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SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
As for the intakes and exhaust, that was my project last winter. I was looking for a custom 3 inch exhaust system for an SL65 and I couldn't find anything. The most I found was downpipes from Kleemann, Speedriven, and Supersprint and mufflers from Meisershaft, Renntech, and there was prob a few more. So instead of just buying some down pipes from one company and mufflers from another with no mid section I had my shop do a custom 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust from the turbos all the way to the tips
The flange from the existing exhaust was hacked off and bored so it could fit the 3 inch piping. As it goes down the mid section at the end you can see the dual electric exhaust cutouts. That way instead of driving with no mufflers I could open and close the valves for how loud I wanted the car. Finally as it goes to the high flow mufflers and out the stock exhaust tips. The exhaust system have 3 addition V bands one where the downpipes meet the mid section, one where the mid section meets the cutouts, and one where the cutouts meet the lower section.
I have few questions....
-Are those mufflers Dynomax race bullet mufflers 24215?
-I have order them. Now I have muffler delete.How have the sound changed after you install them?
I found this clip http://www.dynomax.com/sounds-of-dyn...bullet-muffler
...oh yeah, not that anyone really cares, but my car was also stock IC's and piping, stock airbox and filter, stock intake, no CAI, etc...
I agree... I'm very interested to see the results of this "experiment".
A lots to be gained w/these heat monsters in cool air w/negative DA, as far as I know EVERY RECORD on near stock 65's IE ecu/tcu drag rads... Has been in Negative DA w/cool air etc... Not to take ANYTHING AWAY from your 10.99 but I'll bet $1,000.00 bux if it was the reverse and you ran in Posistive +400 DA @ higher Ambient temps that 10.99 just wouldn't be... These v12 turbos require cool dry air @ or near Sea Level on a sticky good hooking track or, a similarly modded 65 would be in the low 11's @ best
Seeing our name tossed around a lot in this thread so here is some clarification on the numbers aspect. This is base boost on pump gas.
For various reasons, not all information is available to the general public but you should get a pretty good idea of what is going on if you know how to read these.
As previously stated, Jody's runs were done on pump gas 5+ years ago and a lot has changed since then.
Might be a dumb question but I come from dsm's and supras but why is everyone staying around the 20-25psi range? I'm sure the car can handle 30+psi long before it hits any fuel cut. Do the turbos not generate any more power from the 25psi range?
Also wanted to point out that the car pictured with the front mount cai isn't a sl. Our hood latches are right in the middle of the pathway where piping would run making it much more of a pain to do.
Last edited by euphoriaDSM; 12-01-2014 at 04:27 PM.
Seeing our name tossed around a lot in this thread so here is some clarification on the numbers aspect. This is base boost on pump gas.
For various reasons, not all information is available to the general public but you should get a pretty good idea of what is going on if you know how to read these.
As previously stated, Jody's runs were done on pump gas 5+ years ago and a lot has changed since then.
I know Jody saw 700 whp on hi octane he told me... I was more doubting V12ttEnthusiast being able to gain ANYTHING CLOSE TO 830-840 whp even on q16 w/all his port/polish etc mods & 1 off intercooler setup etc.. no Doubt if Zax63's S65 build ran in colder weather on 100-109 he'd of made 700 whp.. Per Zax63's post when build was finished he noted pump 93 got him..
Originally Posted by Zax63
Done! On its way home!
I didn't make quite the power I wanted, 679.64 on the dyno je
Ths was w/your latest ECU/TCU w/everything but trunk res.. It was Done in May of 2014 I think race gas is a must, as Zax63build had a superior CAI maybe the missing trunk reservoir full off ice? not trying to discredit your exceptional builds, I think every 65/600 just doesn't have the same potential depending on mileage etc..
This is what brought my interest further into V12ttenthusiasts beyond lofty expectations..
Originally Posted by V12TTenthusiast
Even if its 20-30 rwhp, I'll be happy to be honest, I want to hit somewhere around 720-730 rwhp but even if I hit 710+ on 93 octane I wont complain. I want to hit that 830-840 with Q16/C16 and hit 1000 crank hp as my end result. So trying to be as creative as possible finding ways into squeeze more hp.
