SL-Class (R231) 2013 on: Discussion on the SL550

SL/R231: Next generation SL - hard top or soft top?

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Old 04-17-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
I don't remember a gap. What happened?
Rudeney had told me "There was no MY2010 because sales of MY2009s were below expectations. So, all the cars built for MY2010 were sold as MY2011’s, then the MY2012 was the final edition of the R230."
Old 04-17-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
I don't remember a gap. What happened?
I thought it was 2012 but Eddie could be right. There was a missing model year

Last edited by Wolfman; 04-17-2019 at 08:25 PM.
Old 04-17-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I thought it was 2012 but Eddie could be right. There was a missing model year
In those years, I was so happy with my 2004 and disliked the 2009 and later cars so much, I never paid any attention to them. I never noticed a missing year. I was also still running my business and did not pay that much attention to what was going on.

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Old 04-18-2019, 03:17 AM
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So, the coupe version is not confirmed yet huh? Well, to be honest I would love to see the coupe version of the SL-class.....but anyway, all this speculation etc. they are all only rumours. Nothing is sure until there is an actually official news from Mercedes.
Old 04-18-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I thought it was 2012 but Eddie could be right. There was a missing model year
a similar search for 2010's came up empty....

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3472/overview/
Old 04-19-2019, 10:10 AM
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Here is a link to an article published in Motor Authority, pretty much confirming the items mentioned in other postings: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ation-sl-class
Old 04-19-2019, 10:19 AM
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No more MB:(
Seems like there will some overlap between the GT and new SL, perhaps on purpose with the main difference being a 2+2 with more luxury on the SL? I'll stick with my hardtop. Also, sounds like more engine variants for the sates? 450, 53, 550(580), and an AMG?
Old 04-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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Well, I find all this performance talk on the new SL to be ridiculous. The SL has been a fine grand tourer for decades now. It has been a heavy, solid, very comfortable, fast & safe convertible for two, with exemplary top down and top up characteristics. Of course, the current car needs a major redesign and basic, standard content, such as ABC & a BEAUTIFUL body need to be restored in the new car, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water!

Despite the meaning of “SL,” it doesn’t NEED to become a light weight and go back to being a sports car, as the brand already has the AMG GT line up. It sounds as though the new SL will be simply a luxed-up AMG GT, probably with a bit softer ride, smoother transmission and de-tuned engines. It should NOT be that, it should be a two-seat, mini S Class, as it has been, but that’s just how I see it. But then again, I’ve owned seven of them—with Number 8 coming soon—so I would think that my feelings should count for something, but of course, they don’t.

I think MB has lost their collective minds with their making virtually everything AMG. Not only does it turn off folks like me, I truly believe that it dilutes the AMG cachet. If every car is an AMG, then AMG will be passé, which I believe is something that is right around the corner.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:30 PM
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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No more MB:(
In an effort to monetize the AMG brand there is little doubt that this runs the risk of brand dilution which in my opinion is what MB is teetering on. Seems like MB wants their product in everyone's driveway which I completely understand, however that brings with it lots of other issues. Most obvious is loss of exclusivity, which has already occurred with MB and now if not careful AMG.

Those of us you have had the privilege of owning generations of MB vehicles have no doubt seen a radical and almost swift departure from what MB once was. Which was uncompromising luxury and quality with certain quirks that made MB standout from everything on the road. There is no doubt that it is still an amazing vehicle and arguably still the best on the road but definitely not the same, part of the DNA is gone.
Old 04-19-2019, 01:01 PM
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I think you guys misunderstand the news of the car being designed by AMG.

Think of it this way; If the car would not share components and platform with the upcoming AMG GT, I would question if there would even be a next SL.
Platform sharing lowers development and manufacturing cost. AMG doesn't just mean sporty; they are doing a lot of general MB product and engine development. The 4.0L V8 is a good example as there are plenty of non-AMG cars (like Streamliners S560) riding smooth on an AMG developed engine
Old 04-19-2019, 01:08 PM
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No more MB:(
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I think you guys misunderstand the news of the car being designed by AMG.

