Confirmed: E63 is faster than E55
 

I finally got around to doing some direct testing of my stock E55 and stock E63. A buddy and I headed out in the early morning to see how these cars stacked up against each other. We did about 5 “tests” from a dead stop to about 100 miles an hour or so. This was not scientifically done. It’s a sample of 1 car each. We did not measure a quarter mile, have a timer, or any of that. Most tests were done on a straight stretch of road with a very slight downhill, then very slight uphill. I suspect this course would favor the car with less grip and more torque (the E55). The payloads of the cars were similar (fuel + driver).

In all cases, the E63 won. The most noticeable difference was at the start. Sometimes, the E63 would immediately pick up 3 car lengths over the E55. In all cases, the ESP was left on and tire spin was negligible on both cars. It’s almost as though the E63 has a better launch system than the E55. It’s probably just the better power delivery between the engine and transmission and the road. This makes me think about the video of the race in the United Arab Emirates between and E55 and E63. I thought the guy in the E55 was sleeping at the start when the E63 jumped ahead. Now, I am not sure. Maybe someone can post a link to that video. It’s the one where the E63 has to slow down for a truck.

As the cars accelerated after the starts, the gap between the E63 and E55 stayed pretty even, with the E63 possibly picking up a little more distance, but not much. Since the power figures are so similar, this is not surprising.

I did place a video camera down by the side of the road and caught the end of one test. If I can figure out how to upload it, I will. It shows the E63 about 4 car lengths ahead as it goes by the camera. Again, take this with a grain of salt. It’s a glimpse of the truth, not a precise measurement of relative speed like we will soon be getting at the track.

While it may not be intuitive that a car with less torque could be faster, the sum total of the new engine with its hp and torque combined with the new 7 speed tranny add up to a slightly faster package. I have the pleasure of personally confirming it. It’s really not surprising that AMG is delivering a car with slightly more performance than the previous car. While the stock E55 is an amazingly fast car that is hard to top, the E63 has succeeded.

For those of you who want to modify your engines, the E63 might not be for you. Keep your E55 and go for it. I am sure those cars are faster than the stock E63 in the quarter mile. For those who don’t want to modify their engines, or who want a newer version of the car, you will be very pleased with the speed of stock E63.

I am going to ask my buddy to post his comments on our “tests”, since he drove my E55 and usually had a better view of the E63, than vice versa.

Good write up. I knew the E63 would be faster, but 3 car lengths seems like an awfully big gap, especially out of the hole, doesn't it? :confused:

Great writeup!!!

Your findings are consistent with my race against the CLK63... well at the start at least. :rolf: After I gained traction on pulled from 3 cars back to 3 cars in front. :zoom: That shows how strong these E55 motors are with mods.

But like E63 said, I think stock for stock, the E63 is going to be slightly faster than the E55, because of the traction/launch and the 7sp tranny.

You would both need to switch cars during the test to see how your individual driving skills were effecting each car's performance. I have said all along the 63 will have between 2-3 10th's faster 0-60 times but it won't match for the 55's midrange thrust. An interesting test would be from 30 mph to 100...

Please perform more tests. Like someone else said, a 30-100 would be nice. Also, its a shame you guys didn't switch just to make sure it wasn't the driver. But like you said, both cars launched very well without too much tire spin. Maybe the 63 is able to get down all of its torque while with the 55 you gotta feather the throttle and let the tires hook up before you floor it?

But thanks for giving us some real results, I find these tests to be the best available because all that matters to me is what these cars can do in the streets. I wonder if the 63 outhandles the 55 too.

They played a video at AMGfest of an E63 and E55 running at the drags at Autobahn Country Club a few weeks ago. The E63 was slightly faster as well.

There won't be tire spin with ESP on. Great write up, but I don't see where you have any data to back up your claim. Glad it makes you feel better though. The 9/15 track day will settle this once and for all. Launching an E55 is an art in itself. Handing it to a buddy and having him floor it is not exactly fair. At the same time, I can see why you wouldn't want to let the guy drive your new E63.

Do you remember any times? Thx.

Good write up. I am still skeptical as the 9/15 track day will CONFIRM the findings once and for all. I must see it with my own eyes! :v:

not trying to beat a dead horse but i have to ask...has your '03 e55 had the recall flash?

Ouch! Did someone put on their cranky pants this morning?

My only claim is that I am testing these cars as honestly as I can, to provide feedback to this forum that is lacking anywhere else. You can choose to believe me or not. You can ignore my tests because they lack "data" or equal driver experience.

It really doesn't matter. As I said (and you repeated), the testing at track is the real objective measure of these cars. In the spirit of discovery, I have offered my car to the dragstrip alter so that the truth can be learned on 9/15.

3 car lengths off the line? Was the E55's starting position situated on an oil slick? Otherwise that doesn't sound right at all.

Cool...thanks so much for the info.

You've all heard me rant and rave about not getting this sooner from AMG, but it's good to finally confirm it.

Congrats to all you E63 guys! Now go out and get us some kill stories.

Once again, I admit this was a less than perfect test of the two cars, but they did have equal traction...no oil slick.