This is basically where trying to squeeze out any additional horsepower beyond simple mods start costing $$$. I was trying to see if maybe I could do something like a 90 mm TB or bore out the stock 82 mm tb, but I could prob only get maybe 2 more mms. The intake manifold wont let you go to 90 mm as the 55 guys are able to do since the tb goes straight into the intake manifold.
I just really wish there was a working big turbo kit that didn't add just 100 rwhp for the 65s. IMO 798 on a mix of pump/race gas that Speedriven had on that SL65 didn't seem worth the cost. I was kinda hoping after 3 years they made at least 900 rwhp on there kits cause I was ready to buy one. But who knows maybe in another year they will have one ready and I'll buy it or just start trying to make my own when I buy a 911 turbo next fall so I can have my SL65 sitting in the winter while I have another performance car to drive with AWD in case of any snow lol.
Plus if a big turbo kit does come out, those heads will maximize those gains so that's a plus lol, but just going into the unknown on this car will at least be fun to see what happens plus will give other people insight if the heads turn out to be a good mod to do if you have everything else done on the M275
Might be a dumb question but I come from dsm's and supras but why is everyone staying around the 20-25psi range? I'm sure the car can handle 30+psi long before it hits any fuel cut. Do the turbos not generate any more power from the 25psi range?
When you look at the tiny little blades and housings from the stock turbos, this should answer your question. And second with 6.0 Liter displacement you have a LOT of air being used to build up boost efficiently...
@Speedriven
Thanks for the Dyno-Graph. Is the Graph with billets, stock turbine housing and Intake, Coolers etc. in a 65 or base boost in a GT30-Headers-Turbo-Car ?
Last edited by AMG-Driver; 12-02-2014 at 07:04 AM.
When you come from Supras, you should know a lot about turbo sizes, Turbo efficiency, housings and that more boost sometimes means not more power..
There is also another reason why we don't see more than aprox.22 PSI, but I don't want to go into more details. This is the tuners part to figure out...
Do you have an eta on completion? And who is doing the work? I'm Curious how it will run. Any day we will get snow and car will either go to storage or I will send it for some work. Still tossing around what tuner and what route to go.
06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
Sorry I've been sick this past week (not sure if I caught something from all the people over thanksgiving or during the AMG meetup in Rockvile MD)
I got an email from the MB dealer in Kansas that I ordered my parts from, looks like all the parts from Germany are in and all the parts will be here Monday. After that shouldn't be long, only thing left is finishing fabbing up the top mount inter coolers and finish up any work left on the turbo. The inlet where the intake and the turbo meets looks like is gonna be hacked off and fitted with a larger inlet pipe. As for the other pipe where the air exits into the TB, my tuner is see if there is any benefit in making that tiny pipe larger or not, problem that could arise is loss in velocity.
I picked up my old blades last week, they are 2.5 inches in diameter. As you can see from the new billet wheels that come up all the way to the top are about 1 CM taller then the OEM cast wheels and the blades are redesigned.
But now all the parts are here looks like it will be done asap. Looks like the turbos on an R230 V12 might also wiggle out of the sub frame like they do on the S/CL's, my tuner is gonna see if it possible. If it is, it should save people a lot more time to do the turbo swap then the suggested 20 hr book time for the job.
06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
Originally Posted by Ekselent
I have few questions....
-Are those mufflers Dynomax race bullet mufflers 24215?
-I have order them. Now I have muffler delete.How have the sound changed after you install them?
I found this clip http://www.dynomax.com/sounds-of-dyn...bullet-muffler
Thank you.
Juha
Honesty I have no idea what mufflers they are I had my tuner just pick out what ever he thought best and would fit my car, but I'll ask him tomorrow and let you know, but im sure there prob just any old generic high flow mufflers. As for the sound it has a nice growl still and no drone with the high flow mufflers and no cats but it doesn't have as a loud sound as no mufflers and no cats when you hit the redline. That's why I did the dual electric cut outs so I could toggle the sound.
When the cutouts are open the car is very loud esp when car shifts after the redline when it makes loud popping sounds, but when you have a headache and you don't want any drone at 40-50 mph then cutouts are nice to have to have the exhaust flowing back to the high flow mufflers.