Think of it this way; If the car would not share components and platform with the upcoming AMG GT, I would question if there would even be a next SL.
Platform sharing lowers development and manufacturing cost. AMG doesn't just mean sporty; they are doing a lot of general MB product and engine development. The 4.0L V8 is a good example as there are plenty of non-AMG cars (like Streamliners S560) riding smooth on an AMG developed engine
Correct and I agree on all counts however in the case of the new SL (assuming reports are correct), it seems that MB is handing off the reigns to AMG, which is not a bad thing, just different. This is a bit more than sharing a platform or dropping tech or an engine that was AMG inspired or developed.
Old 04-19-2019, 02:26 PM
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What Places has said in Post #35 is absolutely correct!...It appears the next generation SL will no longer be as distinct and unique as it has been over the last 17 years due to MB's decision to use more 'platform sharing' as a way to save money.

While that may be a sound financial decision for MB, it doesn't sound very good to SL Loyalists like me.

It appears the SL Class is about to lose much of it's 'uniqueness' (obviously the folding hardtop), but also quite possibly its S-Class level of comfort and sophistication as well. Those are the (2) things that have made the SL so 'special' to me over the last 17 years. (Owned the 230 before buying the 231). With those things disappearing for the next SL generation, I fear my long time love affair with the SL Class will soon be coming to an end.

Seems the SL's unique identity is about to become quite 'blurred' by this AMG platform sharing, with the SL Class '232' losing much of the uniqueness and exclusivity I have come to love, and blurring the lines that differentiate the Sl Class from the AMG GT. Perhaps MB is even considering merging these two models into just one model at some point..

Once what I have most loved about the SL Class is gone, the unique 'appeal' of the SL Class for me will be gone as well!

I know for sure that I won't buy the 232 Soft Top convertible, so the only way I could ever see owing the next generation '232' would be if MB decided to add a hardtop coupe version to the mix. That possibility has been bantered around some, but it may never come to pass, especially if the new 232 doesn't sell.

I still have some hope that at some point MB may give us an SL Class Hardtop Coupe, perhaps something akin to the original SLC (The SL Coupe that was part of the SL Class back in the late 70's).

As often said, "Hope Springs Eternal", but in the meantime, I will say again, Long Live the 231...

Last edited by bob55; 04-19-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 04-19-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I think you guys misunderstand the news of the car being designed by AMG.

Think of it this way; If the car would not share components and platform with the upcoming AMG GT, I would question if there would even be a next SL.
Platform sharing lowers development and manufacturing cost. AMG doesn't just mean sporty; they are doing a lot of general MB product and engine development. The 4.0L V8 is a good example as there are plenty of non-AMG cars (like Streamliners S560) riding smooth on an AMG developed engine
Of course, you are right, but MUST the SL absolutely pencil out? I know about corporations needing to maximize profits, but with a low volume, specialty car like the SL, they should consider it a “halo” car, something to show off the brand name, with part of the cost considered to be “brand promotion.” The design & content of the SL should be second to none, pulling out all the stops in its redesign. MB should throw the engineering needed at the project, to create something truly special and unique. If the retractable hard top is too heavy, engineer it to be lighter. Raise the price a bit, but keep it in range of the current car. If MB makes something less on each SL sold, so be it. MB is this mammoth, world wide, world class brand. They can very easily afford a halo car that in addition to being a profit generator, will very proudly and very prominently show off the 3-Pointed Star. The SL is “THE” car that is perfectly positioned to do this, in my humble opinion.
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Old 04-19-2019, 03:22 PM
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No more MB:(
Originally Posted by Streamliner
Of course, you are right, but MUST the SL absolutely pencil out? I know about corporations needing to maximize profits, but with a low volume, specialty car like the SL, they should consider it a “halo” car, something to show off the brand name, with part of the cost considered to be “brand promotion.” The design & content of the SL should be second to none, pulling out all the stops in its redesign. MB should throw the engineering needed at the project, to create something truly special and unique. If the retractable hard top is too heavy, engineer it to be lighter. Raise the price a bit, but keep it in range of the current car. If MB makes something less on each SL sold, so be it. MB is this mammoth, world wide, world class brand. They can very easily afford a halo car that in addition to being a profit generator, will very proudly and very prominently show off the 3-Pointed Star. The SL is “THE” car that is perfectly positioned to do this, in my humble opinion.
100%. Unfortunately sometimes I think that MB is catering to a new generation of buyer that doesn't really - in the case of the SL - have any recollection of what a classic car it, the SL should be based on lineage. It is about numbers and it is about absorption. They realize that there is a base like ourselves that may resist certain directions but they don't care. The SL is one of the most important cars in automotive history, and yet they may not know what to do with that cache. It's a great opportunity to raise and set the bar, we'll have to see. I'm sure it will be quite impressive.
Old 04-19-2019, 05:44 PM
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Streamliner I fully agree with all you said 100000%

