.
Or are you (like me) looking for a feature set from this decade? Things like USB, MP3, Bluetooth, Navigation, Apple Car Play or Android Auto, CD/DVD, HD Radio, Serius satellite radio, integrated multi-camera display, etc.

I wasn't keen on having to pay for annual updates to the Garmin GPS built into the Kenwood eXcelon series HU, otherwise I'd have gone with their latest DNX996XR series. Although they run from my cell phone and are not (yet) wireless Android Auto, I prefer to use Google maps or Waze because they are always up-to-date. The Kenwood eXcelon series has a 2 year warranty and sound good.

As for finding a good car stereo shop in your area to do the installation, I'd suggest contacting your local MB or BMW dealer and ask who they recommend to do a clean installation and that will support their installation after the sale. The sales guys are usually "up" on that sort of thing, bored most of the day and anxious to "talk cars" with anyone who will listen. :-)

I'm looking for an upgrade to the nav. front and rear cameras and blue tooth. As long as the radio sounds as good or better I'm good with that. I looked at the DNX996 today along with the DNX 695. Are the yearly updated mandatory? I think I found a decent shop. he did mention though that he would have to use a different amp than the one that is there. I don't know anything about this stuff so I'm taking his word on it. $2700 installed with the DNX 695 and + 700 for the DNX 996. With cameras front and rear.

No, yearly updates to the GPS are not required, but... After living with the old MB DVD-based Nav system for a couple months and it not having Points of Interest I *knew* existed, I was ready for a system with updated information in its' database, I always prefer to have the latest information regarding streets and newly constructed highway features. As an example - I was needing directions to a branch of the bank I work for and the MB system didn't have it listed at all. I knew it had changed names less than 12 months prior, but the system couldn't find it because it didn't exist back in 2007. I was also looking to somewhat future-proof my system.

Regarding the replacement of the amp... I'd assume the shop wants to replace the amp because they are leery of working with the fiber optics between the HU and the amp. It's more profitable for them (and costlier for you in labor charges) to rip out the FO and replace it with wires. Shop around. I went to 3 different car audio shops before deciding on the one I was going to allow to tear my baby apart. One of them stated the job would *start* at $5000 to tear out the fiber optics and rewire the system. Then we could start talking about hardware and installation fees... I almost tripped over myself backing quickly out the door!

Bear in mind this aspect: the HU and interior wiring just carry signals - not audio. In stock form, these signals are light waves/beams - in an aftermarket system with a standard amp, it's electrical. The amp processes those signals to provide the electric power (current & voltage) to drive the speakers via the copper wiring. In our R230, the amp is designed and engineered bu BOSE or Harmon Kardon to give a good audio presentation within the shape and size of the car's cabin. Replacing the amp will bring variables into the mix which I was not ready to tackle in order to re-establish a good sound quality. That's a lot of the reason I opted to retain my amp and have a converter added between the HU and the FO ring.

As far as the actual model of HU, I suggest taking some time (think 30+ minutes) to play with each of the units you're debating over. Ask the salesperson questions. They will have listened to and played with each model and will certainly have an opinion about each one. List out their features and determine which features are "must have", which features you would be OK with, and which features you don't really care whether they are in the package or not. I wasn't concerned with built-in navigation once I decides Waze & Google Maps would work better for me in the long-term, so stopped looking at the Nav units. After that, it was a matter of whether I would be "OK" with the resistive screen or absolutely had to have the capacitive touch screen (I did).
Another thing to think about is the glare from the screen. There is a LOT of sun on the COMAND area when the top is down. Some HU's can tilt one way or another to minimize that glare.
Fingerprints are going to be an issue regardless of which HU you go with. Think about how easy/difficult it will be to clean the screen.

One question about the dash kit. The one you used says 05-08 or something like that. Cant seem to find one for 09. Although my dealer says 05-11 are the same. Can anyone chime in here and tell me if the dash bezels are the same?

There is a lot of confusion surrounding the COMAND units regarding the different model years (apparently even the dealerships are confused). There are 2 different sizes in the R230 - the earlier ones had a strip of the wooden center console trim that runs around the top. Mine (US2007) doesn't. Since the first facelift was in the 2006/US2007 model year, I'd assume your 2009 would be the same. But the 2008/US2009 facelift may have changed the size & shape of the mounting again. Maybe someone with a 2009 can verify.

What did you use to convert the antenna wire from factory to aftermarket?

I noticed that the audio setting in my car changes significantly, just before the roof locks (closing the roof) or just after unlocking (opening the roof). Apparently there’s an adaptation to the acoustics, but I find it hard to pin down. Has anyone else noticed? (Comand NTG1 2005).

Excellent question! I have no idea. That's one of the reasons I "went to the local auto and home hi-fi shop". They knew better than I what was needed to complete the job. I believe the antenna adapter was included in one of the NAV-TV kits.

Interesting! I'll have to start paying attention to the audio levels when opening and closing the roof. I usually don't turn the BT on on my phone until after I have the roof down (I sit and watch the beautiful dance as it gently folds away into the trunk) and I generally have the HU set to front camera for the input when putting the roof back up.

The Nav tv interface doesn’t work with my 09. Can’t seem to find anything else like it. Probably have to get rid of the amp

Yes, I have noticed this. In fact, I get a brief interruption in audio when this happens. I actually posted about this on beznworld. Someone on that W207 forum was asking about it and thought it had to do with the antenna "disconnecting", but then we discussed how it happens on non-antenna based inputs (ipod, SD card, disc, etc.)