Its possible that my brain not remembering accurately, or that my buddy did not launch it at the same time I did on a specific run. What I want to pass on to the group is another instance of the phenomenon that was seen both in the UAE video and by others who have raced 63's. The 63's seem to do a better job of hooking up at the beginning, on average, than the older cars.

I am not sure. If this was a factory recall, my dealer did it. I never had any problems or symptoms.

Heat soak could have been a factor to. How long did you wait between runs and what was the weather like?

E55 is a heck of a car to launch, but once you figure it out it's all smiles.

Temperature was 65 degrees. Runs were 5 minutes apart +/-.

Not be be argumentative, but I think that these cars (with ESP on) are easy to launch, compared to most other similar performance cars.

Very nice, I guess with the less torquey engine, there's more useable power be put to the ground and the super close ratio gearbox helps.

if you can confirm that your e55 still spins the tires to no end with esp off i won't take this any further. otherwise...

I've said this before and i'll say it again. You have to know how to launch the 55! If you got 3 cars off the launch, rest assured your friend spun the wheels. If you spin tires, you're gonna lose. The 63 is easier to launch because it doesnt have that monster torque at the low end like the 55. You cant "punch it" off th elin ein the 55, you have to ease into it. Oh well, who cares I'm gonna go for a drive :zoom:

With ESP off, I can cause my own smog alert with the E55. It runs great and has more power than the tires can handle off the line, with ESP off.

If there were a problem with my E55, I think it would be way farther behind the E63 than it was.

Having said that, I know its a sample of 1 vs a sample of 1. Anything is possible. Fortunately, we dont have long to wait for confirming (or conflicting) evidence at the track.

I believe that a stock E63 is slightly quicker than a stock E55, as indicated by Mercedes's own figures. I chose to buy one of the last E55s because I intended to modify it. My Kleemann K1 feels quicker than a stock E63 that I drove, but if I were not going to modify my car, I would choose an E63.

Not just this morning. I'm always that way. Nothing against you and I do belive all you say. It looks like we disagree on the "skill" needed to launch an E55 vs an E63. I completely disagree with your comment that they are easy. Assuming you have 265 street tires in the rear, MY opinion is that the E55 is a very touchy beast on launch. Enjoy the track day and we shall see.

Yeh Chappy, I was sitting across from you down 2 when they played this video at AMG Fest and remember what Rob Allen said to everyone. In that run the E55 got a bad start and that several other runs proved that the E55 was a little faster down the quarter mile. Thats what I heard Rob say.

Launch seems to be the devil in getting the best time for the E55. Once an LSD is in an E55, stock for stock on the motor, I believe the E55 should definitely beat the E63.

I could be wrong. Maybe I am missing something on the launch. I dont think so...but its possible, since I do not spend a lot of time racing other cars or going to the dragstrip. There may be a faster way to launch the car with the ESP on (or off).

"Peace out", my fellow E-Brutha!

I think that launching an E55 is tricky and takes practice at the dragstrip, so you get quantifiable feedback (your 60' and 330' times) on how you are doing.

It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.

One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?

It is obvious I am in the minority on the easy/hard to launch debate. I choose to blindly continue to believe I am right, and the rest of you are wrong. :)

My buddy has not raced my E55 at the strip.

It's an ART to launch the E55 properly, NOT everyone can master this technique, however, once you do, it will plant BIG SMILES on your face off the line. :v:

:D

Have you taken your E55 to the strip? That will tell us if you can launch the car :)

Haha!! I like you. Nuff said. He made his claim. All we can do is wait and see. The rest is simply symantics.

Yup, I remember that. Dont you remember the kid drivin the E55 sayin, "COME ON! BEAT HIMMMMM!!!!" haha. He had plenty of wheel spin too.

Look, bottom line is that no one is making any claims. An E55 went up against an E63 and for whatever reason the E63 pulled hard and won. Its simply an observation. We have no numbers to deal with so nobodys going to make an E55 vs. E63 decision based on it. He ran the cars, he had some fun, we argued. Still wish I coulda seen it, though :naughty:

I like the write up and the test... if anything, you've showed the E63 at WORST is as fast, and probaby easier to launch.

And the guys that are talking about the launch mean that even with ESP on, its a tricky launch. If you merely lay into it, you engage the ESP... which perpetually fights back with the orange light while you start to move and jerk, as it seeks traction. That is a huge waste of time... and THAT is the talent part. Even when launching with ESP on, you can get entirely different results based on how you move in to the throttle... I think that's what Jangy meant.... he's not that grumpy today.

But yes, floor an E55 and its easy to launch... but not always the fastest way to launch. The E63 sounds like the higher power band really helps with traction, easing into it (if you can say that about either of these cars).

I think Drag Day will be very interesting. For example, I'm very curious about an E63 with ESP off AND my drag radials versus an E55 with ESP off and drag radials. That will be the great equalizer... traction and no ESP. If you're fine with it, I'll have the drag radials ready to go for you as well. This is a fact finding mission... we want to run the table on possible options and settings to really nail down what works, what doesn't, where the strengths are and are not. There are no losers in the E55-E63 realm.

This is fun people!!!!

hahaha... I think I should get a spirit of discovery nod for paying for your spot! Notice how everyone is scrambling to test the E63 versus E55 before Drag Day? Its getting hot and crazy as the big day draws near. Don't forget, we have M5 versus E63.... and M6... and E55K2s... this will be GREAT.