Sad that these days its all about PERFORMANCE, LIGHTWEIGHT, HANDLING, RIDE, DYNAMICS, GRIP, CORNERING, and all that dumb stuff. Dont get me wrong, I love all that, but they are 2nd priority for me. 1st is comfort and cruising and luxury and relaxed driving............

Ferrari, a brand known for performance, can create HARDTOPS. apparently the next gen 812 will have folding hardtop just like portofino. McLaren, also another performance brand, also has hardtops. I absolutely love Mercedes but from this perspective I kinda dislike them because of their insistence on going soft top. IS THE AMG GT NOT ENOUGH? lol. I feel like the SL and AMG GT will be very similar to each other, except the SL will be more luxurious, thats it.

But because development has been handed to AMG, a brand who I truly truly love, it will be 99% sure that, since they are obsessed with performance and lightweight and all those things I mentioned above, it will go soft top 99%, which I hate.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:10 PM
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Too much end of the world discussion here...

Every-time a new Mercedes model is introduced, people will lament change from the old. I understand that in this case of course but I personally have no opinion about the next SL until I see it taking shape. 2+2 is a bigger deal to me than the soft top. I love the hardtop and use it likely more than others here due to weather and love much of the R231 SL but also thought in 2012 that the car should have been better. Funny thing is that it was technically but I missed some things in the design.

We are longtime SL drivers too (over 25 years without a gap) but unlike many traditionalist here I look forward to what's next. I guess I am a glass half full guy and expect a fantastic car

That said, there are a couple things to consider that are quickly dismissed by some members here; first while Mercedes has a huge production output; car companies make laughably small margins on their products. Software, tech and service companies, medical device or pharmaceutical would choke on this and not even bother.
The biggest challenge these days is that environmental issues force rapid technical change and consumer tastes and the pace of technological change outpaces traditional product development. This can't be underestimated as it fundamentally changes the car business. The industry will change more in next 10 years than it has the last 70.
This means focus on high volume models.

Germany has to catch up on EV's not to miss the boat and will invest phenomenal amounts of money in short order. Think $100 Billion in less than 10 years. So MB will have no problem dropping the SL if need be. No second thought. Halo cars can always be resurrected...
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by places
100%. Unfortunately sometimes I think that MB is catering to a new generation of buyer that doesn't really - in the case of the SL - have any recollection of what a classic car it, the SL should be based on lineage. It is about numbers and it is about absorption. They realize that there is a base like ourselves that may resist certain directions but they don't care. The SL is one of the most important cars in automotive history, and yet they may not know what to do with that cache. It's a great opportunity to raise and set the bar, we'll have to see. I'm sure it will be quite impressive.
Of course, you are right as well and I am just venting my frustration, as I am definitely of the OLD generation of buyer. After many decades of lusting after new cars, I now find myself in a position where I can pretty much have any convertible I desire and there isn’t a one that really lights my fire. As much as I am looking forward to a new SL450, I feel as though I have sold out, as it really isn’t the new car I want, it’s just the best one available today, for me. The new car I want, isn’t being produced. Hell, I can’t even get the frigging color I want!
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Too much 'end of the world' discussion here...

