Proper Cooling Pump
#1
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Proper Cooling Pump
This is the pump we need for our systems ...
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump
Polished Aluminum or Anodised in black or red - in line pump. Being in line its pretty quiet as well ... up to 55 gal/min.
OK it is $400 - but it does work VERY well. It should improve things substantially even without an additonal / seperate cooling core.
The Johnson marine pump is not a long term solution in my opinion...
Rgds Steve
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump
Polished Aluminum or Anodised in black or red - in line pump. Being in line its pretty quiet as well ... up to 55 gal/min.
OK it is $400 - but it does work VERY well. It should improve things substantially even without an additonal / seperate cooling core.
The Johnson marine pump is not a long term solution in my opinion...
Rgds Steve
Last edited by stevebez; 12-08-2005 at 05:55 AM.
#2
The Johnson marine pump is not a long term solution in my opinion...
1. Routing hoses - Johnson has similar layout to Bosch which makes it easier to mount and connect hoses.
2. Johnson is rated for twice as many hours.
3. Johnson is less expensive.
#3
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Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
Yes, we have looked at this pump also. There were several shortcomings:
1. Routing hoses - Johnson has similar layout to Bosch which makes it easier to mount and connect hoses.
2. Johnson is rated for twice as many hours.
3. Johnson is less expensive.
1. Routing hoses - Johnson has similar layout to Bosch which makes it easier to mount and connect hoses.
2. Johnson is rated for twice as many hours.
3. Johnson is less expensive.
what is the flow rate of the pump you guys are discussing.
have you ever fitted a high flow pump to a C32 vadim? i assume you have one on your car correct?
factory pumps are a joke so anything is better than oem but its best to get one that will last for years. gone through 4 on 1 car and 2 on another. getting old fast!
thanks
#4
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
Yes, we have looked at this pump also. There were several shortcomings:
1. Routing hoses - Johnson has similar layout to Bosch which makes it easier to mount and connect hoses.
2. Johnson is rated for twice as many hours.
3. Johnson is less expensive.
1. Routing hoses - Johnson has similar layout to Bosch which makes it easier to mount and connect hoses.
2. Johnson is rated for twice as many hours.
3. Johnson is less expensive.
#7
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2003 E55 AMG
Guys,
Get 3 or 4 guys together and I will get you the Johnston Marine pump for $250 USD + shipping.
This is the info on the pump: http://www.taylormarine.com.au/main....tion=Chandlery
I've bought a bunch of these before for some friends, so I get really good pricing on them.
I spoke to my supplier.. He is checking stock because there is a short supply on them.
Apparently, Johnston is in the process of releasing a newer model which uses Magnetic seals or something.. Wont be ready for 6 or 7 months and I dont have pricing on the new model.
Get 3 or 4 guys together and I will get you the Johnston Marine pump for $250 USD + shipping.
This is the info on the pump: http://www.taylormarine.com.au/main....tion=Chandlery
I've bought a bunch of these before for some friends, so I get really good pricing on them.
I spoke to my supplier.. He is checking stock because there is a short supply on them.
Apparently, Johnston is in the process of releasing a newer model which uses Magnetic seals or something.. Wont be ready for 6 or 7 months and I dont have pricing on the new model.
Last edited by vrus; 07-24-2006 at 11:23 AM.
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#8
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Originally Posted by vrus
Guys,
Get 3 or 4 guys together and I will get you the Johnston Marine pump for $250 USD + shipping.
This is the info on the pump: http://www.taylormarine.com.au/main....tion=Chandlery
I've bought a bunch of these before for some friends, so I get really good pricing on them.
I spoke to my supplier.. He is checking stock because there is a short supply on them.
Apparently, Johnston is in the process of releasing a newer model which uses Magnetic seals or something.. Wont be ready for 6 or 7 months and I dont have pricing on the new model.
Get 3 or 4 guys together and I will get you the Johnston Marine pump for $250 USD + shipping.
This is the info on the pump: http://www.taylormarine.com.au/main....tion=Chandlery
I've bought a bunch of these before for some friends, so I get really good pricing on them.
I spoke to my supplier.. He is checking stock because there is a short supply on them.
Apparently, Johnston is in the process of releasing a newer model which uses Magnetic seals or something.. Wont be ready for 6 or 7 months and I dont have pricing on the new model.
#9
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I think why these fail too is becasue is says its designed for fresh water ... not sure how it will hold up with anti-freeze coollant...?