:)

Loren

:) They had different trap speeds IIRC. The E55 driver was reported as being a novice driver....I suppose we'll have to 'settle' this at the track.

DerekFSU....there should be some fresh E55 'meat' in Atlanta in the coming months. We're planning another meet, but the date is not yet firm (should know in a day or two).

Nodding profusely in direction of Loren

I think all the testing sounds great. I will need to check it all out when I get there to confirm what I am going to do to the car.

I agree. I got beaten once by an Audi A6 3.0 DIESEL Quatro, which only revs to 4000RPM.... you guessed it, by 3 car lengths, until I regained my grip.
I never regained my dignity:(

What technique would require a driver swap? You mash the pedal at go. That's it right?

you are a tool and annoying
 

I know most will not agree but give it up. You want to believe the 55 is faster but it is not. This is a real world test, the kind you want to run on the street but have not been able to. AMG would not out out a slower car, 55 is great to MOD (well again an assumption as all the negative banter is from 55 owners) hopefully that keeps you happy.

If only it were that easy :rolleyes: .

Was that a 2001 E55 you were racing? On the east coast Derek's E63 was a disappointment.

LOL, I'm a tool? Stay posted and enjoy the results. Please don't speak for me, since I've done my "real world" comparisons. Just because I don't jump up and down on here with every kill doesn't mean a thing. Maybe people should be a little more open about posting when they get spanked by the Jangydoolittle instead??
If you really thhink I need to rationalize my '06 E55, then you simply don't know me. If the E63 was supposed to be faster, then I would have held on to the '05 E55 for a few more months and gotten one. That simple. MBUSA marketing can claim any HP or 0-60 times they want, but why don't you take the time to talk to ANYONE at AMG and see? If that isn't enough for you, ask Tommy Kendall who has put plenty of miles on both.

Tool, psht. Why you gotta make it personal? You are lucky the mods are looking to ban me or I'd be inclined to defend myself.

Lucky Friend
 

I was the lucky guy to drive my buddy’s E55 this morning. That was a blast! I’m still smiling from that thrill ride. I had so much fun that I was stupid enough to tell my wife. Look’s like I’ll be sleeping here in the office tonight.
Anyways…
First, I agree with the guy who said we should swap cars and make sure it’s not the driver. I’m free tomorrow at 4am if you would like to do this E63AMG?
The sad part was I had the best view, from behind. I even cheated once. We used the 1,2,3,go count. We both discussed prior to racing that the GO was when you put your foot into it. We even realized that the cell phone had a slight delay, so we opted for hand signals. This seemed to be fair. All the starts seemed to have both cars jumping at the same time. The only thing was the E63 launched MUCH faster than the E55. From 2-3 car lengths at say 0-40 MPH. This was a consistent event. The tires never spun out on either car that I could tell. The ESP was left on to prevent this. Say from 40-80 MPH the E55 may have closed the gap by say ¼ to ½ car length. Then from 80-100 MPH the E63 pulled away again. I think this was about the time I felt the E55 shifting gears. Again realize that I’m trying to be as fair as possible to help you guys out. This IS what happened this morning as best I can remember. I honestly feel that since both tires were the same, on the same street, with more HP that both cars needed to burn out. It’s has to be which ESP is better on that initial start (unless one car is heaver than the other?). I got to give it to the E63. Every race was consistent with my above description with “these given circumstances.”
Now what about that driver swap for tomorrow A.M.?

P.S. I have raced a high speed NHRA dragster (had to take a class) at the Pomona ¼ mile drag strip in the late 90’s. It wasn’t a big deal, but they did teach you how to launch dragster. If that gives me any credibility or not?

Say WORD son!
 

In my book you have MAD CREDIBILITY!! Thanks, case closed!

LOL

Oh my god! you guys are sooo biased, I am 100% sure if it was the opposite " E55 infront of E63" everyone would have agreed lol since most are E55 owners!!

Haven't driven a 63 yet and am trying to be unbiased in terms of the better performer stock.

What I don't understand is how a 63 can be quicker off the line than a 55, if neither car spins the wheels ? Weight is basically the same and the 55 has a good bit more power/torque at lower RPMs. The 63 has the extra horsepower but only at the top of the RPM range. The gear ratios are probably different but not enough to give the 63 a bit head start. I sure would think a 55 starting off a few car lengths behind must be related to traction loss.

One of the reasons I bring this up is that I'm having a real hard time getting a good launch in my 55 (with Renntech mods) even with the traction control on -- see my other post. From a stop I either have to ease the throttle open or leave some of my Pirelli rubber on the road and door panels, either way I loose time and usually start off drags behind. Of course once I get grip and let her rip, I catch up fast ! And the acceleration I really care about, from 30-70mph, is just plain nuts.

Shorter first gear, 2.82 diff, smarter ESP software, B/Stone RE050A's instead of Conti's and a more launch friendly power band.... I think this can easily add up to quicker launch no?

On a strip it may be different I think as the advantage will go to the E55 as it will be the one gaining most advantage in terms of grip - so at the strip I think the results will be much closer.