Every-time a new Mercedes model is introduced, people will lament change from the old. I understand that in this case of course but I personally have no opinion about the next SL until I see it taking shape. 2+2 is a bigger deal to me than the soft top. I love the hardtop and use it likely more than others here due to weather and love much of the R231 SL but also thought in 2012 that the car should have been better. Funny thing is that it was technically but I missed some things in the design.

We are longtime SL drivers too (over 25 years without a gap) but unlike many traditionalist here I look forward to what's next. I guess I am a glass half full guy and expect a fantastic car

That said, there are a couple things to consider that are quickly dismissed by some members here; first while Mercedes has a huge production output; car companies make laughably small margins on their products. Software, tech and service companies, medical device or pharmaceutical would choke on this and not even bother.
The biggest challenge these days is that environmental issues force rapid technical change and consumer tastes and the pace of technological change outpaces traditional product development. This can't be underestimated as it fundamentally changes the car business. The industry will change more in next 10 years than it has the last 70.
This means focus on high volume models.

Germany has to catch up on EV's not to miss the boat and will invest phenomenal amounts of money in short order. Think $100 Billion in less than 10 years. So MB will have no problem dropping the SL if need be. No second thought. Halo cars can always be resurrected...
Interesting that you began your post above by saying there is "too much end of the world discussion here" regarding the SL Class, but then you go on to suggest the actual demise of the SL Class is now a real possibility due to industry changes. So while your post above brings a dose of MB's 'new world' EV reality, your post content also contains more 'bad news' for SL Enthusiasts!

Oh well, so much for the 'hope' of seeing another 'great' SL from Mercedes-Benz any time soon! (I can't call a Soft Top SL 'great').

So, If indeed your suggestion that the SL Class could be discontinued by MB in the not-so-distant-future comes true, I suppose I'll be one of the many people here left 'praying' for a (folding hardtop) SL 'resurrection' as mentioned in your post!...

Last edited by bob55; 04-20-2019 at 03:43 PM.
Old 04-20-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bob55
Interesting that you began your post above by saying there is "too much end of the world discussion here" regarding the SL Class, but then you go on to suggest the actual demise of the SLClass is now a real possibility due to industry changes. So while your post may be a dose of 'new world' EV reality, it is also just more bad news for SL Class Enthusiasts.

Oh well, so much for any 'hope' of seeing another 'great' SL from Mercedes-Benz any time soon! (I won't consider a Soft Top SL 'great').

So, If indeed your suggestion that the SL Class could be discontinued at some point does come true, I'll be one of those left 'praying' for the 'resurrection' that you also mentioned!...
Well, one was related to AMG building the next SL which will not the a worst thing in the world, the other to provide a bit of background to some of the reasoning that drives decision making. It's not greed driving some of these choices.
My earlier point with the engine design was an example that AMG isn't just a one trick pony. They are performance-oriented but they will build to the need. The next SL will not be like the AMG GT. It will be a smooth riding car and it will be more luxurious.

I had mentioned in previous posts that there was a chance of a hardtop amongst all the soft top news and there would have been the possibility but that dwindled with the thought of a 2+2. One cannot have great folding hardtops in that configuration.
Old 04-20-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by adityaw
Streamliner I fully agree with all you said 100000%

Sad that these days its all about PERFORMANCE, LIGHTWEIGHT, HANDLING, RIDE, DYNAMICS, GRIP, CORNERING, and all that dumb stuff. Dont get me wrong, I love all that, but they are 2nd priority for me. 1st is comfort and cruising and luxury and relaxed driving............

