Jakpro1 Dyno and Tuning
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,266
Likes: 3
From: Texas
2005 E55
Well, that's Renntech ;-)
Seriously though, in all likelihood, as stated by Vic above, the gains are more significant on a car with additional airflow mods. In Jakpro's case, clearly he has a ton of other mods to increase airflow that were being choked off by the stock airbox. Opening up that restriction in his case allowed the other mods to operate closer to their full potential.
It would be nice to see the gains on an otherwise stock car, but there are only so many combinations of mods that these guys can test and document given limited time.
Seriously though, in all likelihood, as stated by Vic above, the gains are more significant on a car with additional airflow mods. In Jakpro's case, clearly he has a ton of other mods to increase airflow that were being choked off by the stock airbox. Opening up that restriction in his case allowed the other mods to operate closer to their full potential.
It would be nice to see the gains on an otherwise stock car, but there are only so many combinations of mods that these guys can test and document given limited time.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 9
From: NJ/Greece
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
In order to better understand the true effects these air boxes brought to jakpro's car, we would need to see the associated A/F chart as well.
My car is currently being dyno tuned and after some experimenting we noticed that when we leaned up the fuel maps we experienced a 12rwhp gain from that alone.
Although, about a year ago I did a dyno after I replaced the stock HPS air box with the AMG55 boxes I noticed a 26rwhp gain. So out of experience I can confirm that: Yes it is possible to obtain this level of power with boxes alone.
It'd still be nice to see those dynos with their appropriate A/F ratios attached.
My car is currently being dyno tuned and after some experimenting we noticed that when we leaned up the fuel maps we experienced a 12rwhp gain from that alone.
Although, about a year ago I did a dyno after I replaced the stock HPS air box with the AMG55 boxes I noticed a 26rwhp gain. So out of experience I can confirm that: Yes it is possible to obtain this level of power with boxes alone.
It'd still be nice to see those dynos with their appropriate A/F ratios attached.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,489
Likes: 96
haters crazy
In order to better understand the true effects these air boxes brought to jakpro's car, we would need to see the associated A/F chart as well.
My car is currently being dyno tuned and after some experimenting we noticed that when we leaned up the fuel maps we experienced a 12rwhp gain from that alone.
Although, about a year ago I did a dyno after I replaced the stock HPS air box with the AMG55 boxes I noticed a 26rwhp gain. So out of experience I can confirm that: Yes it is possible to obtain this level of power with boxes alone.
It'd still be nice to see those dynos with their appropriate A/F ratios attached.
My car is currently being dyno tuned and after some experimenting we noticed that when we leaned up the fuel maps we experienced a 12rwhp gain from that alone.
Although, about a year ago I did a dyno after I replaced the stock HPS air box with the AMG55 boxes I noticed a 26rwhp gain. So out of experience I can confirm that: Yes it is possible to obtain this level of power with boxes alone.
It'd still be nice to see those dynos with their appropriate A/F ratios attached.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 1
From: Moscow, Russia
E55K
I think you have a valid point here about the air box not helping a stock car. Last fall during a local track day event, I raced another E55 with a VRP air box. He was stock otherwise and I was completely stock. My car was definitely faster. I beat him twice by at least a car length, maybe more. I would think that the cars should be close in stock form and if the air box was to help, he should have beaten me.
..How come is that...Car with extra promised power from VRP AB and tube should have been faaaster
may be it had 20inch wheels or something was wrong with it...
Last edited by E55 RUSS; Feb 27, 2008 at 04:36 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 9
From: NJ/Greece
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
Besides, this is Vadim's thread and I prefer to keep to the discussed topic.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Well Alex I guess we'll be talking at the meet,beecause I'm interested in finding out if they could tune the Bosch ME 2.0 computers.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,266
Likes: 3
From: Texas
2005 E55
We did not perform a scientific test with a before and after comparison. It certainly could have helped his performance and there could have been a bigger difference without it. I am thinking that if the situation ever comes up again, we could run, swap air boxes (mine and his) and run again. That should be a fairly accurate comparison. I will say one thing about it, the quality is definitely first class. It is a thing of beauty.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 9
From: NJ/Greece
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
OK, I cant stop thinking about the HP gains. Those gains are just too big for a simple airbox swap.
The only way the VRP airboxes could add that much power is if he was running the 74mm splitter, AND THEN you guys upgraded him to the 80mm version of the VRP Boxes. Otherwise, please explain how the heck they made that big a difference, because it just doesnt make sense to me.
The only way the VRP airboxes could add that much power is if he was running the 74mm splitter, AND THEN you guys upgraded him to the 80mm version of the VRP Boxes. Otherwise, please explain how the heck they made that big a difference, because it just doesnt make sense to me.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
Tech-Tune:
Tech-Tune:
I do not understand what you are asking.
Although, about a year ago I did a dyno after I replaced the stock HPS air box with the AMG55 boxes I noticed a 26rwhp gain.
Those gains are just too big for a simple airbox swap.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I don't have half the expertise that many of you have on these issues, but I can tell you this. (not that any of you are saying contrary to this at all, but I just feel it needs to be said)
Vadim has been around for quite a long time and has proven to be a man of integrity to me time and time again. I have always been a big fan of Vadim and if Vadim says he put the airbox on the car and it made the hp claimed, I take him at his word.
