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I don't think many if anybody else is wanting to run NOS on these cars. Maybe I am wrong but I think you are going down the wrong path. Hopefully the Turbo upgrades will be sufficient to push this platform without the NOS.
My thinking is that you are trying to fill the low end turbo lag with NOS which will make the car just another 1/4 junky. Throw in an electric motor to fill the low end and then you may have something.
As before, there's no significant turbo lag with the setup that's on the car now (which, per Phil, I will be able to "fully reveal" later this week) for the nitrous to compensate for, but your thinking would probably apply to a number of possible setups. As for nitrous, when I was at Renntech a number of years ago (which did run hidden NOS setups on several cars, by the way), Hartmut claimed there was "zero interest" in a V12 Mercedes with more power than what RT's PKG 3 was, at the time (ECU/TCU, airboxes, heat exchanger, IC pump, and mufflers). As Speedriven speeds into its sixth year of specializing in taking the V12s further (or, should I say "spees into"?), I am happy to report that he was wrong. I have to go with my gut and say that we can deliver a "9 second runs all day" type of car that is totally streetable, and still every inch a Mercedes (smooth, MB drivetrain, full interior, climate control, leather, good audio, etc.). How we get there, whether it's with a flex fuel solution or an electric motor or just, you know, good tuning and lots of math, isn't going to matter as much as the final execution and end result, I think.
That said, I get about 2-3 calls about nitrous a month, and have literally never been asked about an electric motor. PM me, though- I'd *love* to look into it. Maybe front-mounted hub motors for an AWD pull out of the box??
This came from Phil in regards to the turbo lag issue and the use of NOS to get a good jump. He means N2O not NO2.
"I have been low 10's the NO2 help the turbo lag issue and quite frankly it was needed to break 10 . I am excited about the new build which should put me in the 8's."
You get to a point where the individual nozzles get so small that they clog, then you lean out, so it's a weird balance. You need to have a shot of a certain size to be reliable, but then you need to build the engine so it can handle that much of a hit and still be reliable.
As before, there's no significant turbo lag with the setup that's on the car now (which, per Phil, I will be able to "fully reveal" later this week) for the nitrous to compensate for, but your thinking would probably apply to a number of possible setups. As for nitrous, when I was at Renntech a number of years ago (which did run hidden NOS setups on several cars, by the way), Hartmut claimed there was "zero interest" in a V12 Mercedes with more power than what RT's PKG 3 was, at the time (ECU/TCU, airboxes, heat exchanger, IC pump, and mufflers). As Speedriven speeds into its sixth year of specializing in taking the V12s further (or, should I say "spees into"?)How we get there, whether it's with a flex fuel solution or an electric motor or just, you know, good tuning and lots of math, isn't going to matter as much as the final execution and end result, I think.
I couldn't agree less. The way I get there determines if I want to go. If I have to run NOS or E85, he'll no I don't want it. If I was going to do all that, I would just go build a Mustang that could run 8's for around $10k.
I want a streetable car that runs pump gas and can hit 9's at 150 mph. No way no how do I want to deal with NOS or E85. Makes no sense on these cars. A tune that I could easily switch back to pump gas would be fine but not if I had to run it all the time.
The hub mounted electric motors is kinda what I had in mind. I feel NOS is a step back not forward but each to his own.
It would be interesting, but I'm not convinced it's that much of a step forward. It's certainly "on trend", though. Would be a neat marketing play ... you should do it.
I want a streetable car that runs pump gas and can hit 9's at 150 mph. No way no how do I want to deal with NOS or E85. Makes no sense on these cars. A tune that I could easily switch back to pump gas would be fine but not if I had to run it all the time.
As I mentioned in my original post that you couldn't agree less with, the final execution is what matters. If you had to go running around hunting for E85, then the final execution of your build wouldn't be awesome. The idea that you'd have to switch back and forth between an E85 and a pump gas tune, though, is several years out of date now that there is reliable flex fuel technology that can optimize the car more or less "on the fly".
Let me put it another way, though, since you seem to be focused on the convenience aspect:
Imagine I delivered you a car that was a pump gas superstar, delivering 1000 HP and driving as smoothly and serenely as a stock car when cruising around town or at 75 on the highway. Your buddy wants to go to the track to show off his new Viper and you're thinking, "Awesome, wait until he sees this!" On the way to the track there's a Sunoco station that you know has 100 octane. You're at half a tank, so you put in half a tank of 100 and meet your buddy on the track. Without you doing ANYTHING AT ALL, the car has figured out it's got some good stuff in it and adjusts accordingly. No cords, no laptops, just a spur of the moment power boost of about 50-60 HP once you mash the throttle.
That is a properly executed car, and it's a far, far cry from the mythical $10K 8-second Mustang.
Wow this has become like a cheesy pep rally for V12TTs
Originally Posted by BlownV8
I think I read it was a 150 shot.
Where did you read this? I'm not doubting you, its just that I glanced at Speedriven's link and the one from MBWorld and didn't notice it on either, its too bad this wasn't said initially from either the owner or tuner.