The other thing about the new 7 speed box being close ratio is just not true - the gearing spacing looks attrocious to me its basically a 5 speed with 2 overdrive ratios ... I just dont get what they were thinking here ... But then again what do I know. :rolleyes:

Congrats to the E63 though - nice road kill!

E63 1 ( not sure how many times you ran them ?)
E55 0

With all this talk going on and seeing how low of a trap derek ran I have a hard time believing your E55 was healthy. And then the SLK kills a E63. So something isnt adding up

Was the Ic pump working ok?
Recalls?

:bump:

lol...as if there wasn't enough **** disturbing going on around here.

Yep time for another M5board invasion.
:rolf:

Real world results
 

E63 1/4 mile times, I mean real times not factored! = 12.50's

E55 1/4 mile times, Real times (stock) range from 12.4 to 11.9 check out previous time slips

Case Closed! Enjoy your rides both E55's and E63's:slap:

Not really...

You race Bluemax with your E55 and beat him by the margin you posted then it will be "real world"

Didn't one E63 run a 12.4x once? :nix:

:v:

Thanks for the writeup! I would recommend a video (from in the car) next time though. In most cases on this forum seeing is believing. Although, the diehards will come up with an excuse even if there is a video :)

I hate to say it but this reminds me of the E55 vs M6 debate. The only videos out there show M6's beating E55's, yet on this forum (and dragtimes) everyone claims that the E55 is faster. Maybe the E is faster over here in the USA but I would LOVE to see a video that shows it!

I would like to direct you to two videos that I made between my E55 and my friend's (Antero's) E63. These videos capture roughly 40-110 or so runs. In the second video the E63 paddles down to 3rd gear to avoid the time for kickdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YaHyBnf7P8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLLsK...elated&search=

Edit: I am not refuting your claims but just showing that from 40-110 or so we had different results.

yes once....and there a "couple" of these 63's that already have ECU tuning and arent being forthright:naughty:

Will be up against an E63 in the UK Vmax event on Saturday ... will see how an ASP E55 does against it over 2 miles from a dig...

Very sad.:)

Two miles:eek:
That will be interesting, I trust your limiter is disabled.

I hate to say this...you sound like one of gusav's chronies. there IS video evidence supporting e's over m's, you just have to be honest enough to acknowledge it.

:eek: NO, I am not.

To me whether an e55 or e63 or m6 is faster by 0.2 sec in the quarter mile is not really important to me, they are all GREAT cars. I just like seeing the videos so I decided to make some of my own. I use this forum to gain knowledge and possibly make some friends along the way.

I happen to own an E55 and I would love to see a video of a stock E55 beating a stock M6. If there is one, I apologize. Please direct me to that video or videos. I posted videos of my E55 beating an E63 and others still argue that the 63 is faster. Maybe in some cases it is, all I was saying was lets see some video evidence. The video evidence of a stock E55 beating a stock M6 here in the USA to my knowledge does not exist. That is how the situations are similar. Who knows, maybe I have missed something in my searches, so please post the links.


Thanks!

i know you're not but there have been a couple of videos posted that were hard to miss if you spend any time in the w211 amg forum. the m board refuses to acknowledge these vids even though they've been posted on their forum partly because they get moved to off topic forums to limit exposure. jidex posted vids of sleeperx spanking a modified m5 from a roll and i saw another vid of a stock e pulling a stock m somewhere on the net.

i wish i could have made videos of my car abusing my buddies m5...but he sold it very shortly after our first play day. :naughty:

Sorry this is :topic:

we have included the two most debated points on this forum in one thread!! :rolf:


Yes I have seen Jidex's videos and they were awesome. However, I was talking stock vs stock. That is what I haven't seen.

I think you forgot to tell us this E63 only has 700 miles on the clock. Lets see after it has 3k or more. The results will be refreshing..

Come out to Speed World or Firebird. I think i can change your mind about the E63. Let me know :naughty:



Robert

Not me. :nix:

Bottom line is I have 10 videos showing the 63 beating the 55, it happens, difference is negligible stock for stock...Thats why talking makes no sense. You guys go ahead and race, and yes racing a brand new 63 is like racing a 55 with a bad pump..

Ok, let's see the vids!

+1.

Wheres the 10 vids?

So the E63's hold back power until a certain mileage is reached?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Hold on, whilst I be running to the sto for some :popcorn:.

I needs me thee 6.3 edumacation two.:y The AMG engine guys didn't sell me on the piece, maybe you 6.3 owners will:bow:. Till then, I'll hold on to my 55's.:zoom:

yes , car will be similar to the M5 in the fact that the mid mileage cars are faster than when new. I am 100% convinced the 63 out of the box is a full second slower than a 63 with 15k on the clock. Car refuses to go WOT, shift points are silly. You have seen all my drag racing vids. Not worth reposting them is it?

JUICE IS RIGHT, The 63 engine is completly different once it reaches 2500-3000 miles. Me and a few other members here noticed it. Anyway heres a few vids of me racing a cls55 on the ****iest track on earth. Were both relatively new to the track. The 63 is in blk.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4VHCCXxNv8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WmGOCXjHV18

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eIPocAgY4Ec

A 8500 mile E63 was beaten by SL55 from 10mph roll to +- 110/120 by 2-3 lengths and looked to be falling back further. Was close but the SL55 was bone stock and the 63 well run in ... This was on a run when both cars took off evenly.