We do not have much information on our motors with ported and polished heads with higher lift cams. Not sure if I was the very first to "street" ported and polished heads but I certainly was near the top of the list. I noticed and still maintain that the car ran more responsive with the mods, but when we ran the car on the dyno we noticed that she was running ultra rich and was throwing a sporatic CEL light for MAP sensor. Perhaps this is what the car was struggling with. The lack of required intake air combined with an ECU that was freaking over the amount of increased flow already coming in.
I still have a dream of opening up the Y pipe as wide as possible and plumbing an intake straight up to a cutout in the hood for near perfect cowl induction point. Just a dream right now.
Vadim has been around for quite a long time and has proven to be a man of integrity to me time and time again. I have always been a big fan of Vadim and if Vadim says he put the airbox on the car and it made the hp claimed, I take him at his word.
We do not have much information on our motors with ported and polished heads with higher lift cams. Not sure if I was the very first to "street" ported and polished heads but I certainly was near the top of the list. I noticed and still maintain that the car ran more responsive with the mods, but when we ran the car on the dyno we noticed that she was running ultra rich and was throwing a sporatic CEL light for MAP sensor. Perhaps this is what the car was struggling with. The lack of required intake air combined with an ECU that was freaking over the amount of increased flow already coming in.
I still have a dream of opening up the Y pipe as wide as possible and plumbing an intake straight up to a cutout in the hood for near perfect cowl induction point. Just a dream right now.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,649
Likes: 207
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 9
From: NJ/Greece
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
Vadim, I experienced a extra 26rwhp after my swap from stock HPS boxes to the AMG55 boxes.
To me, this gain seemed enormous.
So I later removed the AMG boxes to compare the duct openings from one box to the other. I found that the HPS boxes were 6mm thinner in diameter than AMG's at the TB port. Thus my enormous HP gain was contributed by the extra 6mm in intake diameter.
This is why I'm guessing jakpro had a 74mm splitter prior to your air box swap. Because he experienced the same increase in power as I did when I swapped boxes.
Look, the maximum amount of airflow is equal to the intake system's thinest passageway (especially when discussing forced induced systems)
So I guess what I'm asking is:
How did you get such impressive HP gains on boxes alone?
Are the intake ports on both boxes the same diameter?
Thanks.
To me, this gain seemed enormous.
So I later removed the AMG boxes to compare the duct openings from one box to the other. I found that the HPS boxes were 6mm thinner in diameter than AMG's at the TB port. Thus my enormous HP gain was contributed by the extra 6mm in intake diameter.
This is why I'm guessing jakpro had a 74mm splitter prior to your air box swap. Because he experienced the same increase in power as I did when I swapped boxes.
Look, the maximum amount of airflow is equal to the intake system's thinest passageway (especially when discussing forced induced systems)
So I guess what I'm asking is:
How did you get such impressive HP gains on boxes alone?
Are the intake ports on both boxes the same diameter?
Thanks.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 5
From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Perhaps the reason JakPro is seeing such high gains from a simple air box swap is because of his stage II heads.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Hopefully I will hold the title for highest hp 5.5, til the Hav monster emerges.
It'll be the greatest 2 1/2 weeks of my life.
That bout it Havoc? How close are we now?
**********
EDIT, Heyyyy, wait a sec. You're car is NOT gonna be a 5.5 anymore, it'll be a 5.7. WAAA WHOOOO, I'll still be the champion in the 5.5 class.
It'll be the greatest 2 1/2 weeks of my life.
That bout it Havoc? How close are we now?
**********
EDIT, Heyyyy, wait a sec. You're car is NOT gonna be a 5.5 anymore, it'll be a 5.7. WAAA WHOOOO, I'll still be the champion in the 5.5 class.
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
06 e55 wagon
I'm definitely going to be purchasing one at some point, but it would be nice to see the associated AFRs as Tech-Tune mentioned for the above chart just to see how much power was gained (if any) due to a leaning of the AFR versus elimination of airflow restrictions.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 5
From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Hopefully I will hold the title for highest hp 5.5, til the Hav monster emerges.
It'll be the greatest 2 1/2 weeks of my life.
That bout it Havoc? How close are we now?
EDIT, Heyyyy, wait a sec. You're car is NOT gonna be a 5.5 anymore, it'll be a 5.7. WAAA WHOOOO, I'll still be the champion in the 5.5 class.
It'll be the greatest 2 1/2 weeks of my life.
That bout it Havoc? How close are we now?
EDIT, Heyyyy, wait a sec. You're car is NOT gonna be a 5.5 anymore, it'll be a 5.7. WAAA WHOOOO, I'll still be the champion in the 5.5 class.
Yeah, I'll give you the 5.5 title.
I'll be in a class of my own until someone else steps up to the 5.7. But even then, Good Luck to whom ever will follow me cause Victor, Vadim, and I will not stop until we reach at least 900hp!
Last edited by Havoc; Feb 27, 2008 at 06:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
This is why I'm guessing jakpro had a 74mm splitter prior to your air box swap. Because he experienced the same increase in power as I did when I swapped boxes.
I was actually hoping for more. Stock air boxes are ok on a stock car, but once you add another 140HP, they will not have enough capacity, even with K&Ns.
Screw type blowers are very touchy to inlet restriction, they make boost right off idle, so they need all the air you can give them.
I am thinking of making a new type of intake that can feed the blower even better than CF intake. I will post more pixs once I am done.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 5
From: Sin City
2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Thanks for looking out Vadim!
..So this new type of intake will be more efficient for when the twin turbos kick in from the rear at high end...
Last edited by Havoc; Feb 28, 2008 at 02:43 AM.
