dsb

Alright boys and girls. I need your help. I'm trying to decide on which tires to use on the track. I have aftermarket 19's but I wish to use my stock 18". The tires, especially the rears, are worn. I want to get some aggressive tires just for the track. I would also like to get a little more traction if possible. I don't want to spend $300 a tire so that eliminates quite a few manufacturers. Instead, I'd like to keep it around $200 a tire. Also, I don't necessarily need race slicks. Besides, I hear they take some getting use to and you may find yourself suddenly breaking loose.

So, I want 18" tires with better traction than the OE setup. I have to be cautious since I have already lowered my car with Brabus springs. Anything too aggressive might rub. I don't want to spend a fortune. Here's some tires I've considered.



OE rears (for example) (prices primarily from tirerack)
Contisport 2 treadwear 280
245/35/18
width 9.64 diameter 24.75

Option 1 $225
Goodyear F1 gsd3 treadwear 280
255/35/18
width 10.2 diameter 25

Option 2 $180 treadwear 300
BF Goodrich KDW2
255/35/18
width 10.2 diameter 25

Option 3 $230 treadwear 240
Dunlop SP SportMaxx
255/35/18
width 10.2 diameter 25

Option 4 $178 treadwear 200
Falken Azeni RT615 (i hear these are great but sizing may be an issue)
245/40/18
width 9.64 diameter 25.7

Option 5 $165 treadwear 200
Falken Azeni RT615 (i hear these are great but sizing may be an issue)
235/40/18
width 9.25 diameter 25.4

Option 6 $171 treadwear
Toyo Proxes T1R
255/35/18
width 10.2 diameter 25

Any suggestions/recommendations?

catalystkid

Twisty track or drag strip?

dsb

road course, no drag for me

catalystkid

I have good things about the Goodyears. I have the Conti's on my E and I am not overly impressed with them. They may cost more then what you want to spend but the best tires I have owned are the Michelin PS2's.

trompazo

None of those tires will be any good at the track and will be toast in no time (Except the Falkins but the size is not good).

Why not just use the stock Pirellis? They won't be any worse than those other tires listed. I did two lapping events with them and they were marginal.

I use Hoosiers for all my timed events. A Hoosier A6 or R6 245/35 is about as wide as a 275/30 street tire.

dsb

Thanks for the info. I prefer a tire that can be used on the highway. I plan to drive to the track in the same tires. I'm not going to take a trailor or anything. Therefore, I was leaning more towards a tire like the Falkens. I dont really care for long thread life, just as long as I can safely drive it on the road without wearing them down before I get there!

Falkens would be ideal but it looks probably like the Toyo's will get my vote. The PS2's would be next before the Pirelli's but I didn't want to pay the additional cost.

Tire sizes in 235/40/18 and 255/35/18 before tax, mount and balance

Toyo T1R $579
Mich PS2 $1038

dinko

T1R's are my next tire. The price clearly shows it!

trompazo

I drive to and from the track on Hoosiers. They are fine, but you got to be careful if it rains.

slk55er

Before you buy Toyos, suggest you read Car And Driver's Tire Test at

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

They say the Toyos "never placed higher than eighth in any test, and in two dry tests, the autocross and the skidpad, the Toyo finished last, trailing the top finishers by significant margins. In some tests it felt better than it actually was performing, but overall, Geswein noted it was "soft and imprecise" and didn't "feel like a sport tire." "

I've run Bridgestone S0-3s for quite a while, but need to replace them. I've done quite a bit of research and have pretty much decided on BFGoodrich g-force T/A KDW-2 for track use and some street use at a reasonable price. (I will get 255/35x18 for the rear. I have another set of wheels and tires for street-only use.)

For ultimate traction in a DOT street tire if price is no concern, I'd go with Yoko ADVAN ADVAN Neova AD07, Bridgestone RE01R or BFG T/A KD, but you may not find these in the correct sizes. You might need to try 265/35WR18 in the rear and these are $100 a tire more than the KDW-2 BFGs and will not wear nearly as well.

Check the survey results at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

Hope this helps.