The best the 63 could do was hold against the SL55 if the E63 got a jump at the start ...

There is one very important thing we miss here ... for example a 0.3 of second jump at 10mph roll is maybe 1-1.5 metres jump but translates into ~3 car lengths at 110mph ... so while it might look like a massive gap the high speed makes the delta look massive when in fact they are very tiny time wise.

I didn't leave anything out intentionally. Antero and I will set up more runs when he has more miles on his ride.


Thanks for sharing!! I think I have seen those before just from searching on youtube, not from an mbworld link. I didn't know which car was which. I am assuming, now, that the white car is the 55. Just curious why didn't he do a burnout as well? Also, why didn't the camera man capture both results instead of just one of the cars #s? Thanks for the vids though!!

This result would be expected. the SL should pull .2-.3 from 10-70 and hold the lead till around 115, the 63 hits max power in 4th gear between 130-145. A roll from 70-150 would put the 63 in front , Im sure you will see this at your upcoming event. Cars are close so the race parameters are critical in noting.

Burnout was not helping traction. Sorry the video does not capture everything. It certainly demonstrates one thing..Black cars are always faster than White ones, LOL

Like I said before, We're both amateurs on the track and Im sure my 20 inch rims say it all:D
As for the camera man, I dnt know wat he was smokin':nix: but In all honesty, That wht 55 got beat so many times that day(about 10 times) by me, That I dont think anyone on the track including my camera man cared anymore.:zoom:

LOL +1000

Here is another.

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...t=Video076.flv

Thanks for the Info guys! :y

Silver cars are always faster than black cars though, why do you think the Mercedes F1 Pace Cars are silver :X

Don't forget they all take out the charcoal filters but still claim to be 'stock' If it really gives 20hp as they say, then an E55 with a 80mm TB or just a pulley should be 'stock' to yes?

You're forgetting that the SL55 is heavier and slower than an E55 though. Getting beat by an SL55 is not a good sign.

NHRA does not consider filter change or removal a modification to the engine. LOL, nice try

But for the purposes of comparing STOCK cars they are mods. Anything done to the car, other than maintenance, is a mod - filter(s), TB, airbox mods, ECU tuning, etc.

josh u didnt just say that did u...shaking finger at u

You guys are getting a little out of hand here.:rolleyes:

Whats the hubbub bub?
 

Confirmed: E63 is faster than E550

Gustav do you believe this?

Euro models dont come with a charcoal filter/ Its only done for u.s. emissions purposes. Its not really that big of a deal either

Did you see 10 vids last night? I may have missed them, what with all the fireworks and all.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

There are only 7 posted but we have more.......Fact is My modded 63(filters removed, floor mats, ash trays, no spare tire) HAS NEVER LOST TO A 55 . I have raced several in the E and CLS form as well as an SL . Guess the ash tray removal makes the difference, oh yeah, NO CHANGE. The difference is minute, negligible, tiny,moot,not worth debating. Cars are = race is determined by Gustav err I mean driver. IRWINDALE tonight, come out and see , I believe and so will you

According to Edmunds not even that is a true statement

My one and only run so far had the filters in place. :naughty: Juice make us proud..:zoom: :X: v: :y :D.




Robert

hillarious Josh:rolf: who knew u had jokes

What are you waiting for, go race juicee and show him what's up. If I owned a stock 55 in the west coast it would be on like Donkey Kong. The only logical reason for his victories must be that Juicee has raced the slowest 55's in the country.:rolleyes:. Dam west coast 55's making all of us look bad.

55 for life. :y

LOL- just trying to add a little more fuel to the fire.:v:

Bring It
 

Even though us 63 guys are a minority on this forum. We did provide more than a few vids of 63s beating the all mighty 55s yet you guys manage to bring out excuses like his car is slow or he didn't take his ash tray out or he wasn't wearing his lucky pink underwear or Whatever. Aside from all the gibberish I will race any stock 55 out here in socal (PREFERRABLY a CLS since the E-class is lighter)somewhere on the 101 by sfv. 30-100 and 60-140. This is in no way meant to disrespect any members here but to simply prove the superiority of the two for better or worse.:zoom:

Are you serious? You guys have posted a few vids of the same lame a$$ CLS55 getting beat over and over. That white car would have been beat by my wifes Navigator. The other car had the steering wheel on the wrong side so who knows with that guy. It was probably a suicide bomber trying to go unnoticed.:rolf: All joking aside, have you guys not been looking at the track times for these cars? You don't have 1 car that has posted a time that will beat the average E55. I've seen plenty of E55's run like *****. I have a video of guys running my car turning 11.9's in it on the same day I ran 11.3's.

Some people love fast cars but they just can't drive. It's simple, if the 63's were faster, we would have seen at least one turn a good number by now wouldn't we? I love the cars but they just aren't as fast. Don't get me the BS about the mileage either. Most of you guys have more than 3k miles on your cars. You can settle this real easy, send some of your best E63's to MIR on 10/8 for the big track day. I'm sure they'll have plenty of stock E55's for you guys to prove your point on.:y

Man, we are starting to beat this to death almost as bad as the M5 vs E55 debate. :D FWIW I still love the 63's even though they are a bit slower.:v:

Yes Lord Vader!

