Havoc

Chilling Out..I didn't understand Marc's reasoning at first but I do understand Juicee's explaination of how the trap on the back 1/8 is off and how getting through the 1/8th at over 8 seconds would require tremendous acceleration to achieve 128 mph in 12.2.
And when Rocket ran a 11.7 with a 1.9 60' and only traped 121.5 and his 1/8 was 7.6 at 94.4 MPH, so it does seem to be excessive for this car to make up all that MPH.

Sorry for jumping the light dude, but I understand what you're saying now.

Not sure anyone knows as of yet. With those big VRP cams, one should at the least keep the stock cats in place to pass smog. I always had problems with my cars when I would install aftermarket cams and cats. And going with head work would just make it that much harder. I can try with the stock cats on my SL, but I think we already know the answer.

vrus

Ok.. I guess I'll put the cork back on the champagne bottle... What are the chances that we are using a track to try and test our stuff out and it is overstating MPH.... Geez... Can a guy catch a break or what??

I really dont get it to be honest. I am not sure how the timing equipment could be off especially if the track is an NHRA sanctioned track. All the other cars he ran were on the money..

If this is true, then his Protomotive 700 kit is only giving him 122mph traps??? No way.... and his Renntech 55 was only doing 113mph traps??? In any case, now I have no choice but to go and use a second track to get confirmation.

We've scheduled to hit Sanair this Friday if we can make it.. Monday morning first thing I am going to order the drag package and hopefully John can hook us up and get them shipped to Montreal before the weekend...

Between Lee's car and this one we'll have some data soon.

Fleebee

weather forcast looks good and I'll have my car back. I'm trying to line up a film crew for Wednesday. I'll have to run w/ps2's unless the DR's I've ordered show up before then. I'm working hard to get this together guys...

juicee63

Sorry bro,

this is difficult to show because the slip is missing data, and the numbers are out of whack with many stage 5 runs. The 60 ft is not terrible and that is partially why the numbers make little sense. Is it possible that throttle was partially closed and then it actually opened 100%? This car may trap 128 and if it does that 1/8th mile trap should be near 100 mph.

Im sure there will be a celebration, good luck, the DR's should help alot.

Ted Baldwin

..........totally agree with you. For the first time in the history of this board we have a tuner who actually tunes a car and reports back with an official time slip from an NHRA approved track. Now people are asking if the quest the time machine at the track is malfunctioning. You should consider this an incredible compliment because the results are so fantastic that people are wondering if it is for real. For me, I appreciate the fact that you lay out, out there. Even if there was or was not a problem with the time machine, what you have done in terms of transparency is orders of magnitude above what other so called tuners have. These other so called tuners should read this thread and learn. Please no more fake tuners installing parts and and pulling HP numbers out of the their asses. There was a time every other thread was some fake tuner trying to sell some nonsense without anything to back up their claims. One by one, they have fallen to the way side. The cream does indeed rise to the top. MB owners are not all idiots with deep pockets that every tom dick and harry will prey on by opening a little shed in their back yard and coming on mbworld to troll for victims and offering no verifiable results for the nonsense they are selling. Keep up the good work.

Ted

1qikctr

Insane !!!

G55K

My bad Marc. I meant to say trap speeds not ET.

chiromikey

i've seen timing equipment at more than one nhra track (infinioen and firebird) give goofy numbers on occassion so anything's possible. heck, go back to derick's original 10 second run and watch his car trip the timing lights in both lanes. wierd unexplainable things sometimes happen.

anyways, i hope ted's right...i hope we're just not used to seeing traps speeds so high that it's making a few people a bit skeptical. this is one of those cases i'm hoping my reservations are quickly proven wrong!!!

Havoc

No use Victor, the bottle is empty!
Hey, no one said it would be easy, right? No worries though, you'll catch a break.

Ted Baldwin

............As many know, I am usually a skeptic. I don't even mind in this case if the timing equipment is wrong. Vrus and co have taken car to the track and posted real numbers. If the timing equipment is wrong, then it is not their fault. The timing machine wiould have to be wrong on three separate runs. Remember that as I understand it, there were three runs.

