Looking for evidence why this intake is not better than stock
06-29-2009, 06:36 PM
#26
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V12-Biturbo
think about what you're saying. the reason you used to find that debris in the bottom of your airbox is because the filters were doing their job!!!!! do you really think that new filer is that good or is it likely that now instead of staying trapped in the airbox the dust and debris is going straight into the motor?
No def not I inspected them all on daily basis 1st few weeks to make certain they were solid...I'm getting pretty tired of trying to offer my help/research/findings, carry-on w/your head in the sand, & rocks in this case... Whens the last time you chkd your airboxes? They fill up w/debris in 2-3 wks, filters on the outside does INDEED block ALL this crap from EVER entering TB's SC'r Turbo's, if it diddn't my V12 TT would've blown SKY HIGH in a week
The air-inlets on my SL feed directly into the TURBO's if they allowed ANY Sand/Rock's in them it'd be toast, I've been running this setup for MONTHS. Take my advice/research or leave it, just trying to help...Sheesh you'd think I was trying to sell Encyclopedias or something????
PS...It's not that my new Foam Cone filters are that good or better than OEM @ removing dirt/sand/rocks/ if you could mount the OEM's on the outside it'd do the same thing, except Foam Cones breathe loads better...
Last edited by Thericker; 06-29-2009 at 07:00 PM.
06-29-2009, 07:20 PM
#27
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i think i'm one of the last people around here that could be accused of having my head in the sand. you're info is appreciated but it's not a fair comparison. our airboxes and intakes are entirely different, not to mention the efficiency of our i/c systems and their ability to deal with any increase in iat's.
regardless, i'd like to see some true objective testing (on our platform).
btw, i've probably checked and/or removed my airboxes more times than you've had your hood up!
regardless, i'd like to see some true objective testing (on our platform).
btw, i've probably checked and/or removed my airboxes more times than you've had your hood up!
Last edited by chiromikey; 06-29-2009 at 07:23 PM.
06-29-2009, 08:10 PM
#28
Super Member
Vadim's setup looks trick, though it seems it was never finished and offered as a product. I don't know how he got the filters to fit up front with all the stuff in the way, not to mention the connection through the firewall. I would think a fair amount of relocation of A/C lines would be required. By far the best intake I have seen to date that sounded wicked was the ICE setup, but the company is now insolvent.
I want more than just intake tubes, as I don't want to utilize the factory filters. Here is an idea: seal off the factory tubes to the air box (after removing the stock filters) and the radiator supports and find a way to secure filters to the openings in the radiator support. Seems unconventional, though it would fix the hot air issue and would make for a noisy intake. The only issue not addressed is filter surface area to increase mass flow. Need to see what the clearance is in this area to size for the largest filter that will fit.
I want more than just intake tubes, as I don't want to utilize the factory filters. Here is an idea: seal off the factory tubes to the air box (after removing the stock filters) and the radiator supports and find a way to secure filters to the openings in the radiator support. Seems unconventional, though it would fix the hot air issue and would make for a noisy intake. The only issue not addressed is filter surface area to increase mass flow. Need to see what the clearance is in this area to size for the largest filter that will fit.
06-29-2009, 08:43 PM
#29
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V12-Biturbo
i think i'm one of the last people around here that could be accused of having my head in the sand. you're info is appreciated but it's not a fair comparison. our airboxes and intakes are entirely different, not to mention the efficiency of our i/c systems and their ability to deal with any increase in iat's.
regardless, i'd like to see some true objective testing (on our platform).
btw, i've probably checked and/or removed my airboxes more times than you've had your hood up!
regardless, i'd like to see some true objective testing (on our platform).
btw, i've probably checked and/or removed my airboxes more times than you've had your hood up!
That is true litmus test as you all agree...PS..this isn't my 1st benz or Supercharged/Turbo'd car, or 1st airbox I've played with lol...
06-29-2009, 08:51 PM
#30
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V12-Biturbo
Vadim's setup looks trick, though it seems it was never finished and offered as a product. I don't know how he got the filters to fit up front with all the stuff in the way, not to mention the connection through the firewall. I would think a fair amount of relocation of A/C lines would be required. By far the best intake I have seen to date that sounded wicked was the ICE setup, but the company is now insolvent.
I want more than just intake tubes, as I don't want to utilize the factory filters. Here is an idea: seal off the factory tubes to the air box (after removing the stock filters) and the radiator supports and find a way to secure filters to the openings in the radiator support. Seems unconventional, though it would fix the hot air issue and would make for a noisy intake. The only issue not addressed is filter surface area to increase mass flow. Need to see what the clearance is in this area to size for the largest filter that will fit.
I want more than just intake tubes, as I don't want to utilize the factory filters. Here is an idea: seal off the factory tubes to the air box (after removing the stock filters) and the radiator supports and find a way to secure filters to the openings in the radiator support. Seems unconventional, though it would fix the hot air issue and would make for a noisy intake. The only issue not addressed is filter surface area to increase mass flow. Need to see what the clearance is in this area to size for the largest filter that will fit.