Juicee,my mentor has spoken! You must be put down now! :rolf:

I would be curious to hear the results from a roll...say 20mph-100mph or so. This is definately surprising given the fact that the 63 gives up ~40ft/lbs of torque.....Good for MB though.....I love to see progress and improvements in the engineering. :-)

I know this is what you were really thinking.

It's about time you chimed in.:D

I actually had that typed in but I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I know how sensitive you can be.:rolf: You know I'm just jealous that your car traps higher than mine.

Okay, so you're five car lengths ahead of me but I'm travelling at 1.3 mile/hour faster............................and you're jealous of what????

Albert, you're 10 car lengths ahead, so you do not count.

We simply do not have any 63's participating @MIR or ATCO or any other quality East Coast venue. The 55's in the west have also failed to run any sub 12.4 so therefore by your logic the West Coast 55's are also slower?


The car gets faster just like the M6, power plant much more susceptible to bad air than the 55. The 63 can be as* slow but it can also jump you as if you were walking around post Katrina. That 55 was on the same playing feild and it could not come close to the 63's.


what happened here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iWD7x9qOPA

Actually, I have one confirmed E63 and one maybe going to MIR on 10/8. There will also be stock and modded E55's there. This should give us some insight :y We'll even have them line up side by side :zoom:

I thought 05venom ran his 63 at ATCO. :smash: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Juicee,

Great I am still hoping to attend. Hopefully I am not creating a lynch mob for the step children. I guess I will just have to take down my second rocket. Here was the first:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzx5za51lqc

No, Xabo is a friend of mine and there will be no animosity towards 63 drivers at the track lol. He has run at MIR before

:p:

Mr. Venom is in training and likely will be ready soon. I think he has been 2x in his new 63. Venom still has his filters in(nother .1) Xabo has been 1x and also ran a 12.5@115...Neither in Magic Mode, it will help em by .3 and drag rads will help .2....

All 63 runners this video will show you the #1 secret of your power plant

:yhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3D1yvH9T98

i've got a 55 with plenty of data logging session and 1/4mile runs that would make it quite difficult for you to prove that statment.

The 55 is as you are aware hosting a super charger. While it is effected as all cars are it is less effected by bad air than the N/A motor. All the 63 has is air and fuel if either is bad you may as well be racing Maxima's. The 55 while bad air and altitude can cripple her can make it up better via forced induction. This is whay the NHRA correction factors for S/C engines are .5 of the standard correction for N/A motor.

i knew you were going to say that and in principle i'd agree with you but you obviously don't understand the shortcomings of our i/c systems, the resulting iat's, and havoc it then plays with our ecu's.

I do the modded 55 I raced 3x had several issues...I know there are a ton of things to factor. You know your car and I respect that. The 55 motor has more of a HEAT problem but the bad air kills the 63 equally and since there is no way to get more good air, oxygen into the engine it simply cannot produce power.

You know 1 million times more than I do about engines so, I retract my post ,and thanks for somewhat agreeing a tincy bit

I don't know that much and there's definitely no need to retract anything because in principle you are absolutely correct. unfortunately someone stuck an ecu in the mix and now common sense and logic don't necessarily apply (kind of like preloading to launch).

I agree with you 100% . Fricken ECU , the other day I put on cologne , the car shutters and the little Nav babe says, "seeing someone special?" Next thing I know my shift points are all screwy and the car is going full throttle w/o shifting. It was an angry ECU. I stopped reset her and reassured her , "I love you baby" All is seemingly normal

BLAH BLAH BLAH and more BLAH
 

ANYWAY, I posted to see if there was any stock 55 on the west coast willing to go head up with an inferior 63 and all I got was more excuses and bickering.:slap:. I guess that says it all:rolf::rolf::rolf:

No bickering bro, just jokes. I think it's funny how we can all debate this to death. The bottom line is, you'll have 55's beat 63's in side by side racing and you'll have 63's beat 55's. The car's are pretty close so a driver can make the difference. :y

Juicee, you'll like this one. I think your 63 is close and the videos you've posted show that. I just don't think it's faster or as fast as the 55's. I agree that it's not as slow as most think but you do have a bit of an uphill battle. You don't have one car that is faster than the average 55. That's the problem most of us have with the 63's. We'll have a couple at our MIR event so we should be able to have a 63 down in the 12.2 range or even in the teens?

From everything I have calculated, the 55 best sub 12 times likely will not crumble anytime soon. It will take perfect air and a highly experienced 63 driver. The car should be capable of 12.1-12.2@118.**. I would look for it to out trap the 55 but IMO the 1/8th and 1/4 mile runs , a 55 with traction is .1 to .2 faster but trap speed should go to the 63. The best comparison I have is with SISWATI's CLS 55

Edit..The 1/4 mile race really is the 55's race. As with the M5 the 63 is at max power in 4th gear after the end of the 1/4 mile run . Cars still will be glued down the track. Although Siswati destroyed the 63 he raced, I destroyed the 55 I raced. His timeslips and car look like mirror images to mine

Our cars identical cept the engine

His best run shows lower ET 12.509 vs 12.64
But the cars are so close all the way down the slip.
For those who cannot read


The one to look at is Siswati #3 12.65 cars performed IDENTICAL. Slight edge to Siswati's 55 but really as close as a race could get between two cars with different engines. trap speed 63=111.815 trap speed CLS55=111.82

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...25-combo-b.jpg


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...og/SAC0607.jpg

Show me a western USA timeslip @12.4 ? Good luck there are none. Western US E55's run 12.4-12.7 just like west coast 63's absolutely no difference at all. Cars are = end of story.