If you want the best of both worlds and control the sound, pay an additional 350-450 for cutouts and you can fit them in the midsection no problem. You can either opt for remote control or put a toggle switch in the car. I put mine above the OBD II port.
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
Originally Posted by V12TTenthusiast
Honesty I have no idea what mufflers they are I had my tuner just pick out what ever he thought best and would fit my car, but I'll ask him tomorrow and let you know, but im sure there prob just any old generic high flow mufflers. As for the sound it has a nice growl still and no drone with the high flow mufflers and no cats but it doesn't have as a loud sound as no mufflers and no cats when you hit the redline. That's why I did the dual electric cut outs so I could toggle the sound.
When the cutouts are open the car is very loud esp when car shifts after the redline when it makes loud popping sounds, but when you have a headache and you don't want any drone at 40-50 mph then cutouts are nice to have to have the exhaust flowing back to the high flow mufflers.
If you want the best of both worlds and control the sound, pay an additional 350-450 for cutouts and you can fit them in the midsection no problem. You can either opt for remote control or put a toggle switch in the car. I put mine above the OBD II port.
Thank you.
My Dynomax mufflers arrive today.
Regarding your engine uppgrade.
I understand fully why you're doing it this way . Of course the bigger turbos make more power for sure but I have not read or seen anybody else who have do it this way. No facts... only assumptions.
If you don't get enough of power you need only install bigger turbos and I'm 100% sure you gone get more power vs who install only the bigger turbos because you already have the head work done....
Good luck
06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
Originally Posted by Ekselent
Thank you.
My Dynomax mufflers arrive today.
Regarding your engine uppgrade.
I understand fully why you're doing it this way . Of course the bigger turbos make more power for sure but I have not read or seen anybody else who have do it this way. No facts... only assumptions.
If you don't get enough of power you need only install bigger turbos and I'm 100% sure you gone get more power vs who install only the bigger turbos because you already have the head work done....
Good luck
Juha
I found out the mufflers that are used are just universal Borla Mufflers with a 3 inch inlet for the exhaust piping and a 2.5 inch outlet for the tips. Engine gets reassembled starting Monday of next week, and mostly likely the custom top mount intercoolers the end of following due to Christmas break. After that all that's left is tuning.
I found a good deal on some spare heads so I might start doing more aggressive work on the other pair throughout the year. I'm even after putting 30k of miles during my 2 years of ownership I'm still at 63k miles which is a lot imo for mix city/highway driving in Washington D.C area. Four months of not driving my car was bad enough and I'll prob have to keep it away for another 2 more months while its winter here, so I have time to put my body kit on.
But as for a big turbo kit I feel in all honesty that's all year project. It's one thing to fab up the kit but most of the work is tuning. From what I've seen from a few friends that have crazy custom turbo/supercharger kits, tuning can take around 1-2 years easily. Usually shops won't spend all there time tuning a car for several hours at a time. From what I've seen there will be times every 1-2 weeks where hours are put into the tune, but the shop conducting the work usually has to keep working on other cars in the shop that they can bang out quick to keep themselves in business. Furthermore if you don't live near a major tuner your either left with the option of shipping the car off, or going through a local shop that is a dealer for a tuning company, but can take longer to tune since that all depends on both shops.
At 63kish miles I want to put another 30-40 miles on it before I replace it with another performance car as my daily while I can let my current car sit as long as it needs to. Plus I figured with all the mods I'm doing now there could be a 50/50 chance I'm gonna have the transmission bust on me at some point *knock on wood* and do a rebuilt transmission. If I did a big turbo kit now, then no question the transmission needs to be rebuilt. Finally idk how much turbo lag is in a big turbo kit and I do a lot of my work in the city so I'd prob be in a car jerking all over the place. For now I want something that has good power as well as daily drive-ability, once I get a replacement, then i'll do a crazy big turbo kit, without the need to drive it since I have something else for my performance needs.
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
Originally Posted by V12TTenthusiast
I found out the mufflers that are used are just universal Borla Mufflers with a 3 inch inlet for the exhaust piping and a 2.5 inch outlet for the tips. Engine gets reassembled starting Monday of next week, and mostly likely the custom top mount intercoolers the end of following due to Christmas break. After that all that's left is tuning.