Easty

I've done several days on the ES100 YokoMama's. great tyre for the price. and a much better performer than the Pirelli. Plus quite cheap. Falkens would be great but teh correct sizes are not available. Go for Es100 with a 255 rear.

It's hard to get good feedback as generally people jump to R rated tyres way before they should. Pretty much everyone in the groups I run are on slicks. And I keep the same pace on these Yoko's and probably learning a lot more from the feedback.

One of my recent videos on track with these yoko's here

dinko

Hmm, slk55er thanks for that article. I will not be going with Toyo's. I'll stick to Michelin PS2 this time.

dsb

Yeah, that does help a great deal. Funny, I subscribe to Car and Driver and simply forgot they did a tire review. I think that puts me off the Toyo and now I'm leaning towards the KDW2. I have yet to see anything negative or positive about the KDW2, so I sort of forgot about it. However, it does 1)offer the right size and 2)perform well in the dry and 3)is a good value. I could really care less about it's noise level or wet performance. After all, this would only be used on a track.

BTW, Easty does note something interesting. I have not driven on R compounds but understand that it takes some getting use to. My understanding is that may not communicate they are losing traction like a street tire. Instead they are less progressive and you may find yourself in trouble rather quickly. Again, I haven't tried them yet, that's what I hear.

So, it's probably the KDW2 for dry performance, correct size, and value.

trompazo

The KDW2 is designed for wet performance and would not be a good choice. A KD would be much better for dry track use.

However, for the same price the new Potenza RE01R is better. The Advan Neova is better still but a bit more money.

The 265/35-18 should fit fine. I have winter tires that size that don't rub and my Hoosiers are wider than that in the rear.

Easty

I read into this a lot. I would have loved falkens rt615 but lack the SLK Size meant I went with the ES100. There pretty much unbeatable for sticky tyres that have good life on the track and are very affordable. I got 4000 miles out of the Pirelli's with 3 track events. I'm aproaching 5000 on the ES100's including 5 track events at a far faster pace and they still have life on them.

trompazo

The ES100s are definately affordable, but they are also pretty ancient technology. Then again if you are not in a timed/competitive event, then who cares. In that case, buying the cheapest tire that fits would be fine.

Easty

If its competative then you'd be silly not to be on Race slicks? and ES100 are not the cheapest tyre that fit, there the best tyre in that price bracket for track use which you can also get away with in the rain on the way home.

dsb

I went by a tire shop the other day. They had some tires they were getting rid of. I happily assisted them by taking (2) 265/35/18 tires. I wanted to try this size before purchasing them new.

Well, I'm glad I did! They make contact. Now, keep in mind I have Brabus lowering springs and OE 18" wheels for the track. These pics show 1) the car at level and 2) the car while going up my steep driveway. It makes contact. Yes, I know the track won't be the same but it may rub while taking a corner aggressively.

So, I'll stick with 255/35/18 for track use. I'll either get the RE-01 , KD, or KDW. Probably the latter to keep cost down. Just thought you should know.

slk55er

Thanks for the info. Maybe I've missed something, but unfortunately, the Tire Rack does not list the RE-01R in that size nor is that size listed on Bridgestone's site. You may need to go with 245/40x18. If you have other info, please let me know.

I've decided on the RE-01R myself rather than the KDW2s, certainly not because of traction (9.3 vs 9.5 for the RE-01R) or price ($50 less than the the RE-01R), but because of the many negative comments WRT the noise level of the KDW2s. Check the lowest survey ratings on the Tire Rack site -- some comments say they sound like tractor tires.

I may still try the 265/35s because I am not using them on the stock rims. I have the 22-spoke AMG rims (9.5 inch, rear) which have 33 mm vs 30 mm offset which should pull the tire inward a bit. (I think those are the correct numbers.)

CynCarvin32

After testing many tires at the track I say the only real choice for the track would be the Falkins. Might be a goofy name but that tire is down right amazing given its DOT legal status and its 220 treadlife rating. Grasroot motorsports did a test and the Falkins ranked better than several DOT legal R-comp tires. It beat the KD by a good margin as well.