One other aspect is its opperating temp - Its opp range is -30deg C to 100deg C... Dunno how hot this coolant gets but think there is a chance it gets to 100 deg c no ?
Here is Johnson Site
http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPMarine/default.htm
Here is stock bosch pump
http://www.boschmotorsandcontrols.co...2003/index.htm
No question the johnson shifts more water.... 7200l/h vs the Bosch at ~1800l/h.
The Stewart is rated at 14250l/h and 10,000 hours lifespan.
One other aspect is its opperating temp - Its opp range is -30deg C to 100deg C... Dunno how hot this coolant gets but think there is a chance it gets to 100 deg c no ?
Here is Johnson Site
http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPMarine/default.htm
Here is stock bosch pump
http://www.boschmotorsandcontrols.co...2003/index.htm
No question the johnson shifts more water.... 7200l/h vs the Bosch at ~1800l/h.
The Stewart is rated at 14250l/h and 10,000 hours lifespan.
#10
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2003 E55 AMG
Its the exact same pump the Kleemann and Evosport use in their kits.
My first pump failed on me, but this new one has been running since last Sept I believe when I replaced it.
My first pump failed on me, but this new one has been running since last Sept I believe when I replaced it.
Originally Posted by M5KILLR
dont you have the klee pump? my johnson replacement pump from aftermarket vendor worked for about 1 month then quit. what is the failure rate of those?
#11
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living in the desert, i have no doubt my coolant temps see 100c on a daily basis. that scares me with the johnson pump. the stewart appears to be a much better pump...but what do i know.
either way, i'm in on a group buy to reduce the price if one can be put together for a pump that isn't going to fail in a short time.
either way, i'm in on a group buy to reduce the price if one can be put together for a pump that isn't going to fail in a short time.
#13
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2003 E55 AMG
Supplier called me back.. I swear I am not making this up, but, he said there are only 4 left available at the distributor.. LOL..
I guess Johnston is not making anymore of the current ones and are waiting to release the new model..
Everyone who has these pumps in their cars.. If you guys dont have a spare, its going to be hard to find them soon..
Call up your suppliers and see if they have them readily available. That should confirm whether Johnston has stopped producing them.
I guess Johnston is not making anymore of the current ones and are waiting to release the new model..
Everyone who has these pumps in their cars.. If you guys dont have a spare, its going to be hard to find them soon..
Call up your suppliers and see if they have them readily available. That should confirm whether Johnston has stopped producing them.
#14
Renntech Pump on the way
It seems that no tuners (Brabus, Kleemann, Renntech, or Evosport) have addressed the pump issue until now. Klememann and Evosport use the Johnson pumps which was not tuned and tested for our vehicles in my opinion.
Well I spoke with Renntech today and they are currently working on a pump specifically designed for our vehicles. I have the Johnson pump and as soon as the Renntech pump is available I am swapping out. Not sure on the price, but will let everyone know when I find out. Their pump should be available in a month.
Well I spoke with Renntech today and they are currently working on a pump specifically designed for our vehicles. I have the Johnson pump and as soon as the Renntech pump is available I am swapping out. Not sure on the price, but will let everyone know when I find out. Their pump should be available in a month.
#15
IIRC, the cooling pump is fed from the heat exchanger and pumps to the IC. So it should not see anywhere near 100*C temperatures. If it did, how effective do you think the IC would be? Speaking of which, having a pump with a higher flow rate is not necessarily a good thing. If you pump the cooling fluid too fast, it won't stay in the heat exchangers long enough to be effective. It might even be beneficial to plumb in a variable flow restictor valve and adjust it based on IAT. Just a thought.
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Evosport use the Johnson pumps which was not tuned and tested for our vehicles in my opinion.
Well I spoke with Renntech today and they are currently working on a pump specifically designed for our vehicles. I have the Johnson pump and as soon as the Renntech pump is available I am swapping out. Not sure on the price, but will let everyone know when I find out. Their pump should be available in a month.
Have you read this forum with regard to extra cooling?
Since you claim to have a Johnson pump on your car, what kind of data can you offer to support your opinion?
So in the end it appears to be a Renntech opinion than, not yours?
#17
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
IIRC, the cooling pump is fed from the heat exchanger and pumps to the IC. So it should not see anywhere near 100*C temperatures. If it did, how effective do you think the IC would be? Speaking of which, having a pump with a higher flow rate is not necessarily a good thing. If you pump the cooling fluid too fast, it won't stay in the heat exchangers long enough to be effective. It might even be beneficial to plumb in a variable flow restictor valve and adjust it based on IAT. Just a thought.