I found a good deal on some spare heads so I might start doing more aggressive work on the other pair throughout the year. I'm even after putting 30k of miles during my 2 years of ownership I'm still at 63k miles which is a lot imo for mix city/highway driving in Washington D.C area. Four months of not driving my car was bad enough and I'll prob have to keep it away for another 2 more months while its winter here, so I have time to put my body kit on.
But as for a big turbo kit I feel in all honesty that's all year project. It's one thing to fab up the kit but most of the work is tuning. From what I've seen from a few friends that have crazy custom turbo/supercharger kits, tuning can take around 1-2 years easily. Usually shops won't spend all there time tuning a car for several hours at a time. From what I've seen there will be times every 1-2 weeks where hours are put into the tune, but the shop conducting the work usually has to keep working on other cars in the shop that they can bang out quick to keep themselves in business. Furthermore if you don't live near a major tuner your either left with the option of shipping the car off, or going through a local shop that is a dealer for a tuning company, but can take longer to tune since that all depends on both shops.
At 63kish miles I want to put another 30-40 miles on it before I replace it with another performance car as my daily while I can let my current car sit as long as it needs to. Plus I figured with all the mods I'm doing now there could be a 50/50 chance I'm gonna have the transmission bust on me at some point *knock on wood* and do a rebuilt transmission. If I did a big turbo kit now, then no question the transmission needs to be rebuilt. Finally idk how much turbo lag is in a big turbo kit and I do a lot of my work in the city so I'd prob be in a car jerking all over the place. For now I want something that has good power as well as daily drive-ability, once I get a replacement, then i'll do a crazy big turbo kit, without the need to drive it since I have something else for my performance needs.
Somebody else have also upgrade the V12 engine.. 860 hp..... and maybe 1000 hp next
Edit: I didn't note his 0-200km @ 10.62 that's FAST.. & 0-270km @ 19.89.. This S600 is hauling D ***...Deff has the 860 HP.. Those tires were obviously toasted & 0-100km is very hard to hook.. let alone they still ran a more than respectable #...
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
Specs
Here you can read a little more about the specs this engine have......
I'm little bit confused... they use OEM turbos. Modified in Germany.
I think this power level is enough for me. Must try to find out which company in Germany have made this turbo upgrade.
Here you can read a little more about the specs this engine have......
I'm little bit confused... they use OEM turbos. Modified in Germany.
I think this power level is enough for me. Must try to find out which company in Germany have made this turbo upgrade.
Great stuff! thnx for sharring... Though bulk of hp/tq in this swap is they utilized a 65 engine vs 600.. Then went to town..
What are the specialities?
The engine
„The 6.5-litre AMG engine came from the C215. Kasza completely dismantled it and made a list of the components we could utilize. Not much was left apart from the engine block, the crankshaft and the heads. The AMG con-rods would break in half at the sight of this kind of torque, plus, we needed special pistons, gudgeon pins, valves and bearings, too. Luckily there is a company in the US which produces specialized components for competition engines at an incredibly high standard – this is real low-volume car production from here. You just specify what you exactly want and you get the package a few weeks later. And, erm, you also receive a bill which is eye-watering. But then, you also get a guarantee on the parts supplied.
Marcin/Speedriven MORE THAN PROVED the internals are completely fine w/MUCH, MUCH, higher rwhp/tq Speedriven pushed a true 850 rwhp 970 rwtq, that equals 1,036 BHP nearly 1200 Crank torque, NO engine component failure whatsoever (though rebuilt tranns is obvious)
Very interesting they went w/Air to Air Intercooler vs OEM Air to Water...
Then came the issue with the intercooler. At the outset we couldn't decide between an air-to-liquid or an air-to-air cooler. In the end we chose the air-to-air version, although most known tuning firms use the air-to-liquid type. This way we might not get as much power initially, but what we have, we can depend on. According to our maths the air-to-liquid intercooler could in fact, get more power out of the engine, but there would come a sharp decline in output once the coolant of the engine had reached a high temperature. Even engine failure could occur in such a case.