The East Coast will produce some quality 63 runs maybe not as fast AS THE BEST 55 run but at least as fast as most 55's.


Why is it so hard to believe the 63 is EQUALLY AS FAST?

Juicee my son,

You are addicted to drag racing! You need to get help ASAP! Driving all the way to SAC for an afternoon run is getting crazy! Let it go my friend.:D

LOL, I know..

Hey man thanks for inviting me to the BBQ.

COME WITH ME..

Leaving in T minus 15 minutes.. The AIR in Sac @ 9:50p.m is gonna be under 1000 DA likely around 600 ft WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO

Sounds like fun,but Im down with a back injury right now.I really want to go but I doubt my back would make the trip without bothering me badly.

Have fun.

there are plenty of stock 55's that run 12.1-12.4 here in az when we have good da of under 2500' (lol, it's amazing what we consider good da out here! :crazy:).

I was just going by the drag times, i could not find , well , i could not find a time slip under 12.4,posted, although there is one from az 12.0 but no timeslip just the claim. If you have seen it and know they are stock, I believe ya..just the people running are failing to post slips?

yah the DA sucks right now @lacr its 5000 plus LOL, thats why Im heading North..so if stock 55's run 12.1-12.4 all day in the western usa , they are faster than the 63's. fastest i have seen a 63 go is the 12.4, and all 55's I have seen at Sacramento 12.4-12.7...same day same track. Maybe somebody will show tonight.

juicee...you are the man! i can't believe you're heading up to sac again tonight. :bow:

yeah, even with lacr at 5000' da, it's still better than we're seeing. at least our track prep is a tiny bit better than lacr...but then my driveway is prepped better than lacr.

LOL!!! AFter today!!!

What.....all the pieces fall into place now?

:confused:

:confused::confused::confused:
Did juciee go to the track?
:nix::nix::nix:
Is juciee still #1 ranked CLS 63 and #2 63 on earth "corrected"?

Yep, learned alot, and had a good time but likely will post slips and experience in a new thread as the title of this thread seems to have brought out the worst in all of us. No other Benzes showed up due to such short notice and the 777 date did not help me enough

And the #1 ranking is UNCORRECTED and remains :y

So peaceful today, Lets dust off this beauty and run it again.

:popcorn:

Who cares.

They'll both be history when the new FI motors arrive and with an improved MCT.

I will enjoy 4 more years of my 55K then 5.5TT ...

LOL.... you revived a 4 year old thread to spice things up.... I like it :D

Fess up, we all know the E63 is faster........................when an E55K is pushing the bumper!:zoom::D:p:

Awesome Yacht Master!!

Amazing. We should do a sticky and link all the 63 vs 55 debates, lol.

soon it will be the 55tt vs the 63 vs the 55k LOL woohooooooooooo

LOL.... don't forget the V12 twin turbo :naughty:

I wish I can find me a W212 in the NY area.

IS THERE ANY1 THAT KNOWS OF A W212 63 THAT WOULD LIKE TO RUN A STOCK 55. I WILL BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO DRIVE OUT TO THE 63.......

:stick::argue::discus::cheers:

Interesting stuff. E63 seems a little more plush and pretty with the 55 more mod potential. Both are beautiful cars.

:y

Agree, both fantastic machines with unique strengths.

A 63/55 both stock is as close as it gets. I raced a forum member that has a w211 E63 and posted vids which many have seen. There is no 2-3 car length distance between these cars if both cars are running properly with experienced and good drivers.

Bottom line all great cars but are overall very close in performance and none of them should be beating each other more then 1-1.5 car lengths. Its def a drivers race.

If anyonw knows someone who is willing to run the 212 63 vs a stock 55 just for a friendly fun enthusiast purpose please let me know !! :).

You just said a mouthful!

Ok, so I am a little relieved now I guess.

Had acquired a used/CPO 08 E63 to replace the E55 I had that was totaled on 12/1/2009 and first time out, my best was 12.916 - no mods. Not bad, but took three runds to get there.

This time out, I had the dealter reflash the ECU, did the $170.00 BG injector clean, added 5 gallons of 104 octane race gas, removed the charcoal filters and started in Sport mode, but clicked down to 1st. Seemed to do the trick, I ran a 12.654 @ 112.25 MPH. Attached are the times; I am #642. The brother-in-law was 641 in an 06 E55, also stock. His first time ever down the quarter was 12.416, but so far, he's not been able to match that. I guess I am good for now. Appreciate all those who provided moral support. I think I'll do the Kleemann ECU upgrade next.

Nice runs,

This clearly demonstrates the equality of the two cars.

You both have about 4/10th's you can shave with cleaner launches.

Looks like you were leaving yer bro at the lights lol.