Originally Posted by Speedriven1
As I mentioned in my original post that you couldn't agree less with, the final execution is what matters. If you had to go running around hunting for E85, then the final execution of your build wouldn't be awesome. The idea that you'd have to switch back and forth between an E85 and a pump gas tune, though, is several years out of date now that there is reliable flex fuel technology that can optimize the car more or less "on the fly".
Let me put it another way, though, since you seem to be focused on the convenience aspect:
Imagine I delivered you a car that was a pump gas superstar, delivering 1000 HP and driving as smoothly and serenely as a stock car when cruising around town or at 75 on the highway. Your buddy wants to go to the track to show off his new Viper and you're thinking, "Awesome, wait until he sees this!" On the way to the track there's a Sunoco station that you know has 100 octane. You're at half a tank, so you put in half a tank of 100 and meet your buddy on the track. Without you doing ANYTHING AT ALL, the car has figured out it's got some good stuff in it and adjusts accordingly. No cords, no laptops, just a spur of the moment power boost of about 50-60 HP once you mash the throttle.
That is a properly executed car, and it's a far, far cry from the mythical $10K 8-second Mustang.
Glad to see the boys at Speedriven are back at it again, after a long time away. For a while there were so many customers having a tough time reaching you and getting parts, it left the future of new V12TT upgrades looking grim.
I'm a little confused, for 5+years I would run 93 octane, 100 octane, and even MS109 without ever touching my tune. The car always responded well, even with super cool weather. Are you saying "YOU" have new tuning for flex fuel technology for our old cars that would allow you to use the same tune for E85. No adjustments would be needed to run a nitrous car either? I'm personally not looking at it from a convenience point of view, as much as consistent power. It may be in the future of newer cars but not these.
Just a quick glance back to 7.5 yrs ago when Stephen's S600 ran a 150 shot as the only thing added, the car responded just as well. Now shed 500 lbs, add bigger turbos remove cats and launch at 26 lbs of boost, of course you will run another .6 seconds faster with an SL. I'm not so impressed... If it can be done without the 150 shot and not launching at 3500 RPMs then it will be more of how I enjoy driving my car. I can't picture it to be an easy feat to have a turbo design that can give you little lag and still deliver big boost up top. Also, a smooth transmission at low RPMs. We want our cake and to eat it too. No loss of comfort and more power than anything else around us.
I'm a little confused, for 5+years I would run 93 octane, 100 octane, and even MS109 without ever touching my tune. The car always responded well, even with super cool whether. Are you saying "YOU" have new tuning for flex fuel technology for our old cars that would allow you to use the same tune for E85. No adjustments would be needed to run a nitrous car either? I'm personally not looking at it from a convenience point of view, as much as consistent power. It may be in the future of newer cars but not these.
The cars do pick up until they sense knock, which is why they keep adding boost with more fuel. The point I was making was that there is now sufficient technology that a true flex fuel car is possible without the owner having to sit in the car and juggle files.
The owner Phil posted on boostaddicts and said he used the 150 shot.
I think what speedriven are planning is a stand alone ECU and some way of switching the tune or some way to convert to flex fuel technology.
I agree that the time means nothing to me using NOS, it may as well not have happened.
I do not like that Speedriven put their name to the time without declaring it. Then saying other tuners have done it so it must be ok.
I am also very pleased that this platform is still being worked on however the way these results went down was wrong.
Well said Couldn't of said it better, or agree more..
What a total & complete joke, new guy pops up outta no where, runs basement 10's then a few days later mythical 9's & not even the quietest mouse fart is heard about the hidden ghey nitrous, just a GT42 turbo yada w/3k stall or whatvr it was made us ALL in stupidity.. Then a few wks later they come out of the proverbial closet "Did we mention it has 150 shot?? lol no big deal, it'll still run 9's w/out it"
Does the 150 shot install come with a free Lube Job too ?? Or is it just shoehorned in w/the spit outta their mouth as that it is ALL it's worth in this conversation..
I'm here Trackstar Looks like they admitted Nitrous & Race gas was used on these latest records, highly disappointing on Nitrous, but... At least they let the cat outta the bag.. Edify us on which Record ET's/Traps of yours were made w/just how much Nitrous & Race fuel? Per memory & I'm certain I can easily fish-up your old posts where you claim 93 pump ONLY on your best records phhbbttt Not to mention whatever YOU call/quantify"Full Interior/Full Weight" lol
I'm here Trackstar Looks like they admitted Nitrous & Race gas was used on these latest records, highly disappointing on Nitrous, but... At least they let the cat outta the bag.. Edify us on which Record ET's/Traps of yours were made w/just how much Nitrous & Race fuel? Per memory & I'm certain I can easily fish-up your old posts where you claim 93 pump ONLY on your best records phhbbttt Not to mention whatever YOU call/quantify"Full Interior/Full Weight" lol
Not gonna get into this again with you. Big turbos and a 150 shot and yet still traps slower than my ricer hoopty
ZERO nitrous (keep hating) and C16. Go fish up where I claimed 93 octane pump gas loser. I am always factual about the state of my car, so if I said I did X on that day that's exactly what I did. Before you go pull up a 5 year old thread and say SEE you claimed pump gas... I used to run 93 octane pump gas with the Kleemann blower. Switched to Q16 with the Weistec and most recently C16. My current records are on C16. I've never stated otherwise.