#18
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2003 E55 AMG
Dan,
Keep in mind that 2 completely independent tuners (Kleemann & Evosport -- and those are only the ones we know about) chose to upgrade the pump with the same Johnston marine pump.
They wouldnt have looked to replace the stock one if the flow was sufficient. Both companies saw that on the dyno a stock car would drop at least 30hp from Pull #1 to Pull #3.. There are a couple of people who got a K2 upgrade + pump that were on the dyno doing 6 or 7 back to back pulls with no drop in power.
The Johnston pump has already been proven in my opinion.
That's my $0.02...
Keep in mind that 2 completely independent tuners (Kleemann & Evosport -- and those are only the ones we know about) chose to upgrade the pump with the same Johnston marine pump.
They wouldnt have looked to replace the stock one if the flow was sufficient. Both companies saw that on the dyno a stock car would drop at least 30hp from Pull #1 to Pull #3.. There are a couple of people who got a K2 upgrade + pump that were on the dyno doing 6 or 7 back to back pulls with no drop in power.
The Johnston pump has already been proven in my opinion.
That's my $0.02...
Originally Posted by dsc
My Mercedes Tech said the same thing about flow rate. I have the updated stock pump with no problems. A verdict on flow rate would be nice but in this case if the stock is working and the high flow pump offers no improvement, why bother?
#19
Originally Posted by vrus
They wouldnt have looked to replace the stock one if the flow was sufficient. Both companies saw that on the dyno a stock car would drop at least 30hp from Pull #1 to Pull #3.. There are a couple of people who got a K2 upgrade + pump that were on the dyno doing 6 or 7 back to back pulls with no drop in power.
#20
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Interesting.. Very interesting...
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
Yes, this verifies that the flow of the Bosch pump is inadequate. But the Johnson pump has a considerably higher flow rate than the Bosch unit. If you slow that rate a little, it could potentially send cooler fluid to the IC. So not only would you still have consistency run-to-run, you would have it at a potentially higher HP level. AFAIK, no one has evaluated this. If there is room to install a valve, it would be a relatively simple install that can be evaluated with a data logger.
#21
Originally Posted by vrus
Interesting.. Very interesting...
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
http://www.thevalveshop.com/menu/man.../triacman.html
#22
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Originally Posted by vrus
Interesting.. Very interesting...
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Ok.. What part do I look for?? Do you know where I can get it?
I am willing to try the experiment. Anything for more power.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![](https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/w211-amg/86750d1153789240-proper-cooling-pump-c0900p5_1.jpg)
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
..... If you slow that rate a little, it could potentially send cooler fluid to the IC. So not only would you still have consistency run-to-run, you would have it at a potentially higher HP level. AFAIK, no one has evaluated this. If there is room to install a valve, it would be a relatively simple install that can be evaluated with a data logger.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Since the pump is 12VDC, why not adjust flow through a variable-voltage controller?
#24
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Originally Posted by ChicagoX
Since the pump is 12VDC, why not adjust flow through a variable-voltage controller?
Sure the fit is awkward but when fitted think it would be better and it seems to be a proven product ... even though it might be a bit bulky.
There is also this design we could work off to integrate the pump in the evosport intercooler mod ....?
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...egory_Code=ICS
I thought the pump had a variable speed controller but the site says its a single speed unit ...
![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
BTW: I think most of the IC issues and pump failures are due to airlocks in the system ... how many cars who have not touched their cooling circuit have had coolling issues? Of those I bet its only pump failure, not a deisgn issue.
There is also this pump which has a variable speed controller , but does not look as rugged as the stewart.
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=47
recent developemnts on this pump ...
http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/dcr/dcr000.html
Then there is this too
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=29300 number 63570 a bit down on the page ....
Cannot see the fitting and there are no specs but looks well made.
Siemens do one too but cannot find any specs ...
http://www.siemensvdo.com/products_s...ic-water-pump/
Last edited by stevebez; 07-25-2006 at 04:40 AM.
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I think most of the IC issues and pump failures are due to airlocks in the system ... how many cars who have not touched their cooling circuit have had coolling issues? Of those I bet its only pump failure, not a deisgn issue.
BTW, the same pump is used by Ford on SVT Lightings and they fail too. It is a quality problem with Bosch electric motor that drives the pump.