1st pass, 12.56 @ 128.60 mph , 2.2sec 60ft
2nd pass, 12.20 @ 128.78mph, 2.1sec 60ft
3rd pass, 12.56 @ 127mph (he had a passenger in the car)




This is not anything we are used to seeing from any of our tuners. We are used to dyno's that mysteriously generate crank HP numbers from Kleemann, Renntech only takes their S600 to the track, Brabus just sells you nice looking engine cover with a Brabus logo. The car is usually no faster than stock. No other tuner has backed up their E55 mods with actual track times.

Ted

Fikse

I thought the customer took the car to the track, not the tuner........ how is this different than any other customer taking their tuned car to the track, just because the tuner reports the numbers?

I've seen renntech take a few cars the to the track, supercharged SLK55, CLS55 stage 5, etc..... I've reported my track times and dyno results after each modification as well as others here....

although the slips don't quite line up, I think the car can make those traps given the power levels and weather conditions....

Hammer Down

Not sure anyone knows as of yet. With those big VRP cams, one should at the least keep the stock cats in place to pass smog. I always had problems with my cars when I would install aftermarket cams and cats. And going with head work would just make it that much harder. I can try with the stock cats on my SL, but I think we already know the answer.[/QUOTE]

Thx Havoc

vrus

I want to make some comments about the car itself regardless of the timing equipment used. He and his friends use the same dyno with their cars and they all use Napierville Dragway for dragracing.. So we have a good idea of how this car stacks up against all the other cars in their group.

So, even if the timing equipment ends up being off, we know that comparing car to car at that same track tells me his E55 is a good 3mph faster than his Proto 996 700hp and is 13mph faster than his Renntech Stage 1 CL55.

All I want to know right now is whether or not what Marc was saying is true.

The owner of the car called all his buddies after I told him about this and asked all of them if they've ever heard this and they all said NO. I am not saying Marc is wrong, but, its the first time any of us have heard it.

He also told me that he was only 50% down on the throttle for at least the first 60ft because the car was spinning so badly. So he managed his 60ft and his 1/8mile trap not even using full throttle.

I am *hoping* with the MT DRs on the car that it will get a chance to shine and post up a good run.

------------------------------------

Thanks Ted for the kind words.. I really appreciate it. Like I've always said, I put everything out there to be scrutinized and also for valuable input.. Without live feedback from guys like you its hard to know if you are on the right track or not.

Sometimes I try something and it flops... Sometimes it works out. Trial and error is the only way you are going to learn and better yourself and your products.


I know what you mean, but those freaky things happen ONCE not 3 times in a row. The owner himself couldn't believe the slip when he first got it.. he actually thought he got someone elses slip by mistake which is why he went and did 2 more passes.

Heck, the owner of the 700hp Z06 in the video is good friends with him also and when we told him on the phone what the trap was his jaw dropped.

3 passes within 1mph of eachother would cancel out any possibilities of a fluke timing issue.. Either the timing equipment is reading too high for everything or it is working perfectly.. in this case, there can be no inbetween.

When I started talking to the owner at the very beginning of the project before he even bought the package we had laid out a plan of installation and dynos and track testing to verify everything I was saying.. I told him if the car didn't pass mustard I would give him back his money and pull everything off his car.

Remember, this is a guy who has owned, driven and raced 700+hp cars. I knew where his expectations would be.

vrus

Another thing that confuses me a little about this whole thing is you are running an E55 with Renntech stage 1 and your best run was 11.66 @ 120.41mph.

His CL55 with Renntech Stage 1 did a 12.02 @ 116mph at that same track.

If the timing equipment is an issue could there be a 7mph difference between your car and his ?? You are running in the dead heat of Florida and he is running in Montreal.. It just doesnt make sense.

All of these things are what makes it hard for me to accept the possibility of the timing equipment being off.

Rock

I know we will soon get some further confirmation about this set-up but what floors me is what a giant leap in power these trap speeds seem to indicate. Remember, all other modified E55’s generally trap at 120-123mph (including mine). A 128mph trap speed is a huge jump........ so what happened?

Look at the VRP675 package:
VRP Sport Airfilters
VRP Overdrive Crank Pulley
VRP ECU tune
VRP 80mm Throttle Body Kit
VRP Cat-back Exhaust
VRP Long Tube Headers
VRP Cooling Upgrade Kit
VRP Race Cams
VRP Carbon Airbox

This is basically comparable to a Renntech stage V or a Kleemann K4 but based on trap speeds is it making 75-100 more HP………no? The only big difference I see is the cams and ECU tune. What am I missing?