Keep swinging from other peoples nuts and trying to tarnish my accomplishments from 3,000 miles away because YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T ACCOMPLISH IT YOURSELF. I will have vids soon, make sure you have your excuses and accusations ready. The end.
Well said Couldn't of said it better, or agree more..
What a total & complete joke, new guy pops up outta no where, runs basement 10's then a few days later mythical 9's & not even the quietest mouse fart is heard about the hidden ghey nitrous, just a GT42 turbo yada w/3k stall or whatvr it was made us ALL in stupidity.. Then a few wks later they come out of the proverbial closet "Did we mention it has 150 shot?? lol no big deal, it'll still run 9's w/out it"
Does the 150 shot install come with a free Lube Job too ?? Or is it just shoehorned in w/the spit outta their mouth as that it is ALL it's worth in this conversation..
Y'all going to.respond to this? Must say I too was very disappointed. More questions than answers at this point.
Awesome numbers no matter who built the thing or what vendor claims they built it. Not a fan of spray myself but congrats on the 9's. Shed any light on what the nitrous setup was?
To be honest, I started the discussion in another forum with my very subtle question why difference 129mph - 141 MPH with nearly same 60FT etc., and it was clear for me that something must be behind the curtain...
I just don't wanted to to name an involved Tuner using NOS without a real proof...
But truth nearly always comes out with the time, and everyone can make their own picture of all parties involved...
To be honest, I started the discussion in another forum with my very subtle question why difference 129mph - 141 MPH with nearly same 60FT etc., and it was clear for me that something must be behind the curtain...
I just don't wanted to to name an involved Tuner using NOS without a real proof...
But truth nearly always comes out with the time, and everyone can make their own picture of all parties involved...
Maybe this has been discussed and I missed it but... Does anyone know the whp on the SL in question? Wondering what it's putting down to just barely trap 129 with a big turbo setup.. Makes me really wonder what they have in mind to turn that into an 8 second car. While getting rid of the nitrous.
I just think it's funny that I get accused of so much crap but the people that are actually being shady are the ones that get supported by the same people...
Anybody hear what happened to the OP's car? If it's ready lets go to the track.
I just think it's funny that I get accused of so much crap but the people that are actually being shady are the ones that get supported by the same people...
.
After what has happened and all the shady posts, I believe he had a change in his beliefs about said company. It just sucks. We all wanted to believe but now we all feel like we've been deceived. Shady was the right word.
Guys, I'm just going to chime in here on behalf of all the "shady" money racers out there. Most guys who run fast cars and race for money don't want to talk about what their cars run or what hardware they have under the hood. Sometimes they run at test and tune days with the clocks off. Other times, when they do talk about their cars, they're not fully truthful because they're waiting for the next guy to come along and spend a bunch money to "prove" their car isn't as fast as they say it is.
Don't misunderstand me, though. I get that we all have a desire to know what everyone else is running on their car(s) because we're all enthusiasts and we're all excited about this stuff ... but a desire to know doesn't equal a right to know, and if I shake a guy's hand and tell him "I won't tell people what setup you're running" there is nothing shady about, you know, not telling people what setup he's running. There's nothing "shady" in keeping your word to your customers.
That said, the car is on its way from Arizona and should be arriving any day. Once it's here and torn down, all will be revealed. As we've said from the beginning.
So, for those of you who are excited about one of these cars running in 9s, thanks for sticking around! You'll learn all about what's involved in the next few days, and we look forward to sharing in your excitement when this car runs 8s!
Last edited by Speedriven1; 08-27-2015 at 11:57 AM.
Reason: Adding pictures.
Is this going to be a 9 second track day queen or is this going to be an every day driver capable setup? With as many repairs as my car has had, putting that much power into sounds like more repair bills than my car is worth.
Is this going to be a 9 second track day queen or is this going to be an every day driver capable setup? With as many repairs as my car has had, putting that much power into sounds like more repair bills than my car is worth.
A 9 second track day queen is a SLOW track queen. (maybe a "track day maiden" or "track day neice"?) I can tell you that the car, as it ran the 10.2 and 9.9, is Phil's driver. Going further will require some reinforced internals, which is a big part of why the car is coming.
Give it a few days, kids. Patience is a virtue. LOL
08-25-2015, 11:55 AM
in stupidity.. Then a few wks later they come out of the proverbial closet
?? Or is it just shoehorned in w/the spit outta their mouth as that it is ALL it's worth in this conversation..
posts where you claim 93 pump ONLY
on your best records phhbbttt