So basically Billet Turbo swap vs in their vid they show giant Aftermarket snails.. They're obviously quoting Crank hp/tq #'s which = a very healthy 705 rwhp.. Wish they would've gone Air to Water IC's they left a ton of hp/tq on table IE further cooling Intake air would've added 50+ whp easily... I'm certain their trick true Ram-Air CAI added to the 700+ rwhp..
Most BRILLIANT part of this build!!!! Marcin, what about this Flux Capacitor ECU/ESP Bypass gig? Make your OWN version & then we can see truly wicked 1000-1500 whp when coupled to Speedriven gt30-35 turbo builds. You noted ECU/ESP freaks out when going North of 850 rwhp.. (Sounds better than Dyno Mode or line-lock etc? This is extremely interesting no? Or is your problem MORE related to JUST ECU itself?
We have now arrived to the biggest nut to crack – the ESP. We somehow had to give our customer an option to turn it off. But how sad, Mercedes doesn't have a software switch, nor any special program for providing such an overriding function with this engine-gearbox combo. Our electrician solved this by producing and setting up a counter-computer that tricks the car's own hardware into thinking that the wheels are properly rotating (whilst they're not). We finally got a car in which all electronic control can be turned off, except the ABS. I have been using the KO860 for a month now to have all the remaining glitches sorted, but I didn't dare try this button. I once turned it off to see if the button is working and that was all.
This little row of buttons on the middle console sums up the car perfectly: the horn button is for honking, the exhaust button means you'll get exhausted by the noise soon and the skull button means instant death,” he laughs.
I want a "Skull Button!" damnit! I'd have 1000-1500 WHP etched into it! If Marcin, could make this work??
Entire article on this build was a pleasure to read, ANY contact phn # etc for this guy? His writing was the Cherry on top of this build..
There came a nastier-style prod on the organ pedal from my side and in reaction I received a decidedly nastier death shove from the backrest accompanied with noises from the soundtrack of Jurassic Park. This is no child's play, this is Danger, spelt with a capital D, but of the more controllable kind. It then took me an hour of exploitation to get a vague idea of the KO860's capabilities. Yes, I have felt similar forces in my life, for example in a Ferrari 458 three years ago... and... there was the CBR1000RR Honda, too, which I had for a weekend... And there was that elevator in New York but that doesn't count because I was drunk... But hey, right now I'm driving a car that weighs more than two tons and I'm completely sober! What powers are working here?
Death shove from back lol.. Soundtrack from Jurassic park etc etc pure gems...
Just found this vid... Mercedes KO 860 vs Lamborghini and Porsche accele…:
Interesting Built! I posted this car a while ago over in *********...(another forum)
What is most impressive to me is, to couple an M275 with the "can bus" from the old S-Class and to make everything running good, electronically...
As for the horsepower output, o.k. the say 860 Crank-HP. It would be interesting to see on which dyno, because I am not a fan of comparing speedo videos. We don't know the calibration of the Speedo in that car...
I know Crank-Power is not so important in U.S.-Tuning. But for us in Germany it is, because we use different dynos etc.
Real 860 Crank-HP is more in the 740-750 WHP Range than 705 RWP. And I doubt that this is possible with the original Turbo housing and stock headers. No doubt the car is fast, but I doubt this Crank-HP with the stock Turbine Housing and stock headers. If, than only with the Black Series Turbine Housings (with changed internals).
I know everyone here calculate always 18% losses from the drivetrain, but there is a mistake in this calculation. Luke, the owner of Renntech Germany explained it to me and you can trust me, he knows his stuff.
When a stock SL65 has factory rating 612 Crank-HP (which I found out to be true in different cars) this is approx.500-505 RWP. o.k. so approx.18% drivetrain loss. Then you tune your car.
The losses in the gearbox rise also with the tuning, BUT BY FAR NOT SO MUCH AS THE Horsepower RISES!!! This is the important point. The losses nearly stay in the range they were measured with the stock car. The losses are also nearly lets say 100-120 HP in the 860 Crank HP Car. So this relates to lets say 740-750 whp.in this S Class. I cannot explain it better in my "bad english in the morning", but I hope it is understandable.
O.K. and know I am curious, what SET-UP they want to come up with to get over 1000 HP. I wish them good luck!!
Last edited by AMG-Driver; 12-15-2014 at 03:04 AM.