06-29-2009, 09:07 PM
#31
Super Member
You think the Fang intake would work better if coated with ceramic coating inside and out? I realize this would increase the price of this setup, but its a cheaper alternative to carbon fiber.
07-01-2009, 05:48 PM
#32
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W211 E55
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Look for my results soon.
07-01-2009, 06:04 PM
#33
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V12-Biturbo
A good way to quantify the filtration qualities would be to have your oil tested.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Look for my results soon.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Look for my results soon.
Edit:Good God! if Dealerships could/can use this type of testing on our engines after ECU-TCU-CAI-exhaust etc... they'd exclude ANY/ALL modded cars, I get the oil changed every 3k miles, I'm afraid of what these tests may say
Last edited by Thericker; 07-01-2009 at 06:24 PM.
07-01-2009, 06:33 PM
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W211 E55
Excellent info for vehicle pre-purchase, if available......
07-01-2009, 11:04 PM
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2003 cl55 (sold)
think about what you're saying. the reason you used to find that debris in the bottom of your airbox is because the filters were doing their job!!!!! do you really think that new filer is that good or is it likely that now instead of staying trapped in the airbox the dust and debris is going straight into the motor?
07-01-2009, 11:37 PM
#36
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07-02-2009, 08:21 PM
#37
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V12-Biturbo
Ignorance is bliss
Why not explain to me HOW? Hooleyboy's C55 w/AMG kompressor and THIS STYLE INTAKE WORK Pictured below, ran 1/4 mile 11.75 w/1.56 60' 450 RWHP 522 RWTO it's a lil' beast power is @ stage 2 E55 levels!
Even though this is a different model car than E55, the same EXACT principles apply, it is the current big dog CL65 w/VRP825 kit makes 692 RWHP 912 RWTO 10.73 ET 1/4 mile @ 130.8 mph these intakes work when setup properly PERIOD...
Picture of kit on Jay's CL600
The filter is blocking it from ever entering the airboxes, go open your boxes & research what I've done before condemning it. The 600 TT models even have a little mesh screen between pipes blocking larger rocks, do you actually believe/think HEAVY Sand/Rocks are passing thru my Foam Cones??? No def not I inspected them all on daily basis 1st few weeks to make certain they were solid...
I'm getting pretty tired of trying to offer my help/research/findings, carry-on w/your head in the sand, & rocks in this case... Whens the last time you chkd your airboxes? They fill up w/debris in 2-3 wks, filters on the outside does INDEED block ALL this crap from EVER entering TB's SC'r Turbo's, if it diddn't my V12 TT would've blown SKY HIGH in a week The air-inlets on my SL feed directly into the TURBO's if they allowed ANY Sand/Rock's in them it'd be toast, I've been running this setup for MONTHS. Take my advice/research or leave it, just trying to help...
Sheesh you'd think I was trying to sell Encyclopedias or something????
PS...It's not that my new Foam Cone filters are that good or better than OEM @ removing dirt/sand/rocks/ if you could mount the OEM's on the outside it'd do the same thing, except Foam Cones breathe loads better...
No def not I inspected them all on daily basis 1st few weeks to make certain they were solid...I'm getting pretty tired of trying to offer my help/research/findings, carry-on w/your head in the sand, & rocks in this case... Whens the last time you chkd your airboxes? They fill up w/debris in 2-3 wks, filters on the outside does INDEED block ALL this crap from EVER entering TB's SC'r Turbo's, if it diddn't my V12 TT would've blown SKY HIGH in a week
The air-inlets on my SL feed directly into the TURBO's if they allowed ANY Sand/Rock's in them it'd be toast, I've been running this setup for MONTHS. Take my advice/research or leave it, just trying to help...Sheesh you'd think I was trying to sell Encyclopedias or something????
PS...It's not that my new Foam Cone filters are that good or better than OEM @ removing dirt/sand/rocks/ if you could mount the OEM's on the outside it'd do the same thing, except Foam Cones breathe loads better...
Here's why no gains. You've traded a flat filter for round but basically same filter area. no net advantage. You've traded colder front grille air for hot engine air, particularly air that has already passed your radiators, let alone radiant heat from engine. The air slipping in through various openings in front of car won't make up for that.The only thing you have really done is shorten the air path by maybe 8 inches in an intake path that is something like 6 ft long before it gets to the cylinder. BUT, it does look cooler!
Why not explain to me HOW? Hooleyboy's C55 w/AMG kompressor and THIS STYLE INTAKE WORK Pictured below, ran 1/4 mile 11.75 w/1.56 60' 450 RWHP 522 RWTO it's a lil' beast power is @ stage 2 E55 levels!
Even though this is a different model car than E55, the same EXACT principles apply, it is the current big dog CL65 w/VRP825 kit makes 692 RWHP 912 RWTO 10.73 ET 1/4 mile @ 130.8 mph these intakes work when setup properly PERIOD...
Picture of kit on Jay's CL600
Last edited by Thericker; 07-02-2009 at 08:57 PM.