Victor, I’m not trying to bust your ***** (I promise). I truly want this stuff to work. I’m just trying to understand this significant leap.

vrus

Your car's best trap is 125.. I think the norm on the higher output cars is 123-124.

We are talking 4mph faster than your best trap and 4.7mph faster than the next highest trap.

The white E55 also had the python tubes.. We were suspecting the cams are good for +2mph to +3mph. On a stock car we've seen the airbox alone add +2mph.

I think the tune + the addition of everything else we make would account for an extra 4.5mph.

vrus

Dont forget that our headers flow alot more air than the kleemann or renntech setup..

Remember the dyno graph for Jim's car when we switched from kleemann headers to ours. It was a huge jump in power. Our longtubes leaned out Jim's car ALOT from his kleemann setup that we had to go back into the ECU and add alot more fuel to compensate. I think there was a 40hp jump in power after the header swap and retune.. (dont quote me but I know it was a big jump).

[QUOTE=Rock;2792820][COLOR=blackThis is basically comparable to a Renntech stage V or a Kleemann K4 but based on trap speeds is it making 75-100 more HP………no? The only big difference I see is the cams and ECU tune. What am I missing

Victor, I’m not trying to bust your ***** (I promise). I truly want this stuff to work. I’m just trying to understand this significant leap.[/QUOTE]

ROCKETW19

thats before on street tire 19"
I have not gone to the track yet but Im sure it will run better the back half is when my car always went slow but after the tune it just keeps on pullin like the energize bunny.

vrus

You haven't hit the track yet? I thought for sure you would be tearing up the tarmac over there ... lol..

Hey.. Can you change your Avatar now so it says VRP... hahaha

Havoc

Correct me if I'm wrong...
The difference with the VR675 kit compared to Kleemann's K4 kit is more aggressive Cams, CF Airbox and Tubes, and Longtube Headers.
The difference with the VR675 kit compared to Renntech's Stage 5 is a bigger Throttlebody, Cams, Air Tubes, and Longtube Headers.
The tune as we all know plays an important role in this as well.
The VR675 kit produces more power, but the question is; is it enough to make up all that MPH in the back 1/8th?

vrus

Actually Dave.. you bring up a good point which is what I was eluding to in my previous post to Fikse...

Fikse E55 is RT Stage 1: 11.66 @ 120.41mph.
My Friend's CL55 with RT Stage 1: 12.02 @ 116mph at Napierville.

If the timing equipment is 3mph off, that means his car trapped 113mph compared to Fikse's 120.4mph..

So, if both RT STage 1's make the same power, and Fikse is in a Humid climate, how could he be trapping 7mph more? Isnt that a 75-100hp difference in power like you are talking about?

See what I mean...

ROCKETW19

I know my friends keep goin and askin me but I seem to be doin something all the time????

You know how much they paid me to put that up? Whats your offer?

















LOL, just kidding bro.

vrus

Dave.. Sorry for the multiple posts but I keep finding new info after each post..

I did some searching and Renntech Stage 5 cars are only dynoing 480rwhp at the wheels. Look on Dragtimes.. you will find a few.

The VR675 wagon we did was 536rwhp SAE Corrected.. 551rwhp uncorrected.

That already puts our cars ahead by 56rwhp.

I believe KLeemann K4 is dynoing 500-505rwhp for those that dyno'd on a Dynojet.

So, comparing power output, I would say we are clearly ahead based on what I've seen out in the public.

chiromikey

the total mph is a huge jump and gives many of us reservations on it's own. however, when combined with a seriously slow 1/8mile and 1/4mile times you're no longer talking about only a 4mph difference in trap speeds...it's more like 10. often a slow 60' can add 1-2mph over a good launch run but his 1/8mile time doesn't reflect that he's making up that much speed. imho, even with the poor 60' times, those trap speeds should have given mid 11 second runs at the worst.

anyways, i've always hated this speculation/armchair racing stuff and can't wait for this car to get back to the track.

vrus

I'll buy the steak dinner next time I fly down, but you have to drive your *** to Orange County.


I understand.. Believe me... I want to be at a point where it is undisputable.. If its wrong I want to know.. If its not, I want everyone else to know.

Oh.. and just in case anyone is thinking it... NO.. I didnt spray the car to make those numbers.