Ferrari, a brand known for performance, can create HARDTOPS. apparently the next gen 812 will have folding hardtop just like portofino. McLaren, also another performance brand, also has hardtops. I absolutely love Mercedes but from this perspective I kinda dislike them because of their insistence on going soft top. IS THE AMG GT NOT ENOUGH? lol. I feel like the SL and AMG GT will be very similar to each other, except the SL will be more luxurious, thats it.

But because development has been handed to AMG, a brand who I truly truly love, it will be 99% sure that, since they are obsessed with performance and lightweight and all those things I mentioned above, it will go soft top 99%, which I hate.
You won't find anyone disagreeing on hardtops. But 2+2 hard tops are not an option space and weight-wise. The design is clumsy, problematic and the result downright ugly. BMW 3 series cab and Volvo were examples of that.
Ferrari isn't creating these hardtops btw. Virtually all folding hardtops were/are designed by one company which was founded by Mercedes & Porsche (CTS) and later sold to Magna. McLaren's top is more of less the same as Porsche Targa, moving a roof plate into a motorized cover.
Old 04-21-2019, 12:01 AM
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You mentioned Ferrari isnt creating these hardtops, but the Portofino is 2+2 with a hardtop right? It is being used right there.
Old 04-21-2019, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by adityaw
You mentioned Ferrari isnt creating these hardtops, but the Portofino is 2+2 with a hardtop right? It is being used right there.
Ferrari installs them but it isn’t designed or manufactured by them, which was my point. It is true it is a 2+2 and it will likely fit a couple legless Italians in the back. The layout works for them as the Portofino roof of is actually smaller than the current SL.

I guess I was looking at it from a Mercedes standpoint and how they design 2+2’s. We know that Mercedes can do hard tops and is deciding to do soft tops.
Old 04-23-2019, 01:11 AM
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I just don't get why no one is willing to wait to see what they come up with before writing off the next SL as being something it's not. Mercedes does vehicles of vastly differing character and capabilities on the same platform all the time, so why in the world would anyone here think that they can't do the same with the AMG GT and the SL? All this end of the world talk is just the silliest thing like ever. Mercedes wouldn't even bother making another SL AND AMG GT if they're going to be the same car. Of course the SL is going to still be luxury. They know the SL is the cruiser to the sports cars that the AMG GT is.

Moers confirmed the SL, which will launch by 2021, will be “aligned” with the next AMG GT. Both cars will share a new aluminium-intensive platform, known internally as the Modular Sports Architecture (MSA), in an attempt to increase the economies of scale and overall profitability of two of Mercedes’ most exclusive model lines.

Autocar first scooped the new SL last October and now Moers has confirmed details of it.

“We’re bringing back the historic DNA of the SL," he said. "It's far sportier [this time round]. It will have a perfect compromise between driving dynamics and comfort because it’s still kind of a cruiser too.”

This is the first time AMG has overseen development of an SL.

Moers said: “Handing over SL to AMG as the performance and sports car brand is great. There’s lots of responsibility behind that, and I’m really honoured.”

He also confirmed that the eight-generation SL would be offered only as a roadster, like its predecessor.

Autocar has previously reported that the model will receive a traditional fabric hood in place of the folding hard-top arrangement that has been used for the past two incarnations of the SL.

Overall, the SL will be revived as a lighter, faster and more engaging model, which is why AMG has been tasked with heading up the project.

SL and GT sharing

As well as sharing a common platform structure, the two upmarket Mercedes sports cars are expected to share axle assemblies, suspension, steering systems, 48V electric architecture and hybrid drivetrains, among other components, in a move to cut costs and boost production efficiency. The new SL and GT will be built alongside each other at Mercedes’ plant in Sindelfingen, Germany.

Early plans to base a successor to today’s smaller SLC off the same underpinnings have been abandoned following a recent decision not to replace the junior Mercedes roadster due to dwindling sales.

Early prototypes of the new SL were spied testing on track with the new platform underneath a shortened S-Class Coupé body. They give away little about the car’s mechanical set-up, which is rumoured to run a transaxle arrangement with a dual-clutch automatic gearbox integrated within the rear axle assembly, like on the GT. However, the overall dimensions of the engineering mules suggest the production version will be slightly larger than the existing SL, which is 4630mm long, 1870mm wide and 1310mm tall.

The adoption of the MSA platform is claimed to have had a positive effect on the styling of the new SL, whose proportions are said to be more in keeping with earlier incarnations of the classic roadster than the current model, which shares a platform with saloon models such as the C-Class, E-Class, CLS and S-Class.

A Mercedes source told Autocar that the new SL receives a longer bonnet and more rearward-positioned cabin. “The new platform has given us more freedom,” the source said. “There’s more distance between the front axle and the front firewall. This gives it more traditional proportions.”

The decision to replace the folding hard-top of today’s SL with a more compact fabric hood is also said to have provided greater scope in the styling of the rear of the new model. “It’s much more shapely, especially at the rear, because it is no longer dictated in height and width for the packaging of the hard-top roof,” the source added.

In a further departure from today’s model, it is also expected that Mercedes will provide the 2020 SL with a 2+2 seating layout. Autocar has been told that AMG is keen to give the new SL the same sort of practicality as the Porsche 911, with a set of rear seats capable of accommodating adults for short journeys or, alternatively, luggage as an extension of its boot.

SL to get hybrid line-up

Mercedes plans to offer the SL with a limited range of hybridised in-line six-cylinder and V8 petrol engines in a line-up that’s likely to include both standard and AMG models.

The range is understood to start with an SL450 EQ Boost model running a turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder developing around 365bhp, along with an added 22bhp in combination with an integrated starter motor.

Further up will be the SL53, which will run a more powerful AMG-tuned version of the SL450 EQ Boost’s mild-hybrid drivetrain with around 430bhp and added 22bhp through electric assistance.

Among the V8-powered models will be the SL500 EQ Boost. It is due to receive a turbocharged 4.0-litre V8 with a similar power output to the SL53, but significantly more torque. Topping the range will be the SL63. It is likely to offered in two states of tune, with the most powerful model running a turbocharged 4.0-litre V8 capable of in excess of 600bhp and more than 30bhp of electric boost. It is unclear if Mercedes will continue with the V12-powered SL, although, given the potential output of the SL63, it would seem unlikely.

All engines for the new SL will come as standard with Mercedes’ nine-speed automatic gearbox, with the AMG variants set to adopt the Speedshift electronics package for faster shift times. Suggestions are that Mercedes could offer 4Matic four-wheel drive alongside standard rear-wheel drive, although this has yet to be confirmed.

Despite the SL’s market repositioning, it won’t completely abandon the luxury focus, so expect the interior to be almost as opulent as Mercedes’ other high-end models. It will be more driver-focused than cars such as the S-Class Coupé, but there could still be plenty of the brand’s latest driver assist systems drafted in, including its semi-autonomous Drive Pilot function.

Additional reporting by Rachel Burgess

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...tier-says-boss

M
Old 04-23-2019, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Germancar1
I just don't get why no one is willing to wait to see what they come up with before writing off the next SL as being something it's not. Mercedes does vehicles of vastly differing character and capabilities on the same platform all the time, so why in the world would anyone here think that they can't do the same with the AMG GT and the SL? All this end of the world talk is just the silliest thing like ever. Mercedes wouldn't even bother making another SL AND AMG GT if they're going to be the same car. Of course the SL is going to still be luxury. They know the SL is the cruiser to the sports cars that the AMG GT is.




https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...tier-says-boss

M
I like your positivity, but the reason I feel hopeless is because literally every article I have read on the SL says it will be soft top....

EDIT: even the source that you posted mentioned this:

"The decision to replace the folding hard-top of today’s SL with a more compact fabric hood is also said to have provided greater scope in the styling of the rear of the new model. “It’s much more shapely, especially at the rear, because it is no longer dictated in height and width for the packaging of the hard-top roof,” the source added."

It is pretty much confirmed, right?


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