07-02-2009, 09:14 PM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
not that it has anything to do with the power those cars are making...but those are not foam filters.
one way to find out if your foam filter is doing the job you sayit is, is to spray your empty airbox with a light coat of filter oil and see what collects over the next several weeks. the coat won't hold onto the big stuff but it will trap any fine particles IF they're present.
one way to find out if your foam filter is doing the job you sayit is, is to spray your empty airbox with a light coat of filter oil and see what collects over the next several weeks. the coat won't hold onto the big stuff but it will trap any fine particles IF they're present.
Last edited by chiromikey; 07-02-2009 at 09:33 PM.
07-02-2009, 09:39 PM
#39
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V12-Biturbo
not that it has anything to do with the power those cars are making...but those are not foam filters.
one way to find out if your foam filter is doing the job you sayit is, is to spray your empty airbox with a light coat of filter oil and see what collects over the next several weeks. the coat won't hold onto the big stuff but it will trap any fine particles IF they're present.
one way to find out if your foam filter is doing the job you sayit is, is to spray your empty airbox with a light coat of filter oil and see what collects over the next several weeks. the coat won't hold onto the big stuff but it will trap any fine particles IF they're present.
I put this intake together from some pieces I had laying around and what to get some info from those who have dyno/track tested or even runs a similar setup. I know many are concerned this intake will take in hotter air from the engine bay but once the car is moving I think the iat's will be close to stock as there will be plenty of air coming thru the grill area. I also know that this intake will definitely dyno higher than stock as most dyno their cars with the hood open.
I have alot of experiences with american v8's both N/A and FI as im sure others on here do. In almost all cases intake setups like these outperform stock setups on both the dyno and track. Im curious as to why it would be different on this car?
I have been driving around with it on my car for a couple of days and cannot notice a performance difference from stock. Could just be that the butt dyno isnt calibrated sensitively enough. With as much power as these cars make a gain of 10whp would be hard pressed to feel. The only noticable difference is the much more pronounced supercharger whine.
Any input from tuners would be much appreciated as well..Thanks
...yes the stock filters are removed...
I have alot of experiences with american v8's both N/A and FI as im sure others on here do. In almost all cases intake setups like these outperform stock setups on both the dyno and track. Im curious as to why it would be different on this car?
I have been driving around with it on my car for a couple of days and cannot notice a performance difference from stock. Could just be that the butt dyno isnt calibrated sensitively enough. With as much power as these cars make a gain of 10whp would be hard pressed to feel. The only noticable difference is the much more pronounced supercharger whine.
Any input from tuners would be much appreciated as well..Thanks
...yes the stock filters are removed...
Last edited by Thericker; 07-02-2009 at 09:51 PM.
07-02-2009, 09:50 PM
#40
Super Member
What I find impressive is that Jay's car works so well, especially given that the SLR coolers (I assume thats what they are) are sitting on top of the engine and all 4 K&Ns are inside the engine compartment of a turbocharged engine! Has anyone here honestly ever tried alcohol injection to cool the intake charge? The injector could be plummed right at the "Y" in our intake and also help cool the supercharger. They're cake to wire and you can install a switch to adjust at what boost level the alcohol is injected. Having felt how cold an intake charge with misted alcohol is, I can only imagine it would be an excellent mod for our cars and you get the cool air charge when you need it most under boost.
07-02-2009, 09:58 PM
#41
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V12-Biturbo
What I find impressive is that Jay's car works so well, especially given that the SLR coolers (I assume thats what they are) are sitting on top of the engine and all 4 K&Ns are inside the engine compartment of a turbocharged engine! Has anyone here honestly ever tried alcohol injection to cool the intake charge? The injector could be plummed right at the "Y" in our intake and also help cool the supercharger. They're cake to wire and you can install a switch to adjust at what boost level the alcohol is injected. Having felt how cold an intake charge with misted alcohol is, I can only imagine it would be an excellent mod for our cars and you get the cool air charge when you need it most under boost.
Marko's CL65 recorded those crazy Et's Traps rwhp rwto, the kit works/fits ALL 600/65 V12 Biturbo models, not SLR Intercoolers specially fab'd larger 600/65 Intercoolers
Last edited by Thericker; 07-02-2009 at 10:28 PM.
07-03-2009, 02:17 AM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
What I find impressive is that Jay's car works so well, especially given that the SLR coolers (I assume thats what they are) are sitting on top of the engine and all 4 K&Ns are inside the engine compartment of a turbocharged engine! Has anyone here honestly ever tried alcohol injection to cool the intake charge? The injector could be plummed right at the "Y" in our intake and also help cool the supercharger. They're cake to wire and you can install a switch to adjust at what boost level the alcohol is injected. Having felt how cold an intake charge with misted alcohol is, I can only imagine it would be an excellent mod for our cars and you get the cool air charge when you need it most under boost.
in theory meth injection as a chemical intercooler should work but several people have tried it with zero luck...at least when it comes to measurable performance.
07-04-2009, 10:39 AM
#43
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05 C55
i always though a pair of these would make a decent setup being fed through the existing holes in the core support. not sure if they would fit in a tight engine bay though
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm
