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Where were the 3 speakers deleted and do you know in what MY?
I had a 2015 SL550 B4 getting the 2018 and I don't recall any difference in the sound from the 2015 vs 2018 UNTIL my AMP upgrade.
Tx, Steve
Steve....
The number of speakers in the Harman Kardon (HK) system were reduced from (14) to (11) for model year 2015, and the (in-the-dashboard) 6-CD Changer was also dropped for that model model year.. However, I don't know the precise locations of the (3) speakers MB chose to remove or just how much of a difference those may have made to the 600-watt Harman Kardon system's sound quality, (if any). I do remember wondering back then just shy MB chose to remove (3) of the HK's (14) speakers. Maybe MB wanted to further differentiate the HK system from the optional (and very expensive) 900-watt Bang & Olafson system which had (14) speakers in 2013/2014 SL550's, but for 2015 the B&O system was also reduced to (12) speakers. I guess it makes sense that MB would not want the (stock) HK system to have more speakers, (or just as many), as their very expensive B&O optional system.
However that said, it is also possible the decision to remove the (3) speakers could have been nothing more than a cost-cutting measure by MB. Then again, perhaps MB needed to use the 'space' ;occupied for those speakers for 'something else' and didn't feel those (3) speakers would be missed on the HK system.
Perhaps the Wolfman can shed a bit more light on this!
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
Originally Posted by bob55
Streamliner....In answer to your question in from post #93, I think the reasons for the difference were actually noted in your post...The 'source' of the music always matters, plus you are using an equalizer, (from you i-phone).
Obviously, when you increase the output levels for bass and treble, you are going to get more deep bass and more 'high note' treble sound, while decreasing those output levels,will have precisely the opposite effect.
Another difference may be worth noting here as well: Perhaps you are not aware of it, but the newer 231 models, (like your 2019 SL450), have (3) fewer speakers than the original 231's. There are (11) speakers in your 2019 SL 450 HK system, verses the (14) speakers in my 2013 SL 550's HK system which also has a 6-CD changer that was dropped from the SL Class after model year 2014.
The equalizer I was referring to was not on my iPhone, but in the HK menu. Yes, I truly lament the loss of the CD changer both in my S560 and this new SL. I did not know about the speaker difference. That may account for the difference I have detected in the sound I got out of my 2013 SL compared to this new car. Thanks for the info.
Steve, the number of HK speakers were reduced from 14 to 11 for model year 2015 and the 6-CD Changer was also dropped. Howevver, I don't know the precise locations of the (3) speakers that MB chose to remove or just how much of a difference it may have made to the 600-watt Harman Kardon system's sound quality, (if any). I do remember wondering back then just why MB chose to remove (3) of the HK's (14) speakers. Maybe MB wanted to further differentiate the HK system from the optional (and very expensive) 900-watt Bang and Olafson system which as of 2015 has (12) speakers. That seems plausible to me.
However, it is also possible the decision to remove the (3) speakers could have been nothing more than a cost-cutting measure by MB. Then again, perhaps MB needed to use the 'space' that those speakers formerly occupied for 'something else' and didn't feel those (3) speakers would be missed on the HK system.
Perhaps the Wolfman can shed a bit more light on this!
I was not aware of the change in speaker count if so
The change likely occurred when the system changed from a 5.1 to a 7.1 Dolby surround and the DVD changer drop. Since the rear speakers were related to DVD audio format, this will likely have changed.
Thanks for that link Wolf....Certainly was a very 'interesting' read!
The article lavishes a lot of praise on the 14-speaker HK system that was stock on the 2013 SL 550''s, (and remained the same for the 2014 SL 550's). However, as previously noted, a 'different' 11-speaker HK system, (without the in-dash 6-CD changer), has been offered on 231's ever since the 2015 model year, and it is the HK system still being installed in the latest 'face lifted' 231's.
Because the 'newer' (2015-2019) 231 HK systems are 'different' than the original HK design offered back in 2013, the sound quality of these newer HK system may not be as good as the original 2013 design that was so well-praised in the linked article above.
As for the MB 'Signature Sound DVD' that was mentioned within the linked article, I found that inside the zippered leather binder that came with my 2013 SL550, (i.e. de the black leather binder that holds the instruction manual, maintenance guide, etc)..There was also an HK Logic-7 Audio CD sampler disc found inside my leather binder as well!
Thanks for that link Wolf....Certainly was a very 'interesting' read!
The article lavishes a lot of praise on the 14-speaker HK system that was stock on the 2013 SL 550''s, (and remained the same for the 2014 SL 550's). However, as previously noted, a 'different' 11-speaker HK system, (without the in-dash 6-CD changer), has been offered on 231's ever since the 2015 model year, and it is the HK system still being installed in the latest 'face lifted' 231's.
Because the 'newer' (2015-2019) 231 HK systems are 'different' than the original HK design offered back in 2013, the sound quality of these newer HK system may not be as good as the original 2013 design that was so well-praised in the linked article above.
As for the MB 'Signature Sound DVD' that was mentioned within the linked article, I found that inside the zippered leather binder that came with my 2013 SL550, (i.e. de the black leather binder that holds the instruction manual, maintenance guide, etc)..There was also an HK Logic-7 Audio CD sampler disc found inside my leather binder as well!
The sound quality between the 2013 and 2017 is the same to me; with the edge towards the later one due to Apple CarPlay. We have driven either model for about 3 years and 20K miles, so it wasn't just the occasional listen.
Neither system is particularly great and neither is the optional B&O but for a convertible they are more than sufficient to me. We have Burmesters on the AMG's and both sound better but nothing I would that make me crave for an audio upgrade.
That said, the audio of the signature sound CD was better and crisper and used all speakers in the old SL.
I primarily used USB via Apple CarPlay and I have been able to set the setting to my liking on the SL, which includes the audio settings on the iPhone as well.
Just some personal thoughts on audio sources.
I stopped using CD's with the exception of some classical CD's 10 years ago. Never bothered to put CD's in the slots. As such I never missed the drop in slots. I assume that research has made MB conclude the same and get ride of unnecessary costs.
SD card - I could never understand how anyone would spend time putting together a card with its lousy directory structure, etc. An old, permanently connected iPod beats this any day of the week.
Sirius - This tech has audio quality so poor, it's criminal. Compression ratios from the eighties. Whoever listens to Sirius has no business complaining about the SL audio performance Garbage in - Garbage out
Regular radio - just a touch better than Sirius
HD radio - Great when it works. We have so many audio cut-outs even with excellent signal strengths, it diminishes the experience where we live. Not car dependent; same across models and brands
BT - Surprisingly good with late model iPhones but USB is our go-to audio source
I don't remember our equalizer settings but I have always increased bass and high-frequency and lower the mid-range a bit which typically dulls the sound to my ears.
Not everyone will clearly agree here but to me the audio has never been a negative on these SL's. The only that ever diminished the R231 SL IMO were some of the exterior designs and springs instead of ABC, but audio - no way
And y'all do know that your SLs can play DVDs IN MOTION. Love "watching" the Twilight Zone - you'll be surprised when you just listen that you can tell whats going on... But a very cool "feature" that costs $ 200
SD card - I could never understand how anyone would spend time putting together a card with its lousy directory structure, etc. An old, permanently connected iPod beats this any day of the week.
You're killing me here. I've spent hours creating a custom SD Card, that I periodically update with additional songs, and remove songs that I mistakenly added. This is the sole music that I listen to in the SL. I use to use Sirius, but after a while, decided that I wanted to listen only to music that I liked.
So I'm wondering about your "lousy directory structure" comment. My SD Card is arranged alphabetically, first by Artist, and then by Song. I can then use the functions of the Comand system to play any particular song, or artist, that I want to hear at that moment in time. I'm just wondering what you think is better about an iPad or iPhone library. Below is a screen shot of the beginning of my custom SD Card.
You're killing me here. I've spent hours creating a custom SD Card, that I periodically update with additional songs, and remove songs that I mistakenly added. This is the sole music that I listen to in the SL. I use to use Sirius, but after a while, decided that I wanted to listen only to music that I liked.
So I'm wondering about your "lousy directory structure" comment. My SD Card is arranged alphabetically, first by Artist, and then by Song. I can then use the functions of the Comand system to play any particular song, or artist, that I want to hear at that moment in time. I'm just wondering what you think is better about an iPad or iPhone library. Below is a screen shot of the beginning of my custom SD Card.
You're killing me here. I've spent hours creating a custom SD Card, that I periodically update with additional songs, and remove songs that I mistakenly added. This is the sole music that I listen to in the SL. I use to use Sirius, but after a while, decided that I wanted to listen only to music that I liked.
So I'm wondering about your "lousy directory structure" comment. My SD Card is arranged alphabetically, first by Artist, and then by Song. I can then use the functions of the Comand system to play any particular song, or artist, that I want to hear at that moment in time. I'm just wondering what you think is better about an iPad or iPhone library. Below is a screen shot of the beginning of my custom SD Card.
What’s better than spending hours putting the SD cars together?
Not doing it
I stopped creating playlists long time ago for that same reason.
I listen to Apple Music, Spotify and the occasional Pandora. Different apps mix music more effectively.
Also use the occasional TuneIn for some European Radio stations.
I can’t always listen to the same songs
Sirius - This tech has audio quality so poor, it's criminal. Compression ratios from the eighties. Whoever listens to Sirius has no business complaining about the SL audio performance Garbage in - Garbage out
Regular radio - just a touch better than Sirius
HD radio - Great when it works. We have so many audio cut-outs even with excellent signal strengths.
Your comments about Sirius XM music seem very odd to me! Sirius XM music sounds very nice in my 2013 SL 550. but of course I do have the older 14-speaker HK system. Your newer 231 would have the 11-speaker version of the HK system, so I suppose there could well be a few 'minor differences' in how Sirius XM music sounds in your car verses mine!...
As for HD Radio, I haven't experienced the 'cut outs' you mentioned when listening to HD on my 231, although admittedly I listen to Sirius XM most of the time. The radio reception issues in your area are not something I have ever experienced here in South Florida. Perhaps your Sirius XM sound quality concerns are also related to (Satellite) reception problems much like HD Radio. Then again, any Sirius XM sound quality problems you are experiencing could be unique to your particular car!...
I suggest getting your HK system's Sirius XM radio checked out by an MB Dealer if indeed Sirius XM music isn't sounding perfectly 'bright and clear' in your 231!...
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
My bottom line on this, is that we can try to defend the audio systems in the R231’s, but we should not have to. Like in any more upscale Toyota or Honda, you should be able to turn the system on and be able to EASILY hear wonderful sounding music from any decent source, including satellite. I listen to Sirius XM in my S560 all the time and it sounds just fine to my non-audiophile ears. The hoops one must jump through to get these SL audio systems to produce what I will now call “barely acceptable” sound, is just ridiculous. MB found out very early on that they had a problem with the audio systems in the R231 and should have properly addressed it at once. Instead, they ignored it, refused to accept the facts and pretty much flipped the bird to all the folks who coughed up big bucks for these luxury cars. Oh well, I still like my car, want my car and would make the same choice again. I’ll get the audio up to acceptable standards one way or another.
Your comments about Sirius XM music seem very odd to me! Sirius XM music sounds very nice in my 2013 SL 550. but of course I do have the older 14-speaker HK system. Your newer 231 would have the 11-speaker version of the HK system, so I suppose there could well be a few 'minor differences' in how Sirius XM music sounds in your car verses mine!...
As for HD Radio, I haven't experienced the 'cut outs' you mentioned when listening to HD on my 231, although admittedly I listen to Sirius XM most of the time. The radio reception issues in your area are not something I have ever experienced here in South Florida. Perhaps your Sirius XM sound quality concerns are also related to (Satellite) reception problems much like HD Radio. Then again, any Sirius XM sound quality problems you are experiencing could be unique to your particular car!...
I suggest getting your HK system's Sirius XM radio checked out by an MB Dealer if indeed Sirius XM music isn't sounding perfectly 'bright and clear' in your 231!...
Forget about the idea that the "older" HK system is better than the newer one. It appears that they simply removed the speakers that weren't activated anyway. That said, if Sirius sounds great to you, then that simply means that the sound fits your preference. But it is crap sound quality independent the car or sound system. And I am being polite here...
It's all about compression. Satellites have a fixed bandwidth; more channels equal less quality. Same as Directv for example. They have unbearable 4k video quality due to compression artifacts. All it takes is to watch a UHD Bluray DVD to see the difference.
No audio channel from Sirius is anywhere close to 128bit compression, which is a baseline for acceptable sound quality. Sirius uses a proprietary algorithm but their audio is well below any other non-satellite-based music service.
HD radio cut-outs are likely regional as mentioned.
My bottom line on this, is that we can try to defend the audio systems in the R231’s, but we should not have to. Like in any more upscale Toyota or Honda, you should be able to turn the system on and be able to EASILY hear wonderful sounding music from any decent source, including satellite. I listen to Sirius XM in my S560 all the time and it sounds just fine to my non-audiophile ears. The hoops one must jump through to get these SL audio systems to produce what I will now call “barely acceptable” sound, is just ridiculous. MB found out very early on that they had a problem with the audio systems in the R231 and should have properly addressed it at once. Instead, they ignored it, refused to accept the facts and pretty much flipped the bird to all the folks who coughed up big bucks for these luxury cars. Oh well, I still like my car, want my car and would make the same choice again. I’ll get the audio up to acceptable standards one way or another.
It is apparent that we differ in our perception on how the SL audio system I always recognized the Burmester in our S550 sounded better than when getting into the SL. That is to be expected for a number of reasons. But to me is wasn't the day/night difference. It was from great going to decent. The phrase "terrible" would not come to mind...
Shame on me. I'll look into it, pronto. See, that's exactly why I said I update my songs.
I didn’t mean to come across negatively. Must be the German in me. Sorry! What you are doing is the right thing as it is exactly what works for you.
I have simply become too lazy to curate our playlists and music collections even though I do this still for some events/parties when I don’t want any bad song to diminish the flow.
It is a high maintenance approach to manage this on a computer vs. having the algorithm make the selection.
I do not recall if SD card formats support AAC or lossless on MB’s.
me: 2015 SL400 & 2015 ML400; wife: 2022 GLC Coupe kid: 2017 GLC SUV
Originally Posted by jetjok
You're killing me here. I've spent hours creating a custom SD Card, that I periodically update with additional songs, and remove songs that I mistakenly added. This is the sole music that I listen to in the SL. I use to use Sirius, but after a while, decided that I wanted to listen only to music that I liked.
So I'm wondering about your "lousy directory structure" comment. My SD Card is arranged alphabetically, first by Artist, and then by Song. I can then use the functions of the Comand system to play any particular song, or artist, that I want to hear at that moment in time. I'm just wondering what you think is better about an iPad or iPhone library. Below is a screen shot of the beginning of my custom SD Card.
just curious, as you get deeper into the alphabet do you have any music from this century?
06-07-2019, 10:29 AM