Hey MO , if you review the thread on page 5 in July of 2007 I made the statement we would see a stock 63 do 12.1-12.2 @118 , lol look at yer sig..

HAHAHAH

Thanks for the kind words Juicee63... Means a lot coming from you. We were just there to run the car's, did not want to get into much of a competition on cutting lights with him, so I did not hake a big deal about it. You can see on the 1st run not paying attention and cut a horrible light myself.

I am not sure I can launch any harder or faster in the E63.. Was never able to get below 2.0 on the 60 foot time. Plus, tires were not spinning. Traction Control light did not blink once on any launch. If you have any idea's, I am all ears. Best I could think was to let the car cool down for a few hours. Have not yet tried Dyno Mode either.

I drove the E55 and with the 104 octane, on one run for him, and it spun off the line like a MoFo.. I guess the blower could benefit from the better fuel...May be able to take more advance. His 55 has Pilot's, mine has some Potenza's. Just not a big fan, prefer the Conti's.

In general the 55 does 60 better. There is more tq and hp available faster.

The key to the 63 is to wake 1st gear up. Keep downshifting and drive aggressively out of first. Do the 3-4 pre blasts 0-80 or so just befor arrival. The most important thing is to light the car up from a dead stop. Practice as if the brake was made of glass and barely hold it . Dyno mode to me is critical in the 63 as the ECU will limit power as soon as wheel spin begins.

The car will get faster and faster. 100 octane is likely good enough, try keeping the overall octane rating between 93-100 unless you are tuned for 100 or more. If you run the car when the oil temp is under 80C it wil be slightly faster likely hitting 113-114 range. Try and go to the staging lanes with an oil temp lower than 63C by the time you take off it will be 80C.

Great strides man, good luck

MB dealer in UAe made an Event to try the new W212 E63 for AMG owners in Yas Marina Circuit.

they brought all 2010 AMG's.

one of my friend was in a C63 and another guys was in the new W212 E63. they did a drag race. and Stock C63 was faster @ the end but E63 was gripping better from still.

we thought it was driver errors. so the seconed race, driveres switched cars, and again the C63 starts catching the E63 from 2nd gear and past by it in mid 3rd gear.

all the cars were stock from the dealer.

so, in conclusin, if the stock C63 is faster than a stock E55 then the new W212 E63 will be faster.

BUT , if the E55 stock is faster than a stock C63, then there is no chance for the new E63.

BUT i addmit that the W212 E63 is better and easier to luanch than the E55.

however, if you have a Quaife LSD. tahts a different story.

Ive beat a E63 so, I dunno man, maybe some cars just do not have the ponies they are supposed to..or how about the new model should beat the crap out of the old model, IE W210 E55 and W211 E55..There is no debate, just that fact there is a debate makes you wonder wtf BNZ was thinking, Now the Twin Turbo E63 should just set the record straight..OR...will it? E55 is just a solid car..

Ok, Here's the Friday night action. I took a few minutes to post on YouTube.

Run #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMvWXPyPUHA

Run #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vsu3QnFb8

Sound is awesome, but video quality is so/so. You can see the launch looks pretty solid... Let me know if anyone has any thoughts/comments!

Sounds good.

That bit of chirp from the tires cost you (or the other driver) some ET. Your car has a few more ticks left in her stock, shoot for 12.50's@113-114 by training the gears to hold longer.

The shift points on the 63 from what I am hearing especially from 2nd to 3rd seem to happen too quickly? Let me know where your car is shifting (rpm). Sounds like D/S mode and TC on? This is likely slowing your ride over the 1320,

Thanks for the vids

Tom, I couldn't get below a 2.0 60' at Motorplex either, but out at Dallas Raceway I was cutting 1.9's all night (by that I mean 3 runs). You'd swear Ennis would have better prep, but maybe not...

Did u beat the 55?????????

Yes, I did on both runs (by RT), but was really only quicker on 1 tun by like .13 of a second...

Is Dallas raceway the one north of Denton on 35? I'd like to think that TMP prep would be betterbut maybe the concrete is still too cold? I've also heard that TMS set up a strip, but have not seen it yet. Would be a hell of a lot closer for me too! I'll try to check it out when I go out for the Pate Swap meet at the end of the month...

Hence the thread name

these cars are about even and driver experience is what prevails . :y

Dallas Raceway is down in Crandall, TX...down 175 southeast of Dallas. Even farther for you. Let me know when you guys have MB meets. I'd cruise over to FW.

Juciee63, was able to stomp on it today... In DS, with it manually clicked down to first, the 1-2 shift happened at 6,200 RPMs and the 2-3 **** was right at 6,900 RPM's. Seems like the 1-2 is too early, and the 2-3 may be about right.. likely mo more torque past 6,800 anyway... I am sure it flatlines after 6,500 RPMs if not sooner.

Wow,,, Crandall's a haul huh? Kennedale has been 1/8 mile for years. I know there is a strip North of Denton.. I'll look them up and see if TMS has anything. Will let you know if we get anything scared up this way!

Yep 1st gear is failing you..

Also 2nd and 3rd should be 6750-7200 , i like the 7k shift on the track.

Gotta train your first gear to hold longer which requires M or dyno