Having seen these on several cars I can say the stick nearly as well as the DOT legal R-comp tires (aka Dunlop Super Sport Races, sport cups etc).

If you want to get a real race tire you should look at getting some Sport Cups as they are the only tire that will work in your sizes. Being that these wheels are for track use you really should go for a set or R-comp tires. They will hold up better and will not get over heated at the track after 1 session.

On a side note I would look into getting some VATH camber plates if you really plan on tracking the car. You will need more negative camber than the car currently has and VATH is the only company with plates for this application. The camber will allow you to get several days out of a set of tires. IF you really drive hard with no camber correction the tires will be gone in 1 day or less.

With these items you should have a blast.

What tracks do you frequent? If you ever come down to Willow Springs Or Cali Speedway let me know SMGC32 and I will come out for a day of tire destruction.

dsb

Yeah, I mixed up different tires. I guess you start losing track when you research umpteen different manufacturers. Like you, I have heard/read comments about tire noise. I'm not too concerned with that because these tires are just for the track.

Your wheels might be okay with a 265/35. That offset difference may be just what you need to make it work. I would recommend trying some used 265's before you spend the money on RE01's. I'm sure you could find some with your profession.

CynCarvin32,

Do you know what issue of Grassroots they did the tire test? I'd like to read it. I now might just try 245/40 in the rear. That puts me in Azenis territory. I prefer the Azenis simply because of every comment I've heard was very positive.

235/40 in front with 245/40 in rear. Maybe as long as it doesn't rub.

Does anyone know whether or not a 3.74% difference in diameter would cause ESP errors?

slk55er

Hmm. Well, my 55's front track tires (S-03s) have worn on the inside edge and when I take tire temps, the inside is always hot, requiring 40+ psi or more to yield equally high temps on the center of the tire. I still have good tread on the outer edge. I do not need more camber -- if anything, I need less. I believe that this wear on the inside may be due to the significant castor that is apparently built into front geometry which one can observe by seeing the front of the car rise as the steering wheel is turned from side to side.

I've run most of the major tracks in the US, had an SCCA Pro License, and am a certified instructor at the new Miller Motorsports Park (www.millermotorsportspark.com) near Salt Lake City, but most of my SLK track time has been at Spring Mt. in Pahrump, NV, Las Vegas Motorspeedway and the now defunct Pikes Peak International Raceway. I plan to be at Miller again in Sept 23-24 with the BMW Club and Lapping Days (www.lappingdays.com)

slk55er

I did a search via the Tire Rack's site of tires which are available in both 225/40x18 and 255/35x18 and this yielded the following:

Yoko ADVAN Sport
Bridgestone S-03 (which I've used and highly recommend)
Conti Sport Contact 2
Bridgestone RE05A RFT
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
Bridgestone RE040
Goodrich KDW2
Yoko AVS ES100

tobyslk55

so,that mean if without lower the car, 265/35/18 would fit without any rubbing?

dsb

I would guess so. It would take alot to have the 55 rear springs compress that much whereas it would rub.



CynCarvin32,
Yeah, I wouldn't want to adjust camber. I got negative camber just by lowering the car. I had it aligned but I don't think they could adjust camber without a kit. However, the MB tech said it was still within spec so I left it alone.


slk55er,
What about running 235/40 in front? Would that help reduce understeer?

slk55er

Man, I wish! I tried that (S-03s) with the 22-spoke AMG wheels that have the same offset (37 mm, as I recall) as the stock wheels but are 8.5 inch rather than 7.5 inch and it did not work. I don't believe that they would work on the stock wheels, but I have not tried that.

The problem was not when turning or cornering hard, but when driving straight over large undulations which would cause the nose to dip. The 235/40 rubbed the inner wheel well lip so I rolled the edges. But the tires still rubbed a bit there and also on the sharp projection inside the front of the wheel well which attaches the front bumper to the body. Even bending that, the tires still rubbed, so I've relegated them to the rear on the stock rims for highway travel.

You can read more and see some photos at
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r171...ires-55-a.html

and

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r171...-22-spoke.html